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there was a lot of hype around remix but it doesnt seem that great? i dunno
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Oct 29, 2022 04:21
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Roadie posted:For me, the one big thing still totally missing in Next as compared to Remix is form handling. Not "mutations" or any other fancy poo poo done through frontend JS, just plain form handling that will work right with a form POST from a static page. Yeah I really like that aspect of Remix. It really reminded me of building apps a decade ago, but with modern tooling and UX. It's going to be interesting to see if Next adds a data mutation story soon. They moved pretty fast on nested layouts after Remix was released.
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Oct 29, 2022 05:37
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lazerwolf posted:What’s the best framework for small web UIs,mainly for forms and data tables. I need to have graphql support. It's not one single framework, but: React with a Vite build aystem Apollo Client for graphql UI library of choice (bootstrap, material UI etc) react-hook-form for form state management ag-grid for data tables
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Oct 29, 2022 11:48
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Small web ui they said. Not the most gigantic bloated web development environment possible that can construct a small web ui.
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Oct 29, 2022 14:40
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Nova69 posted:Apollo Client for graphql I don't know what the best is but I can tell you with certainty it's not Apollo. (Try react-query or urql OP)
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Oct 29, 2022 14:57
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prom candy posted:I don't know what the best is but I can tell you with certainty it's not Apollo. Apollo Client is great, what are your issues with it?
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Oct 29, 2022 16:00
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Nolgthorn posted:Small web ui they said. Not the most gigantic bloated web development environment possible that can construct a small web ui. It's the Web, its going to be bloated as soon as you pull in a single npm package
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Oct 29, 2022 16:01
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Please don't deploy node_modules
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Oct 29, 2022 16:04
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Yeah, it seems they released next 13 too early just for the conference thing. the server component first approach looks great though, along with the nested layout and suspense thing. I tried playing around with it and was surprised how few actual client components i needed for some toy examples and how nicely colocated a lot of the code is. can't wait to give it a shot for real when it's released. it'll be quite a wait i imagine though. if you're doing web these days there's a 90% chance you want next.js + typescript. Even if you don't use the fancy features like SSR/ISR, just the routing and utilities are worth it. as for the GraphQL client, try appollo or react-query and see which you like best I guess.
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Oct 29, 2022 16:18
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Nolgthorn posted:Small web ui they said. Not the most gigantic bloated web development environment possible that can construct a small web ui. Yeah exactly. The stack above more or less describes our current state. I was wondering if I could go lighter weight but we have some constraints with our data fetching
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Oct 29, 2022 17:18
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I know I often find mysef seesawing between: - "I really shouldn't be reinventing things someone already did better, I should rely on libraries and premade components more" and - "wow I'm getting bogged down in libraries, I should just stick to the minimum and roll my own solutions" I guess the real art is in walking the line deftly. at my job they created all their own UI components (kind of badly) from scratch, and then we had one guy spending two weeks loving with a dropdown menu and it was still wonky after that. then, for a smaller project I said let's just use MUI, but I don't like it since it kind of locks you in and forces you to opt into a lot of other stuff and it's hard to customize. Now, I'm thinking of switching to tailwind + headless components (mix-matching from radix ui, headless ui, react-aria etc.). It takes a bit more work to implement actual components but I to me it feels like a nice middle ground between having control over your own code and not having to manually implement components with good UX/accessibility.
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Oct 29, 2022 18:37
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lazerwolf posted:Yeah exactly. The stack above more or less describes our current state. I was wondering if I could go lighter weight but we have some constraints with our data fetching Unfortunately there is no really good graphql solution still. They're all a gigantic mess, frameworks built upon frameworks, upon frameworks. It's not really that complicated, I've been putting off writing my own implementation because I have too much on my plate already. At least client side it's possible to easily interact with a graphql server long as you're willing to write your graphql queries by hand. https://stepzen.com/blog/consume-graphql-in-javascript Edit: or I dunno something like this https://www.npmjs.com/package/gql-query-builder Nolgthorn fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Oct 29, 2022 |
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Oct 29, 2022 21:59
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Nova69 posted:Apollo Client is great, what are your issues with it? Working with the cache is a nightmare and it's bloated relative to other options. Edit: also I know the original poster said they need it but for everyone else just avoid graphql in general imo unless you have a good reason for needing it. Use like Next + tRPC if you can control your whole stack. prom candy fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Oct 29, 2022 |
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Oct 29, 2022 22:33
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I have years of experience in Angular and Vue, how do I get a different job when basically everyone uses React? Before you say "just learn React", even if I had the time, would that even be good enough since it wouldn't be in a "professional" setting and just something I did in my free time?
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Oct 30, 2022 18:42
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learn enough react to get through an interview and lie on your resume
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Oct 30, 2022 18:44
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I can't even imagine finding a job that doesn't use react and redux. I'm looking for jobs just even backend node, they all want react too. I tried job agencies and every single job and company all want react. Every job as far back as I can remember to ruby on rails have all been react. I can't escape it!!! Somebody help me!
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Oct 30, 2022 20:36
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Leave web dev?
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Oct 30, 2022 21:03
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No way, it's a gravy train
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Oct 30, 2022 21:10
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Learn React as best you can, put it on your resume as a technical skill, when asked say you’ve done some side projects and would love to get a role working with React professionally. Be honest that you’re green with that specific tech but experienced in frontend generally, and willing to learn something new. So many bad devs learn one lib and then refuse to acknowledge anything else exists, this will be a good explanation to certain other devs who understand that the fundamentals and the ability to learn are more important than rote knowledge.
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Oct 30, 2022 22:43
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Summit posted:Learn React as best you can, put it on your resume as a technical skill, when asked say you’ve done some side projects and would love to get a role working with React professionally. Be honest that you’re green with that specific tech but experienced in frontend generally, and willing to learn something new. So many bad devs learn one lib and then refuse to acknowledge anything else exists, this will be a good explanation to certain other devs who understand that the fundamentals and the ability to learn are more important than rote knowledge. This is what I did and it worked very well
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Oct 30, 2022 23:48
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Also if you've learned Angular and Vue learning React will not be hard nor time consuming. It's basically just gonna be you figuring out new syntax to implement similar ideas.
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Oct 31, 2022 01:20
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Core react is really pretty simple, especially if you already know FE frameworks. Learning the ecosystem and metaframeworks is harder but I think you could get React basics down in a weekend.
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Oct 31, 2022 04:24
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Redux is still kind of the killer for me, I keep forgetting how I'm supposed to do things it feels convoluted. Other state management tools I've used aren't nearly as hard.
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Oct 31, 2022 09:13
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Redux sucks anyway, at least when you take into account how it's usually used in most companies. It's simple enough since it's just a global store with reducer functions and hundreds of lines of boilerplate. But conceptually it's not hard to learn. Same goes for React if you've already used Vue, the basic concepts are the same really. It's just components, props and state. React went off on its own with hooks and now next.js, but Vue is playing catch up in that area. But there are a million learning resources for React, and I'm sure people here will be happy to answer your questions. It's up to you to make the time though. One thing that I think will give you an advantage is knowing TypeScript. All good web dev companies are either using or transitioning to TS, and not just because it's fancy, but because it's really really good.
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Oct 31, 2022 10:12
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The Merkinman posted:I have years of experience in Angular and Vue, how do I get a different job when basically everyone uses React? Counterpoint: there are plenty of Vue jobs out there, my man. You just have to look a bit. I hate React and would rather pluck out my eyeballs with a shrimp fork than work on it. I just switched jobs 4 months ago. There were plenty of things to apply for and interview for.
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Oct 31, 2022 12:56
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HaB posted:I just switched jobs 4 months ago. There were plenty of things to apply for and interview for. Feels like 4 months ago was still in the "Great Resignation" period, now we're in the "impending global economic collapse" period so I don't see as many jobs. Thanks everyone for the advice.
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Oct 31, 2022 13:18
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Yeah try learning useContext before messing with Redux, I'd argue it makes Redux easier to grasp
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Oct 31, 2022 13:18
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worms butthole guy posted:Yeah try learning useContext before messing with Redux, I'd argue it makes Redux easier to grasp But also don't use context for global state.
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Oct 31, 2022 13:20
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Not doing this argument agai. Lol
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Oct 31, 2022 13:23
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Ok, I admit I'm not a heavy context user myself, so I'm mostly conveying information I've heard from colleagues with more experience: context is not optimized for global state and using it as-is leads to triggering re-renders on props that haven't changed, unlike scoping updates via reducer in redux. I've been avoiding it due to that little nugget of wisdom(?)
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Oct 31, 2022 13:30
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I think React is definitely nicer to use than something like Angular, but there are a ton of footguns everywhere. If you're building a SPA of any reasonable size there are a ton of React details you need to be aware of to avoid having 50% of your page rerendered every time the user moves their mouse. IIRC they are working on tooling that inserts all the relevant memoization hooks automatically, but currently it's definitely not great. (Cue "well actually, you just have to..." replies)
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Oct 31, 2022 13:31
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Sagacity posted:I think React is definitely nicer to use than something like Angular, but there are a ton of footguns everywhere. If you're building a SPA of any reasonable size there are a ton of React details you need to be aware of to avoid having 50% of your page rerendered every time the user moves their mouse. IIRC they are working on tooling that inserts all the relevant memoization hooks automatically, but currently it's definitely not great. I think it will continue being slow forever until they replace it no matter what.
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Oct 31, 2022 13:37
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gbut posted:Ok, I admit I'm not a heavy context user myself, so I'm mostly conveying information I've heard from colleagues with more experience: context is not optimized for global state and using it as-is leads to triggering re-renders on props that haven't changed, unlike scoping updates via reducer in redux. I've been avoiding it due to that little nugget of wisdom(?) use it for low-velocity changes like your ui theme provider, your google analytics id provider, hell even user info also, just learn react op
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Oct 31, 2022 14:18
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Yeah, having to manually employ useCallback and useMemo isn't the best development experience. But if you (big if) organize your stuff correctly, you'll only have to use such optimizations in rare instances when things are noticeably slow. My main gripe with Vue was that it's always playing catch-up with React (hooks/composition API, TS integration, etc.) but somehow React has a way more stable API despite being the one to pioneer new features. Vue 2 feels really outdated, but Vue 3 feels not mature enough (especially when I was looking to do SSR), and upgrading from 2 to 3 is a real pain (flinches in python). Also the templates not being JSX by default really hurts it when it comes to TS integration and composability. The computed properties in Vue are great though, it's like getting MobX for free.
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Oct 31, 2022 14:41
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gbut posted:But also don't use context for global state. Absolutely use context for global state. Just make sure it is state that changes exactly once when the user logs in.
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Nov 1, 2022 00:41
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It feels like there's an enormous amount of states that don't require a re-render and are only useful for event handling. They are used the split second they are needed and that's all, so more or less 99% of re renders that are happening don't matter. Which is why hooks became so prominent, I can say "unless this prop changed ignore whatever is going on". And I use it absolutely everywhere. Maybe it's time for the entire design concept to change.
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Nov 1, 2022 01:07
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The whole Idea that I need to explicitly wrap a component in React.memo, just so that it doesn't update unless it's props change, is completely insane to me. React is the most overrated framework to have ever existed.
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Nov 1, 2022 01:10
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that's a fair argument, but after working with something like vue for a couple years which tries to give you better out-of-the box diff checking but no escape hatch to do it manually yourself, having access to things like react.memo and shouldComponentUpdate is really nice working on app for a few years with coworkers coming and going really makes memoization techniques nice to have when you can't review ever PR teen phone cutie fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Nov 1, 2022 |
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Nov 1, 2022 01:28
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They should just rename it Hooks.js 
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Nov 1, 2022 01:28
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Nolgthorn posted:The whole Idea that I need to explicitly wrap a component in React.memo, just so that it doesn't update unless it's props change, is completely insane to me. React is the most overrated framework to have ever existed. That’s not how it works, though?
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