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KingKapalone posted:Thank you. I got it working. Free 5800x3d for me! I think we can safely declare you winner of AM4. Upgraded to the best CPU and didn't even pay for it.
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Oct 25, 2022 05:06
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KingKapalone posted:Thank you. I got it working. Free 5800x3d for me! Holy poo poo
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Oct 25, 2022 05:09
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There were a ton of bent pins but really it took less than an hour with a razor blade and it was my first time ever attempting this. First try reslotting it didn't work so I had another pass at it which was quick and worked. My friend had nightmare of a time trying to upgrade his rig. He also had no plan and ended up needing a new PSU, new case to fit the AIO 4090 and Dark Rock Pro 4 cooler but then new car didn't have clearance so he had to buy a new cooler. Says he can't return the Dark Rock because he lost all the packaging and stuff in a day. So that's one wasted CPU and one wasted cooler. Too stressed to bother. I have the same case so can't use the cooler either.
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Oct 25, 2022 06:00
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PGA is a lot more repairable than LGA. It’s true. Gotta be very gentle with LGA. There’s going to be some AMD people bending their first sockets I bet.
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Oct 25, 2022 06:08
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KingKapalone posted:Thank you. I got it working. Free 5800x3d for me! After updating chipset drivers you won’t need anything other than the default windows power plan. Your CPU will run hot. It’s maximum real life frequency is 4.45GHz, on air it’ll probably hang out there on single core but go down into the 4.2 range with all core workloads with temps above 80C. If you’re not seeing 4.45 during your normal workloads you’ll get something out of improved cooling. Ryzen master and bios locks out core voltage offsets but you can use other tools if you want but it’s a bigger pain than normal zen 3.
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Oct 25, 2022 06:26
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hobbesmaster posted:After updating chipset drivers you won’t need anything other than the default windows power plan. 3DMark will show mine going over 4.5GHz on a couple cores, but CPU-Z puts my speed at at more like 4.25GHz. I haven't been super exhaustive with the testing, though.
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Oct 25, 2022 06:57
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HWINFO64’s “effective clock” is probably the best judge.
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Oct 25, 2022 07:09
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hobbesmaster posted:HWINFO64’s “effective clock” is probably the best judge. I'll check that out at some point. Machine is running well so I usually only bench if I'm curious or if I make a hardware change or am messing with fans and such.
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Oct 25, 2022 07:40
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KingKapalone posted:I'm coming from a 3600. What should I know as a part of the upgrade? I think this one will run hotter? I have a Scythe Mugen 5 rev.b. I'll have to run some benchmarks, but should that be fine? My BIOS settings got cleared and I don't remember what I had my fan curve at, but it's definitely louder sitting in Windows. Any recommended curve? It will run hotter, but a lot of that heat is because the 3d cache is between the hot cores and the cooler. Setting your fan curve expecting 60-70C as a normal operating temperature with moderate fan speed is fine. KingKapalone posted:I remember at Zen 2 launch that the power settings were weird and I ended up trying a few. I'm not sure if they switched when I installed the CPU, but it's currently on High Performance. I would not use a "High Performance" setting in the BIOS. All you want is to run your ram in XMP speed, and leave everything else stock. Number 1: mobo "performance mode" or "automatic OC" are bad because they run stuff like the FSB out of spec or overvolt the CPU. The tiny amount of added performance isn't worth the potential stability & power downsides. If you want to OC, learn how do do it for real. (Or don't: you'll spend many days fiddling with stuff for fairly small results. The days when a good OC gave you 20% more performance are very over.) Number 2: you have a pretty cheap mobo there. MSI's low-end B450s had a semi-decent VRMs by the general standard of cheap mobos. It will have no problem running the 5800 at stock. But it's not a good board for OC or pumping extra power into a CPU. Klyith fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Oct 25, 2022 |
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Oct 25, 2022 15:39
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Klyith posted:TSMC N3 will use GAAFET instead of FinFET. That's gonna be a big deal, and Intel won't have the equivalent until "Intel 20A" in 2024 or later (the recent rumors are that Intel will have very limited production on that in 2024). TSMC 3N is still FinFET, it's Samsung who moved to GAA for 3nm. TSMC will adopt it for 2N which I don't think will be released until 2025.
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Oct 25, 2022 20:14
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As always, thanks for the cautionary tales and reminders to twist the CPU cooler loose. I can't believe I have never bent any pins yet because I always forget.
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Oct 25, 2022 20:29
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I should probably reapply the paste on my 3700x, but the temps are good, despite loving Asus x370 blasting it with 1.45V due to OC profile I set a while back and forget about..
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Oct 25, 2022 20:32
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Klyith posted:It will run hotter, but a lot of that heat is because the 3d cache is between the hot cores and the cooler. Setting your fan curve expecting 60-70C as a normal operating temperature with moderate fan speed is fine. XMP are Intel settings. On Zen 2/3 the motherboard’s “translation” of XMP often doesn’t set correct Vdimm and basically never sets an appropriate Vsoc. The numbers are probably 1.40 and 1.1 to ensure your RAM boots at XMP.
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Oct 25, 2022 20:59
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hobbesmaster posted:XMP are Intel settings. On Zen 2/3 the motherboard’s “translation” of XMP often doesn’t set correct Vdimm and basically never sets an appropriate Vsoc. The numbers are probably 1.40 and 1.1 to ensure your RAM boots at XMP. Haven't had a problem with this. Even my ryzen 1600 was able to load the XMP from non-QVL modules I had at the time. (It wasn't ideal due to being 3000/C15 and thus limited by the even-number CAS latency thing, so I go into manual OCing to run it 3200/C16 with some voltage bumps. But that's neither the mobo's fault nor the ram, it was my cheap rear end that bought ram not on a QVL.) Meanwhile, I would be extremely reluctant to tell anyone who doesn't know what they're doing to alter VSoc. That is the most sensitive part and the easiest to gently caress up if you do no extra checks. Loading XMP works the vast majority of the time on recent ryzens with normal-quality ram, and if you don't get the absolute best subtimings because the voltage is conservative it's an extremely minimal loss.
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Oct 25, 2022 21:56
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The only real "overclocking" I'd consider with Zen 3 is turn on PBO which essentially turns off power limits. Combine it with a small negative curve optimizer offset (-10 is something almost all zen 3 chips should be capable of) and you'll gain maybe 10% more performance in all-core loads at the expense of 20 - 30% more power consumption. Zen 4 is basically pointless to do this in because AMD already increased the power limits to unnecessary levels out of the box. Most people will want to set lower power limits there.
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Oct 25, 2022 22:34
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Not a lot of chatter about Zen 4 here, seems to have bombed pretty hard in enthusiast circles  Tbh if I was building an AMD system right now, I'd go for a 5600 or 5800X-3D too. The efficiency was one of Zen3s main draws, what were they thinking with that thermal turbo nonsense.
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Oct 26, 2022 01:54
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Idk if this is how it usually is, but not launching the B650 boards at the same time seems to have been a big mistake. Raptor Lake would still be attractive even without the mobo advantage.
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Oct 26, 2022 02:07
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b650 boards launched only two weeks after zen 4/x670 boards and are priced atrociously, the two-week delay doesn't even come into it
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Oct 26, 2022 02:20
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Zen4 is very good. It's just not a great deal relative to what Intel is offering right now, which by current standards is a reasonably priced, very capable gaming CPU that is also more than capable of handling significant hobby-level non-gaming workloads. AMD may have hosed up with the cost of the motherboards, but the CPUs themselves are in fact a significant step forward from Zen3. If you want efficiency, it's easy to get - but in reality, people don't care. If you were to poll what percentage of people turn down the power limits on their CPUs and GPUs, it's definitely under 5%, and I'd bet it's under 2%. You can argue the power limits, but the thermal limit is not a bad thing at all. You're going to see average temperatures continue to rise across all products as nodes get smaller. Heat transfer is affected by both surface area and temperature differential, so as things get smaller, without magical materials it's necessary to increase temps to get heat out efficiently. That would be true even if watts consumed flatlined.
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Oct 26, 2022 02:25
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The two problems facing Zen4 are absurdly priced motherboards and everyone knows a 3D cache version is coming
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Oct 26, 2022 02:42
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Everything coming out right now (zen 4, rocket lake, 4090s, etc) was planned during a time of consumer     and the through-line is most of it is stupid expensive to capture all the stupid money. Intel was the only one saying "welp we better have a good value-for-money option out there" because they're the underdog now. No company wants to give us more value for money, they only do that because competition forces them to. As it turns out, that worked out great for Intel because the economy is either taking a quick break to catch its breath or maybe driving into a ditch. Hard to say yet. But in any case, there's been a quick correction as people start thinking "wait a minute, is paying $1800 for a video card actually really stupid?" And that's when the value for money option suddenly looks a whole lot better to more people. Klyith fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Oct 26, 2022 |
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Oct 26, 2022 02:48
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sauer kraut posted:Not a lot of chatter about Zen 4 here, seems to have bombed pretty hard in enthusiast circles there was a deal today with the 5800X3D at $329. As long as AMD wants to keep cranking on that poo poo I think there's people willing to buy, hell I'm kinda thinking of transplanting my system to a X570 ProArt Creator if I could only loving find one (not the B550)  Like actually in contrast to a lot of other prices going up, the 5800X3D is both a notable performance bump and I've got good DDR4 (like everyone else) and the new stuff is super expensive. It's a bump even over 9900K in a lot of things thanks to the cache - it'd be great for Team Fortress The Second which is usually still cpu-bottlenecked all the time, or other worst-case CPU games like skylines/factorio/etc. The things that bog down because of bullshit terrible engines usually love v-cache.hell I'd even be down for threadripper if they wanna make some new chips at reasonable prices. threadripper with v-cache would own. there's no rdimm on TRX40 anyway so just give us the chips. kinda wanted my next system to have avx-512 but hey, can't even imagine what DDR5/PCIe5 HEDT is going to cost, hello $2000 motherboards.
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Oct 26, 2022 03:14
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Antonline still has the 5800X3D for $329
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Oct 26, 2022 03:23
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FuturePastNow posted:Antonline still has the 5800X3D for $329 Newegg has it for that with the Uncharted game bundle.
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Oct 26, 2022 04:26
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FuturePastNow posted:The two problems facing Zen4 are absurdly priced motherboards and everyone knows a 3D cache version is coming And the motherboard pricing issue is partially alleviated by many of the bundle promotions we're seeing on Newegg and elsewhere. https://www.newegg.com/d/Special/Combo?Subcategory=0&Brand=0&SaveCompare=0&SaveAmount=&kwd=7700X&ListType=Combo&action=search&item= This puts AMD fairly close to Intel on price to gaming performance, but they're still quite a bit behind for anything aside from gaming. The way Intel is packing e-cores into even their cheaper chips now is gonna be hard to beat for AMD.
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Oct 26, 2022 04:27
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There are also a bunch of B650 boards showing up this week that do make the value proposition better. (Caveat, I dont know if any of these boards are good, but they are certainly more reasonably priced): Looking through the LGA1700 boards, there still is a price delta there though. Unless AMD gets aggressive with the 7600 pricing, I think the 13600k is going to remain a tough package to beat for midrange and gaming targeted builds.
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Oct 26, 2022 05:26
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There's also just the counterintutive fact that for high-resolution gaming everyone has been gpu bottlenecked for years with no cpu upgrade really making much sense.
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Oct 26, 2022 06:52
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https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-working-to-bring-cxl-technology-to-consumer-cpus Looking forward to the PS6, accelerated by HBM4 and CXL2 storage. Preorders open just in time for 2029's pandemic season!
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Oct 26, 2022 17:53
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Klyith posted:It will run hotter, but a lot of that heat is because the 3d cache is between the hot cores and the cooler. Setting your fan curve expecting 60-70C as a normal operating temperature with moderate fan speed is fine.
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Oct 26, 2022 20:56
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mdxi posted:https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-working-to-bring-cxl-technology-to-consumer-cpus i hope you like 30 fps remakes
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Oct 27, 2022 10:50
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Combat Pretzel posted:I wonder what the issue is in stacking the chiplet on top of the cache instead. Is the CCX pinout to the IO die that large? 1. Stacking on top means they can use the same CCD for normal CPUs and v-cache ones. If you did it the other way around the cache part would be a lot more complex (have to route all the connections through it), and you'd probably need to use a bottom silicon layer even on the regular CPUs. The silicon-silicon connection is very different from the silicon-substrate one. Either that or have different CCD designs for the regular and v-cache versions, which is a non-starter. 2. I believe it's not just the IO; the power delivery takes up a huge number of connection points to the substrate and needs to be spread all across the die. Just like most of the pins in the CPU socket are for power, you have to spread that current out as much as possible.
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Oct 27, 2022 15:03
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I bought a CPU from Walmart. That’s a first. 5800x3d for $339
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Oct 27, 2022 17:19
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Kaddish posted:I bought a CPU from Walmart. That’s a first. 5800x3d for $339 I've been buying more stuff from Best Buy, of all places. Started in 2020 because their stock tracking was accurate, and I could pick stuff up curbside. Kept doing it because... their stock tracking is accurate, pickup is still easy, newegg started turning into an evil parody of itself, and amazon is still a wasteland of over-MSRP bullshit.
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Oct 27, 2022 18:58
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mdxi posted:I've been buying more stuff from Best Buy, of all places. Started in 2020 because their stock tracking was accurate, and I could pick stuff up curbside. Kept doing it because... their stock tracking is accurate, pickup is still easy, newegg started turning into an evil parody of itself, and amazon is still a wasteland of over-MSRP bullshit. Newegg bums new out. They were so good in the 00s. I never had issues with them when I did regular pc builds in high school and college. Every time I've tried to use them since the pandemic I've been mad and disappointed.
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Oct 28, 2022 15:51
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I remain surprised that somehow the UK has retained a larger number of online retailers than most. pcpartpicker has 15 uk retailers for a 7900x. The US, despite being much larger, has just 7. It's not like as a nation we don't love to hurt ourselves by giving all our money to Amazon.
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Oct 28, 2022 17:54
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Pablo Bluth posted:I remain surprised that somehow the UK has retained a larger number of online retailers than most. pcpartpicker has 15 uk retailers for a 7900x. The US, despite being much larger, has just 7. It's not like as a nation we don't love to hurt ourselves by giving all our money to Amazon. Pcpartpicker isn't exactly authoritative. For example they don't index Microcenter at all. But yeah in the US newegg really killed off a lot of the internet competition, even moreso than amazon. And as crappy as newegg has gotten lately, holy poo poo they're still way better than some of the pre-newegg options. If you weren't around back then you have no idea. poo poo was dire. Like, buying something from loving Tiger Direct and getting the wrong product in an opened box? And then having them try to charge you a restock fee for the open box, when that was how it was when you got it? That wasn't a lead story in the enthusiast press. That was a tuesday.
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Oct 28, 2022 18:24
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Oh man. Tiger Direct was already barrel-scrapingly bad in the days when Gateway 2000 was a low-budget direct operation whose entire marketing budget was several pages of ads in Computer Shopper (which I've just learned, somehow struggled on until 2009 -- I don't think I ever saw an issue after about 1998). If youtube had existed in the mid-late 1990s, Gamers Nexus would have had a steady stream of reviews tearing apart Tiger Direct prebuilts.
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Oct 28, 2022 18:55
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Last time I went PC building, I found most of my stuff on Newegg and used that to get it all organized, then used google to find the majority of the parts on amazon/B&H/etc and bought them there. Because Amazon's built in search is the most garbage search in the known universe. I don't know how Amazon does it really, you search for, I donno, say stationary supplies and the search shows you car parts and apparel instead because you might need a car and clothes to mail a letter or some poo poo. Its so loving random.
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Oct 28, 2022 19:03
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Amazon's trying to push "similar but not what you asked for" items that improve their profit margins. It's not exactly a new scam. Same reason their categorization/filtering is complete poo poo, if you can find what you actually wanted you won't stop to buy other things. Or at least that's what the MBAs running this poo poo think. The one time I tried ordering from B&H as soon as I placed it they emailed me to go "surprise! we said it was in stock but it's not. we'll get back to you" and then they got back to me a month later by cancelling my order.
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Oct 28, 2022 19:14
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Klyith posted:Pcpartpicker isn't exactly authoritative. For example they don't index Microcenter at all.
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Oct 28, 2022 22:57
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