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In the base game you need a cargo rail to empty out the cargo bay, which you need to build before the module because you can't reach the outlet from a ladder. Or use a bunch of steel to build a gantry 
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Oct 30, 2022 23:57
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Oh interesting. Do I need this for liquids and gasses as well?
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Oct 31, 2022 01:46
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sure do. all a similar pain in the rear end
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Oct 31, 2022 03:29
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Base game rocketry is loving terrible, and I'll never be able to say that enough, but I'm pretty sure there's an "empty storage" button that doesn't even require dupe interaction. Conveyor rails are just not worth the effort.
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Oct 31, 2022 04:13
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And worst case, just dismantle the cargo section. You get all the materials back when you deconstruct stuff in this game anyway (which is a great decision they made)
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Oct 31, 2022 08:13
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I like not having to interact with the rocket at all for refueling. It might be slower but I optimize for minimum hands on time. Been playing with petroleum boilers in debug to see where and how I’m going to build this. I’ve got a volcano in a decent spot on the oil planet. I’m doing a snake style build with somewhat shorter layers than usual due to space constraints. Any tips on preventing element change in the pipe? I thought that by increasing the thermal mass of the boiling chamber with temperature plates it would help smooth out the temperature and reduce the chances of that happening but it seems to be more complicated than that. TehSaurus fucked around with this message at 12:36 on Oct 31, 2022 |
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Oct 31, 2022 12:16
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Make the final conversion pit at least 3 deep, and 2 wide, that should be enough themal mass. I have temp sensor on the spot the oil converts on (right at the bottom), and it controls the steel door that provides heat. I usually run it at 405C for this spot, but the steam chamber it is connected to is usually at 600C+, so it gives a quick blast of heat when required. This spot also has a granite shift plate for extra thermal mass, and the temp should fluctuate by a couple of degrees at most, but it is not unusual to see a blob of oil last here for a few ticks. The final top row of the heat exchanger you want to have 2 high, and then have insulated pipes for the top row, and use pliers to adjust it. I find it is usually too hot for the final 2-3 sections to be radiant. The golden rule - you can't shut oil off inside the pipes - so on the output vent is no good. If you want to switch it off, you need to do it from before the heat exchanger so the pipes sit empty, otherwise it will eventually conduct enough heat along the top corridor to start wrecking the pipes section by section. When empty, it's fine, and the petrol will drain down to mere grams, which won't be enough to boil the incoming oil packets in the pipes when it restarts. While it loses efficiency warming up each time, the power of any volcano far outstrips what you need to boil petrol with a good counterflow, so don't worry about it.
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Oct 31, 2022 13:35
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Make the entire counterflow heat exchanger two tiles high btw, so you can send in dupes for maintenance. And the last few pipes should probably be insulated yes. Remember to set up something to burn all the petroleum so you don't get backed up.
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Oct 31, 2022 13:48
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Ah, I didn’t have an intermediate steam chamber. Just steel/thermocouple/steel. With the second steel being really hot some of the time, so maybe that’s what I should be looking at. Once that is working I’m trying to decide if it is possible to do multiple lines at in the same boiler as I think this asteroid can support about 15k/s. Although even at 10kg/ second I’m sure I will be overflowing quite a bit to space.
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Oct 31, 2022 16:51
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So it is definitely possible to make a petroleum boiler that does two pipes worth! I need to take an optimization pass where I tidy things up, but this dumb thing is running at 12k/sec right now. One pipe preheats to 393 degrees, the other to 387 so I think it could do with being a tiny bit longer. I think I'm going to scooch the magma channel over to the left and move the whole thing down but this is ridiculous. The door series is for extracting the debris without doing the mesh/corner trick because I'm mentally ill. It does require some fancy logic to: a.) Keep the second door open most of the time to keep from bleeding heat into the lower steam chamber. b.) Still drop the debris occasionally. c.) Not screw everything up by letting a bunch of steam into the chamber with the magma. It is totally doable but you have to do some goofy things like gate all the activation conditions with a pulse generator that has a longer cycle time than the door sequence. Fake edit: Now running at 15kg/sec no problem. Looks like once it is done preheating it doesn't take much heat to keep it going so I think the single volcano will do the job indefinitely. 
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Oct 31, 2022 22:37
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Man, I'll never get over how fuckin hog everyone goes with these petroleum boilers. I use a diamond heat spike pulling heat from the magma biome, and in 1000 cycles of using petroleum for power, plastic, and rockets, the temperature has dropped from 1540 to 1503. And I'm also using it to run a 20 kg/s mafic rock melter for power (with more uptime). I'm with you on the corner grab and solidifying-inside-a-mesh-tile tricks, I've found they always break in invisible ways that are a huge pain in the rear end to clean up. For a volcano-powered boiler, I wonder how effective it would be to rip a page out of the regolith melter and use a door to drip magma down a wall connected to your boiling chamber. If you can control it well enough to keep the temperature below magma's melting temp, it'll cleanly drop chunks of igneous rock, which you could then ship wherever you need the heat.     In other builds, I repurposed my Claymator into a piss-to-liquid-O2 converter (need a cute name for it). I bricked over the airflow tiles above the piss jugs, then installed a supercoolant condenser below the piss jugs. The liquid O2 gets pumped through insulation insulated pipes to valves throttled to 1 kg/s, then dumped into the chamber with the gas pumps (and other places soon). I need to warm up the O2 above freezing temps, so I swapped out insulated tiles on my refinery steam chamber that was conveniently located above the pumps.    This setup works for now but I don't have any active temperature control for warming up the O2. Next up: converting base cooling loop to supercoolant (probably by just adding a secondary heat exchanger so I can keep the current piss cooling loop in place.)
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Nov 1, 2022 06:36
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Piss pools are the best for liquid O2. No need to treat anything, just ship it and condense it. If you have a slime biome that is overpressure with stank air, you can turn it into liquid gold for cheap
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Nov 1, 2022 16:18
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Panty Saluter posted:Piss pools are the best for liquid O2. No need to treat anything, just ship it and condense it. If you have a slime biome that is overpressure with stank air, you can turn it into liquid gold for cheap Piss pools are a good passive resource, but piss bottles are so so much better. Build reservoir, fill, deconstruct, repeat a few times. a 20 ton bottle of piss can put out as much pO2 as a 20-tile wide piss pool, which makes it easy to use them as a primary source of O2 in a claymator or liquid O2 setup
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Nov 1, 2022 18:06
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That gave me some more ideas, thanks HolHorsejob! Turns out this volcano doesn't have enough output to boil 15kg/s of oil indefinitely if I'm just using the liquid magma. I think there's plenty of heat in the debris though, and it seems like regolith melters use debris a lot so that seems like a good source of inspiration! I think I can imagine how the dripping would help, but it might make the machine a lot bigger? I had some issues getting the magma controlled the way that I wanted but I have that sorted now. Although the automation is hilarious. I'm now building the door sequencer logic off-site and using a ribbon to get it to the machine. This is a good thing because it turns out I need the space inside the machine to handle shipping the igneous rock around appropriately. I was having trouble with it melting in inappropriate places at inappropriate times, but I think I know how to manage that now. At least I know enough now to go back to my survival save and start prepping the area even if I don't know exactly what it is going to look like in the end! Maybe this weekend I'll finish the final design. I've spent the last three evenings working on this in debug mode.
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Nov 2, 2022 01:42
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Oxygen Not Included - Twenty Tons Of Piss Is Actually Quite Useful
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Nov 2, 2022 04:14
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Panty Saluter posted:Oxygen Not Included - Twenty Tons Of Piss Is Actually Quite Useful I think just "A 20 ton bottle of piss" works pretty well.
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Nov 2, 2022 17:17
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I'm partial to "piss pools are a good passive resource" myself.
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Nov 2, 2022 17:21
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That’s 20 metric tons of piss!
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Nov 2, 2022 17:51
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Shout-out to the days years ago in this game where the winning strategy was to stress your dupes and build no toilets because someone figured out under such conditions they could piss and vomit enough polluted water to offgas I to po2 to breath in a cycle. The trick then became spreading it out enough so it would offgas quicker, resulting in bases being huge pancake layers of overflowing piss traps with a pump to recirculate the piss and vomit back to the top. Good times.
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Nov 2, 2022 19:48
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bird food bathtub posted:I think just "A 20 ton bottle of piss" works pretty well. Oxygen Not Included - A 20 ton bottle of piss
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Nov 2, 2022 20:42
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Drone_Fragger posted:Shout-out to the days years ago in this game where the winning strategy was to stress your dupes and build no toilets because someone figured out under such conditions they could piss and vomit enough polluted water to offgas I to po2 to breath in a cycle. The trick then became spreading it out enough so it would offgas quicker, resulting in bases being huge pancake layers of overflowing piss traps with a pump to recirculate the piss and vomit back to the top. Good times. My gf tried this strategy and lost interest in the game when she couldn't make her colonies endlessly self-sustaining from poo poo like this
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Nov 2, 2022 21:13
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HolHorsejob posted:My gf tried this strategy and lost interest in the game when she couldn't make her colonies endlessly self-sustaining from poo poo like this she's a keeper
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Nov 2, 2022 21:35
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I assembled my first sour gas boiler. I don't have a good handle on how much it yields, but depending on how good the heat recycling and turbine usage is, I'm getting 2-4 kg/s methane yield, and feeding that to 18 natural gas generators.  I don't have a good handle on the automation yet. The gas piping is pretty straightforward, so I won't bother with it. It's not a closed loop by any means, controlling it is hard and I haven't really worked out the heat economy of this thing. There's a ton of heat gain when the crude flashes to sour gas (1.69 -> 2.19 SHC), a lot of which is lost when it condenses to methane (1/3 mass loss). On top of that, the sour gas moves relatively slowly from the boiler to the condenser, so to maintain good flow, the thing has to be started up and run with high gas pressure through most of it (30+ kg sour gas just outside the boiler, ~2500g at the condenser). The net result is that if I want decent throughput, this thing puts out natural gas at close to 300C. It's so bad that I added a section where 3/4 of the water is looped back through the hottest part of the heat exchanger in order to improve heat economy and throughput, cutting NG output temp to around 200C. I've never made an industrial brick like this, so starting it up was kind of a challenge. NGGs drop polluted water at the temp of the incoming NG, so I figured it'd immediately flash to steam. However, first time I started it up, the pwater cooled as it contacted the generators, forming a pool of polluted water that I couldn't get to evaporate and filling the chamber with pO2. I ended up metering water through the hottest part of the heat exchanger and dumping 250C steam into the chamber with the NGGs until the temperature was at least 135C and the steam pressure was enough to suppress offgassing if pwater did land on the ground. I still have to work out how to keep this thing from eventually cooking the pumps and generators, but so far so good. Net power is around 10-11 kW I think, on top of all of the byproducts.
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Nov 2, 2022 23:54
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  "Finicky" does not even begin to describe a sour gas boiler. I narrowed down a control scheme a bit. There are so many heat sources and sinks in this system, balancing them is a ton of work. I've been playing around with methane output from 1.5 - 4 kg/s and crude input from 2.5 - 10 kg/s. The system is prone to wide swings in temperature and sour gas pressure, especially as you throttle the crude input or magma heat input. It's easy to get the system stuck in a state where the condensing loop can't keep up with the incoming sour gas, and since it's not condensing, there's no cooling to recycle. I needed to get creative with how I recycled cooling in order to start the system reliably and get a reasonable amount of output. Dealing with the water the NGGs produce was tricky. Siphon it all off and there's not enough steam pressure to keep an aquatuner from overheating. Recirculate it, and you lose out on all that water and cool down the chamber below the temp at which it can flash the pwater to steam. I ended up setting up a system where the NGG chamber is charged with a steam pressure around 12 kg, then cool it with 2 turbines. Of the 4 kg/s of water they produce, 3 kg/s is looped back through the hottest part of the sour gas heat exchanger, and 1 kg/s (about the total production of the NGGs) is siphoned off. The temp in the chamber stays around 200C, and it takes a lot of pressure off the main condensing loop. I also added a conveyor to scavenge cooling from the sulfur. It adds a noticeable amount of cooling, but it's very slow and prone to weird accidents where packets of sulfur occasionally melt and cause others to melt, causing a layer of liquid sulfur to choke the flow of sour gas and reduce output. Heat Sources: - Magma to input crude oil - 3-4 Mdtu/s, difficult to control exact input - NGGs - 180 kdtu/s - Steam from NGGs - 500-600 kdtu/s - Steam turbines - ~200 kdtu/s between 4 of them Heat Sinks: - Supercoolant condensing loop - 1.2 Mdtu/s - Methane reheater - 700 - 800 kdtu/s per kg/s, output temp 215C (no water cooling) or ~160C (water cooling) - NGG output water recirculating loop - 1.3 Mdtu/s, optional, comes in handy when starting up the unit or recovering from a fault - Sulfur reheater - 133 kdtu/s per kg/s
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Nov 3, 2022 08:55
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That is awesome! 2 points - the boiler part needs gaps of 3 high between layers (space for petrol, oil, and empty space for gas). I suspect the gas can't flow out easily, and comes in hot bursts that cause your temp swings. In the cooling tower, radiant pipes don't seem to conduct to gases as well as a tile, so add occasional metal (aluminum) tiles over the rising methane pipes and it should cool the out coming gas more efficiently. I tried steam-rooming the generators, but the cooling from the water seems to be more than the generator heat and it struggled.
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Nov 3, 2022 09:41
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Having not played in probably years, the starter zone not having endless meteor bombardment of doom is a huge change I almost feel bad taking advantage of. Still building things out so my power needs are far more than taken care of at this point by a layer of solar panels.
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Nov 3, 2022 11:54
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It does feel super strong, but yeah there is a hard cap of horizontal space you can cover, so it's more like a super easy baseline amount of power once you dig that far up, you'll still need to build other stuff for larger scale processing and expensive amenities.
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Nov 3, 2022 11:57
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OzyMandrill posted:That is awesome! 2 points - the boiler part needs gaps of 3 high between layers (space for petrol, oil, and empty space for gas). I suspect the gas can't flow out easily, and comes in hot bursts that cause your temp swings. I'll give the airflow tile layout in the boiler a look. I recall this layout taking advantage of rules for how liquids and gases swap tiles, but the temps are a bit high at the output and I want to see if I can fix that. The radiant piping is actually pretty much perfect, the resulting methane has no trouble exchanging heat with the sour gas. I found that the generators don't really need steam cooling per se, their temp is governed by the input NG, and that heat gets deleted by the turbine. If I were just recirculating the turbine output through their chamber, it would probably swamp them, but I'm using that water for pre-cooling the boiler output and keeping the steam chamber pressurized, so the generator temp stays in a sane range. It's not self-cooling, but with some work I could probably swing that as well. e: after letting it run for a bit, the input and expected output match exactly after a cycle or so. I took a look at the pressures, and the flowing liquid with that arrangement of airflow tiles pumps out the sour gas very effectively (pressure at the bottom is in the mg when liquid is flowing). The biggest thing hampering its efficiency is the hot plate in the boiler. The delta-t between the diamond window tiles contacting the magma and the obsidian tiles that run it is about 1000C. Because the tiles hold so much heat and the gas flashing over is so sudden, crude/petroleum flows down to the hot plate, pools up, then flashes over suddenly. Sour gas is emitted in 150-250 kg burps over the course of a few seconds, making it difficult to exchange heat effectively with the 3.5 kg/s trickle of crude. Next thing will be to minimize the heat capacity and conductivity of the hot plate to make the sour gas boil over more slowly, ideally close to the rate at which it drops down. ee: i wonder if replacing all of the empty spots with steel mesh tiles would help. Both the crude and sour gas would exchange heat with them as they passed through, and the sour gas would get a huge bonus to conductivity HolHorsejob fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Nov 3, 2022 |
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Nov 3, 2022 17:26
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If you wanted a Puft of your own Klei has fired up a kickstarter with all sorts of tchotchkes https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/klei/oxygen-not-included-farting-puft-replica-plush?ref=ksr_email_user_watched_project_launched
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Nov 3, 2022 23:02
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lmao it looks like mesh tiles don't interact with gas. Steel mesh tiles filled with 15 kg of 300C sour gas, and they are 50C warmer after 1 cycle. From this screenshot, they don't appear to register as an object made of metal?
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Nov 4, 2022 00:52
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 Doesn't look too happy about that prolapse.
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Nov 5, 2022 09:20
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Oh my god, I did it, finally: Obviously I'm a bit behind on consumption just now. Working on that one! I tested the crap out of it in debug mode looking for any failure cases and I think I caught all of them. At least I sure hope so! If there's a part of this I'm proud of I guess it might be the automation?  Note that I built the big rear end door sequencer off site because there's a whole bunch of random rear end logic in the boiler. Noteable features:
Building it in survival was easier than I expected. I messed up the vacuum a couple of times but other than that it was no big deal!
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Nov 7, 2022 03:09
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TehSaurus posted:Building it in survival was easier than I expected. I messed up the vacuum a couple of times but other than that it was no big deal! To help people with issues in space, I'm starting space stuff in my new save so here is a very simple starting spacefarer:  All it needs is oxylite for air in bottom left storage (my first trip was with an algae pump in this spot and 10t dumped on the floor), food (any will do should last 8+ cycles if fresh - Grubfruit preserve is good until you get berry sludge). The landing base looks like this:  CO2 supply for the engine, oxygen supply for when it is docked (saves oxylite). Dupes do have a nasty habit of getting stuck in the rocket when it is landed for spme reason, so you need to check it regularly. The rocket itself is a CO2 engine, and just a spacefarer, a battery, and a nosecone. The hamster wheel in the spacefarer will charge the battery as needed and the gas pump will charge up the suit dock. This will happily go 3 tiles out, scan all it can, and generate some data banks for research on the way back, and maintain 20+ morale on the dupe. It is easily enough to check out the neighbourhood and research petrol, or possibly jump straight to radbolt engines if you are building a reactor. Send it out in 6 3 step jumps to do the mid-range scan and you will have enough data banks to finish most of the research tree, if you need more you can park it in orbit for 4-5 cycles at a time and just churn them out.
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Nov 9, 2022 20:59
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If you move the spaceship controls one tile to the right and move the dining table two tiles to the left (swapping them in other words) you can fit in a hanging plant for a bit more decor. Got to use those two wasted spaces
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Nov 10, 2022 11:35
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Dunno-Lars posted:If you move the spaceship controls one tile to the right and move the dining table two tiles to the left (swapping them in other words) you can fit in a hanging plant for a bit more decor. Got to use those two wasted spaces My rocket layout would probably horrify you! It is nice to have some decent references though because trying to optimize them is one of my least favorite things. Turns out I missed an oil reservoir that was hidden off to the side so I’ll be at 5 reservoirs plus one fissure for nearly 17kg/sec so I’m extra glad that I invested the time in the beefier design. Although honestly I’m not sure exactly why? I guess it’s because the power is literally free and the whole cycle generates bonus water. Although it is funny to me that I can’t even send all of it back to my home asteroid because the teleporter only has one pipe connector. Maybe I will move a bunch of the industrial operation to the second asteroid. Oh, also I have a question! It turns out I’m about out of steel. I foolishly rejected a couple of pinch roe eggs in the from the printing pod. Is my only option now really to go fetch some from the ocean asteroid? At least with petroleum and lox I should have plenty of range, but I’ve never colonized an asteroid via rocketry before.  Regardless, whatever I do next is going to have to wait for a bit as I just started Dadnarok yesterday.
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Nov 10, 2022 14:12
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I posted my ship designs a while back, I think they are tuned pretty well: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3811449&userid=128731&perpage=40&pagenumber=3#post525411531 though as was noted they can still be improved - you don't even need to bother with a filter you can just output oxygen to the lowest tile and it'll gradually eat the co2. The biggest thing is to use the full size telescope as it gives +1 range of the smaller one, which is absolutely huge early (the telescope is a drop-in replacement for the beach). Honesty you shouldn't stress about maximizing hapiness; if you have a dedicated dupe and skill scrub them down to only necessary skills you can keep them happy pretty easily, your chief worry is bringing enough food that doesn't spoil fast and enough oxygen. Definitely abuse the "great hall can have a bunch of non-industrial buildings in it", and from what I remember the great hall is more efficient than trying to wedge in a bathroom. And maybe putting stuff near the door. Bhodi fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Nov 10, 2022 |
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Nov 10, 2022 17:44
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Bhodi posted:This one is for single-user drillcones (note that I pull the ores out of storage to make more space and that all the stuff for export/import is near the door). I'm still messing around with this, you can sub a small pump in and put the carbon dioxide air sensor (shown deconstructed) next to the pump, connected to an AND with the switch. Note the double-bridge into the filter which minimizes losses of oxygen, not a ton of people do that but it helps. Yup, you sure did. Look pretty good to me. My favorite is the one with the beach chair!
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Nov 10, 2022 17:50
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TehSaurus posted:My rocket layout would probably horrify you! Not at all! I haven't even built one myself, I burned out shortly before the dlc and still haven't returned. I just noticed that one spot. The design looked great and I'm sorry if it came out in any other way. I love seeing the kind of stuff others post here. The weirder things I did was a big room with 3 cool steamvents and a hot one all being condensed into a giant tank. I then fed this 90*C water to enough brissle blossoms to eat a full pipe, while fighting to keep the room cold enough. Same save my solution to the huge amounts of co2 was to just freeze it solid. I also had 40+ tons of liquid chlorine condensed from a vent that I never did anything with. And a heat recovery system pumping hydrogen gas through bunker tiles and diamond tiles under rockets cooling them and using the heat to generate power.
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Nov 10, 2022 23:00
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To help those starting on Spaced Out, I'm going to show my first colonisation mission of my current game. Most starts will be missing something vital in the starting asteroids, in my case I want Sleet Wheat, which is found:  on this neighbouring asteroid 5 tiles away. The rocket is a small petrol engine job like this:  I always build the spacefarer just above the engine so it is shorter ladders to get back in (important!) I like doing 2 man missions, easier to build the rocket, and we will land using a Trailblazer, and the orbital cargo module. The really important thing is to make sure the cargo is loaded with ~2.5 tonnes of the same metal that the trailblazer is made up of. The plan is to deconstruct the trailblazer, open 2 cargo pods, and then build the platform for the rocket to land. The interior looks like this:  Great Hall and a Barracks bonus + grubfruit preserve + breaks & dupe shuold give 24+ morale even if the decor gets trashed when they are out building/digging.  Plumbing is trivial, just a water supply for the toilet - DO NOT FORGET TO FILL IT like I just did. ahem. All you need is clean water for the wall toilet to work, and the input vents on the outside let you just plumb it straight in. Ventilation is more complex (and I love to overcomplicate things):  I'm using algae for oxygen just because, oxylite is better but I want to show that algae is fine. The priority for ventilation is to feed the suit docks, as this capsule will be a little home away from home for the duration of the mission (It often takes me 2-3 round trips to get a mini base set up on a distant asteroid as I always forget stuff). There's an oxygen filter to make sure we don't get element damage to the docks, and then the overflow is fed to the vent on the bottom row which is there for the piped supply, and to delete CO2. The bridges enforce flow direction, and prioritise the external feed (blue arrow labelled IN on the diagram) so when docked it wont burn through the actual mission supplies. That's probably enough for part 1, join me for part 2 when I will be sending 2 plucky dupes to their certain death on a frozen asteroid far from home. E: Yes, the plant is currently dead. Not as you may expect via temperature - but pressure. I left the dupes alone to install the suit checkpoint and they managed to strand 3 dupes inside the capsule, which I only noticed after they had pissed everywhere (see earlier note about forgetting to fill the water pipes). The single dribble of piss, however, neatly lies over the bottom row airvent and turns the capsule into an infinite gas storage. Due to the concerted action of the base oxygen supply and the gas pump, my capsule is currently pressurised to a nice 60kg of oxygen per tile before they got around to mopping. I loving love this game. OzyMandrill fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Nov 15, 2022 |
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Nov 15, 2022 13:43
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Part II And we're off!  ... and we are there just over 2 cycles later. Still with plenty of food, and.. ahem... lots of oxygen.  Time to get busy... Ish. Ellie is just sitting down for a break, so I will wait for her to wake up in the morning, then we will drop. While we wait, I will deploy our cargo module:  which leads to this:  So, short wait for Ellie to wake up, then DEPLOY the trailblazer, with her over on the left where there's a nice cluster of pods. They have fixed it so when you deploy the trailblazer, the dupe will exit the capsule & therefore put on an atmo suit for us, but it doesn't actually draw it when you exit the trailblazer:   Then land it and build a ladder up:  All that's left is to dig into this, grab some sleet wheat seeds, and get home before the oxygen runs out (about 100 turns maybe?) or food (~30 turns). Easy! E: Protip: Once you land, remember to (a) turn off any landing restrictions (useful to have on at home base, reduces the number of dupes that get stuck), and (b) add the dropped dupe back to the crew. Deploying removes them from the rockets crew, and if you are not careful, you can leave them behind. ahem. OzyMandrill fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Nov 16, 2022 |
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Nov 16, 2022 18:42
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