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Aphrodite posted:Yeah and that's important to remember since that deck contains Hardened Scales and a couple of other ways to put extra +1/+1 counters on cast. Don't know why my guy wasn't using the alt commander, she's WAY stronger, right out of thr box. Real Shorikai energy.
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Oct 24, 2022 14:41
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DontMockMySmock posted:Kurieg and LGD are correct. First Tyrannic War does not say anything about setting the value of X, only about adding extra +1/+1 counters. The Spore Chimney ability doesn't care about +1/+1 counters, it only cares about what X is, and since Sporocyst wasn't cast, X is 0. I'll admit i was thinking about wring at first myself, till I went looking for some creatures to break it with and saw a few where X didn't correlate to +1/+1 counters and it clicked. That said Walking Ballista is still a really fun one to drop with it.
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Oct 24, 2022 14:49
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I'm running hurricane with the genestealer magus and that's always a fun way to end a game.
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Oct 24, 2022 16:10
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Can I get a sanity check on this spirit tribal deck. It feels like it does game actions but doesn't present a very compelling win-con. I just I could go into stax but that just slows everyone else down I would prefer to be more proactive.
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Oct 25, 2022 17:37
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I'm trying to make my first commander deck and I am obsessed with the idea of using nicol bolas ravager as the commander haha (love him in Arena where I've been playing for the past few years). Unfortunately I am on a budget and also playing with a fairly casual group so based on a bunch of research I came up with this amass/planeswalker deck https://www.moxfield.com/decks/TG9FeAcHkEiBApaqWzB6LQ There are two house-rules in place: No deck searching. You start the game by picking 3 basic lands then shuffling up and drawing 4 cards. I have not yet finished tuning the lands (besides the slightly low # based on the houserule), just looking for advice on the main deck since I am not super familiar with cards that are out there. Any help would be really great. e: some of the expensive cards (Lili, top, arena) I already have. ChiTownEddie fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Oct 25, 2022 |
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Oct 25, 2022 18:19
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MasterBuilder posted:Can I get a sanity check on this spirit tribal deck. It feels like it does game actions but doesn't present a very compelling win-con. I just I could go into stax but that just slows everyone else down I would prefer to be more proactive. Would it be worth cutting haru-onna and running Brago as the commander instead of Amareth? You're only running the one green card anyway and Brago seems like he'd do more for you than a 6 cmc dragon that has conditional card draw EDIT: definitely if you're running other stuff like reality acid that abuses leave/enter the battlefield effects. I'd probably run more card draw effects like rhystic and mystic remora if you have them, verity circle is an option if you don't. If you need more removal I'd run oblivion ring type effects rather than stuff like Nahiri's binding. ChiTownEddie posted:I'm trying to make my first commander deck and I am obsessed with the idea of using nicol bolas ravager as the commander haha (love him in Arena where I've been playing for the past few years). Are you intentionally limiting yourself to only stuff after Amonkhet block or just going for a zombies/eternals theme? If so cool, otherwise you've got quite a few somewhat low power, high mana creatures there like invading manticore which isn't doing a lot for you for 6 mana. If you're going for zombie tribal, diregraf colossus would be good, other lords like cemetary reaper, lord of the accursed, and undead warchief. Undead augur would be good for card draw. If I were you I'd run a lot more smaller, lower cmc zombies and cards to generate a continuous supply of zombie tokens, and cut most of the walkers and other spells, but if you want to run all the nicol bolases that's cool too. Wurzag fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Oct 25, 2022 |
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Oct 25, 2022 19:23
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MasterBuilder posted:Can I get a sanity check on this spirit tribal deck. It feels like it does game actions but doesn't present a very compelling win-con. I just I could go into stax but that just slows everyone else down I would prefer to be more proactive. The problems here are manifold: • Your deck, as stated, doesn't have a wincon. You need to start there and work backwards. • Your commander is expensive and doesn't do anything. Why are you using it? It doesn't even fit the stated theme of "Spirit Tribal". • Your mana costs are relatively high and your manabase doesn't support that? Why are you running tapped lands and bounce lands in a mana hungry deck? There's more to tweak after that, but you need to iron out the basics before we even look at specific card swaps. I'm not trying to beat you up, but this is these are the basic sort of questions that come up whenever anyone posts a deck: • How do you plan to win? • How does your commander support that? • How do you pay for it? • How do you prevent your opponents from winning/stopping you?
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Oct 25, 2022 19:39
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Wurzag posted:Are you intentionally limiting yourself to only stuff after Amonkhet block or just going for a zombies/eternals theme? If so cool, otherwise you've got quite a few somewhat low power, high mana creatures there like invading manticore which isn't doing a lot for you for 6 mana. If you're going for zombie tribal, diregraf colossus would be good, other lords like cemetary reaper, lord of the accursed, and undead warchief. Undead augur would be good for card draw. If I were you I'd run a lot more smaller, lower cmc zombies and cards to generate a continuous supply of zombie tokens, and cut most of the walkers and other spells, but if you want to run all the nicol bolases that's cool too. Cool, I haven't heard of most of those cards, shifting away from...every amass card would probably be better so I'll check that out.
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Oct 25, 2022 20:02
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Yeah that's fair and I know it's bad. I have a soft spot for spirits and the deck is from the kaldheim commander precon plus the what was in the pile of cards on hand, so no mystic remoras or studies and a less than optimal mana base. The splash for green was the attempt to get etb card draw while sticking with the spirit theme. But putting that aside for a second. I've looked at a lot of spirits decks and none of the tribal decks seem to have a strong win con. So is there one? Or should I just accept that either I cut the tribal or accept that it's not going to win often.
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Oct 25, 2022 20:30
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The win condition of any tribal Aggro deck is a force multiplier that allows you to actually kill your opponents. You have to deal roughly 120 damage to the table to win, in order to accomplish that you’ll need to be slamming multiple lords and anthems into play, you need to counter your opponents board wipes, and you need to use bullshit annoying spirits to tap down your opponents blockers. I would start by simply making it a spirit/flying creature tribal hybrid deck, to unlock a much larger concentration of creature buff effects. All the best spirits have flying so you lose nothing. Typically what you want to doing with any tribal deck is leaning into “the thing”. Figure out what it is you like about spirits (they all fly! They have disruptive abilities! They are a great tempo tribe that focuses on keeping your opponents subdued!) and then only running the spirits that do those things, and then shaving the bad ones for stronger support cards like ramp and spot removal and interaction that protects your board from getting wiped. I would also just, uh, not run green. There are a lot of really good UW Spirit commanders.
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Oct 25, 2022 20:36
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MasterBuilder posted:Yeah that's fair and I know it's bad. I have a soft spot for spirits and the deck is from the kaldheim commander precon plus the what was in the pile of cards on hand, so no mystic remoras or studies and a less than optimal mana base. The splash for green was the attempt to get etb card draw while sticking with the spirit theme. It sounds like you’re expecting your wincon to be a “normal” one, i.e. combat. But even with that being the case, you should still try to build towards combat if that’s the expectation. At minimum you might want to look at commanders who give you combat advantages/reward you for turning your dudes sideways. At the moment you commander is giving you 1) the color identity of the deck, which seems like you might not need it to be Bant specifically anyway, and 2) a mediocre generic tribal ability. I feel like if you start with “I want to win via combat” and you pick a commander who does that for your spirits, then your deck with already be better.
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Oct 25, 2022 20:40
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White now has an overrun-type effect with Akroma's Will. You're in blue so you have plenty of ways to protect your commander and your board to set up for this as well as ways to tutor for a sorcery. When I had a Brago deck I got bored of all my wincons being bounce everyone's permanents and hope they give up, so I ran Inquisitor Exarch and Recruiter of the Guard. e: You can also use white creatures that gain life on creatures ETB and Aetherflux reservoir, and Brago also makes it easy to draw your whole deck then Thassa's Oracle
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Oct 25, 2022 20:47
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Remember: Casting Armageddon with a board full of flying 4/4s is a totally acceptable win condition and the only people who don’t scoop to that are curmudgeonly graybeards who don’t even like playing EDH anymore (and probably have really grubby sleeves!!!)
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Oct 25, 2022 20:49
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ChiTownEddie posted:Cool, I haven't heard of most of those cards, shifting away from...every amass card would probably be better so I'll check that out. If you keep Amass and all those planeswalkers, some Proliferate might be worth a look. Deepglow Skate is always fun, especially if you can flicker it. Displacer Kitten could both do that, and flicker your planeswalkers.
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Oct 25, 2022 20:57
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Starlight Spectacular from Unfinity can put out a lot of damage if you're able to consistently have four or more creatures on the battlefield (note that it counts all your creatures, not just the ones you swing with, so any that are staying back to block or for utility can go at the start of the parade).
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Oct 25, 2022 20:57
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Amass is a TERRIBLE mechanic in commander, because you’re putting all of your eggs into an increasingly vulnerable basket. You chain together 3-4 amass spells and then one of your three opponents just bounces or kills it and you spent all your mana and resources playing over costed versions of basic spells to get a free skeleton out of it that died before it could do anything. It doesn’t matter if it’s a 12/12, it’s never gonna accomplish anything. I mean, maybe you’re playgroup is super soft, considering your house rules it might not be an issue, but in general I just can’t see an Amass themed deck winning many games at anything beyond the absolute lowest “sub-Precon”’ level tables.
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Oct 25, 2022 21:36
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That makes sense. We're pretty soft but not quite that bad. I shifted the deck more towards normal zombies, although there still is some amass as a way of creating an extra token.
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Oct 25, 2022 21:44
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MasterBuilder posted:Yeah that's fair and I know it's bad. I have a soft spot for spirits and the deck is from the kaldheim commander precon plus the what was in the pile of cards on hand, so no mystic remoras or studies and a less than optimal mana base. The splash for green was the attempt to get etb card draw while sticking with the spirit theme. So I was in the same spot as you with the Kaldheim precon, I even reached out to the thread for some assistance and after playing a bunch of games I’ve made some tweaks since then: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/3-Bw4l6c5EWkpORbM08irg I’m using Kykar as a spirit token generator, and adding red gives a bunch more options to deal damage: - Impact Tremors/Goblin Bombardment plus Kindred Charge or Myojin of Blooming Dawn (more of a fun/less serious option) - Since Kykar can sac spirits for mana, multi target fireballs like Jaya’s Immolating Inferno or Comet Storm can finish people off after an attack or either of the above spells - Legion Loyalty works with any of the above too, I don’t run it because it’s expensive as balls - Jeskai Ascendancy plus Lorehold Apprentice is fun when it goes off with cantrips The deck’s certainly not amazing but it’s decently interactive and can win in ways that aren’t just “cast a lot of spirits and attack”
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Oct 25, 2022 21:57
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ChiTownEddie posted:I'm trying to make my first commander deck and I am obsessed with the idea of using nicol bolas ravager as the commander haha (love him in Arena where I've been playing for the past few years). I thought this was an interesting thought experiment to build something for this weird format. I threw together a first pass. Headed out the door to a concert, but take a look: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/ojoeHu58fEu1sh9byqnAUg I limited myself to: • Cards $5 or less (except Bolas) • No searching • Nothing that should make someone flip the table and walk away. Honestly, I think it would be an interesting thing to do an in-house league with.
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Oct 25, 2022 22:00
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Koopa Kid posted:So I was in the same spot as you with the Kaldheim precon, I even reached out to the thread for some assistance and after playing a bunch of games I’ve made some tweaks since then: Funnily enough in one of my desperate moments for a spirit with ETB triggers I came across returned spiritcaller and thought, with walk the aeons, brago and spiritcaller I can have infinite turns. why shouldn't I try and stretch this wafer thin mana base even further. And Morophon is a shapeshifter so technically he's also a spirit.
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Oct 25, 2022 22:37
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MasterBuilder posted:Funnily enough in one of my desperate moments for a spirit with ETB triggers I came across returned spiritcaller and thought, with walk the aeons, brago and spiritcaller I can have infinite turns. why shouldn't I try and stretch this wafer thin mana base even further. And Morophon is a shapeshifter so technically he's also a spirit. Yeah in a previous build I was trying to do a lot more graveyard stuff and had the Pastcaller in there too, red opens up a lot of spellsy stuff in the tribe for sure
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Oct 25, 2022 23:53
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Toshimo posted:I thought this was an interesting thought experiment to build something for this weird format. I threw together a first pass. Headed out the door to a concert, but take a look: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/ojoeHu58fEu1sh9byqnAUg I want to wheel back to this because there's a lot to unpack with the "3 basics/4 cards" format: • With no searching, card selection/draw is king. Looting is fantastic. That's why I dropped a whole surveil subtheme in there (and for those who missed it, they just oracle updated like 25 cards to retroactively have surveil). • 3 CMC rocks aren't really bad now, in fact, they are pretty good because often there's not much practical difference between dropping a signet and a 3-cost rock, if you start at 3 mana. However, the 3-drop rocks should make 2 mana. Relic, Powerstone, etc. • HOWEVER, especially if you are going land-light, suddenly the Borderposts become S-tier rocks. Turn 1 tapping and bouncing a land to drop a borderpost and then re-dropping that land is clutch. Even better than a karoo. • Discard, which is usually terrible, take a big value upgrade as well. Dropping a land T1 into Syphon Mind (or just hit a T1 Disinformation Campaign, no land needed, then surveil and replay it turn 2) is miles ahead when everyone else has 2-4 cards in hand. This means Bolas himself is way better than usual in this format. • Relevant 3-drop instants, especially card draw shot way way up, too. Shadow prophecy is absolutely what you want to be hitting T1 before you draw. I'd even consider the Thirsts. • Players are going to empty their hands fast (or are going to be doing very badly). In a budget format, wheels and such are going to be sparse (I mean, honestly, I don't expect your playgroup to have the dude on mono-black who drops Necropotence T1, which if you weren't playing budget lists, is obviously the first thing people should be doing). So, stuff like Asylum Visitor or Anje's Ravager suddenly become Real Relevant. • Amass isn't great, but it's not terrible. Dropping tokens every turn to chump block for your planeswalkers is important, and a lot of the better token generators aren't budget friendly, so Dreadhorde Invasion and the like start to Do Work. • The mana base is much easier to build on a budget because you can basically drop in all the tainted/castle/filter/buddy/check/slow lands and there's no penalty because you already have all your colors in basics. This format probably breaks immediately without budget constraints, but it was fun to look for things from a very different perspective.
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Oct 26, 2022 05:30
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Toshimo posted:I want to wheel back to this because there's a lot to unpack with the "3 basics/4 cards" format: I don't think the lands start in play. I think you get three basics in hand so you have a reasonable chance at having a playable hand to start. This is in regards to your mana rock comment. E: Applies to the border post assessment too.
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Oct 26, 2022 05:39
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Batterypowered7 posted:I don't think the lands start in play. I think you get three basics in hand so you have a reasonable chance at having a playable hand to start. This is in regards to your mana rock comment. Ah, wow. I misunderstood. Yeah, that's just... a whole different animal. Oh, well.
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Oct 26, 2022 05:51
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Hmn... I was leaning toward Birgi for my mono-color cEDH decks idea, but I'm thinking maybe Magda would be better? I feel like she can get under some stax pieces since you can crack treasures to go fetch things. What do you guys think?
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Oct 26, 2022 06:12
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Batterypowered7 posted:Hmn... I was leaning toward Birgi for my mono-color cEDH decks idea, but I'm thinking maybe Magda would be better? I feel like she can get under some stax pieces since you can crack treasures to go fetch things. What do you guys think? Em ry! Em ry! EM ry! EM RY!
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Oct 26, 2022 06:47
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Batterypowered7 posted:Hmn... I was leaning toward Birgi for my mono-color cEDH decks idea, but I'm thinking maybe Magda would be better? I feel like she can get under some stax pieces since you can crack treasures to go fetch things. What do you guys think? Birgi doesn’t do anything, she’s not a win condition and needs lots of other stuff to go right for her to have an impact, meanwhile Magda has cleared gigantic Japanese & western cEDH tournaments
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Oct 26, 2022 07:01
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As someone who plays Magda, the combo is very potent and extremely versatile... but it's also very complex and difficult to pilot*. I haven't played in months and picking the deck up again intimidates me. It's got some of the most complicated combo lines of any established deck in cEDH, short of probably Gitrog Monster, except you are running a much weaker card base due to being monocolor as well as needing to run a whole bunch of cards that do absolutely nothing if the commander isn't out (as well as a bunch of cards that exist merely to tap your dwarves without having to be on the combat step). It's a very commander-focused deck-- you pretty much need Magda to pop off, but as long as you have got her on board, that can happen very, very quickly. It's actually why the deck runs a lot of damage-based removal-- it's almost exclusively to deal with Drannith Magistrate and Opposition Agent lol. *The main combo line isn't so bad, but wincon lines when you're trying to get under some types of stax and/or trying to win at instant speed can get pretty dense. Otherwise you're just slamming Magda down with some dwarves, getting the pieces to go infinite and then just grab Grinding Station or something. It does get pretty spicy though, you can totally just throw down Maskwood Nexus and Utvara Hellkite and just go ham with a ton of 6/6 dragons too. Definitely playtest online first to make sure it's something you'll enjoy before getting invested, but there's definitely an element of joy in winning games with a deck where you're actually happy to see a card like Dwarven Trader. Framboise fucked around with this message at 11:51 on Oct 26, 2022 |
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Oct 26, 2022 11:48
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It’s worth pointing out that the Magda shell is separate from the win packages, some packages will work MUCH MUCH better depending on your specific meta. If you wanna play Magda, I’d really suggest researching the different finishing moves and picking the one that works best for your playgroup.
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Oct 26, 2022 11:58
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Hmn... I'm known to sequence my plays in a myriad of God awful ways. Maybe I should just do Godo and go brrrrr instead.
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Oct 26, 2022 12:36
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Godo is definitely the deck I'd recommend-- it's such a good deck. But if you ever find Godo to be too linear or just aren't having fun with it, you know where to look.
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Oct 26, 2022 13:41
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Godo kicks rear end. He's such a dumb, fun deck to play.
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Oct 26, 2022 13:49
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I liked the Dargo/Jeska mono-R deck also, it's got a weird and very fast combo line, but also has the cool possibility of attacking with Dargo, using Jeska to triple damage, and delete players one at a time.
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Oct 26, 2022 16:17
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I'm never gonna stop laughing at how Jeska got the OK for Commander Legends. She does so much busted poo poo as a combo piece and just "oh, my commander has 7 power-- nope, 21, you're dead btw"
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Oct 26, 2022 16:54
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Framboise posted:I'm never gonna stop laughing at how Jeska got the OK for Commander Legends. She does so much busted poo poo as a combo piece and just "oh, my commander has 7 power-- nope, 21, you're dead btw" She willed herself into being approved.
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Oct 26, 2022 16:55
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@Toshimo You thinking that the one's Goon's friends all started with three basics in play reminded me of the card game The Spoils. That was a fun Magic-like that just never went anywhere, even after the attempted revival.
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Oct 26, 2022 17:38
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I am so stoked to build Ashnod the Uncaring and I'm finding a shitload of dumb cards to use for this jankristocrats idea
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Oct 26, 2022 18:42
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Heath posted:I am so stoked to build Ashnod the Uncaring and I'm finding a shitload of dumb cards to use for this jankristocrats idea Cat oven. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/PZ5bZo4_QEiZn4qtSpZGdQ Ashnod + Unwinding Clock + Cauldron Familiar + Witch's Oven is the resurrection of a gloriously obnoxious deck. Also works with Academy manufactor in place of Ashnod.
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Oct 26, 2022 18:45
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pseudanonymous posted:Cat oven. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/PZ5bZo4_QEiZn4qtSpZGdQ Why not add asmo to tutor cookbook and the oval chase daredevil to get a repeatable card to discard?
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Oct 26, 2022 19:20
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Tawnos is gonna be the next time sieve goat, I'm calling it
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Oct 26, 2022 20:08
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