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There’s a lot more of Eurasia/Africa to the south and east that we never see, and presumably the Americas are offscreen to the west somewhere now that Aman has been removed from the planet.
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Oct 9, 2022 12:18
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Yeah, despite how the films sort of make it feel, there is an absolutely sprawling continent to the south of Gondor with a formerly Gondorian but now contested lands near the mouth of the Anduin river. Its where the dude that Theoden gets to kill in open combat comes from. The size of the world is one of those things I grew to appreciate in the books, where there is in fact a much much larger world but there simply isn't a way for our heroes to really grasp it due to ongoing problems and its outside their scope mostly.
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Oct 9, 2022 12:42
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Alhazred posted:Do you really think he wouldn't come up with a way to gently caress that up too? he might but not if there's no near-peer powers around, we've seen he has no problem dominating orcs, men, and hobbits Barudak posted:I think the two other wizards he sent off on a wild goose chase would be not super pleased with him when he shows up. But yeah, he's really, really short sighted and petty and flips his poo poo when people don't recognize his greatness actually the blue wizards showed up 2600 years before Saruman and most likely owned Sauron's plans among mannish kingdoms there
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Oct 9, 2022 16:05
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indigi posted:he could of just ran away in the third option. go to the East or the other continent and build a new power base That was the whole plan with the Shire. And if he hosed up his domination of tiny, peaceful little hobbits, why would he do much better with the easterlings or southrons?
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Oct 9, 2022 19:36
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he did own the Shire though. Gandalf coming back and essentially freeing Grima is what did him in
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Oct 9, 2022 23:25
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A few fan world map ideas.   
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Oct 10, 2022 00:04
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 at that second mapIt bothers me a bit to be honest that the history of the various races is so centered on one continent. Even beyond concerns of representation it just goes against the supposed intent to make the world feel as lived-in as possible. The West is basically the sole theater of the entire history of the Elves, Dwarves, etc. and the focus of the Valar's fears and hopes, everything else gets, huuuuh, Men with some strange beasts?
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Oct 10, 2022 00:47
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it's supposed to be a cultural mythology. the saxons didn’t include stories about Australia or the Yucatán peninsula in their cosmology because it was beyond their scope
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Oct 10, 2022 00:56
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indigi posted:it's supposed to be a cultural mythology. the saxons didn’t include stories about Australia or the Yucatán peninsula in their cosmology because it was beyond their scope I knew someone was gonna reply that. That mythology-for-England goal was important to his creative process but at times it's pretty clearly in contradiction with the more rounded secondary world design.
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Oct 10, 2022 01:10
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like where
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Oct 10, 2022 03:23
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indigi posted:he might but not if there's no near-peer powers around, we've seen he has no problem dominating orcs, men, and hobbits He clearly has very big problems dominating hobbits and the orcs seems like they tolerate him because he's supported by Sauon.
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Oct 10, 2022 05:08
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Yeah Sauron has to recruit humans to be his actual occupation force and his control of the hobbits is limited and brewing to revolt before the 4 show
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Oct 10, 2022 06:47
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Saruman was always basically a hanger-on lackey to Sauron, the Starscream to his Megatron in multiple respects.
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Oct 10, 2022 07:09
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"Dad, can we read The Silmarillion next?" "No sweetheart, I love you too much."
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Oct 10, 2022 12:33
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Alhazred posted:He clearly has very big problems dominating hobbits and the orcs seems like they tolerate him because he's supported by Sauon. what problems did he have? none until Gandalf turned up Barudak posted:Yeah Sauron has to recruit humans to be his actual occupation force that's what Morgoth and Sauron did too
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Oct 10, 2022 13:26
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indigi posted:what problems did he have? none until Gandalf turned up He could barely keep the hobbits in line and when Frodo showed up they revolted and took him down pretty easy.
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Oct 10, 2022 14:16
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Alhazred posted:He could barely keep the hobbits in line and when Frodo showed up they revolted and took him down pretty easy. after Gandalf broke his staff and helped Theoden destroy his army yeah. and even then he was still in charge for six months
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Oct 10, 2022 14:26
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Saruman was still a Maia, still magical, and still had his voice. He also had a small paramilitary of men/goblins. The fact that he failed miserably against a peasant army of tiny fat people was shameful.
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Oct 10, 2022 14:29
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sure, sure
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Oct 10, 2022 14:33
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Saruman didn't really want to rule the shire as a new powerbase. He just wanted to destroy it as much as possibly to get back at Gandalf. The whole thing was petty revenge more or less
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Oct 10, 2022 15:46
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yes that's the definition of owning
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Oct 10, 2022 16:04
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He failed at that too though. In the end Gandalf felt pity towards Saruman, not anger.
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Oct 10, 2022 16:18
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and yet the shire was still owned
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Oct 10, 2022 16:19
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Zesty posted:A few fan world map ideas. Think Sauron should have worried about the 'Nid invasion from the east that's gonna eat everything
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Oct 10, 2022 18:04
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when is that map supposed to be set? post-LotR Mordor and Eriador are under Gondorian control
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Oct 10, 2022 18:13
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YaketySass posted:
To be fair a lot of the Elves didn't go west and the story just basically drops them. It's heavily implied that there are still Avari out there somewhere, but the Silmarillion and LOTR are only really concerned with the Eldar. I'd say that there are probably elves all over the world.
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Oct 10, 2022 22:09
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there's also dwarves east of Rhun who didn't really interact much with middle earth til the third age or later, and even then only scarcely
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Oct 10, 2022 22:33
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The people have spoken, there has been unanimous demand for the silmarillion as a bedtime story. Lets see if I can race them to passing out.
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Oct 11, 2022 02:14
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Barudak posted:The people have spoken, there has been unanimous demand for the silmarillion as a bedtime story. Lets see if I can race them to passing out. Please keep us updated. I really enjoy your accounts of how the story is received, and I'm doing a second listen-through of The Silmarillion audiobook now that I know ... well, some of the names. (It's going to take finding my paperback and reading it to get them all to stick.) Seriously, Theoden Khan is going to be with me for a while.
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Oct 11, 2022 12:22
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The Silmarillion strikes me as basically the rough draft of the plot points of what could be a pretty banger story.
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Oct 11, 2022 14:25
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The published Silmarillion is a combination of various draft and finished versions of three major stories (Beren & Luthien, Children of Hurin, Fall of Gondolin—the first two mostly finished, the third mostly draft) with a bunch of smaller side stories appended to supporting information in “annalistic” or schematic formats that Tolkien used to organize his own conceptions of these stories. The process of combination was extremely complex and cut across loads and loads of texts written at different times for various reasons, not all of which agree with each other or were even intended for publication. Basically it was a misguided but noble attempt by Christopher to realize his dead father’s incomplete life’s work as best he could. Douglas Kane’s book “Arda Reconstructed” goes through chapter by chapter comparing it to the primary sources in the History of Middle-earth books, trying to figure out where exactly everything in it came from.
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Oct 11, 2022 14:42
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it wasn't misguided
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Oct 11, 2022 19:28
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ya christopher owned and should be thought of as his father's partner in creating the whole legendarium. half it all came out of poo poo christopher first heard thru bedtime stories and wartime correspondence anyways
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Oct 12, 2022 01:19
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I’m glad he went with the flat world for The Silmarillion. I think the round cosmology (what he'd completed of it) isn't anywhere near as compelling, though maybe with another half decade's work it would have turned out good. starting with the Sun and Moon takes a whole lot of the majesty out of the pre-kinslaying mythos
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Oct 12, 2022 01:35
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Flat world being turned into a round world is still a legit hella fun idea
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Oct 12, 2022 02:05
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yeah especially with humans trying to attack and dethrone god being the trigger
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Oct 12, 2022 02:32
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The Book of Lost Tales has some just bonkers stuff in it, and honestly I liked that version of the story. That being said, I don't think Tolkien EVER wrote a complete prose version of the War of Wrath/Fall of Morgoth, so even that was incomplete.
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Oct 12, 2022 02:33
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https://twitter.com/amayor/status/1584636794263392258 I never thought of Rohan in terms of horsegirls, but it seems obvious now.
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Oct 26, 2022 04:42
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Based on that twitter thread, Many of the orcs at Helms Deep were women too.
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Oct 26, 2022 05:20
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SlothfulCobra posted:https://twitter.com/amayor/status/1584636794263392258 interesting! never heard about that before
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Oct 26, 2022 07:21
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