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Mailer posted:Two locos, eight cargo. They munched cargo 3-7 and... that was it. No interest in the rest of the train, apparently. This caused the train to go manual due to the car destruction. I have no idea what happened to the biters. My guess is that the train ran into a crowd of biters, but wasn't able to punch the whole way through. Then it was stuck and the biters in the middle of the pack had to eat their way through because it blocked their pathing. Must have been a huge number of biters though. Do you have behemoths? That would stop a big train.
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Oct 18, 2022 19:59
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Fun, the latest version of SE has a honking fat DO NOT USE THESE DEFAULT SETTINGS OR BITERS WILL BE HARD AS gently caress when you start a new game. The sane thing would be to change the defaults, but maybe that’s something mods can’t do?
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Oct 18, 2022 20:33
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Speaking of SE anyone have tips for surviving the first CME? I have an umbrella defense but I keep reading conflicting reports about needing excess power? My main base is 4 nukes, I'm doing science in orbit now but maybe I'm really underprepared for it.
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Oct 18, 2022 21:15
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ymgve posted:Fun, the latest version of SE has a honking fat DO NOT USE THESE DEFAULT SETTINGS OR BITERS WILL BE HARD AS gently caress when you start a new game. The sane thing would be to change the defaults, but maybe that’s something mods can’t do? I believe the map settings presets are defined in a component of the base game. But mods can add their own presets.
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Oct 18, 2022 21:27
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Gadzuko posted:My guess is that the train ran into a crowd of biters, but wasn't able to punch the whole way through. Then it was stuck and the biters in the middle of the pack had to eat their way through because it blocked their pathing. Must have been a huge number of biters though. Do you have behemoths? That would stop a big train. The train can't run over behemoths? That'd be it then. I'm at .98 or so and there's green all over the place. Must have hit the pack, gotten stopped which stopped the train pollution and then the middle ones got got due to pathing weirdness which set the train to manual. The next mystery - how two cargos and the rear loco got eaten off a push-pull train while it was parked inside a double-laser-wall guarded facility. 
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Oct 19, 2022 01:04
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Like all vehicles, trains slow down a bit every time they hit something, and more for a bigger something. The biters attacking the train is just biter pathing. Biters will attack random non-targets if they are in the way of where they want to go. They will first try to go around, but if their pathing is interrupted by other biters, they'll eventually get mad and start tearing down whatever is in their way. The other train - did it maybe get eaten a while back and you just didn't notice? That would be my best theory, that biters got in there and busted it before it was walled, and other trains were able to path around so you never noticed.
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Oct 19, 2022 01:09
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I was under the impression that trains reset to manual (which is certainly what happened for the long train) when part of it was destroyed. It would have had to have two cars and an engine eaten, then start up again on its own and continue the destination. I've had these old pushpulls running for so long uninterrupted that I've only started noticing recently when the feeds run dry. In order to sort it out there has been, and will continue to be, aggressive walling. I'm covered on three sides and will shortly have the whole base blocked in. With trains being vulnerable and protecting the tracks/patches themselves being more expensive than an ever-expanding wall scenario... welp. I've probably stripped out three times the defensive structures from now-protected outposts than I've used making the superwall. 
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Oct 19, 2022 01:20
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Less Fat Luke posted:Speaking of SE anyone have tips for surviving the first CME? I have an umbrella defense but I keep reading conflicting reports about needing excess power? My main base is 4 nukes, I'm doing science in orbit now but maybe I'm really underprepared for it. The trick for early CMEs is to get an electric boiler or two using your excess power to turn water into 500c steam and stuff it into a giant array of steam tanks (or siphon some from your nuclear plant), with an attached wing of steam turbines isolated from your power grid so they don’t use any power until you plug them in when the CME arrives. The CME strength for default settings Nauvis should be about 2.2GW, you can check it using the information [i] screen under energy beams. If you just have enough spare power in the main grid you can just tank it and not worry, though that does mean a lot of overbuilding. Darox fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Oct 19, 2022 |
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Oct 19, 2022 02:10
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Darox posted:The trick for early CMEs is to get an electric boiler or two using your excess power to turn water into 500c steam and stuff it into a giant array of steam tanks (or siphon some from your nuclear plant), with an attached wing of steam turbines isolated from your power grid so they don’t use any power until you plug them in when the CME arrives. Could you not just build an accumulator bank for this?
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Oct 19, 2022 03:38
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A single tank filled with 500c steam is equivalent to 480 accumulators. That's the main reason why you don't use accumulators for it.
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Oct 19, 2022 03:50
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Darox posted:A single tank filled with 500c steam is equivalent to 480 accumulators. That's the main reason why you don't use accumulators for it. But don't you need 2.2gw of steam turbines to actually produce the power?
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Oct 19, 2022 04:09
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The Locator posted:But don't you need 2.2gw of steam turbines to actually produce the power? sure but you could plop a big blueprint way ahead of time that you incrementally fill as you build them, and then they take advantage of tanks that were filled slow and steady with excess electrical power through electric boilers rather than having to stand up a whole fuel source input for them. really the reason to use the tank method is that you can fill them using excess power with electrical boilers. if you're confident you can get enough nuclear set up (or enough solar, or enough whatever) by the time it happens then there's no real benefit from doing the tank thing, you just have a shitload of power now. also if you don't really find the mechanism at all engaging and instead something that just requires constant mental overhead and preparation for something rare and super damaging you can just make them every like 1000 hours you can do this for meteors too because who the gently caress cares i did both Phobeste fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Oct 19, 2022 |
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Oct 19, 2022 04:33
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The Locator posted:But don't you need 2.2gw of steam turbines to actually produce the power? 400 steam turbines is a lot cheaper and easier to repurpose than the 37 thousand accumulators you'd need to deal with a CME.
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Oct 19, 2022 05:06
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Darox posted:400 steam turbines is a lot cheaper and easier to repurpose than the 37 thousand accumulators you'd need to deal with a CME. To both of you, fair enough. I will never deal with this because I refuse to play SE because of the author's peculiarities so I've never really looked at the best way to solve that particular problem.
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Oct 19, 2022 05:58
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It occurred to me that a more productive use a time would probably be starting a new game with tweaked map settings instead of this... Triple-laser wall with roboports. It's not visible but the entire northern section is already walled off way above that old base. I'm not sure if I'd even see another biter for the rest of the game. Mailer fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Oct 19, 2022 |
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Oct 19, 2022 10:11
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You can catch a ride on cargo wagons and not just locomotives?  I have a couple hundred hours in Factorio, but I only found out just a few moments ago when playing multiplayer with a friend who just got the game and got into a cargo wagon instead of a locomotive. She had no idea why my mind was completely blown. Please tell me I'm not the only one who has put tons of time in this game without knowing this!
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Oct 19, 2022 15:00
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Yeah I'm going with the turbines, we'll see how it goes. Seems like a weird mechanic in a mod meant to last this long, it's like an MMO gear check but in a single player game.The Locator posted:To both of you, fair enough. I will never deal with this because I refuse to play SE because of the author's peculiarities so I've never really looked at the best way to solve that particular problem.
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Oct 19, 2022 15:11
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Less Fat Luke posted:Yeah I'm going with the turbines, we'll see how it goes. Seems like a weird mechanic in a mod meant to last this long, it's like an MMO gear check but in a single player game. He adds specific mods to the incompatibility list of SE because they alter his vision or something.
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Oct 19, 2022 15:52
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There's that. He also at least used to force an error during load if you have a mod with "teleport" in the name. And he has this "postprocessing" mod that runs after other mods, and demands that if you want some kind of compatibility shim with space exploration that you tell him and he'll update the postprocessing mod to do that. If you make your mod depend on that postprocessing mod (so yours loads after it and gets to "win") he will probably add it to the incompatible list when he finds out, because he's the sole arbiter of The Factorio Experience. Also the robot attrition garbage and every other dumb decision the mod does where his excuse is "well you can turn it almost off". gently caress that guy, he doesn't deserve nearly the attention he gets.
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Oct 19, 2022 16:11
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I've heard all these horror stories from the thread but also I've seen people go "I wanted to use this other major mod alongside SE but it's incompatible so I forced it and now I've softlocked, how could this happen to me???" Use the mod if you're interested in the mod, don't use it if you're not. 
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Oct 19, 2022 16:20
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Marking known or suspected incompatible - like, cause crashes or soft locks or conflicts - isn’t really the problem. The problem is that he’s got a specific vision for what he wants the game with his mod to be (fine! Good!) and therefore also marks as incompatible mods that alter parts of that vision, without technically breaking anything or being technically incompable (bad! Stop!) A good analogy for this is if wube had decided that a key part of their vision was huge parallel belt lines and smaller distributed factories so they removed blue belts and removed the ability for mods to set belt speeds above 30 items/s because that would let you build mega bases again. It’s their right I guess, under a narrow reading, but it would suck. Some examples: - teleport mods aren’t allowed and are in fact scanned for in lua to disable them. This is because the mod has a whole big tech tree about moving around the universe with different levels of effort and teleportation would let you bypass it. - yuoki is forbidden because it has very fast assemblers and loops for transmuting or generating matter, all without a tech tree. These would remove some of the intended challenge of splitting production between ground (for room and prodmods) and space (for fast machines); and between different planets, which may not have every resource - water well mods may not be placed because those surfaces aren’t supposed to have water - robot attrition may not be entirely disabled because planets or orbits that are closer to the sun have higher attrition rates to force you to build differently - my personal favorite: nauvis has a limited size to force you to go to space (makes sense, after all why wouldn’t I try my hardest to ignore space in a mod called space exploration about going to space) All of these things are based legitimately on thinking his mod is good (reasonable, I agree) and has cool stuff (ditto) and therefore wanting players to experience it the way it’s intended. But he makes this mandatory, or at least tries, rather than documenting, explaining, suggesting, and ultimately letting you do what you want.
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Oct 19, 2022 17:26
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Less Fat Luke posted:Yeah I'm going with the turbines, we'll see how it goes. Seems like a weird mechanic in a mod meant to last this long, it's like an MMO gear check but in a single player game. What those other guys all said. For me it's just not how I want to play the game. I have zero interest in dealing with random carnage and robot attrition but he doesn't allow that to be turned off or changed by another mod so I just wrote him and SE off my list a long time ago. I feel like what he does breaks the rules for mods that were established by the game designers so I simply choose not to use his stuff. I know lots of people enjoy SE, and good for them, I have zero problems with other people playing the game how they enjoy it.
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Oct 19, 2022 17:28
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power crystals posted:gently caress that guy, he doesn't deserve nearly the attention he gets. It still bugs me that Wube hired him. Yes, just as a concept artist, but still, gently caress him, I do not want anyone with that poo poo of an attitude involved in the games industry in any way, and certainly not in the company that makes my favorite game. Also, games really need to start shipping with a mod license that forces you to use one of a short list of proper public licenses, to decapitate these kind of egomanical mod creators.
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Oct 19, 2022 20:17
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K8.0 posted:It still bugs me that Wube hired him. Yes, just as a concept artist, but still, gently caress him, I do not want anyone with that poo poo of an attitude involved in the games industry in any way, and certainly not in the company that makes my favorite game. I always thought they already had that, which is why the SE mod confused me since it strays from what I thought they required, but I guess they only require that it be licensed (or open source) and not conform to a specific list of licenses.
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Oct 20, 2022 01:27
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This guy just sounds like most of the mod makers for any given game. I was actually kind of surprised how modders in Factorio (in general) like to ensure compatibility across mods and have settings in a menu you can tweak properties with. I'm used to a very "the mayo is part of the burger, sir" approach wherein you can't have Improved Torch Lighting without also installing Everyone Has Anime Eyes and More Realistic Horse Anuses. If you don't like his vision in its entirety then go make your own mod!
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Oct 20, 2022 01:38
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Mailer posted:This guy just sounds like most of the mod makers for any given game. I was actually kind of surprised how modders in Factorio (in general) like to ensure compatibility across mods and have settings in a menu you can tweak properties with. I'm used to a very "the mayo is part of the burger, sir" approach wherein you can't have Improved Torch Lighting without also installing Everyone Has Anime Eyes and More Realistic Horse Anuses. If you don't like his vision in its entirety then go make your own mod! Also if you try to make your own mod by carving out a portion of it, they'll throw a shitfit and get nexusmods to ban you
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Oct 20, 2022 01:53
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Assetto Corsa is so bad that a modder developed a way to encrypt mod files so they couldn't be further modified and so many mods require that feature that users are required to use this extension to use any of the most popular mods.
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Oct 20, 2022 03:13
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KillHour posted:Assetto Corsa is so bad that a modder developed a way to encrypt mod files so they couldn't be further modified and so many mods require that feature that users are required to use this extension to use any of the most popular mods. No loving way.
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Oct 20, 2022 05:44
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I finished half of the great wall expanding my empire, and with triple lasers that's a lot of Stay On Your Own Side. Because nothing else had been developed and I'd daisy-chained the power behind the turrets, they strategically sniped one high in the wall behind the turrets to disable the wall while also throwing a large army at it. Took out ~130 turrets by the time I got up there to stop them. Unfortunately they also coordinated with four other attacks, causing all the lasers to fire at once. No problem, I got nuclear... except the blueprint I'd shamefully stolen from the internet that worked well every other time didn't start up due to having no power (despite an alleged solar backup) from all the lasers in the world firing simultaneously. Wound up having to manually throw cells into the reactors to fire it up and then everything went quiet. Say what you like but the biters are definitely military strategists.
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Oct 20, 2022 05:46
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Mailer posted:I finished half of the great wall expanding my empire, and with triple lasers that's a lot of Stay On Your Own Side. Because nothing else had been developed and I'd daisy-chained the power behind the turrets, they strategically sniped one high in the wall behind the turrets to disable the wall while also throwing a large army at it. Took out ~130 turrets by the time I got up there to stop them. lol... thing about nuclear is, you really don't need to set up smarts on the plants, unless you just want to. Even without Kovarex you can power nuclear for many many real world days or weeks off of the very first small uranium patch you find. I don't have the numbers handy, but nuclear is just really easy to keep up and running full bore at all times and never worry about it. In the case of reactive power like your biter attacks, nuclear is very slow to 'spin up' so unless you had a large steam buffer to actually make the power, the plants wouldn't help in time anyway.
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Oct 20, 2022 07:21
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The Locator posted:lol... thing about nuclear is, you really don't need to set up smarts on the plants, unless you just want to. Even without Kovarex you can power nuclear for many many real world days or weeks off of the very first small uranium patch you find. I don't have the numbers handy, but nuclear is just really easy to keep up and running full bore at all times and never worry about it. 3 miners into 1 centrifuge on the normal process is enough to keep 1 reactor supplied forever*, even if you don't use any circuits to optimize fuel usage. *until your storage is full with the uranium 238 you don't need
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Oct 20, 2022 08:57
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I tried tracing the wiring and the activation seemed to be linked to two disabled combinators and at that point I just stripped it out of the design and figured we goin' nuclear. Got 16 reactors now and enough space to hit 20-something in a 2x1 config line. I've also freed up enough space to get me another couple GW of solar so I should be good for a while without needing to pick a second water location for the reactors. At least my wall is done and I can finally start building a base. Tamba posted:3 miners into 1 centrifuge on the normal process is enough to keep 1 reactor supplied forever*, even if you don't use any circuits to optimize fuel usage. I always start farming early then spin up Kovarex the second I unlock it so by the time my first reactors popped up I had 2*4.8k cells and was backed up on 235. I'll probably make nukes or something with it eventually, and this is only my initial tiny patch. Almost all of my 238 is in a bucket as the output of the recycler that goes straight back into making cells.
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Oct 20, 2022 13:46
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I just use this blueprint with no smarts. I really like this design because it has all the water inputs on one side, so all you need is a lake big enough to landfill part of to get the flat edge. Only thing I don't like is it doesn't have steam storage, but imo that's a QoL thing not a necessary feature. Even skipping kovarex early I have no problem fueling it off a starter ore patch with 6-8 centrifuges with speed 1s and an assembler 3 with prod mods for making the fuel cells to stretch the 235 a bit farther. Tamba posted:*until your storage is full with the uranium 238 you don't need In my current base I had the problem of running out of 238 while having 50k 235 sitting around due to not limiting the output on my kovarex plant and having almost 100 wall segments that each store about 3k uranium ammo. I hooked up a second uranium patch just to get 238 out of it, with any 235 that comes out just going into nuclear missiles as a waste product. Also using nuclear fuel to run boilers for coal liquefaction.
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Oct 20, 2022 19:09
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I'm playing SE (along with K2, if that matters), and I've recently (and finally) researched logistics chests. I'm wondering if there's a better way to send logistic network signals across planets than what I'm currently doing. The problem I want to solve is automation of delivery cannons on Nauvis; I want them to activate when the logi network on Nauvis orbit starts running low on items. Signal transmitters can send circuit network signals across planets, but not logistic network signals. What I've devised is a pair of 2x2 chests next to each other, storing a single copy of an item that I want sent. They have inserters between them, one facing towards each chest. These inserters are connected to the logistics network, and programmed so that when the item I want delivered runs below a certain threshhold, the item in the top chest is moved into the bottom chest. This bottom chest is connected to the circuit network, which sends its contents as a signal back to Nauvis. I then use this circuit network signal to enable or disable the delivery cannons as needed. It's a bit wordy when I explain it in text, so here's a diagram of my setup.  This works, which is the most important part, but it feels really kludgy, and I need to set up an extra pair of chests for every type of item I want to send via delivery cannon. As far as I can tell, though, there's no way to directly send data on logistic network contents via the circuit network, and also no way to transmit logistic network contents across planets. A related question, but in order to prevent accidents I also want to disable my delivery cannons if a buffer chest next to a delivery cannon receiving chest gets close to full. Is there a way to tell via circuit network whether a chest is full or not when that chest may have any number of types of items of various stack sizes inside? If it's a chest with just one variety of item, you can just multiply the stack size by the number of slots in the chest, but the only way I can think of when the contents of the chest are arbitrary is trying to insert something and see if it goes in, which won't work if I want to detect a half full chest...
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Oct 21, 2022 14:55
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You can just tell a decider combinator to output an appropriate signal with a strength of 1 when your condition is met. You can check the contents of the logistics network by connecting a roboport to circuit wire. As for making sure your landing chest has space, there is a complex and ugly way to solve it using a single delivery chest or you could just take the sane and simple approach of using multiple chests.
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Oct 21, 2022 15:04
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Wow, I had no idea you could just directly hook roboports up to the circuit network. I guess that's one problem easily solved. As for the landing chest issue, I guess just adding more buffer than I'll ever need is an easy way to do it. Stacking multiple buffer chests together is easy with K2's loaders, and then I can just disable the cannons if there's any item at all in the final chest. Thank you!
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Oct 21, 2022 15:20
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You can also read the bot counts. Which is handy for adding bots to the network but not too many - I like to have inserters wired up to insert when available bots are <200.
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Oct 21, 2022 17:57
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Spoggerific posted:Wow, I had no idea you could just directly hook roboports up to the circuit network. I guess that's one problem easily solved. Be careful to only enable the sender on a positive signal. Using something like "less than x items" is a bad idea, because 0 is less than X, and you will accidentally send a 0 if the base runs out of power. Then you are blowing your base up with rods from God if there isn't sufficient storage capacity.
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Oct 21, 2022 19:26
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On the topic of roboports on the circuit network, can you get building counts from the circuit? i.e. could you determine how many total robots you have slots for in the roboports and limit production based on there simply being nowhere for a new bot to live?
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Oct 21, 2022 21:48
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| # ? Jun 11, 2024 04:27 |
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Mailer posted:This guy just sounds like most of the mod makers for any given game. I was actually kind of surprised how modders in Factorio (in general) like to ensure compatibility across mods and have settings in a menu you can tweak properties with. I'm used to a very "the mayo is part of the burger, sir" approach wherein you can't have Improved Torch Lighting without also installing Everyone Has Anime Eyes and More Realistic Horse Anuses. If you don't like his vision in its entirety then go make your own mod! I demand LESS Realistic Horse Anuses in my Factorio. I want them all to look like giant chocolate crullers. No I will not be implementing this myself.
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Oct 21, 2022 22:27
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