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Higurashi EP II Spoilers Ahead Well let's recap cause it's been a minute Reminders that I've played Umineko and been spoiled on one plot point from the game, the parasite disease thing that makes people crazy Characters first. Rena - At first I'd assumed that her going wild at her out of town school was some sort of side effect of the latent levels of crazy disease in the town like in Pathologic. But thinking about it now I think it might actually just be that some of the more "Crazy" aspects are just Keichi projecting under the influence of the disease and her actual "Freak out" was just a symptom of her family being torn apart. The only reason she isn't acting out back in Hinamizawa is that she got a surrogate family group in the Game club Mion - Seemingly the heir of the Sonozaki family, to the chagrin of her twin sister she's the leader of the game club and a sort of town representative of the village to the outsiders. She also seems to know a bit more than she lets on and is pretty distrustful of Adult outsiders like the nurse and the Photoman. They also mentioned that her family is one of three power players in town. I assume hers is the economic one with it functioning much like a yakuza family mixed with a town chief. Rika would be the religious family, then I wondered about Satoko but I'm unsure Satoko - I know little about her. Her bro died last year and both her need to create traps and her attachment to Keichi seem to be a reaction to that. She doesn't want to become a victim so she learnt to defend herself even if she's smol. And Keichi just reminds her of her bro, something that comes up heavily in EP1. It also seemed implied that her family is gone and she lives with Rika, presumably at the Temple complex? Rika - I think she knows more than she let's on. Her parents were some of the victims of the supposed curse. Seems the most in touch with the religious customs of the village. The Chief - Detective that wants to solve the case. Odd dude, it seems he wants to get to the bottom of it before he retires, but it's heavily implied that the Cops helped cover up the poo poo that went down at the dam. Maybe a guilty conscience Photoman - Supposed bird watcher. Seems to actually be investigating. Possibly journalist possibly some sort of cop or military. Dating the Nurse, maybe pumping for information perhaps is an accomplice of hers. The Nurse - Seems to be the one who blasted crazy drugs into Keichi first EP. Clinic is mentioned as being huge for the town and having a bus port despite the Town barely being on maps. Went missing last EP. Shion - Massive troll, lives in the adjacent city, seems to want either Mion's life or her position at least. Need to find a tell to tell them apart. I can only vaguely remember it but I had some sort of working theory over the Meta aspect that was something like that old Nickelodeon show. Basically the Dam actually burst and all the characters had to flee. They come back later and start telling ghost stories and playing games. The Game scenes are just them actually playing the games, and then as the night goes on the creepy stories start. Each person gets one and each keeps trying to one up the last one while also incorporating the old details of the town. So Keichi if he's the first EP tells a story that incorporates a lot of his anxiety about moving to town and making friends in a strange town. Then Mion is next and incorporates a twin Sister that may or may not exist and prey's on the anxiety about the town legends she knows Keichi has. Anyways let's get back to it. We're being questioned, I think Photoman and Nurse caught a case of being dead and us shrine invaders are the suspects Who is this Kumagi and why does he get a sprite Nurse was found dead and so was Photoman. Nurse had her corpse burnt, that's a faked death. Tomitake was a suicide, presumbly like Keichi's in EP1 Lmao Shion Gaslighting Keichi that Oyashiro is gonna get them both. That's gotta be her plan, rile up Keichi until he's insane enough to try and kill Shion before he goes. Then switch places with Mion. Bam, she got revenge on her sister and her sister's boyfriend in one swipe. The scrapbook notes finally give me confirmation of the familial triumvirate that's running the village. It seems I was right about Rika and Mion's roles, but the last family is the mayoral one and seems to be named Kimiyoshi. I thought maybe that was Satoko's family, but I think she has a differing last name. Mion's Mom is named Oryou and is basically a dictator I guess. Late Night Phone Call TIP Kimiyoshi's son answers the phone. It seems the mayor is missing and Shion is pretending to be Mion, she doesn't put on her Grandma and deflects. Is Shion trying to tear apart the whole village not just the Sonozaki's? We get back in class and get some knowledge dropped about Satoko's bro. He got disappeared supposedly but he also seems to have taken out all his cash and hopped a train. Did he get the crazy virus, but then get paranoid enough to actually leave and in turn leave Satoko with abandonment issues? We confront Rika about the Bad poo poo we did the other day. She's covered in weeds so she was out somewhere. I;m guessing Shion told her what happened, but is probably framing Mion. Or maybe the Mion that showed up is Shion. Idk rn I don't know if it's intentional or if my brand of thinking is overly analytical but I really have no idea who is Shion or Mion in any given scene.
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Oct 28, 2022 18:00
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| # ? May 29, 2024 11:35 |
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Yay, Gaius' Higurashi speculation is back. No comments for now (most are reserved for later chapters).
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Oct 28, 2022 22:45
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wait Higurashi Rei came out???
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Oct 28, 2022 22:54
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 Happy Halloween! I just stole the pic from some other guy 'cause hell if I'm gonna watch the Seacats Animation ever again
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Oct 31, 2022 22:22
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I finished episode 4 last week! I thought that the whole 1998 story missed a lot of its potential and was way too long for what it was trying to be. I mentioned before how I disagree with the trajectory for that storyline. Ange got a worse perspective on abuse than what she started out with. And the power of love allows her to... have better magic for killing a bunch of faceless goons? The first tea party was excellent. I've been wanting more of this since the showdown in episode 3. Then the second tea party undermined a lot of that, but didn't actually build enough new stuff to make up for it. Overall, I think that Ryukishi pulls off this anti-mystery stuff the best when he doesn't actively call attention to it. Like, I think it's hilarious that Battler would need to explain the verbal descriptions of the spells in a future episode. But having the characters talk about how Battler has not actually solved a single mystery and how Ange's involvement was a waste erodes my suspension of disbelief. I'll see about starting episode 5 in a week or so. E: fixed the spoiler tags So Math fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Nov 2, 2022 |
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Nov 2, 2022 00:51
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Everything about Episode 6 is so freaking great.  The whole 'investigation' of the first twilight was one of my favorite moments I've read so far on the first time through, and knowing what's coming the whole time on this readthrough gave me actual chills.Still, even though I've figured out a lot of the overall themes, ideas, and a few of the major tricks, I'm having trouble putting it all together into something approaching coherence.
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Nov 4, 2022 18:04
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My partner and I are reading Umineko together and just finished episode 1. I binged episodes 1-8 in winter 2020, and she's never read it before. She mostly knows about it by me randomly going "Like, Umineko is the greatest work of literature ever created," when we're talking about media. She's enjoying it so far and made a few interesting points of speculation: (Full Umineko spoilers! Spoilers for 1-8!!!) Saw Kanon, immediately went "He's Kinzo's illegitimate son." Did not believe that the first twilight was real until Kanon died. She thought everyone in the shed was faking/not dead, but as the story got grislier she went "Huh, guess they really were killed." Repeatedly said "George is a loser, Rosa is a horrible mother, and Nanjo is useless." basically every time they appeared on screen. Her favorite character so far is Eva -- "She's awful to people for no reason and it's fantastic." She also said that Natsuhi was "The kind of character you should hate, but she's just trying so hard you can't help by find her sympathetic." As someone who Saw With Love and knows about the catbox, episode 1 is an incredible reread. The story is just telling you point blank that the servants are all conspiring together, Kinzo is already dead, that Eva thinks the shed murders were faked, etc. The scene that most stood out to me was when Battler eavesdrops on the servants in the kitchen. Kumasawa talking about how sad it is that Shannon died, but doesn't mention any of the other five people that died or the fact that three children were orphaned because as far as she knows, Shannon was the only one to truly 'die'. Everyone looks Battler in the eye and says "In this room with Genji, Kumasawa, Kanon; Beatrice 'exists' and is present." When Battler slams his hands on the kitchen counter and proclaims that he won't be fooled by the convenient lies of the occult, that he will never stop thinking, and he will tear the fake skin of the witch off of the culprit and reveal their true form -- Kanon swoons. It's absolutely incredible and so, so clear when your vision is guided by love. Scrree fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Nov 6, 2022 |
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Nov 6, 2022 01:15
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Episode 1 owns!
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Nov 6, 2022 05:32
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Nyoro posted:Episode 1 owns! The stageplay adapts episode 1, and does it in a way that I honestly consider the stageplay the best way to get people into Umineko. (That's why I started up a translation group for it.)
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Nov 6, 2022 07:39
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Hell yeah! Nyoro posted:Episode 1 owns! Hell yeah! Cyouni posted:The stageplay adapts episode 1, and does it in a way that I honestly consider the stageplay the best way to get people into Umineko. Hell yeah! (Haven't dealt with subtitles in nearly a decade but if there's anything I can do to help make this happen—DMs are open, as they say.)
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Nov 6, 2022 11:11
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Nyoro posted:No do it welp half of this fell apart during my party, i think the blonde wig I had lasted about two drinks, i clipped most of the other gold butterflies i had to other people when they weren't paying attention (lol), and the bustle (the rear end-pillow that makes the dress poofy) is still MIA but still-   e: literally within an hour of posting this I got a scam message from a social media app I never use that never gets messages and only keep around for semi-deprecated work stuff, from “Beatrice”; I don’t think “Congratulation! You have won free IPaD from Apple” is within her spells, though. Rockman Reserve fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Nov 7, 2022 |
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Nov 6, 2022 21:28
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Continued Umineko 6 reread thoughts, currently up to where Zepar and Furfur run the second twilight while Battler is catatonic and stuck in his logic error: -I finished reading Higurashi while I was doing Umineko the first time through so this is a bit muddied in my head - does Umineko fall into first-person often, or is it really just when Battler is trapped in the guest room? It stuck out a lot this time around but I can't remember if it should. -When Erika first corners him in the room, before she reveals that she loving killed everyone, Battler's first response is to have Kyrie come and save him....but the text refers to her as "his mother's piece"....?!?! -Kumasawa being Virgilia who used to be Beatrice raises some weird questions in my mind about what the gently caress was going on in Kuwadorian - but it seemed like whoever lived or was being held there died or left in '68? About the conclusion: -Even knowing how Battler resolves the logic error, I have no idea what I'm supposed to take away from it. No matter how I try to frame it with the tricks of the narrative, it seems to get cut off with red truth. In particular, the truths of "Of course. Three people--in other words, three bodies--went in or out. Only you and Kanon entered, and only Battler left. It has already been said in red that all people can only use their own names. Therefore, the names Erika, Battler, and Kanon can only be used by those people." and "Battler and Kanon are different people." It's....gotta be the difference between "people" and "humans" that seems to pop up. But even so, I don't know how that squares with the "three bodies" comment. I'm hoping that by rereading it already knowing the conclusion I can reach some truth, especially with my (slightly) better (hopefully) understanding of "love" in the game. But still, ugh. -Even if it is some grand trick about 'people', the whole sequence seems really weird since Battler reached the truth of the witch's game at the end of Episode 5. If he really knows everything and the solution hinges on some understanding of the cast involved that's not immediately apparent, it seems like he never should have been cornered by the logic error in the first place. Except Episode 6 really leans on stuff like retroactive moves and declarations to emphasize that the game board doesn't operate like objective reality - so does that mean that the revelation at the end that frees him from the guest room is something he just used in this particular game, that can't be applied (or can't be applied in the same way) to the previous games? Is it something new that he's either discovered or created/written himself that retroactively works within the framework of the other games? It just seems like the way it's presented, "Battler finally understands everything" is not actually a binary yes/no question.
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Nov 7, 2022 21:26
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The hunger grew inside of me, so I started reading Higurashi when my partner's busy. I was pretty loose with spoilers for Higurashi after I finished Umineko, so there a couple spoilers I believe I know about the story. Here's what I think I've had spoiled for me: [All Higurahi spoilers]  Here's my big theories having just finished episode 1 + read Gaius Marius' posts on episode 1 [Going to say spoilers for all of Higurashi, since my speculation may be guided by the aforementioned things I know that I shouldn't] On Keichi:  On Rena:  On the rest of the club members:  On the big metaplot of 'Oyashiro-sama's Curse & the village conspiracy'  I feel like reading Umineko has given me a toolset with which I can read Higurashi and speculate about it at least semi-intelligently. But also I may be (and would be happy to be) wildly missing every swing here. I'm excited to go into episode 2, and while the 'slice-of-life' stuff does drag a bit the fact that I know the author is putting answers on the table even if I can't yet see them makes it more interesting. Favorite scene: "It's not weird for me to practice my swing." "Yes! It is weird!" Saddest scene: Rena covering for Keichi by saying she hurt her fingers while cooking.
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Nov 8, 2022 00:38
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Rockman Reserve posted:Continued Umineko 6 reread thoughts, currently up to where Zepar and Furfur run the second twilight while Battler is catatonic and stuck in his logic error: Consider if that it might not be that Battler can't escape using that method, but Won't
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Nov 8, 2022 00:46
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I'll add that I'm enjoying your speculation Scree, even if I can't reply. I will say that some of your speculation was amusing with hindsight. Also, what did you use to create the Umineko style posts?
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Nov 8, 2022 01:08
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To all the speculation in the thread, I have but one thing to say: ahaha.wav
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Nov 8, 2022 01:24
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here's what I have to say: drat we should have a WTC gang tag or something
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Nov 8, 2022 02:55
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MegaZeroX posted:I'll add that I'm enjoying your speculation Scree, even if I can't reply. I will say that some of your speculation was amusing with hindsight. https://hikukastel.net/generator/generator.html
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Nov 8, 2022 13:41
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Quick phone posting speculation [higurashi episode 2] So the photographer died again, the police found a stripped, female body burned in an oil drum. Both Mion and the police detective asked "Did you see the photographer, the nurse.... Or Shion?" And when Keichi mumbled that he might've seen Shion or Mion he was told "they were wearing totally different clothing; you'd be able to tell them apart." But if we spin the chessboard around, aren't they saying the only way to tell Mion and Shion apart is their clothing? The burned body was stripped -- their clothing is still at large. Only 'Shion' told Keichi the nurse was the body in the barrel, and if my suspicions are right, that was actually Mion. Rest in peace Shion, you heard a small child jumping up and down on a totami mat while trying to steal your sister's boyfriend and died. May you return next game with honor.
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Nov 8, 2022 17:54
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I started reading episode 5. Here is a shitpost I hope you will enjoy.
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Nov 8, 2022 23:42
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Gaius Marius posted:Consider if that it might not be that Battler can't escape using that method, but Won't I mean, okay, that gels with my understanding so far - like, it's not really okay to out someone else. The duel of the second twilight is also kind of obvious from some of the dialogue. Something like "this is strange, Zepar, normally when there is a duel over love, it's two people fighting over a third! But this is.....not that!" So Math posted:I started reading episode 5. Here is a shitpost I hope you will enjoy. new theory: everything is a hosed up love confession in the form of a murder mystery program set inside a Holodeck style simulation attraction at Krauss's Disney World On The Moon which totally didn't fail after all, and I'm only like a third kidding E: oh my god is it a theme park called the golden land because I would die laughing E2: Jesus episode 6 is not subtle at all when it comes down to it, is it Rockman Reserve fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Nov 10, 2022 |
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Nov 9, 2022 05:56
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Okay, got to the end of Episode 6, and since I basically started my reread with the epilogue to 6 I think I might go on to 7 now. Does the voice mod change the translation? Because the declaration and counter at the very end is definitely "humans" and "humans" in the voice mod version, despite me being hung up on it before (and it only making sense as red truth as "people" vs "humans"). And I'm dumb as hell but I feel like even I would have picked up on Battler in the flashback scene talking about how he'd want to be with someone rowdy and rude, "without worrying about gender" Anyway, on to some thoughts: Okay, I get it now, I think. And even if I don't get it all, whatever, I can see a lot of different truths. I at least understand the heart of Beatrice's tale that she didn't want exposed until the end, even if frankly it raises a lot more questions about Battler, George and Jessica. With that base understanding though, I'm pretty sure I could go through the other three games I haven't re-read and pick apart the tricks. I'm not sure whether they would even all point to the same culprit, I don't remember the murders of 2-4 well at all. But between the twisted and tortured logic of the closed room puzzles so far, and the There Are Only 17 Humans On the Island reveal with all the tricks that entails, I'm pretty confident I could make a few theories for everything. Maybe they'd all tie together, maybe not. I absolutely do not understand why the "hello, I'm the detective, the visitor, the 18th human on the island" is Erika's last-ditch red truth. Like, maybe she was using her final turn to make the detective declaration and see the truth before she died, or maybe she had finally figured out the trick and wanted to be stuck in a logic error instead of obliterated....but honestly, neither of those seem like Erika's style, and she acts so insanely confident. But I don't see how it's meant to be an attack at all. .... oh wait it's probably because Beatrice didn't want to expose her secret until the very end, and Erika was being a malicious little dweeb, that all fits. Misunderstanding retracted, I guess. Still unsure about the Golden Land, unless it's like....just the real world outside the game board. But I'm not sure what that implies about everything. Same for the gold, same for the future stuff. I mean, LD refers to Ange as Bern's piece, so frankly the future stuff could all be a part of the game outside of the weekend of the family conference, like the scenes with Natsuhi's phone calls in Episode 5. But again, I'm not sure what that implies at all. Last thought - the CG's added to the voice mod version are fantastic, but the one at the end of episode 6 was so good I was cracking up hard. "Oh poo poo! The Golden Witches have a gun!" I think something in my brain snapped and connected it to that "LOTR if Merry and Pippin had a gun" meme and I just lost it. E: okay I reread the tea party and ???? and now I’m remembering some thoughts I had from episode 5 about not wanting to dig too deep. The whole rotting meat scene with Bern and Augustus seems like a huge warning to that extent. ….I mean, I’m still obviously going to read it, but with the understanding that it’s probably going to cast everything in the worst light possible. Rockman Reserve fucked around with this message at 10:38 on Nov 11, 2022 |
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Nov 11, 2022 08:58
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somebody stop me my mouse cursor keeps edging over towards Episode 7
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Nov 12, 2022 02:30
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read it read it read it read it read it read it ahaha.wav
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Nov 12, 2022 02:34
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Rockman Reserve posted:somebody stop me my mouse cursor keeps edging over towards Episode 7 https://youtu.be/gjEmwvsIhuE
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Nov 12, 2022 02:39
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DemoneeHo posted:read it read it read it read it read it read it but...but.... it seems very much like a bad idea! I don't want to get lured into the darkness by bloody meat!! Are the answers really worth possibly sullying the truths I've already reached?!  this owns e: fine i'm starting it but i might put it on hold idk also, low-key one of the best things about 07th-mod is that it fixes the bug where if you alt-tab away from Umineko while it's loading the title screen, it locks your mouse to the 7thExpansion website button even if the window isn't in focus and is behind a bunch of other poo poo e2: nope drat it i'm going to check out everyone's alibis Rockman Reserve fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Nov 12, 2022 |
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Nov 12, 2022 02:43
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I wouldn't hesitate to play the last two episodes.
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Nov 12, 2022 03:34
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I got spooked when like two minutes in the inquisitors of heresy were about to point out the culprit, or at least someone without an alibi for everything.  It's me, I'm the detective, and I'm terrible.e: on the other hand my reread save for 2 is awkwardly split between GOG with a patch and my Steam Deck and it's driving me crazy Rockman Reserve fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Nov 12, 2022 |
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Nov 12, 2022 03:37
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I finished Higurashi Watanagashi, (spoilers for Higurashi episodes 1-2) After reading Higurashi 1, I had a lot of hunches. I don't nearly as many after reading Watanagashi, but that's okay because almost all of my original hunches were completely wrong. * The entire finale felt like what would be another novel's ending plopped into this (i.e. Higurashi as a whole) story's first quarter. The history of Hinamizawa, the status of the Sonozaki family, Mion's role in the family were all huge mysteries from the first game, and a lot of time was spent sketching out 'adequate' answers. The Sonozaki's were 'simply' the enforcers for a social hierarchy of self-proclaimed half-demons who held a local rule of terror in the distant past, faced decline and discrimination at the turn of the industrial era, and revived thanks to the black market dealings of a guy who just happened to serve in Japan's bioterror scientific cannibalism research unit and ended up with several tons of maybe human flesh to sell at a discount. Due to all that when Mion Sonozaki gets hurt by a dumb boy she has a crush on and trolled by her twin sister she kills several children. Roll credits, story ends. * The tea party basically calls this out, but the answers provided are insufficient to the questions raised. * It's late and I'm tired. There were bodies found with times of death that predate their owners attending public events. Two nine-year-olds are unsupervised platonic housemates. One dude still inexplicably ripped his own throat out. Why does Keichi need to die? Or to put it another way, why can't Keichi Maebara stop dying constantly? [i]Why, even when the humans who committed the crimes die, do the incidents keep continuing?[/i Why does Rena only take action after Keichi commits to taking action, even though she solved the crime basically the minute she investigated Rika's and Satoko's house. * Oyashiro's curse was important to Rena, and people talked about it a lot in 'her route'. It barely showed up in Mion's route at all -- instead, things important to her were brought up again and again, even by ancillary characters. Who is telling these stories? And why? * Saddest scene: I didn't particularly sad at anything, honestly. * Coolest scene: Mion: "How did you know what I said over the phone?" * The logic of the Sonozaki-lead Hinamizawa that Mion said her grandmother spread -- if one throws stones at you, have two throw stones back, etc. -- is one of constant escalation until the entire village is mobilized. * Mion wanted (or at least it superficially implies that she wanted) Keichi to stop lying to her and apologize forthrightly for both breaking sacred taboo and being a utter blockhead. Why did she pretend to be Shion and spin a yarn to make him think "If I tell anyone they'll die next.". I really don't understand what she wanted from those phone calls.
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Nov 12, 2022 06:51
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umineko Episode 7 sucks and I loving hate Bernkastel kyrie murdering people was kinda badass tho battler please come back from the milk store Yaoi Gagarin fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Nov 12, 2022 |
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Nov 12, 2022 18:40
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started episode 8 babby ange is adorable
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Nov 12, 2022 19:49
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Scrree posted:Why does Keichi need to die? Or to put it another way, why can't Keichi Maebara stop dying constantly? The below includes mild Umineko reference spoilers 
MegaZeroX fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Nov 21, 2022 |
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Nov 12, 2022 19:50
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I'm in episode 4 and the game has started! I know too many spoilers to get the full effect of the man from 19 years ago, but it does raise some questions about how much Natsuhi knows about the skeletons in the closet. (She is way too proper to have a bastard of her own running around anyway.) Lambda and Bern talking about genre expectations is an obvious troll, since it's Bern's self-insert who is breaking the mystery conventions that she was advocating for in her previous scene. I know that Battler is a meathead and Beatrice is a tsundere, so they're supposed to get together eventually, but it feels really forced so far. I'm much more interested in the story on the game board than I am in the meta-narrative framing device. I do like that Kyrie's interest in the Ushiromiya family contrasts with her experience with her birth family. In her backstory, Kyrie is the hyper-competent first born who jumps ship at the last minute and leaves a younger sibling in charge to make sure the family will continue. Here, the oldest sibling is a dolt and Kyrie is helping the younger siblings get a piece. But she isn't concerned with the longevity of the main family, she's happy to get Rudolf his $200 million and leave Krauss's family in shambles Here's a Battler doodle. 
So Math fucked around with this message at 13:22 on Nov 14, 2022 |
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Nov 14, 2022 13:19
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Dread of the Grave - More Fear is such a good loving song and I get insanely pumped whenever it comes up in the story. Not much else to add, still burning away on my rereads of 2-4 now I guess. It's kind of wild how it's just not very subtle at all once you see around some of it. I still am only 80% sure I know who Beatrice is, or at least who's acting as Beatrice in 2. but there are really only two possibilities and both of them seem pretty plausible and make a lot of elements of the mystery work. I'm pretty sure it's Jessica, but it could plausibly be Shannon as well. All the stuff I was so quick to write off when she interacts with the family (so far on my reread, at least) makes a lot of sense if you assume one of them sat as the model for the painting and leaned into it as a way to escape their respective Ushiromiya/Rokkenjima cages. But I don't know, I'm going to keep reading with my eyes open and maybe seriously move on to 7 when I'm good and ready.
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Nov 15, 2022 00:26
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Rockman Reserve, I love you as a poster and a goon, but for your own sake please consider getting ready for ep7 sooner rather than later
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Nov 15, 2022 01:24
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LordMune posted:Rockman Reserve, I love you as a poster and a goon, but for your own sake please consider getting ready for ep7 sooner rather than later I seriously stopped right at the line "The one without an alibi is...." and on the one hand I'm going to kick myself if the next line actually gives it away and I'm like OH DUH, but on the other hand I'm going to kick myself for entirely different reasons if I continue on and it finishes the sentence with like, ".....Will!" or something - I only know he exists from a manga cover. But you're probably right, I'm driving myself nuts here.
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Nov 15, 2022 01:27
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My kids, and my kid's kids, and their children too will still be able to log onto somethingawful.com and check the Umineko thread for Rockmans latest update to almost starting EP.7
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Nov 15, 2022 01:31
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Rockman Reserve posted:I seriously stopped right at the line "The one without an alibi is...." and on the one hand I'm going to kick myself if the next line actually gives it away and I'm like OH DUH, but on the other hand I'm going to kick myself for entirely different reasons if I continue on and it finishes the sentence with like, ".....Will!" or something - I only know he exists from a manga cover. It's not even the same case that Will is working on
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Nov 15, 2022 01:32
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My legacy to the masses. E: oh, word? Hmmm. Rockman Reserve fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Nov 15, 2022 |
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Nov 15, 2022 01:32
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| # ? May 29, 2024 11:35 |
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funny how after saying that next episode Keiichi got through as one of the Most Not Dead people of the whole cast (i mean he still died but the boy went the distance this time) I pushed through Higurashi 3 + 4, and then Rena in the Tea Party asked me stop, think, and take some time to theorize and speculate. Now, before the answer arc would unleash waves of truth that will surely wash away my hunches like so many towers of sand, was "the most fun Higurashi would ever be", so, higurashi 1-4 spoilers, taking the big shot first: the Tragedy of Hinamizawa will be averted when Keiichi's mom happens to be reading a mafia-themed mystery and over breakfast explains to him the concept of omerta, finally allowing Keiichi to realize that after Watanagashi Sunday comes Shut The gently caress Up Monday. Since I'm basing my speculation off my first read through I'm going to list out points of interest/mystery for characters (ones with sprites) and episodes, since I think if I just tried to do one I wouldn't be broad enough and my memory would slip. Keiichi * Our main boy is very good at imagining 3-d shapes if he's properly motivated. His only weakness is everything else. *That's a little harsh, I actually appreciate how Keiichi kept escalating trying to help Satoko in episode 3. He could not accept a society that would let his friend be trapped in an abusive household, and that's righteous in the same way walking away from Omelas is. It's just, he hosed up the execution of that escalation so, so badly. * One of the big issues with being stuck inside Keiichi's perspective is that Keiichi has a hard time dealing with the concept of 'lies'. He never thinks "why are they lying?" or "what are they trying to communicate to me?", and instead gets stuck in insane recursive thought patterns like "The person I was speaking too has been replaced with 'someone else'" and generally falls into a harmful paranoia. * In episode 2, while he's listening to someone talk about how Mion and Shion used to be confused with each other all the time and people had a hard time distinguishing them, Keiichi goes "Oh, I can empathize with that." and then thinks "it's too much of a bother to explain, though." don't think I've forgotten Keiichi, that's an incredibly weird thing to say!!! * It's weird how he doesn't know anything about his dad's art. I can't distinguish if it's a "haha dad draws boobies" otaku joke or something more meaningful Rena * Favorite character. It's very funny how patient she has to be with Keiichi, and every time she decides to break kayfabe to scold him it's always exciting. * Has gotten lots of character development since episode 1, but basically no new details on her backstory. 'Who Rena is' is a question the text has done a really good job of fleshing out, but 'why' she is and 'what' she wants has been kept veiled. It's thought provoking in a lot of ways and I don't know if I'm overreaching when I feel like there's a connection between "She attacked three boys when they were in a storage shed at her old school." and how she comforted Satoko after her trauma attack triggered by Keiichi's touch. * Is basically the only person to say Oyashiro's curse can be caused by trying to leave Hinamizawa. That's weird. Mion * i cant believe i called her not implicated in crimes in episode 1 my god mion sonozaki loving loves crimes * I have no idea what the gently caress went down with her in episode 2 like, at all. * Mion was raised in an environment where insinuations and stray comments would literally decide people's life and death, and has the tragic misfortune of having a crush on the World's Bluntest Boy Keiichi Maebara. Her episode 1+3 post watanagashi lines are basically all screaming at keiichi, sonozaki style, to stop talking to the loving cops and stop trying to snitch on the murder he committed and all keichii gives back is a deer in the headlights stare. * okay back to episode 2 when she's holding the ladder for keiichi while they are looking for Rika and Satoko she gets the "Hinamizawa eyes" and starts shaking and muttering about how Satoko is a cursed child who has moved from tragedy to tragedy and that's why it's SATOKO'S fault and RIKA had to go missing and and and -- and later, when she's confessing to punished Keiichi, she says that she called Rika over to kill her and did not predict that Satoko would decide to call and come over. So at one point it's Rika who's caught in Satoko's cursed fate, and later it's the opposite. There's just an incoherence there that I cannot thread. * In episode's were she isn't a demon possessed corpse, she and Rena generally get incredibly tense after Watanagashi. I wonder what Tomitake's death looks like from her perspective? I feel like there may be a thread where Mion/the Sonozaki's started the Oyashiro's curse killings, but haven't been the ones continuing them (i.e. the one's targeting the Furude's and Satoko's aunt/brother) * the falling out with her father, the absence of her mother, her weird, weird relationship with Shion -- is there a low burn Sonozaki civil war? Rika * I get the sense that being Rika in Higurashi 1-4 is pain. * Living incarnation and embodiment of Oyashiro-sama. Someone has been building up the tale of Oyashiro's curse and (we can see by comparing it in episode 4 to the other episodes) the Watanagashi festival and somoone wants her ritually disemboweled in 1983. these are probably the same person and probably not mion sonozaki. * so far the extent of her divine powers is granting people prophecies which they invariably ignore to their own ruin. However, episode 4 seems to say that Rika can, through the timeloops or whatever is happening in Higurashi, 'influence the chessboard'. Her communicating with Akasaka opened a path, even if the chance of that being taken is incredibly low. given that... * Did she haunt Rena into moving back into Hinamizawa??? Rena is cool, observant, and pious -- that seems like a pretty necessary piece of 'stop being eternally disemboweled' puzzle. * Her and Satoko's living situation is simultaneously very cute in the 'wow, just two kids being roommates!' way and very messed up in the 'there should be an adult here; this is child abandonment' way. Satoko * jesus loving christ Satoko * Genuinely some of the most emotionally effecting scenes I've experienced in Higurashi are with her in episode 3. At the same time her situation is so methodically constructed, in a very logical and realistic manner, to be as gut-wrenching as possible. She is surrounded by people who care about her, know her, wish the best, would help her in any way they can , and they are powerless to do anything while the institutions invested with the power to save her sit complacent at a child's torment. * 'Record of Hate' is opaque to me, but my read on her in late episode 3 is A: committing to the bit to help sell Keiichi's alibi and B: traumatically disassociating from all of the pain of the last few days and terrified that Keiichi was going to get Satoshi'd away. She got into bath predicting that Keiichi would break in and save her, but failed to predict that he'd be off his loving rocker from paranoia and also the town was falling apart (the refrain about her traps was always "she can predict others perfectly right up to the last moment, but she can never see how it ends.) * If there is a continuation of episode 4 in any way she be a living witness? She was listed as missing in the episode 3 end credits. Shion * Mostly incomprehensible to me. Pretty sure she answered the phone call from Keiichi about picking Satoko up for the festival in episode 3. * She definitely thinks Mion killed her boyfriend's parents and then disappeared him, right? Those are (among?) the 'unforgivable things' mentioned in episode 2. * Like, she is still hung up on Satoshi and she is not a presence in Satoko's life at all because that would mean being near Mion and I think that legitimately pisses her off. Satoshi * Is probably dead, is maybe a ghost in a baseball bat, is definitely present in the story. Maybe kind of definitely possesses Keiichi through transcendental sibling magic??? * The threads were put together by Keiichi, who is pretty often just out of his loving mind for huge chunks of the episodes, but it definitely seems like Satoshi killed his abusive aunt but couldn't handle actually living with/hiding the crime and that's why he got disappeared. * Was talking to Ooishi before he got got. Ooishi * Motherfucker took Keiichi to Angel Mort to 'discretely chat'. Dude is completely okay getting (multiple??) kids minced up as long as it gives him a chance to catch the Sonozaki's slipping. * Hey, is it me or is it weird how worse the relationship between the people of Hinamizawa and the city police department is 5 years after the dam project got suspended. Akasaka (though he was concussed at the time) literally drank with the village elders and felt that all the animosity stemmed from the political project of the dam, which had been settled in Hinamizawa's favor. Half a decade goes by and Mion openly regrets not having Ooishi killed. There is a hatred that has been festering for years and years and I w o n d e r w h o w o u l d w a n t t h a t ? * In episode 4 he regrets having a bad case of the shits and letting his junior officer go out alone and get disappeared, but from episode 3 we know that even if Ooishi had been there it just would've meant that both got got. That night, Ooishi stumbled onto something important. Something that not even years of policing Hinamizawa would prepare him for. Chie * Literally a character from Tsukihime I know they openly joke about it in the tea parties but oh my god it's literally Ciel. * Very hard to read into actually important scenes like how she throws Keiichi at Ooishi in episode 1, or how she deals with Satoko's situation in episode 3 because she is actually a parody character of Ciel from Tsukihime. * The curry jokes aren't funny Coach/ Dr. Irie(sp?) * I'm not going to look up his name because I am sure searching it will immediately pop spoilers. * IMMEDIATE BAD VIBES. Part of it may, maaaaaay be mangagamers fault because the achievement for finishing the "Coach hosts a barbecue!" chapter is called "Mystery Meat" and you CANNOT DO THAT in a game that's already made direct mention to WW2 JAPAN BIOTERROR RESEARCH UNIT, CANNIBALISM DIVISION. But even before that -- I got bad vibes. * Has not actually done anything too bad, but I can feel him say "Well my family moved to Hinamizawa after my father patriotically served Japan alongside Mion's grandfather as a leading researcher in the Doing Cannibalism Labs fufufu~~" * Inexplicably kills himself after interacting with Keiichi Maebara too much. Tomitake * Most doomed man Takano * Loves curses, hates secrets, simple as' * Her 'definitely didn't kill my boyfriend and put his bike in the back of my car' t-shirt does not make Keiichi Maebara ask any questions at all. * Hey, wait a minute, a low-key but big deal thing that happened in episode 3 is that Keiichi went to Mion and said "SoooooOooooomebody who definitely isn't Takano said you guys do murders?????" i wonder if that has anything to do with the town being obliterated. --- Episode 1 * When I first played through episode 1 I identified the themes of forgiveness and grudges as not just key, but supernatural. Once Keiichi feels like 'he is being targeted' he shuts down all honest communication with anyone but Ooishi (who he even kind of feels is playing him out as bait) and enters into an escalation cycle where his friend's -- mostly Rena's -- attempts to intervene and talk about how loving weird he's being are thought of as attacks and responded to accordingly. Like, maaaaaybe I'm wrong and Mion had something other than a marker in her hand at the end, but I feel in my gut that she and Rena were trying to deescalate the situation by doing 'fun club stuff with Keiichi' and show that they're still friends. * In my opinion, 'Keichi Maebara could not kill Reina Ryuuga and Mion Sonozaki without complete surprise.' * Yet looking back on it from the vantage point of episode 4, the supernatural elements have faded (blended?) into the setting of Hinamizawa itself. Hinamizawa is a place where the 'human' (breathtaking co-existence with nature, the school club and the best friends therein, the liberation of the countryside from the modern structures of mediocrity (i.e. keiichi's reflections on cram school), the ability to recognize and form social bonds with every person you see on the street) and the 'demon' (organized crime and familial nepotism are the true supportive pillars of the village, the fetid history of 'transcendent nobility' whose joy was to terrorize, torture, and cannibalize, the in-group out-group distinction where 'out-group' families like Satoko's can be picked apart and let to rot) exist not side-by-side, but messily interwoven with each other. *Like, Mion's introduction scene was her bugging Keiichi about if he picked up any import board games while he was in the city. Hold that conversation in the same context as young Mion Sonozaki reciting her grandmother's words to a small barn full of yakuza lieutenants -- it is absurd! But it's the truth of Hinamizawa and Keiichi cant bear it. * WHAT ARE THE FOOTSTEPS. WHEN, WHY DO THEY APPEAR AND WHEN DO THEY GO jesus christ do they even have anything to do with Keiichi and Tomitake ripping their own throats out??? * IIRC episode 1 is the only time we've seen Rena get hurt at all? Higurashi Episode 1: Onikakushi is, from the vantage point of episode 4, loving weird. it took me a long time to figure out why I felt that way, and in retrospect it's pretty obvious. Onikakushi is not just the first entry of Higurashi the mystery, it's the first entry of the Higurashi question arc. There are so many questions in episode 1 that have simply not been addressed by the proceeding three segments. You get to the end of Himatsubushi, you are immersed within the social history of Hinamizawa and it's tragic fate, you have heard the tale of the Sonozaki's and the Furude's and the [SATOKO FAMILY NAME HERE], you are tantalized by glimpses of family fortunes built from Imperial Japanese cannibal food surplus, and 8 generations foretold incarnations of deities, and big brothers who took a trip to blow their savings on a birthday present for their little sister but never came back, and, and you look back at Onikakushi and you wonder ----- why did Rena break those windows? She broke those windows for a reason. It's important. -- Episode 2 * The slice of life segment in 2 felt by far the longest of the 4, but it makes sense when you consider that it's vital not only for episode 2's own build and conclusion, but the unfunny curry segment is load-bearing to the first half of episode 3. * Not gonna lie, Shion got me. There's literally a tips where Rika goes "Hmm... Shion is Mion's little sister." but Mion acts so weird about the whole thing (and she definitely visited Keiichi's house as Shion) that it was easy to see that as Rika playing along. * Episode 2 is kind of dominated by two huge info dumps, the first by Takano and the second by Mion. Mion's is more interesting because she's less exhaustively mysterious as a person than Takano and also I think "We were demonic transcendents who ruled the surrounding region with a clawed hand of terror. Then modernity hit us like a sack of hammers and we became a spit-upon backwater, and all of neighbors hated us because again, demons. It was sad and hard. My name also has the character for demon in it, btw. Anyways, then my grandpa got back from serving in the BIOTERROR WARCRIMES UNIT, CANNIBALISM DIVISION and effectively rebuilt the village economy by selling surplus mystery meat on the black market." strikes the perfect balance of incredibly intriguing and absurd. * When is Mion, Shion, and Shion, Mion, and what does it mean when the demon takes over?l Did you see Takano? Did you see Tomitake? Did you see Shion? Why does the mayor disappear? Why does 'Shion' call Keiichi and make him scared of talking? The punishment for 'the ritual shed got broken into' being 'kill the incarnation of our guardian deity' is absurd, who would demand that? Why was Rika punished so sloppily that Satoko got swept up? Was what happened even a punishment? Demons haunt this episode. * There is a roaring incoherence to this episode that I cannot pierce. My only solace is that Rena, who seems to be the sharpest person in Hinamizawa, gets caught flatfooted by Mion's 'demonic transformation' and let's Keiichi get himself strapped to a torture rack. It's a rough time for everybody, is what I'm saying. *Why does Mion spare Keiichi in the dungeon, and then rip his guts out on his front lawn. Why does she say "I held on long enough" and also "I killed all those who I wanted to kill!"? Why do Mion ad Shion die in the same way? How does Keiichi Maebara die? Why are there corpses that predate the time of death? *Calling a shot - the consistent deaths of Takano and Tomitake after Watanagashi are not punishment by the villagers of Hinamizawa for them trespassing into the sacred storage shed -- I don't even think Mion knows about it if Keiiichi isn't there to flip a light switch on like a dolt. Higurashi Episode 2: Watanagashi is pretty cool and I'm looking forward to getting some answers. --- Episodes 3 & 4 * Honestly, it's late and I'm getting tired. I feel satisfied. I have had a lot of fun with the Higurashi question arc. Some thoughts on episodes 3 & 4: * The fact that episode 3 builds directly off of events that occurred within episode 2 is notable. For three episodes we saw through Keiichi Maebara's eyes for a few days before and after the 1983 Watanagashi festival. He wishes the happy days he has with his new friends would never end. They always end, often in ways so tragic it sinks the possibility of joy ever arising again. Keiichi is a lot more enmeshed in the village in episode 3 than he is in 1, but there isn't any causative logic (in terms of narrative logic it makes perfect sense) to it. He knows more things and people because he happens to, then Watanagashi happens and never stops happening. * I heard that ryushiki07 used to be a social worker before he became an author, and with Satoko's story it shows. I have, in a much lesser way than the brutality of Satoko's story, watched someone I care about get trapped in a bad household situation. The feeling of thinking through every possible action, every shelter to turn to, every argument to be made, and every figure of authority to beseech only to bitterly terminate at "Yeah, I guess I'm powerless here." is a really, really sad thing * Keiichi going "Yeah; all extraneous information is g o n e. All I have left is what I need for the perfect crime." only to be just adequate at murder and incredibly bad at getting away with murder is incredibly funny. What a loving doof. * There are a bunch of big mystery bombs at the end. Coach supposedly kills himself. Rika turns up dead and disemboweled. Then volcanic gas sweeps out of the swamp, covers the village, and basically everyone is gone. To most of these questions, I admit defeat and will await the answers in the episodes ahead. However, on one point I make a stand -- If Keiichi Maebara was in the river bed at the moment when volcanic gas 'should have swept through the river bed and killed him', the fact that he survived does not mean that Keiichi Maebara is magic! It means that the story about volcanic gases is a cover. Something else, from somewhere else, killed Hinamizawa. --- Theories * Part of the solution or 'winning turn' for Rika Furude will involve the one-in-a-million chance that, in 1983, Public Safety Officer Akasaka remembers Hinamizawa and decides to visit with his daughter. * Something in, under, or near Hinamizawa can produce human bodies. Maybe they're just clone corpses, maybe they're living people (that would explain demon Mion), but the 'body of Takano' inside the oil drum is NOT the same 'body of Takano' that we see around hinamizawa up to Watanagashi. Dr. irie/Coach is probably, no, DEFINITELY INVOLVED. He's got those mad WAR CRIME VIBES!! * Rena is probably due a really terrible death pretty soon. But in the end, she'll definitely do some incredibly cool stuff. * This is cheating, but in the intro video there is the CG of Shion blocking Keiichi from the hoodlums except Keiichi has blond hair. Keiichi does not have blond hair, Satoko does, which means that's probably Satoko's brother Satoshi. Sooooo, Keiichi might actually be like, spirit leaching memories from Satoshi's ghost? I guess the theory is that there will be an actual, textually confirmed metaphysical relation between Keiichi and Satoshi. * To loop back around, part of the winning turn for Rika Furude will be Keiichi learning at least some manners of omerta YOU LIVE IN CRIME VILLAGE KEIICHI, YOU DIPSHIT, YOU ASKED MION TO LITERALLY MURDER A GUY AND THEN SLOPPILY DID IT YOURSELF. you go to class the next day with all of your friend's covering your rear end like XL depends and you GET SCARED and THINK YOU PHASED SHIFTED INTO ANOTHER DIMENSION keiichii you moron. read a loving book once ever! *Actually, that reminds me, the concept of the Perfect Crime will be incredibly important to the mystery of Higurashi. The perfect crime is a crime with no beginning. When Keiichi and Takano meet, they are two killers both trying to enact a perfect crime on the same night. Keiichi is a child, and so his method is "Leave no evidence (but actually a ton, like jesus dude), have no alibi and plenty of motive". Takano's method is "begin the crime with my own corpse, making everything thereafter impossible. Unraveling that to it's source will be a big part of the journey through the answer arc. I'm not going to write anything like this again until I finish the series. Good loving god. Rena was right though, it was fun.
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Nov 15, 2022 03:28
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