|
SlapActionJackson posted:And "lack of buildable land" isn't in the top 100 reasons for California housing prices. It's so hard to resist slamming my head on a keyboard until an effort-post about Prop 13, weaponized environmental laws (not that having environmental laws is the problem, but people weaponizing them for NIMBY purposes), zoning, etc etc pops out on my screen. But, last time I did that a bunch of Californians came out of the woodworks and said I was just bitching because I didn't get in early and benefit myself. Also, the ever-present horseshit of "why do you want to evict Granny?" showed up too. #1 reason for California housing prices: long-time Californian residents/home-owners are lovely people.
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 04:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2024 05:23 |
|
|
Want to fix the housing crisis in California and every other area suffering from it? Bulldoze a few dozen blocks of downtown and build high density housing. Yes you’ll have to tear down some historic buildings. Yes you’ll wreck some views and change the skyline. Yes the character of the city will change. Sucks but that’s progress and how you have a functional city of X people in a footprint that had .5X people in 1920 or whenever all your charming buildings were built. Don’t need to blow them all out. Just need to do enough to you know create some housing.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 04:23
|
|
|
Have you been like, more than six (6) miles east of downtown Austin? 130 just shoots through rolling hills at 85mph because there's absolutely nothing there but cow pasture as far as the eye can see. I think Tesla built one of their famous gigafactories off 130, there was just infinity space 6 miles is a lot in the bay area, that's like SF to Oakland, but most people I knew when I lived there would drive six miles to their favorite starbucks before breakfast six days a week Here is a video, selected at random from youtube. This is what prime buildable land looks like in texas, as far as the eye can see. You don't need anything larger than SFH in this part of the world, there's plenty of space to build 10 lane toll roads in all directions forever. I prefer we start building up, but there's nothing stopping austin from building out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i-V2e5ozG4&t=394s edit: skip ahead to the 8:30 mark you can see downtown austin in the background Hadlock fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Oct 27, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 04:26
|
|
|
Cyrano4747 posted:Want to fix the housing crisis in California and every other area suffering from it? I think that'd be a good start
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 04:29
|
|
|
Cyrano4747 posted:Want to fix the housing crisis in California and every other area suffering from it? Yeah, I don't think this is a great solution either. The Chicago Housing Authority tried something very similar (admittedly not downtown) and it turned into - well, I think everyone knows the story of Cabrini-Green or can easily look it up. This all started out well enough, in fact it was a model for what public housing could be, but external forces being what they were at the time and largely still are it got poorer and poorer, funding was diverted from maintenance to social work/policing, and it turned into a notorious failure. This is pretty much the story of most high density housing built by the state. I don't know what the solution is, but trying the same things over an over again hoping for different results has yet to work.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 14:06
|
|
|
Motronic posted:Yeah, I don't think this is a great solution either. The Chicago Housing Authority tried something very similar (admittedly not downtown) and it turned into - well, I think everyone knows the story of Cabrini-Green or can easily look it up. This all started out well enough, in fact it was a model for what public housing could be, but external forces being what they were at the time and largely still are it got poorer and poorer, funding was diverted from maintenance to social work/policing, and it turned into a notorious failure. This is pretty much the story of most high density housing built by the state. Doesn’t have to be a poorly run housing development run by the state. Just opening up a lot of urban centers for redevelopment period - rezoning, re-examining what historic buildings REALLY need to be kept, getting rid of restrictions in height and aesthetic etc - would go a long way to encourage denser housing.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 14:24
|
|
|
Cyrano4747 posted:Doesn’t have to be a poorly run housing development run by the state. Just opening up a lot of urban centers for redevelopment period - rezoning, re-examining what historic buildings REALLY need to be kept, getting rid of restrictions in height and aesthetic etc - would go a long way to encourage denser housing. How will this differ from when those opportunities arise now? Because when they do someone builds luxury condos. It make zero economic sense to do anything else. Affordable housing isn't profitable to build - in fact in many cases isn't not even affordable to build, although more rezoning just might fix that part. This is why I went right to public housing.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 14:29
|
|
|
Motronic posted:How will this differ from when those opportunities arise now? Because when they do someone builds luxury condos. It make zero economic sense to do anything else. Affordable housing isn't profitable to build - in fact in many cases isn't not even affordable to build, although more rezoning just might fix that part. This is why I went right to public housing. Well, again, rezoning is a huge part of it. SF is some really low hanging fruit in this regard but their height restrictions illustrate one of the worst case scenarios: extremely limited land, and an artificial cap on how tall (and thus how high density) any housing can be, whether we're talking a government housing project or luxury condos. https://sfplanninggis.s3.amazonaws.com/hub/BIGmap_HeightBulk.pdf I've got a friend who's parents bought a house in the city in the 70s. Their entire neighborhood is charming little SFHs and townhouses, none of them more than two or three stories (I think they're in that big swath of beige 40-foot height limit). It's walkable to downtown, I've done it. Even if you're only building luxury condos demo'ing his entire block and putting in 10 story buildings would put in a lot of units, and more units is going to if nothing else help supply and let more people live there. Is it ever going to be affordable in the sense that someone earning minimum wage can live in the city center? Probably not, but it still is a step in the right direction. Basically the perfect doesn't have to be the enemy of the good. We've got a lot of well meaning regulations in a lot of areas that are holding back denser development in the places where people want to live.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 14:41
|
|
|
Seattle is another perennial example of height limits. IIRC a lot of the city is zoned with a ~60 foot cap. It's been a while since I dug into that, though, so maybe they've changed things since 2016.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 14:44
|
|
|
nah the thing is that those luxury condos aren't primary residences, they're parked store of wealth for local and foreign rich people. some people live in them, but not that many. there really needs to be a hefty tax on unoccupied real estate
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 14:47
|
|
|
Luckily, we here in North Oakland have figured out how to get residents excited about building housing - threaten them with a Home Depot: https://www.ktvu.com/news/oakland-residents-rally-against-plans-for-new-home-depot I am sure their zealousness for housing is totally legitimate and will continue at least three minutes past the developer shelving that idea.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 17:18
|
|
|
I will use a recent zoning example in Denver. They re-zoned along the light rail and previous 1 story zoning is now between 3-8 stories dependent on how close you are to the light rail. But if you increase (can't recall exactly how much) the low income housing of the development you can double the building height. Not perfect but seems helpful. If you drive up there now everything is being rebuilt and it is all very tall. https://rinoartdistrict.org/post/density-bonus
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 17:40
|
|
|
We are basically finished buying a house. It's a church conversion and it's loving awesome and I'm super stoked about it. A little reality hit me though: Cost to insure is replacement cost, not mortgage cost. We might be buying this place for $350,000~, but the replacement cost is about uh...triple that I guess.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 18:36
|
|
|
KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:there really needs to be a hefty tax on unoccupied real estate I feel like this is the fix we need, that those in power will never let pass
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 18:53
|
|
|
Canine Blues Arooo posted:We are basically finished buying a house. It's a church conversion and it's loving awesome and I'm super stoked about it. A little reality hit me though: Lol, no not triple. If you lost the whole house you probably are building a generic replacement and not a church replica. You should discuss with your insurance company though. I bought for $621 and it would probably sell around $675 but i have it insured for $800.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 18:53
|
|
|
spwrozek posted:Lol, no not triple. If you lost the whole house you probably are building a generic replacement and not a church replica. You should discuss with your insurance company though. Yeah, I have a conversation with an agent this afternoon. In the event of a catastrophic loss, we wouldn't rebuild a church replica, and I can't imagine the bank really cares as long as their loan is secured.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 18:56
|
|
|
Canine Blues Arooo posted:Yeah, I have a conversation with an agent this afternoon. In the event of a catastrophic loss, we wouldn't rebuild a church replica, and I can't imagine the bank really cares as long as their loan is secured. Hey man, there's a YouTuber Canadian, Home Renovision DIY guy that recently bought a church to convert. In case you haven't seen it and like to watch that type of stuff sometimes, here's one vid in a series on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_dz8Qq4ibg Inner Light fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Oct 27, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 19:24
|
|
|
Inner Light posted:Hey man, there's a YouTuber Canadian, Home Renovision DIY guy that recently bought a church to convert. In case you haven't seen it and like to watch that type of stuff sometimes, here's one vid in a series on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_dz8Qq4ibg Yeah, stuff like this is super cool. Honestly, the idea of buying a church as a home was not at all on my radar and it was pure circumstance that put this property on our map, but the idea of having these enormous ceilings with the beautiful woodwork, and full brick that's common in mid-centaury protectant churches -- it's built like a rock (literally), it's gorgeous, and it's a third of the cost of a much smaller house in the area where I have historically worked. The advent of permanent WFH has made this real. I'm super excited, and I'm kind of all about the idea of finding these older churches with updated plumbing / electrical.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 19:39
|
|
|
How's the insulation? I don't have like a huge experience with churches but I don't think I've ever been inside an old church that was actually insulated at all.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 19:46
|
|
|
Leperflesh posted:How's the insulation? I don't have like a huge experience with churches but I don't think I've ever been inside an old church that was actually insulated at all. The situation is interesting. My understanding is that the outer walls (from outside to in) is: [Brick] [Some kind of Stone Layer] [Brick] [Wood Structure] [Insulation] [Drywall]. The whole of the outer wall is crazy thick and pretty goofy. A buddy of mine currently lives in the building (We are buying it from a relative), and apparently the cost to heat is quite low. Part of that might just be because it's being heated by a big ol' boiler which is just wildly efficient vs forced air, but it seems to be somewhere in the realm of fine. E: One of the things that does scare the poo poo out of me: The main floor is all Spancrete. This is really cool because it insulates noise and you can have big basement rooms. The really spooky thing is that I have no idea how to repair it if it cracks. It's in great shape today, but I'm really scared of what happens if I need to fix it. One does not simply replace a giant slab of the floor. If someone actually is an expert in spancrete, I'd love to hear from you and have a brief conversation. Canine Blues Arooo fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Oct 27, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 19:53
|
|
|
Insurance, insulation, magically efficient heating sources and "is it possible to repair the floor" sound a lot like things one normally sorts out BEFORE buying a particular home.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 20:17
|
|
|
Just because you have a bunch of room in the church where the pews used to be, does not mean you don't have to take out the garbage for a long time.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 20:23
|
|
|
Motronic posted:Insurance, insulation, magically efficient heating sources and "is it possible to repair the floor" sound a lot like things one normally sorts out BEFORE buying a particular home. We've had it inspected. We know the score on the electrical, the HVAC, the plumbing, and the boiler. Our ducks are largely in a row there. The floor is a weird one though, and it's something that's not relevant today, but might be relevant in the future. I mean, I also have no idea what the hell to do if the giant wooden ceiling supports get damaged either, and it's not like that information is readily available. For stuff like that, I'm resigned to the fact that I'm going to have to call a specialist of some kind in the event that it needs to be repaired.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 20:24
|
|
|
IOwnCalculus posted:Just because you have a bunch of room in the church where the pews used to be, does not mean you don't have to take out the garbage for a long time.  glad to see this joke coming around again on the guitar
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 20:42
|
|
|
Canine Blues Arooo posted:We've had it inspected. We know the score on the electrical, the HVAC, the plumbing, and the boiler. Our ducks are largely in a row there. Tell me you're a first time home buyer without telling me you're a first time home buyer. And you're buying from family?
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 20:47
|
|
|
Motronic posted:Tell me you're a first time home buyer without telling me you're a first time home buyer. On paper, not in practice. The property was remodeled by an group that does those sort of things. A family member purchased it for us a few months ago under the condition that we buy it within the year. (Someone else was also interested in the property and we were not ready to buy at the time). I'm really curious what pitfalls you feel I should be wary of. I absolutely acknowledge my ignorance and I'm trying to solve for what I feel are my blind spots, but I don't know what I don't know.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 20:52
|
|
|
IOwnCalculus posted:Just because you have a bunch of room in the church where the pews used to be, does not mean you don't have to take out the garbage for a long time.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 20:53
|
|
|
Canine Blues Arooo posted:On paper, not in practice. The property was remodeled by an group that does those sort of things. A family member purchased it for us a few months ago under the condition that we buy it within the year. (Someone else was also interested in the property and we were not ready to buy at the time). So 100% "yes" on first time homebuyers. So many red flags - when was the property remodeled? What kind of a group? What exactly was replaced? Nothing about your explanation about insulation/lack thereof and this heating system being "a big boiler so its more efficient" pass a sniff test of being correct. It sounds like something someone who is trying to sell the place would tell you. Did the selling agent tell you this? Or was it your inspector? Where did you find that inspector? Please don't say "my real estate agent recommended them".
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 20:57
|
|
|
I've never heard of the stuff before, but if you had a spancrete failure kind of looks like you could brace it from underneath with an I beam(s) and then caulk the crack(s) with a specialty adhesive, otherwise you'd have to get a concrete form guy in there to pour a new steel reinforced slab*, which would need some kind of vertical supports underneath. Probably $20,000 to get someone in the door but if you were doing multiple sections the price wouldn't go up much If your walls sit on the foundation and don't overlap with the spancrete you might be able to crane it out through a hole in the roof and replace it with like  I've probably mixed less than 1000 lbs of concrete (quickcrete) in my life so my opinion doesn't really hold much water *after demolishing the section and removing the debris
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 21:01
|
|
|
Spancrete is just precast concrete. Installed all over the world in all kinds of applications. You will be dead before you have issues.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 21:07
|
|
|
Motronic posted:So 100% "yes" on first time homebuyers. Property was remodeled earlier this year. The group that did it basically buys buildings and turns them into homes / small offices as best as we can tell. All the electrical and most of the plumbing was redone. We hired the inspectors ourselves - one for the initial purchase, and a different one for this 'repurchase'. We asked them both about the state of the roof, the floor, the electrical, the plumbing and the boiler. One mentioned that the boiler will need to be serviced by a someone with a commercials license, so I'm sure that costs more. The shingles were not part of the remodel and while they are fine now, they will likely need to be redone within the decade. The plumbing that was not redone leads to a bathroom in the basement that we are going to rip out (which is a non trivial project) . The exterior is in great shape. I think those are the big bullet points as I recall. Canine Blues Arooo fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Oct 27, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 21:10
|
|
|
Sounds like the original floorplan was altared
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 21:17
|
|
|
GoGoGadgetChris posted:Sounds like the original floorplan was altared Quite a bit. The basement was unfinished and still is unfinished so that's largely as it was. The main floor used to be well...a church. A loft was added to what would be the balcony along with stairs to said loft. and a kitchen was put underneath it. It's largely still a very open space though -- no new walled rooms were carved out.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 21:26
|
|
|
Motronic is being stern, as is his wont, but I think the general point here is that we would never advise a first-time home buyer to dive into this deep deep end of the pool. A conversion is likely to have issues, inspections don't (can't) find everything, and you may find you have to shell out a lot more than usual for fixes to those issues because of the specialty nature of the building as compared to typical residential construction. You can address all of those problems with money. If you have plenty of money, then no worries, you'll be OK. If you don't have plenty of money, then at least go into this purchase with the awareness that you don't know what you don't know. Also a boiler is not automatically "more efficient" than central air to heat a building as a matter of course, but it's possible that a boiler is more efficient in this specific building than retrofitting it for central air would be. For example. And the description of the walls of your building is weird, but it sounds like it may actually be well-insulated? Motronic might have missed that you replied to me saying it had added interior layers of insulation and drywall. Which could be good, or, could be covering defects in the masonry behind that drywall, but it's not clear to me if that was done as part of the remodel you were supervising or if it was done prior to you/your family's ownership.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 21:26
|
|
|
I appreciate the abundance of caution. Like I said, I really don't know what I don't know and would rather hear I'm an idiot now rather then around the time a pipe explodes or whatnot. The nice thing is that we do have money - we both are engineers on six figures and being able to move to the middle of nowhere paying middle of nowhere prices for housing means that we can afford problems -- I'd go as far to say that we expect problems because it's just a weird property and 'poo poo happens' seems to be more common as you get more weird. I'll probably write down said problems and post about them as I run into them for some future version of me (who will likely promptly ignore them :P).
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 21:37
|
|
|
How old is the church? With the flooring sounds like not much older than mid 1950s edit: have you watched The Zero Theorem Hadlock fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Oct 27, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 21:37
|
|
|
Canine Blues Arooo posted:It's largely still a very open space though -- no new walled rooms were carved out. Sounds like the original floorplan was hallowed
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 21:44
|
|
|
Canine Blues Arooo posted:Quite a bit. The basement was unfinished and still is unfinished so that's largely as it was. The main floor used to be well...a church. A loft was added to what would be the balcony along with stairs to said loft. and a kitchen was put underneath it. It's largely still a very open space though -- no new walled rooms were carved out. You missed their pun 
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 21:46
|
|
|
BonoMan posted:You missed their pun gently caress, I'm dense and I suck. I picked it up the second time around tho :P. Hadlock posted:How old is the church? With the flooring sounds like not much older than mid 1950s Originally built in 1961.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 21:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2024 05:23 |
|
|
Canine Blues Arooo posted:gently caress, I'm dense and I suck. I picked it up the second time around tho :P. This house sounds kinda cool though. Are there any photos you can share that aren't doxxable?
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 22:26
|
|