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chaosapiant posted:I thought there already was a new/shiny/remastered version of Age of Mythology on Steam? It was a dog poo poo attempt and ran far worse than it had any right to.
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Oct 25, 2022 18:57
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Deakul posted:It was a dog poo poo attempt and ran far worse than it had any right to. That's good to know. I loved AoM back in the day, even more than AoE, and have more than once almost purchased the Steam version. Glad I didn't. I'll wait and see how this new version shakes out.
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Oct 25, 2022 19:01
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It's basically to Age of Empires 2 what age of Empires 2 HD was. Except that AoE 2 actually needed a rerelease to run properly on modern machines.
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Oct 25, 2022 19:26
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So it's kinda weird that Sins2 is entering EA tomorrow and there's still no gameplay, right?
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Oct 26, 2022 20:27
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I had no idea it was coming that soon lol, I thought it was months away at least. Yeah I guess that is weird.
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Oct 27, 2022 16:11
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It’s EA and not a real release though. Is it that weird that the pre-release version is going to be when people see pre-release gameplay?
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Oct 27, 2022 17:28
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First vid I've found of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlDvtGetbEw E: Oh, it's the lead of the Thrawn's Revenge mod. EE: OK, this is a very early alpha all right, most of the 2D art is pulled directly from the first game. It all looks a little...too familiar? Despite all their talk about turrets and such the early battles I've seen in that video are still pretty static. Mordja fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Oct 28, 2022 |
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Oct 28, 2022 01:53
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when SoaSE 1 came out me and a few of the warcraft 3 goons (gosh its been a long time) played it in matchmaking. it was very.... tiring? unexciting? and the community was awful. none of them were very skilled and they all wanted to take the game in worse directions. but maybe we were just being goon elitists. also it has that kind of plasticy Stardock UI feeling? anyways this doesn't really look like much of an improvement and now it's competing with all the other esports. idk man
Jinnigan fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Oct 29, 2022 |
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Oct 29, 2022 01:59
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Jinnigan posted:when SoaSE 1 came out me and a few of the warcraft 3 goons (gosh its been a long time) played it in matchmaking. it was very.... tiring? unexciting? and the community was awful. none of them were very skilled and they all wanted to take the game in worse directions. but maybe we were just being goon elitists. also it has that kind of plasticy Stardock UI feeling? anyways this doesn't really look like much of an improvement and now it's competing with all the other esports. idk man Why don't you try Purple War
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Oct 29, 2022 02:47
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Love Stole the Day posted:Why don't you try Purple War i dont really mis the halycon days of learning build orders and having the same first ~5 minutes of every game be the same honestly i just don't miss RTS as a genre, especially once MOBAs blew up. plus if i ever want the feeling of dunking on a nerd ill just boot up some apex legends
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Oct 29, 2022 02:57
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Jinnigan posted:and now it's competing with all the other esports Jinnigan posted:honestly i just don't miss RTS as a genre, especially once MOBAs blew up. E:You realize the vast majority of people don't play RTS competitively or in some cases even once touch pvp right??
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Oct 29, 2022 03:01
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can confirm, im the guy with hundreds of hours in AoE2 all singleplayer
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Oct 29, 2022 03:17
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Forums User Jinnigan is now officially diagnosed with Esports Brain™
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Oct 29, 2022 03:34
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lmao imagine playing rts for the esports
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Oct 29, 2022 03:39
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A human opponent will almost always be more interesting to play against than an AI. If some folks want to only play singleplayer content (and that's the majority of RTS player, for sure) then that's fine an all. But the #1 way to actually get the most strategic experience from a real-time strategy game is by playing against another human(s). I have to imagine that a part of the reason why strategy games tend to be so singleplayer-dominant (again, only a part of the reason) is how poorly designed an unintuitive they are. Unit/faction variety leads to a huge amount of complexity, strategy games are a genre that are heavily dependent on lots of RNG and math crunching (of stats are aren't usually easily accessible to the player), and overall they tend to rely on memorizing build orders, studying charts, and practicing micro. Plus poor UI and unintuitive design. Most players don't want to have to go through all that bullshit just to be competitive, which makes singleplayer a much more enticing experience than multiplayer. It's a shame to see strategy games still stuck in this rut, when MOBAs (and similar games) solved most of these problems 10+ years ago.
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Oct 29, 2022 07:23
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I personally don’t play RTS games to get better. I just like building cool units, exploring neat tech trees and upgrades, and crushing the CPU. If there’s a cool campaign and story, that’s a huge bonus. I used to play WC3 online and eventually I got tired of how much my heart rate would spike during a match. It stopped being fun.
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Oct 29, 2022 07:29
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In every strategy game I play, I want to play against an AI that almost beats me, but instead I just barely beat it, and feel real good.
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Oct 29, 2022 08:23
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doctorfrog posted:In every strategy game I play, I want to play against an AI that almost beats me, but instead I just barely beat it, and feel real good. I remember talking to one of the devs of the Warlords games back in the 90s who told me that was his exact goal in making games.
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Oct 29, 2022 08:51
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RTS that depend on clicks-per-minute don't feel very strategic to me.
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Oct 29, 2022 10:09
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OperaMouse posted:RTS that depend on clicks-per-minute don't feel very strategic to me. Also this. One thing I wish ALL RTSs had, at least single player, is the ability to pause and still issue commands. I know Age of Mythology and Ago of Empires 2 allowed for this.
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Oct 29, 2022 12:12
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literally this big posted:strategy games are a genre that are heavily dependent on lots of RNG I don't know if this is really true! You could argue that the ur-strategy game is chess, or go. Both contain zero randomness. The most successful esports strategy games (SC1 & 2) feature almost zero rng. The biggest one is hit chance in SC1 (1/256 of shots in general and 45% of shots on high ground/covered units miss), the rest are very very minor and only come into play at the absolute top level, like larva/scv/creep movements, the (extremely minimal) random attack delay, and the fact that terran add-ons are placed to the right so your starting position matters a tiny bit. Other popular strategy games do often have more randomness at play, but not often directly influencing combat. E.g. aoe2 randomizes monk conversion time and archers have a percentage based hit chance, but that's basically it. The other big thing is map generation ofcourse, but that is a single point of randomness per game (with possibly a big impact on the game). Warcraft 3 did have more rng, and this carried over to mobas. I'd say there are barely any games decided on rng instead of skill/decisions. Other games e.g. from relic (company of heroes and dawn of war) have a ton of rng, but were never big in esports, and had small communities even at their peak. I think heavy rng really kills competitive strategy play. Why would you invest a lot of time and effort into a game where you could lose by being unlucky, regardless of your strategy and tactics?
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Oct 29, 2022 12:45
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The AI options in BAR are really cool even if they’re mostly just variants on kicking my rear end
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Oct 29, 2022 13:51
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doctorfrog posted:In every strategy game I play, I want to play against an AI that almost beats me, but instead I just barely beat it, and feel real good. its a challenge to get that dialed in!! that's why 4x games usually have like 10 difficulty settings and a ton of adjustable options now https://twitter.com/SorenJohnson/status/1586133969321758721 anyways i only ever play Civs on difficulty 4 out of 10, sometimes 5 if i'm feeling smug Jinnigan fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Oct 29, 2022 |
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Oct 29, 2022 13:54
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well its interesting to learn things about yourself on reflection. for me 4x games are where i go to cruise and have a good time. i set the difficulty to where i don't have to do anything i would consider unpleasant and tedious micro. as for RTS games i like to play multiplayer, sit up and go as hard as i can.
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Oct 29, 2022 14:02
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literally this big posted:A human opponent will almost always be more interesting to play against than an AI. If some folks want to only play singleplayer content (and that's the majority of RTS player, for sure) then that's fine an all. But the #1 way to actually get the most strategic experience from a real-time strategy game is by playing against another human(s). Jesus, as a wee lad in the late 90s and early 2000s, I really never once thought about any of that garbage when playing. It was more or less just learning what's weak or strong through playing the campaign, buying every tech upgrade I can afford, making cool bases with a million resource gatherers, blobbing up an army and sending it on over to the enemy. I only ever played an RTS online with Warcraft 3 and that was specifically for all of the custom games where competition still didn't matter much. I really miss RTSes and absolutely hate that everyone got hung up on the wrong poo poo and killed an entire genre because of it.
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Oct 29, 2022 14:04
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I do think strategy needs a certain kind of randomness. Otherwise it's just a calculation/optimization puzzle (+ execution is real time). Miss/crit/etc is not really the right kind of randomness though. Ideally in a strategy game you're coming up with plans during the game, but in reality you're going into the game with a set strategy and then you pivot into a limited number of mid/late-game canned strategies based on what your opponent chooses out of their limited set of strategies. You should load into the game and have a set time to look at what you've got and what's available and be thinking "well what the gently caress do I do with these". From there the game should somehow evolve in a way that you have to remake your plans on the way. I wanna feel like I win/lose based on my ability to look at the game state and figure out what I want to do and then make a plan on how to achieve that. That's pretty hard to put in a game though it seems.
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Oct 29, 2022 14:24
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Phigs posted:I do think strategy needs a certain kind of randomness. Otherwise it's just a calculation/optimization puzzle (+ execution is real time). Miss/crit/etc is not really the right kind of randomness though. Ideally in a strategy game you're coming up with plans during the game, but in reality you're going into the game with a set strategy and then you pivot into a limited number of mid/late-game canned strategies based on what your opponent chooses out of their limited set of strategies. You should load into the game and have a set time to look at what you've got and what's available and be thinking "well what the gently caress do I do with these". From there the game should somehow evolve in a way that you have to remake your plans on the way. I wanna feel like I win/lose based on my ability to look at the game state and figure out what I want to do and then make a plan on how to achieve that. A good example of this is deckbuilding games. Of course there's your Magic the Gathering, and then you've got your Slay the Spires and so on and so forth e: that spaceship game. uhhhhhhh. turnbased.... indie darling.... oh yeah! FTL!! Jinnigan fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Oct 29, 2022 |
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Oct 29, 2022 14:29
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Is Baldur's Gate II an RTS?
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Oct 29, 2022 14:30
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For me the reason I don't really play RTS competitively is I've dialed in the exact mechanics I want a "good" RTS game to have and I constantly find myself unfulfilled. One of the big ones is how build queuing works relative to how the resource costs are deducted. If I want to queue 10 things, I shouldn't have to pay upfront for the remaining 9 right away. Either deduct the cost only once building begins or deduct the cost at a rate over the build time. From the short list of RTS games that I have played against other people: Supreme Commander 1+2, Homeworld 1+2, Red Alert 2. None of those games have upfront costs for build queues.
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Oct 29, 2022 16:27
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Jinnigan posted:Is Baldur's Gate II an RTS? Brutakas posted:From the short list of RTS games that I have played against other people: Supreme Commander 1+2, Homeworld 1+2, Red Alert 2. None of those games have upfront costs for build queues. Llamadeus fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Oct 29, 2022 |
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Oct 29, 2022 16:48
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Playing an RTS (or almost any similar multiplayer game) online rapidly stops feeling like playing the theme of the game, and more about just memorizing and trying to be faster/better at executing whatever strategy happens to be OP at the moment. I've so found the matchmaking usually blows, and games seem to alternate between mauling someone and the being crushed by someone who is smurfing. But basically, my online RTS experiences have always been things like, "Ostwind spam!" I'm not playing a WWII game to see who can get out their OP unit and spam it the fastest based on a memorized build order. That's not remotely fun for me.
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Oct 29, 2022 17:55
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edit  vvv Love Stole the Day fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Oct 31, 2022 |
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Oct 29, 2022 18:59
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Love Stole the Day posted:Remember when Tasteless said the community is loving embarrassing? Yeah, that was got me to start my chemotherapy detox for Esports Brain. Something about Idra high fiving Incontrol to defend the people who were sexually abusing their coworkers into suicide, followed by the "community" letting themselves get Raytheon Reset'd by some British girl's China-approved cartoon butt cheeks and then act like none of it ever happened as Booby Cottage hands out golden parachutes to the enablers and abusers. Could you explain this again but in a way that a person who doesn't already understand what you're talking about could comprehend
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Oct 29, 2022 19:23
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I don’t think that’s English
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Oct 29, 2022 19:33
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Anyway I personally don't play pvp in RTS games for a lot of the same reasons I don't usually play fighting games: 1. There's a non-trivial baseline of mechanical skill you need to reach before you can engage with the strategy of the game. 2. It's only fun to play with players around your skill level, severely limiting who I can play with and making it a total crapshoot whether I'll have fun or not 3. The match will often be decided by a few mistaken inputs But also RTS games take like 20 times as long to resolve, which makes the other issues much worse.
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Oct 29, 2022 19:35
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Lol at ever having "eSports brain" in the first place let alone (judging from the names) having it for SC2. Edit: The tournaments the TW Warhammer 3 community self organize are pretty neat and even have newbie tournaments. Helps as well that TW isn't as frantic as some of the other RTS offerings. But yeah, I could see how solo'ing in a random queue could be crappy in terms of skill variation. BadOptics fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Oct 29, 2022 |
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Oct 29, 2022 19:35
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Brutakas posted:For me the reason I don't really play RTS competitively is I've dialed in the exact mechanics I want a "good" RTS game to have and I constantly find myself unfulfilled. One of the big ones is how build queuing works relative to how the resource costs are deducted. If I want to queue 10 things, I shouldn't have to pay upfront for the remaining 9 right away. Either deduct the cost only once building begins or deduct the cost at a rate over the build time. Modded SupCom 1's MP is still alive and well and I still don't understand why more RTS didn't steal more ideas from it. Controlling hundreds of units is far more fun than small squad and being able to set a dozen factories to all produce units forever without worrying about efficiency is just such good design. Micro is boring, macro is exciting as you get to watch the pretty explosions more.
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Oct 29, 2022 19:38
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doctorfrog posted:In every strategy game I play, I want to play against an AI that almost beats me, but instead I just barely beat it, and feel real good. I dream of a RTS where i can tailor the AI to my liking. Just something simple as having slides you can adjust. For instance adjust the AI's preference for certain unit types or wether its aggressive or turtle-like in its gameplay.
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Oct 29, 2022 20:58
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GyverMac posted:I dream of a RTS where i can tailor the AI to my liking. Just something simple as having slides you can adjust. For instance adjust the AI's preference for certain unit types or wether its aggressive or turtle-like in its gameplay. Yeah! At the very least, a truce timer. That way I can set up impenetrable walls for the ai to smash against. Arrath fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Oct 29, 2022 |
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Oct 29, 2022 20:59
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Arrath posted:Yeah! Cossack 3 has a truce timer. I like to use it for exactly what you described.
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Oct 29, 2022 21:01
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