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Azran posted:Wasn't there a VT2 bug that was fixed one patch before getting promptly unfixed the following patch multiple times? Yes, and IIRC the issue was that they weren't building their patches off the live version of the game and were instead patching off an old version of the game where the bug still existed. Like, basic programming versioning mistakes. Edit: also play on Steam ya jerks. DeathSandwich fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Oct 26, 2022 |
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Oct 26, 2022 14:24
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I still don't understand how this can happen to a professional development studio with years of experience, and I'm not even sure they learned anything from it, but I somehow also find it both hilarious and oddly endearing.
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Oct 26, 2022 15:11
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Badly Jester posted:I still don't understand how this can happen to a professional development studio with years of experience, and I'm not even sure they learned anything from it, but I somehow also find it both hilarious and oddly endearing. The most baffling is that it keeps happening. Twice they made an effort to set up a Steam beta for big update patches, and twice they then never updated said beta, for weeks, and simply made patches for beta-reported bugs and applied them to their internal build; and then shoved the whole big patched update on live at once. Unsurprisingly, both times it resulted in a lot of fun integration errors
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Oct 26, 2022 15:22
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Badly Jester posted:I still don't understand how this can happen to a professional development studio with years of experience, and I'm not even sure they learned anything from it, but I somehow also find it both hilarious and oddly endearing. this happens more than you think but also fatshark takes it to another level
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Oct 26, 2022 15:23
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Nobody likes this poo poo or working with these kinds of mistakes. It is suggestive that either management is not allowing them to work in a reasonable manner, or that there is someone in the dev team who cannot be fired or safely worked around.
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Oct 26, 2022 15:45
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Fishstick posted:I'm a huge skeptic but FS games usually eventually get into a fun mostly playable state. You can preorder and check out the preorder beta and still refund it, regardless of how many hours you spent on it as long as you refund before actual launch. For me I'm mostly just curious if the performance issues have been fixed, because I can deal with the classic Fatshark un-polish, but not with multiple crashes every mission and playing on low/med on a RTX3070 edit: basically people are mostly very fond of Fatshark and their games. But they do have a lovable reputation for stepping on all kind of rakes when it comes to QA.
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Oct 26, 2022 15:51
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Senethro posted:Nobody likes this poo poo or working with these kinds of mistakes. It is suggestive that either management is not allowing them to work in a reasonable manner, or that there is someone in the dev team who cannot be fired or safely worked around. Yeah, it really seems like people were getting pressured to push out a patch more quickly than they were able to, and that whoever has (or should have) the institutional knowledge to ensure it's done properly either wasn't available or just didn't give a poo poo.
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Oct 26, 2022 15:53
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I'd say comedy option, but it probably isn't, they probably just had a junior pushing the patch out and the documentation was poo poo.
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Oct 26, 2022 16:02
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Zephro posted:Vermintide and Vermintide 2 were totally playable and fun on release. There were bugs and problems, especially in the second game, but unless you were a tryhard theorycrafter optimising that extra 1% of performance for the highest skill level you could ignore them and it didn't really detract from the game. A lot of the people posting are hardcore VT2 veterans with hundreds of hours in the game. If you just want to chop some heretics then I guess there's no guarantees but on past form you'll be able to have fun doing that without having to wait months. Bugs like “you have a chance to drop dead for no reason” or “the game unintentionally spawns specials in pairs directly next to you so you can have four disabler specials on your team within seconds of each other” or “a patrol spawns out of thin air on top of you while you’re fighting a horde” or “your swings sometimes phase through enemies without hitting them,” all of which are consequently followed by you failing the mission, felt somewhat hard to ignore and slightly detracted from the game.
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Oct 26, 2022 16:08
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Senethro posted:Nobody likes this poo poo or working with these kinds of mistakes. It is suggestive that either management is not allowing them to work in a reasonable manner, or that there is someone in the dev team who cannot be fired or safely worked around. Or you have workflow issues, separate teams (I. E. Content team, balance team, bugfix team) working off different repos and then having to hammer it all together at the 11th hour can cause huge issues.
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Oct 26, 2022 16:10
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IMO, everyone sucks at everything, especially in tech. Go look at anyone doing software anything. It's a hilarious collection of disasters. The details may be slightly different and each has their own set of problems, but the outcomes are always very far from perfect. That's not to excuse Fat Shark's dumb mistakes, but they certainly are not alone on that front.
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Oct 26, 2022 16:24
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Internet Explorer posted:IMO, everyone sucks at everything, especially in tech. Go look at anyone doing software anything. It's a hilarious collection of disasters. The details may be slightly different and each has their own set of problems, but the outcomes are always very far from perfect. That's not to excuse Fat Shark's dumb mistakes, but they certainly are not alone on that front. Absolutely, i've started a new job recently (hey, tech goons,  ) and some of the quotes in the "documentation" i've gotten as a handover has been absolutely hilarious. "Nobody here knows what this does or what its used for, but we're all too scared to turn it off". "This might be getting backed up, but I wasn't sure, so i've backed it up a different way just in case" "We lost the passwords to these a while ago but we haven't needed to access it since we set it up, so we're just leaving it so we don't break something that might be relying on it". I'm paraphrasing, but holy poo poo, lmao.
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Oct 26, 2022 16:39
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Software development is a shitshow, regardless of what's being developed.
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Oct 26, 2022 16:44
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Technology is exactly like 40k in that respect. “We do it in this order because otherwise it doesn’t work and no one knows why. The people who made it are gone”
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Oct 26, 2022 16:49
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Occasional fuckups are inevitable and fixable. The same fuckup happening five times in a row with no apparent effort to change workflows or systems to prevent it from happening a sixth time is a deeper issue. I once hosed up and resolved a merge conflict the wrong way without confirming which way it should go with the person who wrote the conflicting code. I have never made that mistake again because we saw the problem, talked about it and agreed to change how we responded to merge conflicts in the future to make sure we didn’t do something bad like regress a bugfix. At some point after release fatshark introduced a now-infamous “phantom swing” bug to VT2 where your weapon would sometimes phase through every enemy in front of you and nothing would happen to them. This is in a game where 90% of your time is spent swinging a weapon at enemies and relying on it to stagger them so they don’t kill you, so it’s safe to say this bug was “broken game” tier. a phantom swing happening at a bad moment in a horde could absolutely cause someone to get downed and lead to a failure spiral. Their bugfix for this took…four tries? Five tries? to finally stick, I legitimately can’t remember how long it was around because every other patch would regress it back into the game or it would just continue to happen after the very same patch they claimed they fixed it again. This example isn’t unique and there were other potentially run-ending bugs such as specials spawning in pairs that had similar regression issues. I don’t think fatshark is an embarrassing developer because they added phantom swings or double specials, but because they visibly refused to change anything about their workflows or systems after they undid their own fixes more than once. for those who have never played something from fatshark before and don’t understand some of the skepticism for darktide, that’s one of several reasons for it.
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Oct 26, 2022 16:56
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So are the majority of you guys going to be playing on Steam then? It's a real shame they aren't making the game cross platform compatible.
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Oct 26, 2022 19:04
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I preordered the game on steam and will be playing on steam
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Oct 26, 2022 19:07
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Gamepass for now, but if turns out the game has more longevity than I expect I’ll end up getting it on Steam. I expect people who played a lot of Vermintide will already know where it’ll land for them and will be just going with Steam day one.
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Oct 26, 2022 19:20
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I'm mostly just bummed that I am going to have to juggle both versions to play with different people.
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Oct 26, 2022 19:22
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part of the benefit of waiting for it to go on gamepass is seeing what state the game is delivered in to the preorder people
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Oct 26, 2022 19:23
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But being a pre-order people gives you the benefit of being a star-bellied snoot with exclusive costumes and premium currency 
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Oct 26, 2022 19:27
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Al-Saqr posted:I preordered the game on steam and will be playing on steam Yeah, this is me. Im pretty well embedded in the stream environment and I'm not terribly interested in outside platforms. Even if it's a hot mess on launch I'll get my $40 worth and probably wind up with hundreds of not thousands of hours played like Vermintide 1 and 2. Have we settled on which discord were going to primarily try to use for games? We got like 4 discord for various Vermintide and general coop goon nonsense. I'm more active in the gob Vermintide and coop goons discords. DeathSandwich fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Oct 26, 2022 |
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Oct 26, 2022 19:31
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Also being able to play over a holiday weekend... I haven't been able to game much this year and it has been making me cranky.
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Oct 26, 2022 19:31
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Wheeee posted:Gamepass for now, but if turns out the game has more longevity than I expect I’ll end up getting it on Steam. Keep in mind theres no guarantee profiles will be cross platform, so you might have to re-grind your character levels/gear on Steam
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Oct 26, 2022 19:31
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If I play, it'll be on steam.
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Oct 26, 2022 19:34
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Corbeau posted:If I play, it'll be on steam. Same.
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Oct 26, 2022 20:27
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DeathSandwich posted:Yes, and IIRC the issue was that they weren't building their patches off the live version of the game and were instead patching off an old version of the game where the bug still existed. Version control is *hard*. The urge to click "yes for all, do not ask me again" on that overwrite prompt is programmer's crack, right ? Fatshark knows. CA knows. Owlcat knows.
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Oct 26, 2022 20:32
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big cummers ONLY posted:Technology is exactly like 40k in that respect. “We do it in this order because otherwise it doesn’t work and no one knows why. The people who made it are gone” No, that's... you're thinking of Dominions, there.
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Oct 26, 2022 20:33
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dogstile posted:Absolutely, i've started a new job recently (hey, tech goons, IME there's only two types of documentation (or code comments) : - "This the mouse code block. You know how it works." - "The operation of a mouse is not necessarily intuitive. For the purpose of this document, the left pushable surface on the upper left corner of the mouse will henceforth be labelled as "button 1" and is activated by applying downwards pressure on said surface by one mean or another."
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Oct 26, 2022 20:38
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Kobal2 posted:IME there's only two types of documentation (or code comments) : //TODO: Add mouse sensitivity and option to invert Y axis.
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Oct 26, 2022 20:54
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Cowcaster posted:part of the benefit of waiting for it to go on gamepass is seeing what state the game is delivered in to the preorder people It's on gamepass from day 1. Or is that later than the steam release?
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Oct 26, 2022 22:11
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Kobal2 posted:IME there's only two types of documentation (or code comments) : Proper documentation is super hard. Moreso when you've been looking at a set of code consistently across the span of 9+ months and something as complicated as game code. It's either so intuitive you gloss over it without thinking or it has ceased making sense 6 or 7 iterations ago and is now fueled by black magic and animal sacrifices. In that regard - for someone trying to prevent the latter you sometimes go overboard into Death By Documentation, where you wind up writing hundreds of pages of documentation that nobody can reference in good time, so they don't bother to read it, which again goes back to "black magic, animal sacrifices" territory.
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Oct 26, 2022 22:16
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Brendan Rodgers posted:It's on gamepass from day 1. Or is that later than the steam release? preorder people get to start playing "open beta" two weeks early up until launch. i put "open beta" in quotes because what it really sounds like is "1.0 launch with a shitload of bugs", not a beta.
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Oct 26, 2022 22:17
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I'll be playing steam but probably won't be preordering
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Oct 26, 2022 22:18
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Cowcaster posted:preorder people get to start playing "open beta" two weeks early up until launch. i put "open beta" in quotes because what it really sounds like is "1.0 launch with a shitload of bugs", not a beta. "1.0 launch with a shitload of bugs" is what you're getting on launch day too. I doubt they'll have time to fix or change much of anything unless it's an absolute showstopper. May as well get started two weeks early.
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Oct 26, 2022 22:35
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think i'll wait and see what state the game is delivered in to the preorder people, with the intent of trying it on gamepass
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Oct 26, 2022 22:37
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DeathSandwich posted:Proper documentation is super hard. Moreso when you've been looking at a set of code consistently across the span of 9+ months and something as complicated as game code. It's either so intuitive you gloss over it without thinking or it has ceased making sense 6 or 7 iterations ago and is now fueled by black magic and animal sacrifices. Or you do what the company I work for does. Zero documentation then start chewing out devs when they don't know how every part of a labyrinthian codebase interacts with another labyrinthian codebase, even the stuff they've never worked with. Fatshark isn't perfect, but at least they have version numbers, even if they forget to reference them frequently.
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Oct 26, 2022 23:07
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for anyone looking to get their nurgle on before the end of november, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWoOuRqIa54 just sayin
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Oct 27, 2022 00:34
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Shame it's dwarves.
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Oct 27, 2022 01:44
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Wheeee posted:for anyone looking to get their nurgle on before the end of november,
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