The track day and racing thread

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PIZZA.BAT: Nov 12, 2016

Watkins Glen trip report: The Hawks & PS4s performed wonderfully. After my past two outings where I couldn't be confident in my car's reliability this was a massive breath of fresh air. Saturday was mostly getting adjusted to the new braking power & grip while Sunday was seeing how much speed I could pick up. My instructor bumped me up to HPDE 2 before my last session so of course that's when I pushed things too hard and almost totaled my car.

The instructor & I were working on pushing up my braking lines and getting later apexes in turns in order to get more speed exiting the turns. I found that in most of the turns I was able to hit them hard enough that I could reliably throttle steer on my way out and it was feeling GOOD. Last lap of my last session I hit turn one perfectly and throttled steered just enough such that two of my tires hit the curb*. I have way more speed than I'm used to and am mindful of it going into turn two. I had a bad habit of braking a bit before going in despite going way slower than I could have and this time managed to throttle all the way through. For the first time ever I'm able to get the tires to sing going up the esses and hit the rear straightaway at 115 mph, where before I'd typically hit it at 90 mph, 100 if I was lucky. Full throttle down the rear straight where, again, I'm being mindful of the fact I'm carrying way more speed.

I had a habit of turning too late into the bus stop so I braked about 100 ft earlier but also released earlier and entered the bus stop at about 90 mph instead of my usual 70 and also at a way shallower angle which lets me carry way more speed through it. I use the curbs to twist the car a bit to get through and enter the outer loop with more velocity than ever before. Again, I'm being mindful of this fact and slowly start pulling inwards to try to hit my apex a bit later as before my velocity was low so I could just hug the inside the whole time without issue. I nail the apex with enough velocity that I can throttle steer again out and this is where my mind just blanked out.

I pull into the straight with more velocity than I'd had before and floor it. The chute was a turn I was always able to nail before so my mind just reset back to my default braking zone without any consideration for the speed I was carrying from all the previous turns. As my foot was traveling to hit the brakes I already knew I'd screwed up and start planning for how I'm going to handle it. I'm not able to shed enough speed by the time I hit the very end of the straight so I take the smallest turn I can to stay on the outside of the track as hitting the apex is completely out of the question at this point. The car starts to slide through the turn and I just see the wall coming closer and closer. I realize I can release the brakes and wheel at any point and pray that it's enough to regain traction IF my car is also pointed away from the wall. It's the last possible moment when this happens as all four tires are in the grass. I release the brakes and wheel and the car immediately shifts forwards down the grass instead of into the wall. I come to a complete stop, give the flag station a thumbs up, and can only muster a low, 'fuuuuuuuuuuck'

My instructor just chuckles and says that as soon as I entered the braking zone he knew it was too late to intervene and at that point just wanted to see how I carried it. Apparently pretty drat well as there were a dozen different ways I could have guaranteed my car went into the wall and I went with none of them.

I learned an extremely important lesson on being aware of when you're running hot and knowing to back off before you get yourself into trouble. Specifically it's the turn you think you have down pat that will get you when you're in this state as it's the one you take for granted. I'm gracious that I got to learn that lesson without taking some blue paint home, let alone totaling my car.

I can't loving wait for next year

*Yes I know 'the line' is OVER the curb but this is also my daily driver

# ? Oct 10, 2022 17:53

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# ? May 25, 2024 16:49

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

I've seen a lot of cars get eaten in that turn because the wall is so close so good job not dying. Next time focus on giving yourself more margin on the brake zones - it doesn't actually matter that much for lap times and you never know when your brakes are going to just say 'gently caress you, no'

Edit: And I take all 4 wheels on the first curb in the bus stop. It's actually a really forgiving curb. The real racing line is "touching the grass past the curb"

# ? Oct 10, 2022 18:01

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

As for how I did, I'm very impressed with the M4 on track. Ran stock tires (PS4S) and stock pads (this was a mistake - I cooked them completely within the first day and had to bow out of the second day). I was taking it very easy because A: I had no idea where the limits were and B: I was loving terrified to bin a $90k leased car. Here's a pretty typical "good" lap towards the end of the day with a lot of obvious room for improvement still:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc2A8DH4-8s

This car could easily do sub 2:10s on those tires if I cleaned up my lines and was willing to use more of the track (and had better brakes). I was regularly hitting 151 at the end of the back straight. It's a monster car and it blew me away.

# ? Oct 10, 2022 18:36

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

I'm going to triple post and you can't stop me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVfojdvNE_4

# ? Oct 10, 2022 20:20

Virgil Vox: Dec 8, 2009

KillHour posted:

I'm going to triple post and you can't stop me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVfojdvNE_4

lol drat

# ? Oct 10, 2022 20:30

KidDynamite: Feb 11, 2005

KillHour posted:

I'm going to triple post and you can't stop me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVfojdvNE_4

did that person get a talking to? that is not cool

# ? Oct 10, 2022 22:54

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

Not that I know of but he did come up to be after to apologize. He said he couldn't brake in time so he would have rear ended me if he didn't take it but I'm not sure how that could have happened unless he just wasn't paying attention.

# ? Oct 10, 2022 23:07

PIZZA.BAT: Nov 12, 2016

Yeah his explanation is kind of worse, if anything

# ? Oct 10, 2022 23:57

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

lol "accelerate from the crash" in the wild

# ? Oct 11, 2022 00:12

honda whisperer: Mar 29, 2009

PIZZA.BAT posted:

Watkins Glen trip report: The Hawks & PS4s performed wonderfully. After my past two outings where I couldn't be confident in my car's reliability this was a massive breath of fresh air. Saturday was mostly getting adjusted to the new braking power & grip while Sunday was seeing how much speed I could pick up. My instructor bumped me up to HPDE 2 before my last session so of course that's when I pushed things too hard and almost totaled my car.

The instructor & I were working on pushing up my braking lines and getting later apexes in turns in order to get more speed exiting the turns. I found that in most of the turns I was able to hit them hard enough that I could reliably throttle steer on my way out and it was feeling GOOD. Last lap of my last session I hit turn one perfectly and throttled steered just enough such that two of my tires hit the curb*. I have way more speed than I'm used to and am mindful of it going into turn two. I had a bad habit of braking a bit before going in despite going way slower than I could have and this time managed to throttle all the way through. For the first time ever I'm able to get the tires to sing going up the esses and hit the rear straightaway at 115 mph, where before I'd typically hit it at 90 mph, 100 if I was lucky. Full throttle down the rear straight where, again, I'm being mindful of the fact I'm carrying way more speed.

I had a habit of turning too late into the bus stop so I braked about 100 ft earlier but also released earlier and entered the bus stop at about 90 mph instead of my usual 70 and also at a way shallower angle which lets me carry way more speed through it. I use the curbs to twist the car a bit to get through and enter the outer loop with more velocity than ever before. Again, I'm being mindful of this fact and slowly start pulling inwards to try to hit my apex a bit later as before my velocity was low so I could just hug the inside the whole time without issue. I nail the apex with enough velocity that I can throttle steer again out and this is where my mind just blanked out.

I pull into the straight with more velocity than I'd had before and floor it. The chute was a turn I was always able to nail before so my mind just reset back to my default braking zone without any consideration for the speed I was carrying from all the previous turns. As my foot was traveling to hit the brakes I already knew I'd screwed up and start planning for how I'm going to handle it. I'm not able to shed enough speed by the time I hit the very end of the straight so I take the smallest turn I can to stay on the outside of the track as hitting the apex is completely out of the question at this point. The car starts to slide through the turn and I just see the wall coming closer and closer. I realize I can release the brakes and wheel at any point and pray that it's enough to regain traction IF my car is also pointed away from the wall. It's the last possible moment when this happens as all four tires are in the grass. I release the brakes and wheel and the car immediately shifts forwards down the grass instead of into the wall. I come to a complete stop, give the flag station a thumbs up, and can only muster a low, 'fuuuuuuuuuuck'

My instructor just chuckles and says that as soon as I entered the braking zone he knew it was too late to intervene and at that point just wanted to see how I carried it. Apparently pretty drat well as there were a dozen different ways I could have guaranteed my car went into the wall and I went with none of them.

I learned an extremely important lesson on being aware of when you're running hot and knowing to back off before you get yourself into trouble. Specifically it's the turn you think you have down pat that will get you when you're in this state as it's the one you take for granted. I'm gracious that I got to learn that lesson without taking some blue paint home, let alone totaling my car.

I can't loving wait for next year

*Yes I know 'the line' is OVER the curb but this is also my daily driver

Hell yeah glad it went well and shiny side up. As you get to know the car, track, and track driving it'll smooth out. You won't come out of a corner 30+ over the last lap.

Also the "I'm doing it... I'm doing it!" has bit me too.

KillHour posted:

I'm going to triple post and you can't stop me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVfojdvNE_4

I need to be moved to the fastest run group vibes there.

# ? Oct 11, 2022 01:45

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

honda whisperer posted:

I need to be moved to the fastest run group vibes there.

He was in group 3 and it was his first time at the Glen :ohno:

also he used the R word to describe how fast his car was

# ? Oct 11, 2022 01:52

Gigi Galli: Sep 19, 2003; and then the car turned in to fire

KillHour posted:

He was in group 3 and it was his first time at the Glen

also he used the R word to describe how fast his car was

Yikes, it�s a good thing you were paying attention.

At tracks I�ve never been to I ask if I can run in a lower group for a few sessions before going back to the normal group. Is that not common? Like the first time I was at Palmer I ran in 2 for the first 2 sessions before slotting back in to 3 and it helped immensely. There�s only so much you can get from YouTube and sims.

Also I wish NASA would go back to Palmer!!!!

# ? Oct 11, 2022 14:48

BlackMK4: Aug 23, 2006; wat.; Megamarm

First real weekend out with the K BRZ, had to swap coilovers the day before the event to fit into my class so I sent it with no alignment or baseline. I spent all of saturday turning the suspension knobs the wrong direction, somehow lost all of the bolts / gasket from the header to the midpipe and realized it on my out lap on the sunday morning golden session, but started figuring things out after that.

I think I finished 4th of 10 in class both days and within a second of the winner on a 1:46 track, which I'm kinda happy about given where I was at with the car.

Good testing weekend

BlackMK4 fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Oct 11, 2022

# ? Oct 11, 2022 17:42

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

How terrible of an idea is this

https://www.audibuffalo.com/used/Porsche/2001-Porsche-911-aab133a60a0e0a9925c0211e34ebb229.htm

I'm a bit worried about whether that's just a K&N intake or if they hosed with other stuff too.

# ? Oct 29, 2022 19:42

Joe Mama: May 10, 2008

KillHour posted:

How terrible of an idea is this

https://www.audibuffalo.com/used/Porsche/2001-Porsche-911-aab133a60a0e0a9925c0211e34ebb229.htm

I'm a bit worried about whether that's just a K&N intake or if they hosed with other stuff too.

K&N plus Walmart-grade audio equals :raise:

Who knows what else was cheaped out on.

# ? Oct 30, 2022 03:11

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

Joe Mama posted:

K&N plus Walmart-grade audio equals
Who knows what else was cheaped out on.

That's something I would do just because I don't want to listen to a single CD for 5 hours on the way to Mid Ohio. But that's probably not why they cheaped out there and I'm worried that they did something terrible to it, yeah.

# ? Oct 30, 2022 04:12

BlackMK4: Aug 23, 2006; wat.; Megamarm

Don't buy a vert if you intend to track it often and a hardtop version of the same car exists is my hot take

# ? Oct 31, 2022 16:52

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

BlackMK4 posted:

Don't buy a vert if you intend to track it often and a hardtop version of the same car exists is my hot take

Yeah I keep coming back to this. Thanks.

# ? Oct 31, 2022 16:59

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

I�d look into something like a Spec E46 (or a truck+trailer if you don�t have one).

# ? Oct 31, 2022 17:14

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

I don't have room for a truck and trailer and my SO would murder me.

# ? Oct 31, 2022 17:29

Roman Rambo: Dec 21, 2009

NASA had a very fun and successful season ender at NJMP Lightning over the weekend. I was there with some buddies mostly driving STi and Evos, but since I am a naturally aspirated slowboi here is my 1st gen BRZ hotlap from Sunday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y0id9jZwQk

# ? Nov 7, 2022 14:04

BlackMK4: Aug 23, 2006; wat.; Megamarm

After a pretty frustrating few events (including popping a transmission and buying a new one / swapping it this past week) I finally got the K BRZ to start working this past weekend at Chuckwalla. Power steering was cutting out all over the place, the bowl was pretty terrible.

Good enough for first in TT5 both days, along with the NASA AZ TT5 lap record. I really wanted a 1:57, but it was not to be, need moar seat time in the car. NA 86 chassis record in his direction/config is 949/Supermiata Sonny in the Blub 86 with a 1:57:7xx, overall 86 record is a 1:56:xxx from CSG Mike in a supercharged car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u18Zm8bNE04

BlackMK4 fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Nov 14, 2022

# ? Nov 14, 2022 20:40

Roman Rambo: Dec 21, 2009

Way to go fast dude. Awesome job especially after dealing with plenty of car bullshit.

# ? Nov 15, 2022 21:05

BlackMK4: Aug 23, 2006; wat.; Megamarm

Roman Rambo posted:

Way to go fast dude. Awesome job especially after dealing with plenty of car bullshit.

ye, thank you.

That Lightning lap looked rad, y'all with your walls back east scare me.

# ? Nov 15, 2022 21:10

heffray: Sep 18, 2010

Good HPDE4 weekend for me: brakes and cooling worked well, killed some outside edges of tires, figured out how to find slightly faster laps late Sunday. My front strut mounts are shot, which these cars do often anyway. To Do list for next event are replacements for the strut mounts, flip the tires, and maybe springs / rear subframe bushings to firm things up.

# ? Nov 17, 2022 05:19

aventari: Mar 20, 2001; I SWIFTLY PENETRATED YOUR MOMS MEAT TACO WHILE AGGRESSIVELY FONDLING THE UNDERSIDE OF YOUR DADS HAIRY BALLSACK, THEN RIPPED HIS SAUSAGE OFF AND RAMMED IT INTO YOUR MOMS TAILPIPE. I JIZZED FURIOUSLY, DEEP IN YOUR MOMS MEATY BURGER WHILE THRUSTING A ANSA MUFFLER UP MY GREASY TAILHOLE

BlackMK4 posted:

After a pretty frustrating few events (including popping a transmission and buying a new one / swapping it this past week) I finally got the K BRZ to start working this past weekend at Chuckwalla. Power steering was cutting out all over the place, the bowl was pretty terrible.

Good enough for first in TT5 both days, along with the NASA AZ TT5 lap record. I really wanted a 1:57, but it was not to be, need moar seat time in the car. NA 86 chassis record in his direction/config is 949/Supermiata Sonny in the Blub 86 with a 1:57:7xx, overall 86 record is a 1:56:xxx from CSG Mike in a supercharged car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u18Zm8bNE04

Oh poo poo I wish I knew you were there, I was there too racing my green Spec944! Got a 3rd on Saturday and a win on Sunday after the two lead cars came together with some bad damage on each of them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWp1gQnzw4M
CCW was all new to me. I was totally lost out there all of Saturday.

What was wrong with the bowl for you? That's probably my fav corner

That crazy wind on Sunday was pretty annoying, one of the many times I was wishing I has a fancy RV to shelter in.

Where were you pitted I dont remember seeing your car? I was right next to the front bathrooms.

# ? Nov 25, 2022 08:29

BlackMK4: Aug 23, 2006; wat.; Megamarm

aventari posted:

Oh poo poo I wish I knew you were there, I was there too racing my green Spec944! Got a 3rd on Saturday and a win on Sunday after the two lead cars came together with some bad damage on each of them:
CCW was all new to me. I was totally lost out there all of Saturday.

What was wrong with the bowl for you? That's probably my fav corner

That crazy wind on Sunday was pretty annoying, one of the many times I was wishing I has a fancy RV to shelter in.

Where were you pitted I dont remember seeing your car? I was right next to the front bathrooms.

Oh, hey, congratulations on the podiums and win

The power steering was cutting in the bowl so it'd be fine and then suddenly load up hard. :smith:

I ended up leaving after the third TT session on Sunday since it was turning into the classic Chuckwalla sandstorm, but yeah, I was pitted on the west side of the food station between two of my friends RVs. They run Spec Miata, the yellow one that got punted hard on the start of the Saturday race and the green one that looks like a golf ball from complete hail damage.

I'll be sure to stop by and say hi at the next crossover event in February

BlackMK4 fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Nov 25, 2022

# ? Nov 25, 2022 16:58

honda whisperer: Mar 29, 2009

You know brake temp paint? Metal working thread just clued me into the cheaper industrial version.

https://www.omega.com/en-us/temperature-measurement/temperature-labels-lacquers-and-markers/temperature-markers-and-lacquers/p/LAQ

# ? Feb 24, 2023 01:46

Data Graham: Dec 28, 2009; 📈📊🍪😋

So I am apparently going to be competing in a 14-hour ChampCar endurance race at Daytona at the end of March, part of a 3-man team driving this:

Which is light and simple enough to start at 250 points, so much can be done to beef it up without going over the 500-point limit where you start incurring penalties (as most of the other cars will, as I understand it).

Construction has been going on for a few weeks now. Lots of custom-cut parts � brake hats, airfoils, struts, cooling plates. The coilovers get here allegedly Wednesday, the (12) wheels tomorrow, and I'll be on the phone all day trying to harangue them into shipping the wing which is the last big component. Rollcage and vinyl wrapping is happening this week.

Safety gear is all here and fits.

We don't expect to win anything, just to shake down the team and the car so we can do it all over again a month or two later at Sebring.

If Top Gear has taught me anything, this should be both fun and agonizing

# ? Feb 26, 2023 16:19

Wrar: Sep 9, 2002; Soiled Meat

Data Graham posted:

So I am apparently going to be competing in a 14-hour ChampCar endurance race at Daytona at the end of March, part of a 3-man team driving this:

Which is light and simple enough to start at 250 points, so much can be done to beef it up without going over the 500-point limit where you start incurring penalties (as most of the other cars will, as I understand it).

Construction has been going on for a few weeks now. Lots of custom-cut parts — brake hats, airfoils, struts, cooling plates. The coilovers get here allegedly Wednesday, the (12) wheels tomorrow, and I'll be on the phone all day trying to harangue them into shipping the wing which is the last big component. Rollcage and vinyl wrapping is happening this week.

Safety gear is all here and fits.

We don't expect to win anything, just to shake down the team and the car so we can do it all over again a month or two later at Sebring.

If Top Gear has taught me anything, this should be both fun and agonizing

That looks too nice to put into Champ/Chump

# ? Feb 26, 2023 17:23

McTinkerson: Jul 5, 2007; Dreaming of Shock Diamonds

Nah, ChampCar is legit and has a very very different vibe to LeMons. It'll be fine.

Edit: That is awesome and I can't wait to see it on track.

# ? Feb 26, 2023 18:15

Data Graham: Dec 28, 2009; 📈📊🍪😋

And the car is pretty rough exterior-wise, though the photo might not show it. We rescued it from an old/retiring couple who had apparently had it sitting in their garage for years after their kid tinkered with stereos and stuff or something. The trim and lenses and paint and things are all pretty banged up.

But once we had it all torn out, there's not a spot of rust in the whole car. Arrow-straight and clean as a whistle. It's like it's straight off the assembly line. Especially once we dry-iced all the sound deadening out of it

This thing will be no joke. We aren't planning on it getting a viking funeral but it wouldn't be the worst fate a MkII can attain, even a well preserved one.

# ? Feb 26, 2023 20:22