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Quantum of Phallus posted:At the end of the day like I always say, all is forgiven if the game is fun. Gotham knights looks like dumbass Ubisoft drudgery and most importantly, not fun.
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Oct 22, 2022 12:28
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| # ? May 24, 2024 02:23 |
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Medieval Dynasty was just updated to run at 60 fps. XBOX Series X - Quality Mode: DynRes 4K - 1440p, 30fps; Performance Mode: DynRes 1440p - 1080p, 60fps XBOX Series S - Quality Mode: DynRes 1440p - 1080p, 30fps; Performance Mode: DynRes 1080 - 900p, 60fps
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Oct 22, 2022 14:24
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Feels Villeneuve posted:How many absolute masterpiece AAA "next-gen" graphical showpiece games have there been? The bulk of my favorite games in the last few years have been indies or games which haven't been graphical showstoppers because they're on the Switch or something. The only things that come close was Cyberpunk which, much as I like it, has serious issues, and like, Xenoblade 3 which was a graphical showpiece in the sense that it looks really good by Switch standards. The main issue with RAM isn't so much the graphics as it is what's happening under the hood. Games wanting to do new things need resources to do it and RAM is a big one, which is why every console generation until this one has been a 4-8x increase in RAM, and reminder that's one of the big reasons why Xbox was as cocky as they were leading up to the Xbox One's launch (they thought the XB1 would have double the PS4's RAM and went with slower RAM to hit the 8gb number, but then Sony last minute managed to bump the PS4 to 8gb as well). Going from 8gb of RAM to...8gb isn't the news some devs were hoping for, especially since the XB1X even had more (12gb). To highlight RAM's importance and how it's not just a graphics thing, the original version of Dwarf Fortress had no "graphics" to speak of and renders entirely using ASCII text, which some DOS games in the 80s and very early 90s also did. Dwarf Fortress, however, is doing things complex enough that it needs a full gig of RAM to do it, when every 80s-90s ASCII game works with half a meg of RAM or even less. Despite how it looks you couldn't accurately back-port Dwarf Fortress to even a powerful 486 or Pentium 1 from those days. Similarly there are some custom DOOM levels that specifically leverage the game's open source nature to run on upgraded ports of DOOM, and can't be back-ported to run on Vanilla DOOM without significant changes and simplifications, even though they're in many cases not actually adding new graphics or anything like that. John Romero's very own SIGIL was one of these, even, and he was one of the very few people who actually worked on Vanilla DOOM. Assuming this is as big a problem as is being alluded to, my guess is that Microsoft will eventually allow a bit more of a split between the Series S and Series X versions of games, and may at some point do a silent Series S revision that gives it some tiny bumps like going to 12 or 16 gigs of RAM and having a 1tb internal drive (so a bit like what the XB1S did relative to the original VCR-style Bone). So still a pain in that devs will still need to build two versions, but at least there'll some flexibility for devs to "turn it up to 11" for the Series X version if they have a set mind about doing so. And as Rocksteady so eloquently displayed, some devs will gently caress it up no matter how much space magic processing power you give them.
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Oct 22, 2022 17:02
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Hoping to get a mid gen upgrade Xbox Series SS
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Oct 22, 2022 17:07
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I think that's because Dwarf Fortress and GZDoom were coded by amateurs, some of whom had brain problems. Like I've had GZDoom drop frames on a modern computer on vanilla levels
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Oct 22, 2022 17:09
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isn't the entire point of the modern ultrafast SSDs that you don't, in fact, need to store a bunch of poo poo in memory. but software developers always lag behind hardware capabilities by a few years to an extremely long amount of time. game developers are in a weird place where some of them are gods who learn a console inside out and can make amazing poo poo and other ones just release turds that barely run even 7 years into a generation
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Oct 22, 2022 17:19
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univbee posted:Assuming this is as big a problem as is being alluded to Alluded to by who…? You? The Surgeon Simulator devs?
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Oct 22, 2022 17:27
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Some argue
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Oct 22, 2022 17:28
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Feels Villeneuve posted:I think that's because Dwarf Fortress and GZDoom were coded by amateurs, some of whom had brain problems. Like I've had GZDoom drop frames on a modern computer on vanilla levels Nah this isn't GZDoom, there are other well-regarded DOOM ports that are being considered here (GZDoom usually works but is notoriously wonky like you said and most people who do serious DOOM stuff these days use something else like PRBoom+). Vanilla DOOM has some hard limits internally that the base EXE can't break through, this is part of why the game works on a 386/486. There's a limit to how much is actually visible on screen at a time which includes things like sectors; if you go a little bit over you get a hall-of-mirrors effect looking at things from certain angles, and in extreme cases it'll crash the game or refuse to load a level that it knows is going past those limits. The DOOM community actually has its own concept for WADs called "complevel" where maps are designed to follow certain rules based on the complevel limitation. Some of these change how the game's physics are handled, like in the Vanilla complevels you can't jump "over" monsters or go underneath flying monsters (according to the game's engine, they are considered to have "infinite height"), but some of the higher complevels allow you to bypass this, but a bigger component is that they remove the limitations that vanilla DOOM has, so you'll have maps with surprisingly elaborate geometry and waves of monsters several thousand deep. Most of the good DOOM ports let you launch with a specific complevel flag set, so you can enforce the right restrictions to get the intended experience.
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Oct 22, 2022 17:31
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Is there any way to play doom wads via retro arch on my series x?
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Oct 22, 2022 17:35
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Larry Parrish posted:isn't the entire point of the modern ultrafast SSDs that you don't, in fact, need to store a bunch of poo poo in memory. Nvme SSDs kick rear end and can compete with DDR4 on bandwidth, but they have much higher latency (ms vs ns) and so aren't a replacement for a big pool of RAM. At the end of the day they're still block storage devices optimized for bulk throughput rather than fast random access. If you have 16.6ms to render your frame and need to hit the SSD to do it, chances are good that frame arrives late.
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Oct 22, 2022 17:38
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Feels Villeneuve posted:I think that's because Dwarf Fortress and GZDoom were coded by amateurs, some of whom had brain problems. Like I've had GZDoom drop frames on a modern computer on vanilla levels There are a few reasons GZDoom has lower performance than, say, Boom or whatever, but this isn't a Doom modding thread so I'll spare the technical poo poo, but the usual reason with those levels with tons of monsters, basically, is that all the extra modding stuff means GZDoom has to do a lot more processing for every object in the world every frame. Even if it's not really doing anything more fancy than vanilla. Bit of a nature-of-the-beast thing.
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Oct 22, 2022 17:38
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Larry Parrish posted:isn't the entire point of the modern ultrafast SSDs that you don't, in fact, need to store a bunch of poo poo in memory. but software developers always lag behind hardware capabilities by a few years to an extremely long amount of time. game developers are in a weird place where some of them are gods who learn a console inside out and can make amazing poo poo and other ones just release turds that barely run even 7 years into a generation It certainly helps, and I do remember a goon on here who worked for a University doing scientific research built a system in the very early SSD days that had like 512 gigs of proper RAM and a further 1.5 terabytes of SSDs in a RAID 0 that were exclusively used as virtual RAM for the purpose of churning through some absolute monster data. That said, it's not something you can completely bypass, even if you reserve some space for swap storage. The main point of RAM is for temporary calculations that are done very quickly. This is pretty important since even for HDMI 2.0, the 4K60 signal spewing out from your Xbox is doing so at around 18 gigabits per second, and as you can imagine generating information that quickly requires some pretty fast RAM to put together the actual data going out. Hell, the "wrong RAM" in the Xbox One (DDR3) is still faster in raw transfer speed than the PS5's SSD. RAM requirements also don't necessarily correspond to the game's installation data. Again going back to Dwarf Fortress, the base game is only a few megabytes in size on your hard drive, but the game can generate worlds that use 600-700 megs of RAM. So in that sense your hard drive's speed doesn't really have an impact on how DF performs, and just because a game is, say, 1 gigabyte in size, you can't just create a RAM virtual disk, punt the game there, and declare you don't need any more RAM for the game, it still needs the "normal" RAM requirement on top of that to do all of its calculations and normal RAM stuff. American McGay posted:Alluded to by who…? You? The Surgeon Simulator devs? People who are browsing Steam game pages and are starting to see the "Minimum Requirements" RAM number roll over into double digits. Some of them might be pretending to be surgeons at the hospital where they work, I don't know. Anyway here's Digital Foundry discussing it in greater detail according to the multiple devs they've heard from. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yKJsDoysEM&t=4257s Roughly it sounds like Series X games are more accurately "8gb + 8gb" games instead of 16gb games, so the extra RAM in the Series X can only really be leveraged for "more pixels" and not much else.
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Oct 22, 2022 17:57
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SilkyP posted:Is there any way to play doom wads via retro arch on my series x? Actually from quick googling it looks like yes, there's a port of PrBoom to libretro so poke around for that.
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Oct 22, 2022 17:59
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that sounds like a lot of nerd words to say 'actually it's on Microsoft to overpower the consoles so much that developers refusal to spend time and money actually programming their game well still results in acceptable performance'
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Oct 22, 2022 18:11
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Digiturd Floundry
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Oct 22, 2022 18:17
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univbee posted:The main issue with RAM isn't so much the graphics as it is what's happening under the hood it's the graphics op Some real world numbers of how memory is split between textures and audio samples vs actual game logic in titles other than Dwarf Fortress (for which even the Switch has enough memory to handle apparently) would be appreciated. Just lol at the prospect that any console game has complex enough simulation/physics/whatever logic that 8 GB of RAM wouldn't be enough. Even during PS3 gen somes devs preferred the 360's unified memory setup because they were not restricted to the 256 + 256 RAM/VRAM split and wanted more than 256 MB for textures.
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Oct 22, 2022 18:22
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hanyolo posted:Yeah they got me with that for stellaris, put the base game on gamepass and then I enjoyed it so bought all the DLC Did they bring over the controller support for the Pc version? I’m looking at the steam page and it doesn’t mention it.
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Oct 22, 2022 18:26
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univbee posted:Actually from quick googling it looks like yes, there's a port of PrBoom to libretro so poke around for that. Thanks!
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Oct 22, 2022 18:26
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univbee posted:It certainly helps, and I do remember a goon on here who worked for a University doing scientific research built a system in the very early SSD days that had like 512 gigs of proper RAM and a further 1.5 terabytes of SSDs in a RAID 0 that were exclusively used as virtual RAM for the purpose of churning through some absolute monster data. Flash is an order of magnitude slower than memory in terms of both bandwidth and latency. Flash is great for big data/hpc/ml workloads because latency doesn’t really matter, and the bandwidth is generally sufficient to saturate the CPUs for the type of work being done. The goal is to churn through as much as possible as quickly as possible to get to the next iteration or free the shared resources for another batch job or get actionable data back faster. But things like algorithmic trading where latency is super critical use in memory DBs because you can’t beat the latency of memory. In the Zen 2 there are PCIe lanes hanging directly off the CPU for GPU connectivity and the memory bus is also directly connected to the CPU. But the storage devices hang off of the Platform Controller Hub on a shared bus with a controller in between. So there’s already some limiting factors in place. And then NVMe devices aren’t directly accessed like memory, they still have to adhere to block device semantics which means the NVMe device also has a controller that manages the translation between the disk “geometry” that it presents to the OS and the actual location of data in flash cells. That controller also introduces latency and limits bandwidth. So yea, flash is very cool and it does enable a lot of things that weren’t possible with spinning disk like asset streaming in the background to pre-load and unload assets in memory as the player moves around to present a seamless open world, but that’s also a lot harder than just loading an entire level into memory and the type of game you’re building has to work with that model.
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Oct 22, 2022 19:03
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Storm One posted:Just lol at the prospect that any console game has complex enough simulation/physics/whatever logic that 8 GB of RAM wouldn't be enough. 
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Oct 22, 2022 19:16
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I have it on good authority it's because Series S has too little of the RAM, and the wrong type too.
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Oct 22, 2022 19:22
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Storm One posted:it's the graphics op I'm actually curious enough that I'm digging around. It's tough to get raw figures on the console side because developing for them is considerably more limited and everyone involved is typically NDA'ed up to their eyeballs. I learned a few odds and ends from a close friend of mine who did dev work for a few studios and worked on a few console games, but he got out of the meat grinder that was game dev over a decade ago. On the PC side there are a few interesting extremes, as some games do have semi-official options that let you go a little more hog wild than the base game normally allows for and shed some light on a few points of interest. Before getting into the weeds, Windows for gaming has always been a bit unique. 3D graphics cards have their own memory (and while shared APU setups exist, it's not the game devs who are leveraging your system resources in a precise way like they do on console), and Windows also very specifically does virtual memory where it uses your hard drive as "RAM". It's done this since at least Windows 3.1 (probably longer) and it was one of the big issues with Vista at launch, because 512 megs (MS's "minimum" they were cornered into by OEMs) is way too little RAM to use it but it still technically "worked" because your hard drive could work as RAM so it wouldn't crash, just be dogshit slow. And doing end user memory tests can be tricky because ever since Vista, apps typically gobble up any RAM they can get their hands on if it's not otherwise doing anything and the app has a task it can do. I remember a long time ago there id released a few extra maps that combined hub areas from the game (normally interconnected maps with load screens) into a sort of single cohesive super-map for multiplayer. I think you needed 32 megs of RAM to run it (Quake 2 itself only needed half that) and it was intended for 64-player deathmatch. In a more modern sense the game that stuck out for me was Galactic Civilization III because there are hard numbers on the RAM used for different map sizes.  Basically you can create a "ludicrous" game map size and when the game does all the pathfinding required in the later stages of the game across almost 650k tiles it really hits RAM (and CPU cores) hard. You start having stability issues if you don't have the amount of real RAM listed on the chart for the game size you're running (slowdowns from hard drive swap space as well as possible crashes). If I understand correctly, with Microsoft's current rules with the Series X|S distinctions, a similar turn-based strategy game on Xbox Series wouldn't be allowed to have an "unlocked" larger map size on Series X that used more than the pool the Series S could access.
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Oct 22, 2022 19:29
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John F Bennett posted:Medieval Dynasty was just updated to run at 60 fps. Just tried this out, must be the worst 60fps update I've ever seen. It's somehow less smooth than Plague Tale which runs at 40fps, and the pop-in increased by a lot. It also just looks bad now.
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Oct 22, 2022 19:31
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univbee posted:If I understand correctly, with Microsoft's current rules with the Series X|S distinctions, a similar turn-based strategy game on Xbox Series wouldn't be allowed to have an "unlocked" larger map size on Series X that used more than the pool the Series S could access. Definitely, that's not my point of contention. But once again a simulation-heavy PC game was the example of memory constraints on "real" gameplay. The objection is that even AAA sandoxy console games like GTA or Just Cause or Death Stranding aren't complex to the point of spending the majority of available memory on "gameplay" stuff rather than assets. That's where I'd like to see some figures of just how those 8 GB of PS4/Xbone RAM were spent, I'd bet in most cases much less than a third of total memory is used for the game itself, the bulk is for textures/audio.
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Oct 22, 2022 20:02
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Storm One posted:Definitely, that's not my point of contention. But once again a simulation-heavy PC game was the example of memory constraints on "real" gameplay. GTA5 is a PS3/360 game, so we know that it does just fine within 256MB of non-graphics system RAM, I'd bet it's total heap size is under 175MB!
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Oct 22, 2022 20:25
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I just finished Modern Warfare 2, the one that was released in 2022 and not 2009, and I thought it was the best Call of Duty campaign since Infinite Warfare or Black Ops 2. Really, really enjoyed it. The last five minutes were pretty bad, though, and felt like it could have been something neat but they didn't flesh it out like they should have. Most of the non-standard-shooty parts go on for a bit too long but not enough that it bothered me much. Everything else was great and there's a good variety throughout the campaign.
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Oct 22, 2022 20:39
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John F Bennett posted:Hell yeah! My favorite part of this gen is that they're bringing over strategy and sims that were traditionally PC only. I'd really like for them to start allowing mouse + kb support for these games getting ported over though. It's nice you can play them with a controller but M+KB is still better.
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Oct 22, 2022 20:40
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Thom12255 posted:I'd really like for them to start allowing mouse + kb support for these games getting ported over though. It's nice you can play them with a controller but M+KB is still better. It's just hard to lounge on the couch with M+KB, and couch lounging is like the main attraction of console gaming.
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Oct 22, 2022 21:10
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John F Bennett posted:It's just hard to lounge on the couch with M+KB, and couch lounging is like the main attraction of console gaming. I couch game on PC and have a cheap wireless handheld M+KB doohickey that's good enough for menu driven games. It's a nice option to have
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Oct 22, 2022 21:16
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The Series S needs some kind of RAM expansion pack like the N64 did.  Thom12255 posted:I'd really like for them to start allowing mouse + kb support for these games getting ported over though. It's nice you can play them with a controller but M+KB is still better. They've allowed KB+M support for awhile now, just has a limited selection: https://www.trueachievements.com/keyboard-and-mouse-support/games There's even a licenced for Xbox KB+M!
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Oct 22, 2022 21:35
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Fanatic posted:There's even a licenced for Xbox KB+M!  They must be insane lmao
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Oct 22, 2022 21:37
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I thought controller chat was boring but I hadn't yet seen RAM chat.
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Oct 22, 2022 21:49
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1glitch0 posted:I thought controller chat was boring but I hadn't yet seen RAM chat. I hear ya. Now that the Xbox is getting persona games they could at least talk about anime tiddies.
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Oct 22, 2022 22:03
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That's a good rear end deal. https://twitter.com/Wario64/status/1583871338019635202?t=qS1QT_yeEmWQolch67y12A&s=19
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Oct 22, 2022 22:14
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Wiltsghost posted:That's a good rear end deal. No its not. It has the wrong ram and is holding a generation back.
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Oct 22, 2022 22:18
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Surgeon Simulator devs HATE this great bargain!
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Oct 22, 2022 22:18
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lmao right
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Oct 22, 2022 22:21
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Wiltsghost posted:That's a good rear end deal. Yeah does look like a pretty good garage storage system for that price.
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Oct 22, 2022 22:27
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| # ? May 24, 2024 02:23 |
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American McGay posted:Digiturd Floundry
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Oct 22, 2022 22:51
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