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Dirk the Average posted:I love the way war appears to work in this game. It's pretty much everything I've ever wanted from a Paradox game - I hate micromanaging stacks during wars. Should be interesting to see how everything shakes out in the actual game. Same, I mostly played Old World Blues mod in HOI4 for the story, and I went with Grand Battleplan and let the AI actually do the fighting. Looks like that's the default (and only) choice in Vicky 3 which has pissed off a lot of wargamers, which I'm fine with they already have every other Paradox mapgame. Even this guy missing some stuff it's still a good demo, and I'm fully hype! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHdggAaBMRo Really looking forward to nation gardening! TwoQuestions fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Oct 24, 2022 |
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Oct 24, 2022 16:23
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean I don’t think it’s dumbed down it just kind of takes your hand out of war and makes it much less in your control. Which some people like I guess but I prefer to control what happens in war and the economy And that's absolutely fair. Different people want different things out of games. I feel like the reduced control will help the AI to compete better and am more than happy with the tradeoff of having less control over the war. You might prefer to have more direct control over the war, especially if it allows you to punch way above your weight by strategically maneuvering your troops to beat an otherwise superior force. They're different ways to play the game and neither one is more correct than the other.
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Oct 24, 2022 16:24
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Dirk the Average posted:Fantastic! And I know your comment is in jest, but a "dumbed down" system isn't a bad thing here because the AI also has to use the system. I love the idea of focusing on the big-picture economic management and diplomatic maneuvering while the generals do the actual fighting for me. It's just so much better than needing to individually move every single army to the point where my wrist starts to hurt after a couple of hours of playing.  I am very excited for this change. I think an inventory system ala HOI4 would be fun in the future but trust Wiz to carry his vision.
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Oct 24, 2022 16:28
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The war change is fine by me, there's enough other Paradox games to micro in. But I fully back the position of the Little Mans On The Map interest group.
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Oct 24, 2022 16:34
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Oct 24, 2022 16:40
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I love Paradox games but I have never played a Victoria title. Are there any Victoria 3 tutorial series out yet? I'd like to get a head start before diving in tomorrow.
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Oct 24, 2022 16:48
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean I don’t think it’s dumbed down it just kind of takes your hand out of war and makes it much less in your control. Which some people like I guess but I prefer to control what happens in war and the economy People ask why can't they control their units movements while in Victoria 3 they should be asking why can't they microcontrol their diplomats coctail party schedule and industrialists organizing factory layouts and supply chains.
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Oct 24, 2022 16:49
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DaysBefore posted:The war change is fine by me, there's enough other Paradox games to micro in. But I fully back the position of the Little Mans On The Map interest group. It looked like there were tiny armies with tiny guns fighting tiny battles on the map during today's stream. Cropping from the Texas uprising:  There could certainly be more tiny armies running around and I am hoping to see the appropriate level of trench hell later. The system itself seems like a good idea in a game that is framing war as an extension of your economy, instead of war as its own little separate system with a magic manpower pool or something like that. Merely the continuation of policy etc, very on-theme.
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Oct 24, 2022 16:50
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Popete posted:I love Paradox games but I have never played a Victoria title. Are there any Victoria 3 tutorial series out yet? I'd like to get a head start before diving in tomorrow. There are dedicated short tutorial videos on Paradox Grand Strategy channel. If you want to watch someone play and explain the GAME you should try Quill18 Victoria 3 Hudson Bay Company video.
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Oct 24, 2022 16:51
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Elendil004 posted:Also another LP from a guy I like, Stakuyi, he does longer stuff but cuts all the chaff. Yoink! I’ve been looking for more stuff like that for getting a feel of the mechanics and game. It’s crazy to think it’s coming out tomorrow after such a long time, I’d honestly forgotten about it until the last few weeks when the video started popping up.
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Oct 24, 2022 17:00
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Is there a pre-order/day 1 DLC?
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Oct 24, 2022 17:04
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Xerophyte posted:It looked like there were tiny armies with tiny guns fighting tiny battles on the map during today's stream. Cropping from the Texas uprising: The problem I'm having with this is that this game is set during the age of imperialism where war/expansion was pretty rampant. I'm interested in seeing new ideas of how to orchestrate that in game, but I think currently we have an unfinished product. I think if they did something like this, but had a hoi4 graphical representation the current implementation would be much more interesting. I think long term I would want my armies to really exist in the game, and instead of extrapolating war completely, theres some logic around where armies spawn and the player makes some decisions on how they conduct the war. I'm sure theres a middleground between "no war" where everyone who wants some control of the war is unhappy (i suspect this will tank the reviews of this game) and the other side of "unmanagemable boring sprite micro" that would drive many others away. The current system will probably ruin the game for many. Even still I'm very interested to play the game and learn for myself how it feels to play.
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Oct 24, 2022 17:06
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DaysBefore posted:Is there a pre-order/day 1 DLC? i......... think you get access to orchestrated music from vicky 2? not sure.
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Oct 24, 2022 17:09
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bunch of live streams just started: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9ZhYxdpgo4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKJ9c9Iv6rk
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Oct 24, 2022 17:11
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SnoochtotheNooch posted:The problem I'm having with this is that this game is set during the age of imperialism where war/expansion was pretty rampant. I'm interested in seeing new ideas of how to orchestrate that in game, but I think currently we have an unfinished product. I think if they did something like this, but had a hoi4 graphical representation the current implementation would be much more interesting. What the gently caress are you talking about?
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Oct 24, 2022 17:12
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cool av posted:i don’t think so. the AI in paradox games isn’t there to try to “win”. huh? players also don't play to win...
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Oct 24, 2022 17:12
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ilitarist posted:There are dedicated short tutorial videos on Paradox Grand Strategy channel. If you want to watch someone play and explain the GAME you should try Quill18 Victoria 3 Hudson Bay Company video. Thanks!
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Oct 24, 2022 17:13
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DaysBefore posted:Is there a pre-order/day 1 DLC? If you pre-order, you get a remastered copy of the Vic2 soundtrack, I'm not sure if the music is added to the in-game music player or if it's just as a seperate file though. If you buy the big expensive bundle where you pay to pre-order the first 3 DLCs or whatever, you also get some very small on-map models of famous American buildings on launch day.
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Oct 24, 2022 17:13
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SnoochtotheNooch posted:The current system will probably ruin the game for many.
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Oct 24, 2022 17:14
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Got my Fanatical steam key today and had some tiny hope it would let me play today. There's certainly been times in the past where I was somehow able to play early due to 3rd party sellers being weird.
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Oct 24, 2022 17:16
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karmicknight posted:What the gently caress are you talking about? There's a bunch of people who believe representing Victorian times in anything other than a wargame is misguided at best, and whitewashing a violent time at worst, and that anything important in history largely begins and ends with war and conflict.
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Oct 24, 2022 17:20
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The review embargo is up. Seems like largely positive scores.
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Oct 24, 2022 17:20
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SnoochtotheNooch posted:The problem I'm having with this is that this game is set during the age of imperialism where war/expansion was pretty rampant. I'm interested in seeing new ideas of how to orchestrate that in game, but I think currently we have an unfinished product. I think if they did something like this, but had a hoi4 graphical representation the current implementation would be much more interesting. From my understanding, there's an economic cost to having a standing army - not only do they require weapons, but there are also barracks that need to be built, as well as wages that need to be paid. And, of course, your soldiers are people, and people are your economy. Dead soldiers aren't consuming goods, and have to be replaced by workers who would otherwise be making you money. From a logistical perspective, I'm not 100% on the details, but it looks like generals are stationed in an area, and can then be deployed to a conflict. Presumably the travel time is constrained by infrastructure and/or your navy. So if you have far-flung colonial holdings, it might be worth investing in a local garrison, because getting troops from the mainland all the way out to the other side of the world is going to take a very long time.
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Oct 24, 2022 17:20
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karmicknight posted:What the gently caress are you talking about? Unsurprising a mod is trying to start poo poo in a thread for no reason lmao. what the gently caress are you talking about? AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:"Ruin" as in "not be what they want and they throw a fit about it". I'm on board with others that understand if people want that (that being "the ability to micromanage their units") in their games, but I want a GSG without it and am looking forward to how it works out for Vicky. I am also on board with desiring to see army mans moving around on the map instead of little bunkers. I figure it is something that will happen with enough demand. I look forward to it being included as part of a DLC and reddit melts down about being charged for seeing army mans move around on the map. Right, I have never played a GSG game this way so I am going to check it out before I make up my mind. To explain my previous post, I know a bunch of people already set on the side of the fence that no war is a bad change. SnoochtotheNooch fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Oct 24, 2022 |
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Oct 24, 2022 17:23
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SnoochtotheNooch posted:The problem I'm having with this is that this game is set during the age of imperialism where war/expansion was pretty rampant. I'm interested in seeing new ideas of how to orchestrate that in game, but I think currently we have an unfinished product. I think if they did something like this, but had a hoi4 graphical representation the current implementation would be much more interesting. Genuinely a little unsure what you’re saying because it feels like you’re contradicting yourself every so often as well as arguing against something that doesn’t exist in favor of something that also doesn’t exist, all for the sake of a demographic that you’re not actually part of but which you feel needs to be pre-emptively catered to in order to prevent otherwise inevitable negative reviews. Like, just to take your first paragraph, first you think the game needs to model war well because this is the age of imperialism. You argue that the current system is unfinished in that respect, incomplete. But then you say that something roughly like the current system but with a purely graphical cosmetic change would be much more interesting- which implies that the underlying system is actually fine and already models what you want, you just need it to look different? Also you are aware that it is actually possible for the player in V3 to make decisions about how to conduct the war, right?
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Oct 24, 2022 17:26
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Dirk the Average posted:From my understanding, there's an economic cost to having a standing army - not only do they require weapons, but there are also barracks that need to be built, as well as wages that need to be paid. And, of course, your soldiers are people, and people are your economy. Dead soldiers aren't consuming goods, and have to be replaced by workers who would otherwise be making you money. these are all good things that I don't dislike. Tomn posted:Genuinely a little unsure what you’re saying because it feels like you’re contradicting yourself every so often as well as arguing against something that doesn’t exist in favor of something that also doesn’t exist, all for the sake of a demographic that you’re not actually part of but which you feel needs to be pre-emptively catered to in order to prevent otherwise inevitable negative reviews. I explain an idea that I think would help the current system, one where armies exist on the map. By this I would mean like 120k troops assigned to a general, in lower egypt and 20k are represented in a eastern province, 20k in a central province, and 80k on a coastal province... Maybe my explanation sucks because I'm posting at work lol. The current implementation looks incomplete graphically, and it seems incomplete conceptually imo, idk how fun it will be to assign a general to an area and click a checkbox to select production method. That seems very barebones. I mean, surely its not a point of contention that paradox is going to change the war system in a dlc? That seems obvious. Second statement, I would say giving the player some kind of control over how each general uses those stacks, beyond production method, like, prioritizing a province with a lot of pops or industry. SnoochtotheNooch fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Oct 24, 2022 |
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Oct 24, 2022 17:27
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Personally I'm excited to make some choo choos.
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Oct 24, 2022 17:29
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TwoQuestions posted:There's a bunch of people who believe representing Victorian times in anything other than a wargame is misguided at best, and whitewashing a violent time at worst, and that anything important in history largely begins and ends with war and conflict. But like, nobody removed war from Victoria 3. There are still wars and combat and people dying. Tomn posted:Also you are aware that it is actually possible for the player in V3 to make decisions about how to conduct the war, right? This is overall where I feel these weird meandering hand-wringing about warfare seems stupid as gently caress. War happens and the player has levers to attempt to control it, but the movement on the ground isn't completely under your control.
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Oct 24, 2022 17:30
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Yeah, I'm actually kind of confused about this argument. There's plenty of war, just not a lot of generalship. Might as well claim that EU4 deprives of us the true horror of war by not having a Mount & Blade-style battle system.
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Oct 24, 2022 17:30
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Personnally Im glad that the current war system takes the emphasis off 1000 apm sick plays and on the economy in the economy sim GSG. Even the big war in this era (WW1) was famously where maneuvering troops was pointless and it was all about trying to grind your enemies down with attrition and the strength of your economy determined how much attrition you could take.
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Oct 24, 2022 17:33
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I really like having warfare as an extension of the economy/political systems rather than making it an entire half of the game disconnected from any of that. None of the other paradox games ever get close to managing to capture the feeling that winning wars can be -bad- for your country. The running tally of how much the war has cost you is great and it's also really nice to not have to stop paying attention to the entire rest of the game to sit there and micromanage units while your economy goes to poo poo unless you pause all the time. Esp great for multiplayer where otherwise any great power player would be screwed.
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Oct 24, 2022 17:38
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SnoochtotheNooch posted:I mean, surely its not a point of contention that paradox is going to change the war system in a dlc? That seems obvious. I envy the clairvoyance powers of people who can tell which mechanics will be reworked even before the release of the game. It's Arrival-level stuff.
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Oct 24, 2022 17:39
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TwoQuestions posted:There's a bunch of people who believe representing Victorian times in anything other than a wargame is misguided at best, and whitewashing a violent time at worst, and that anything important in history largely begins and ends with war and conflict. I don’t think this really works, it’s a game and a game does need a focus. Crusader kings is also set during incredibly violent times because all times are violent. But still puts its focus on character to give it its own flavor. Doesn’t mean it’s presenting the time as less warlike
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Oct 24, 2022 17:41
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ilitarist posted:I envy the clairvoyance powers of people who can tell which mechanics will be reworked even before the release of the game. It's Arrival-level stuff. Just to be clear, you're in agreement with my statement. 
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Oct 24, 2022 17:41
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I think we should wait til the game is out before deciding if the new war system is good or bad.
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Oct 24, 2022 17:46
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I don’t see what that would accomplish, so you think if you play it it will become something completely different?
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Oct 24, 2022 17:50
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Jazerus posted:that's how it is pronounced. he might have had a bit of the usual american vowel-blending in there i guess Well I hate it and my way is better.
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Oct 24, 2022 17:53
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its pronounce homo genie
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Oct 24, 2022 17:55
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Dammit, was hoping for midnight tonight. 
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Oct 24, 2022 17:56
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I should probably stop reading this thread because I can't afford the game right now on the other hand, I'm hyping myself up enough that a purchase is guaranteed!
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