Persona Megathread: I Am Thou, Thou Art I

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Persona Megathread: I Am Thou, Thou Art I

Lammasu: May 8, 2019; lawful Good Monster

So, thanks to Phil Spencer I finally get to play Persona 5 and I already have questions. I saw the cafe owner doing a crossword puzzle. How do those even work with kanji?

# ? Oct 21, 2022 06:13

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# ? May 24, 2024 21:56

Tae: Oct 24, 2010; Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!

Dehry posted:

https://streamable.com/swjee2
https://streamable.com/ao10nd

Sega put a filter over the All out Attack sequence to prevent epileptic seizures.

I was wondering what that white filter was

# ? Oct 21, 2022 06:56

Scoss: Aug 17, 2015

So I noticed that I was getting some odd hitching in very crowded trainstation/school scenes, despite the fact that my CPU/GPU are at like 30% utilization and it's a dang PS3 game.

On a hunch I went into task-manager and set the P5R.exe process to have "high" processor affinity and it seems to have immediately resolved the issue.

I knew to do this because Yakuza 0 had literally the exact same problem and solution.

Game is also kind of jaggy even with the "render resolution" cranked to 200% and SMAA on, I might have to dig around in my GPU settings to force better quality.

Scoss fucked around with this message at 07:26 on Oct 21, 2022

# ? Oct 21, 2022 07:22

cheesetriangles: Jan 5, 2011

They changed the almighty icon in this version for I assume the same reason as removing the Raidou costume.

# ? Oct 21, 2022 07:32

cheesetriangles: Jan 5, 2011

Scoss posted:

So I noticed that I was getting some odd hitching in very crowded trainstation/school scenes, despite the fact that my CPU/GPU are at like 30% utilization and it's a dang PS3 game.

On a hunch I went into task-manager and set the P5R.exe process to have "high" processor affinity and it seems to have immediately resolved the issue.

I knew to do this because Yakuza 0 had literally the exact same problem and solution.

Game is also kind of jaggy even with the "render resolution" cranked to 200% and SMAA on, I might have to dig around in my GPU settings to force better quality.

If you have resolution scaling turned on in windows which is usually used for instance with a 4k screen turn it off.

# ? Oct 21, 2022 07:33

PancakeTransmission: May 27, 2007; You gotta improvise, Lisa: cloves, Tom Collins mix, frozen pie crust...; Plaster Town Cop

Pwnstar posted:

Ok Persona 5 on Steam costs double what I thought it would lmao.

I guessed as much because P5S is $100 in my currency. So I decided to just do it on gamepass for "free"

# ? Oct 21, 2022 07:42

Sydin: Oct 29, 2011; Another spring commute

drat not only does the game run buttery smooth, you can up the FPS to 120 and 2x the internal resolution. Persona's never looked or felt this good to play. :fap:

Dehry posted:

https://streamable.com/swjee2
https://streamable.com/ao10nd

Sega put a filter over the All out Attack sequence to prevent epileptic seizures.

Ah that would explain that. One other thing I've picked up early is that there's some weird distortion on Igor's lines that seems to fade in and out that I don't remember. It sounds a lot like his voice when he reveals himself as Yaldy so I can't tell if it's an intentional change or some kind of audio issue I'm getting. So far he's the only one I've heard it with.

# ? Oct 21, 2022 07:45

cheesetriangles: Jan 5, 2011

The dialogue audio quality seems like it's still bad.

# ? Oct 21, 2022 07:46

Tired Moritz: Mar 25, 2012; wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

_{_{(n o i c e)}}

Lammasu posted:

So, thanks to Phil Spencer I finally get to play Persona 5 and I already have questions. I saw the cafe owner doing a crossword puzzle. How do those even work with kanji?

Maybe it's hiragana based

# ? Oct 21, 2022 08:15

Petiso: Apr 30, 2012

NikkolasKing posted:

There's probably an argument to be made that brainwashing anyone for almost ay crime is immoral.

Which I think is the opinion the Thieves settle on in the end,, if I'm remembering right, anyway.

It didn't seem to me as brainwashing. The way the "stealing the treasures/corrupted desires" is explained, it's closer to waking them from a drunken stupor, you're not turning a bad person into a good person, they're still bad people that for the first time in years are able to see themselves and their actions with clarity once the source of their obsession has been removed. Like, if you also removed their memories of all of it, they'd act the same if they developed the same or a new obsession.

Or maybe that's what I want to believe, else it'd be way too hosed up, even for someone like Kamoshida.

# ? Oct 21, 2022 10:57

Cloacamazing!: Apr 18, 2018; Too cute to be evil

That seems to be how it works, yeah. They refer to it as distorted desires, and the cut content for the will seeds seemed to go that way. Of course from what I can tell, this would have been presented in a tone-deaf manner that makes me veeeeeery glad it was cut out. "Kamoshida felt very very sorry after the rape that happened and was going to apologize" is not a good way to tell the story of how Kamoshida learned that his fame let him do whatever he wanted with no consequences.

# ? Oct 21, 2022 11:09

Mailer: Nov 4, 2009; Have you accepted The Void as your lord and savior?

Scoss posted:

Game is also kind of jaggy even with the "render resolution" cranked to 200% and SMAA on, I might have to dig around in my GPU settings to force better quality.

It was visually offputting until I put it in windowed mode and let nvidia do some AA. Apparently it's fine if you render in 4k then set the rendering resolution to 100% and don't touch it from there... but I'm at a non-TV-friendly 1440 so gently caress me I guess. It has still got the text from a crt mixed with 2000s-era textures mixed with nonstop mandatory click gamepass errors so it hasn't been a great experience so far.

Another stunning Sega port 10/10.

# ? Oct 21, 2022 11:29

Iymarra: Oct 4, 2010; Survived AGDQ 2018 Awful Games block!; Grimey Drawer

Wish it wouldn't crash when generating system data on first time boot up on Linux. Boy howdy.

# ? Oct 21, 2022 11:41

AngryRobotsInc: Aug 2, 2011

Tired Moritz posted:

Maybe it's hiragana based

Japanese crossword puzzles do typically use hiragana or katakana (with some differences to normal writing, like smaller characters being written at full size in their own blocks and the like). Some kanji puzzles are made, but far less frequently, since it takes a lot more effort to make them work out.

# ? Oct 21, 2022 12:16

Lord_Magmar: Feb 24, 2015; "Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"

Petiso posted:

It didn't seem to me as brainwashing. The way the "stealing the treasures/corrupted desires" is explained, it's closer to waking them from a drunken stupor, you're not turning a bad person into a good person, they're still bad people that for the first time in years are able to see themselves and their actions with clarity once the source of their obsession has been removed. Like, if you also removed their memories of all of it, they'd act the same if they developed the same or a new obsession.

Or maybe that's what I want to believe, else it'd be way too hosed up, even for someone like Kamoshida.

It's a kind of brainwashing, but more literally. They take away the mental/emotional distortions that let a person lie to themselves that what they're doing is right/good and see themselves for the damage they've actually performed. To give the Kamoshida example, he's of the opinion that because he's an Olympic Athelete he can do whatever he wants (this is in fact directly said, that he's a champion who trains champions and nobody has the right to deny him anything). When you take away this distortion all the inner logic as to why the crimes he's committing are okay disappear, and he's hit with immense guilt for everything that he was lying to himself about.

At least, that's sort of the idea. Persona 5 makes, to an extent, an argument that fundamentally humans are moral beings, and immoral actions are being caused by distorted psyches not inherent evil nature. Remove distorted psyche, reinstate moral being, guilt manifests due to actions performed under distorted psyche still being remembered.

This, for the record, is why you can catch things early (Mementos) and also why Sae's thing goes the way it does. Her palace is forming, but she hasn't yet fully formed the beliefs that will lead to her distorted psyche. So you can convince her to walk away without the literal removal of the distortion (in her case, that winning the case is more important than actual justice). You could, in theory, convince the others too it's just much harder because their distorted thoughts have had longer to fester and solidify.

This is also somewhat to do with Madarame, and Yusuke's S-Link. Wherein it's discussed that Madarame got worse over Yusuke's life, but at least started out caring for Yusuke and raising him (to the point of panicking when Yusuke gets sick and Madarame doesn't know what to do about it). Doesn't excuse the other stuff, but in general there's an idea that these people got worse over time and without their obsessions/distorted psyches would have been good people.

Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 13:12 on Oct 21, 2022

# ? Oct 21, 2022 13:08

Pwnstar: Dec 9, 2007; Who wants some waffles?

Taking away distorted desires is the upgraded version of post-nut clarity.

# ? Oct 21, 2022 13:17

NikkolasKing: Apr 3, 2010

Lord_Magmar posted:

It's a kind of brainwashing, but more literally. They take away the mental/emotional distortions that let a person lie to themselves that what they're doing is right/good and see themselves for the damage they've actually performed. To give the Kamoshida example, he's of the opinion that because he's an Olympic Athelete he can do whatever he wants (this is in fact directly said, that he's a champion who trains champions and nobody has the right to deny him anything). When you take away this distortion all the inner logic as to why the crimes he's committing are okay disappear, and he's hit with immense guilt for everything that he was lying to himself about.

At least, that's sort of the idea. Persona 5 makes, to an extent, an argument that fundamentally humans are moral beings, and immoral actions are being caused by distorted psyches not inherent evil nature. Remove distorted psyche, reinstate moral being, guilt manifests due to actions performed under distorted psyche still being remembered.

This, for the record, is why you can catch things early (Mementos) and also why Sae's thing goes the way it does. Her palace is forming, but she hasn't yet fully formed the beliefs that will lead to her distorted psyche. So you can convince her to walk away without the literal removal of the distortion (in her case, that winning the case is more important than actual justice). You could, in theory, convince the others too it's just much harder because their distorted thoughts have had longer to fester and solidify.

This is also somewhat to do with Madarame, and Yusuke's S-Link. Wherein it's discussed that Madarame got worse over Yusuke's life, but at least started out caring for Yusuke and raising him (to the point of panicking when Yusuke gets sick and Madarame doesn't know what to do about it). Doesn't excuse the other stuff, but in general there's an idea that these people got worse over time and without their obsessions/distorted psyches would have been good people.

This is my memory of things too but the way I remember arguing with people about it is that it's still force. You're still altering someone's mind against their will. Kamoshida and the others still made the choices they did 100% under their own will and only feel guilt due to the Thieves' actions.

But yeah, like you said, every human being om P5 Land is a moral being who would not partake in immoral activities if they were "pure of mind." But nobody is pure of mind so hat's nonsense. The way I remember Akechi working, they even stressed how he didn't have a Palace and wasn't "distorted." This was just him. Might be remembering wrong, though. It would have also just been plain more interesting if our heroes eventually looked at a villain and saw no Palace - the villain is either so black of heart or so pure in his/her convictions that there is no "distortion." But the Persona series is nothing if not consistently optimistic. I can't picture in a game like P5 our hopeful heroes breaking into someone's mind only to discover the howling void where their conscience should be and having to deal with that.

NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Oct 21, 2022

# ? Oct 21, 2022 14:26

Weird Pumpkin: Oct 7, 2007

Welp, persona 5 out of the box definitely doesn't run all that well on my surface. I could probably play with the settings and make it tolerable but I'm going to be back on Sunday anyway so I'll just wait a few days to start

# ? Oct 21, 2022 14:34

ajkalan: Aug 17, 2011

Am I missing something obvious, or can you not use the analog stick to select dialogue options in the PC version? I can only use the D-pad there and it's kind of irritating.

# ? Oct 21, 2022 14:49

Arist: Feb 13, 2012; _{who, me?}

Did a quick install to check some things and the Game Pass version doesn't support PS gamepad icons or, for some reason, borderless windowed mode. Might just buy it on Steam then.

# ? Oct 21, 2022 14:56

Lord_Magmar: Feb 24, 2015; "Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"

NikkolasKing posted:

This is my memory of things too but the way I remember arguing with people about it is that it's still force. You're still altering someone's mind against their will. Kamoshida and the others still made the choices they did 100% under their own will and only feel guilt due to the Thieves' actions.

But yeah, like you said, every human being om P5 Land is a moral being who would not partake in immoral activities if they were "pure of mind." But nobody is pure of mind so hat's nonsense. The way I remember Akechi working, they even stressed how he didn't have a Palace and wasn't "distorted." This was just him. Might be remembering wrong, though. It would have also just been plain more interesting if our heroes eventually looked at a villain and saw no Palace - the villain is either so black of heart or so pure in his/her convictions that there is no "distortion." But the Persona series is nothing if not consistently optimistic. I can't picture in a game like P5 our hopeful heroes breaking into someone's mind only to discover the howling void where their conscience should be and having to deal with that.

Akechi cannot form a Palace because he has awakened to a Persona, admittedly by embracing his worst self but still. Palaces form around your Shadow, since a Persona is a Shadow, the situation in which one has a Palace and a Persona are quite rare indeed. Although we do, of course encounter such a situation in Royal.

Basically, Akechi is indeed under no self-delusions or distorted desires, he has faced his Shadow Self and awakened it as a weapon. But his situation is also related to being "the other player" in Yaldabaoth's game. Akechi knows he's a monster, understands his actions are unjust, he doesn't care. Even then the situation with Loki and Robin Hood represents a pseudo Shadow-Mask relationship. Robin Hood is who Akechi presents himself to the world as, Loki is the real madness behind the mask, the Shadow that Akechi embraces. The final form, a synthesis of the two born from him wielding his broken nature as a tool for justice instead of vengeance.

It absolutely is done by force though, they are changing these people's minds irreversibly. They take away the self-justification and leave behind only the truth of immoral action. Which is they agree, sketchy as hell in terms of morality, hence only doing so with unanimous vote, and as Sae shows you can undo distortion without the metaverse. Since their entire plan relies on them specifically not stealing Sae's heart but instead having Joker literally talk her into changing on her own (and indeed, her Palace disappears).

For what it is worth, their powers also don't actually go away. Simply they lose the means of access to the subconscious of humanity that lets them use those powers. They still have them and any situation in which the walls of conscious and subconscious are weakened will grant them access again.

As far as the conviction thing that's Shido. He is so convinced he is righteous that he would rather commit temporary suicide via poison than accept the Phantom Thieves stealing his heart.

Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Oct 21, 2022

# ? Oct 21, 2022 15:26

anakha: Sep 16, 2009

https://twitter.com/ErikaHarlacher/status/1583346278301245441

# ? Oct 21, 2022 16:46

Flair: Apr 5, 2016

Tired Moritz posted:

Maybe it's hiragana based

I hope this answers your question:

# ? Oct 21, 2022 17:07

cheesetriangles: Jan 5, 2011

ajkalan posted:

Am I missing something obvious, or can you not use the analog stick to select dialogue options in the PC version? I can only use the D-pad there and it's kind of irritating.

The original game was like that too.

# ? Oct 21, 2022 20:53

NikkolasKing: Apr 3, 2010

Lord_Magmar posted:

Akechi cannot form a Palace because he has awakened to a Persona, admittedly by embracing his worst self but still. Palaces form around your Shadow, since a Persona is a Shadow, the situation in which one has a Palace and a Persona are quite rare indeed. Although we do, of course encounter such a situation in Royal.

Basically, Akechi is indeed under no self-delusions or distorted desires, he has faced his Shadow Self and awakened it as a weapon. But his situation is also related to being "the other player" in Yaldabaoth's game. Akechi knows he's a monster, understands his actions are unjust, he doesn't care. Even then the situation with Loki and Robin Hood represents a pseudo Shadow-Mask relationship. Robin Hood is who Akechi presents himself to the world as, Loki is the real madness behind the mask, the Shadow that Akechi embraces. The final form, a synthesis of the two born from him wielding his broken nature as a tool for justice instead of vengeance.

It absolutely is done by force though, they are changing these people's minds irreversibly. They take away the self-justification and leave behind only the truth of immoral action. Which is they agree, sketchy as hell in terms of morality, hence only doing so with unanimous vote, and as Sae shows you can undo distortion without the metaverse. Since their entire plan relies on them specifically not stealing Sae's heart but instead having Joker literally talk her into changing on her own (and indeed, her Palace disappears).

For what it is worth, their powers also don't actually go away. Simply they lose the means of access to the subconscious of humanity that lets them use those powers. They still have them and any situation in which the walls of conscious and subconscious are weakened will grant them access again.

As far as the conviction thing that's Shido. He is so convinced he is righteous that he would rather commit temporary suicide via poison than accept the Phantom Thieves stealing his heart.

But they do steal his heart and he ends up a miserable "WHAT HAVE I DONE" just like everyone else. The very fact he has a Palace shows he has distorted desires or whatever. All the bad guys regret what they've done in P5.

Of course, I have much more memory of, and interest in, P4 and can't help but think of how the Killer would fit into all this. He had a Persona too, after all. At the same time, Adachi is peculiar in that even his "villain self" we confront isn't "truly him." All the cackling he does there and in the Accomplice Ending feels just as false as his slacker doofus act. He would probably have a palace since he lies to himself more than even the P5 bad guys do. In the end, going to prison might have been the happiest, healthiest thing for him. Just stopping him and then Dojima showing him some kindness got through his warped delusions.

# ? Oct 21, 2022 20:56

unattended spaghetti: May 10, 2013

Now that there�s some renewed interest in P5R, I�ve got a question.

I�m just kinda winging it as I go, as far as fusions are concerned, but is there a detailed writeup anywhere about fusion mechanics? My tiny brain gets all knotted up when I think about fusing anything in a chain longer than like� two. I�m not generally an optimizer, but my strategy has been like this:

Cover all elemental attacks, or as near to all as I can manage. Then, cover all buffs/debuffs, even if I have to snag something lower level.

But everything feels real patchwork, and I can�t help thinking I�m missing something as I move forward.

MC is 21 atm, and I�m about to go into the bank, fyi.

If there�s either a comprehensive writeup on the particulars of fusion, or if y�all have any fusion tips, I�d love to hear them.

The game�s not posing a challenge, per se, other than running into a miniboss that inflicted brainwash and needing to tweak my setup to deal with that, but something about fusion just makes me want to build the perfect setup.

# ? Oct 21, 2022 21:15

Feels Villeneuve: Oct 7, 2007; Setter is Better.

There are definitely fusion guides on gamefaqs and the like, a lot of people do find it fun to make as OP a demon as possible even if that's only necessary in some very specific optional bonus fights

# ? Oct 21, 2022 21:19

Flair: Apr 5, 2016

BurningBeard posted:

Now that there�s some renewed interest in P5R, I�ve got a question.

I�m just kinda winging it as I go, as far as fusions are concerned, but is there a detailed writeup anywhere about fusion mechanics? My tiny brain gets all knotted up when I think about fusing anything in a chain longer than like� two. I�m not generally an optimizer, but my strategy has been like this:

Cover all elemental attacks, or as near to all as I can manage. Then, cover all buffs/debuffs, even if I have to snag something lower level.

But everything feels real patchwork, and I can�t help thinking I�m missing something as I move forward.

MC is 21 atm, and I�m about to go into the bank, fyi.

If there�s either a comprehensive writeup on the particulars of fusion, or if y�all have any fusion tips, I�d love to hear them.

The game�s not posing a challenge, per se, other than running into a miniboss that inflicted brainwash and needing to tweak my setup to deal with that, but something about fusion just makes me want to build the perfect setup.

Here is a fusion calculator: https://chinhodado.github.io/persona5_calculator/index.html#/list

There are certain fusions that are fixed, but most allow for a variety of different Personas or Arcanas to fuse into the resulting Persona. Aside from a fusion accident, the resulted fusion is dictated by the Arcana, Level, and/or identity of the inputted Persona.

If you are looking optimal Personas to use in a given story beat, gamefaqs or speedrun guides are the way to go. (That being said, the DLC persona is always good.)

# ? Oct 21, 2022 21:30

Orcs and Ostriches: Aug 26, 2010; The Great Twist

BurningBeard posted:

Now that there�s some renewed interest in P5R, I�ve got a question.

I�m just kinda winging it as I go, as far as fusions are concerned, but is there a detailed writeup anywhere about fusion mechanics? My tiny brain gets all knotted up when I think about fusing anything in a chain longer than like� two. I�m not generally an optimizer, but my strategy has been like this:

Cover all elemental attacks, or as near to all as I can manage. Then, cover all buffs/debuffs, even if I have to snag something lower level.

But everything feels real patchwork, and I can�t help thinking I�m missing something as I move forward.

MC is 21 atm, and I�m about to go into the bank, fyi.

If there�s either a comprehensive writeup on the particulars of fusion, or if y�all have any fusion tips, I�d love to hear them.

The game�s not posing a challenge, per se, other than running into a miniboss that inflicted brainwash and needing to tweak my setup to deal with that, but something about fusion just makes me want to build the perfect setup.

I always wing it, but I have one suggestion - cover your defenses.

There are some story bosses that are absolute motherfuckers, but you can shut them down 100% if you have a persona that covers their 2 or 3 main attacks.

# ? Oct 21, 2022 21:46

Dragonrah: Aug 22, 2003; J.C. Bearington, III

ajkalan posted:

Am I missing something obvious, or can you not use the analog stick to select dialogue options in the PC version? I can only use the D-pad there and it's kind of irritating.

I�m use to it now(second play though), but that infuriated me when I first started.

# ? Oct 21, 2022 22:47

anakha: Sep 16, 2009

Flair posted:

Here is a fusion calculator: https://chinhodado.github.io/persona5_calculator/index.html#/list

Small correction here, the link you have is for vanilla P5 - the Royal version is here. It's a little more complicated to use because you have to update the settings depending on what DLC persona you have (if any), as even those DLCs can be fusion ingredients/results themselves.

BurningBeard posted:

If there�s either a comprehensive writeup on the particulars of fusion, or if y�all have any fusion tips, I�d love to hear them.

Passive skills in P5R can be gamebreakers, and some of the strongest Persona you can build will be based on one, maybe two attack skills augmented by a bunch of passives that either boost the damage of those skills, reduce the SP/HP cost, or provide a boost to your defenses by nullifying elements or reducing the chance for enemies to hit you.

For example, the Persona spoilered below has two strong Gun-based attacks then has two passives that boost Gun damage, two more passives that increase the chance for a critical hit using those attacks, one passive that reduces HP cost of those attacks, and the last reducing the time spent under a status effect.

You can build a Persona for example that has all the strongest elemental spells you can put on it, but it generally is better to create different specialist Personas like the example above because they can be more effective in the specific things they do, and since Joker has multiple slots for Personas, you can put multiple specialists on your roster to get the same coverage as you would with a generalist build.

Orcs and Ostriches posted:

I always wing it, but I have one suggestion - cover your defenses.

There are some story bosses that are absolute motherfuckers, but you can shut them down 100% if you have a persona that covers their 2 or 3 main attacks.

This too. A Persona with multiple elemental defense coverages can be worth its weight in gold. The fusion calculator linked above will show you each Persona's defense strengths and weaknesses so use that as a guide.

# ? Oct 21, 2022 22:56

cheesetriangles: Jan 5, 2011

The new ports have all the dlc built in so just tell the calculator you have them all.

# ? Oct 21, 2022 23:03

Scoss: Aug 17, 2015

I'm a little irritated that I have to mentally filter past a bunch of overpowered cheater personas every time I look in the compendium, and that talking to the box in my room flooded my inventory with a pile of ill-gotten accessories and enough yen to invalidate the first few months of the game.

I recommend not touching the box!

(Also, I was able to manually fuse one of the DLC personas at level 12 but couldn't register it? The 0 yen "gift" version was the only entry in the compendium. I'm not sure what the deal is with these things exactly)

# ? Oct 21, 2022 23:32

Commander Keene: Dec 21, 2016; Faster than the others

cheesetriangles posted:

The new ports have all the dlc built in so just tell the calculator you have them all.

I know Royal on PS4 has all the DLC from vanilla baked in, the Steam/Switch releases have all the Royal-specific DLC baked in? I guess except for the Raidou outfit that got cut?

# ? Oct 21, 2022 23:45

unattended spaghetti: May 10, 2013

anakha posted:

Small correction here, the link you have is for vanilla P5 - the Royal version is here. It's a little more complicated to use because you have to update the settings depending on what DLC persona you have (if any), as even those DLCs can be fusion ingredients/results themselves.

Passive skills in P5R can be gamebreakers, and some of the strongest Persona you can build will be based on one, maybe two attack skills augmented by a bunch of passives that either boost the damage of those skills, reduce the SP/HP cost, or provide a boost to your defenses by nullifying elements or reducing the chance for enemies to hit you.

For example, the Persona spoilered below has two strong Gun-based attacks then has two passives that boost Gun damage, two more passives that increase the chance for a critical hit using those attacks, one passive that reduces HP cost of those attacks, and the last reducing the time spent under a status effect.

You can build a Persona for example that has all the strongest elemental spells you can put on it, but it generally is better to create different specialist Personas like the example above because they can be more effective in the specific things they do, and since Joker has multiple slots for Personas, you can put multiple specialists on your roster to get the same coverage as you would with a generalist build.

This too. A Persona with multiple elemental defense coverages can be worth its weight in gold. The fusion calculator linked above will show you each Persona's defense strengths and weaknesses so use that as a guide.

Thank you.

# ? Oct 21, 2022 23:54

neonchameleon: Nov 14, 2012

BurningBeard posted:

Now that there�s some renewed interest in P5R, I�ve got a question.

I�m just kinda winging it as I go, as far as fusions are concerned, but is there a detailed writeup anywhere about fusion mechanics? My tiny brain gets all knotted up when I think about fusing anything in a chain longer than like� two. I�m not generally an optimizer, but my strategy has been like this:

Cover all elemental attacks, or as near to all as I can manage. Then, cover all buffs/debuffs, even if I have to snag something lower level.

But everything feels real patchwork, and I can�t help thinking I�m missing something as I move forward.

MC is 21 atm, and I�m about to go into the bank, fyi.

If there�s either a comprehensive writeup on the particulars of fusion, or if y�all have any fusion tips, I�d love to hear them.

The game�s not posing a challenge, per se, other than running into a miniboss that inflicted brainwash and needing to tweak my setup to deal with that, but something about fusion just makes me want to build the perfect setup.

My approach uses more of the following Personas as the game goes on.

Try not to leave weaknesses on your mainline personas. These can lose you the game. From level 34 onwards use Lockdown - or skill cards.
When you can you want a starter persona - three Auto-Ma skills, no weaknesses. Possibly Heat Up and regen/recover sp. I don't intend to attack with this persona but set it to my default and shred enemies. (Warning: Can make the game far too easy to have all three skills boosted on your party every fight).
You want one or near the endgame two Elemental Variety Personas. These have a serious collection of as basic elemental attacks as I can find, often through skill cards. They aren't intended to do damage so much as knock people down for low cost and so continue baton passes. Often built with no weaknesses and for SP recovery so I can tear through a dungeon easily and end with more SP than I started with on Joker most fights.
A few single element killers - pick an element and get a high powered single target and multi target attack of that element - but what turns these into monsters are the passive skills, starting with Bless and Amp. These are intended to just hit as hard as you can - either at the end of a sweep (and are where you put cost reducing skills) or just on a hard fight - but you want two or three of these to avoid resists. You also want whichever is relevant of Charge or Concentrate to set them up but they can be on any persona.
Anakha's example of a high level gun persona above is a good one. No vulnerabilities and a Null, Drain, or Repel in your own element just in case someone reflects your attack back at you. Both a huge single target gun attack and a huge AoE gun attack for the two types of foe. And then the supporting skills Gun Boost (25% extra gun damage), Gun Amp (50% extra gun damage), Arms Master (half HP cost for physical skills), Apt Pupil (more crits), and Trigger Happy (more gun crits). And finally the Will of the Sword trait to increase the effect of Charge from 2.5 times damage to 3 times damage. Oh, and a high strength as that's your physical/gun damage stat.
Finally you want some utility and random personas. Support counts. Broken DLC personas if you use them count, so do oddballs like Alice (who has ludicrous instant death stuff).

And some more general tips.

Status Effects - palace bosses in general can't be disabled while mini-bosses can. The best debilitates on non-bosses come out of guns because you get multiple chances to land them so an entire clip will have a better cumulative chance of disabling enemies through cumulative effects than , and your starting four all have easily accessible awesome gun and guns in Royal reload for every fight. Joker's Paper Bag Gun inflicts High Shock which technicals with gunshots (and is awesome because it stays after a technical). Blam-shocked. Blam-technical-knockdown out of nowhere. If you are using the Electric Chair (unlocks after palace 2, upgrades after palace 3) Ann's low-med brainwash gun is an amazing disabler thanks to its twelve bullets (and should be upgraded) but you need psi to technical with it. Morgana gets sleep which is of course self-technicaling. And Ryuji's med-high burn is possibly the weakest but still really impressive, combining with wind or nuke.
Status Effects - you need probably another debilitate (sleep's great) because some foes are immune to guns. Also take the boosts on attacks.
Buffs and Debuffs. As a rule of thumb don't have Joker do what a team mate can. The only debuff you really want on Joker when you can get it is Debilitate as it hits all three target stats. For the same reason with the exception of Charge, Concentrate, and the broken DLC Persona Orpheus F Joker probably shouldn't be your buffer - or if he is build it round your team.
Healing. Until you get the good resurrections you don't need one (Melon Pan is cheap so are other resurrection items and can be used by teammates). Have a heal for a rainy day but you don't want to be healing (again other than with DLC personas). Damage mitigation is normally better but you want panic buttons.

# ? Oct 22, 2022 00:34

Oxxidation: Jul 22, 2007

persona 5 burning up the steam charts

for all its faults, it definitely seems to have more of a grip on the playerbase than the other games. probably a combination of style and homoerotic tension

# ? Oct 22, 2022 00:37

anakha: Sep 16, 2009

neonchameleon posted:

These are also some really good tips, so I'll just supplement some of the suggestions with examples.

neonchameleon posted:

When you can you want a starter persona - three Auto-Ma skills, no weaknesses. Possibly Heat Up and regen/recover sp. I don't intend to attack with this persona but set it to my default and shred enemies. (Warning: Can make the game far too easy to have all three skills boosted on your party every fight).

neonchameleon posted:

You want one or near the endgame two Elemental Variety Personas. These have a serious collection of as basic elemental attacks as I can find, often through skill cards. They aren't intended to do damage so much as knock people down for low cost and so continue baton passes. Often built with no weaknesses and for SP recovery so I can tear through a dungeon easily and end with more SP than I started with on Joker most fights.

neonchameleon posted:

A few single element killers - pick an element and get a high powered single target and multi target attack of that element - but what turns these into monsters are the passive skills, starting with Bless and Amp. These are intended to just hit as hard as you can - either at the end of a sweep (and are where you put cost reducing skills) or just on a hard fight - but you want two or three of these to avoid resists. You also want whichever is relevant of Charge or Concentrate to set them up but they can be on any persona.

neonchameleon posted:

Finally you want some utility and random personas. Support counts. Broken DLC personas if you use them count, so do oddballs like Alice (who has ludicrous instant death stuff).