Victoria 3: the 1960 german unification play comes with a few complications

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Victoria 3: the 1960 german unification play comes with a few complications

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Slim Jim Pickens: Jan 16, 2012

DaysBefore posted:

How is the multiplayer desync wise? Meant to join a mapgoons game but never got around to it.

Desyncing is usually on the player's end. Game runs fine otherwise.

# ? Nov 3, 2022 01:47

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# ? May 30, 2024 18:42

Tomn: Aug 23, 2007; And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands

I looked over at the US after fifty odd years in my game and:

- The Afro-American Rising had claimed most of the South and was racially segregated in favor of Afro-Americans

- Except for the Confederate States of America, which had risen up in revolt in Alabama and Mississippi against their Afro-American masters to reinstitute white segregation

- The Union was also racially segregated and had lost most of the West to Mexico but colonized a chunk of Alberta as a consolation prize

- Meanwhile Texas was independent and the only functioning communist country in the game

The late game apparently seems to get particularly wild, AI radicalism will have slowly built up to a head and mixed in with increasingly powerful and extremist ideologies to produce all kinds of revolutions and risings. Half of Austria (the Hungarian half) broke off in a Communist rising that was sadly defeated by the Hapsburgs despite putting up a good fight of it. It's a shame that even when they succeed they don't really make that many dramatic legal changes.

Also I don't know if this happens already or not, but I feel like after a civil war ends there should be modifiers, possibly a choice, that greatly increases mortality in the defeated states for a while and/or greatly increases the chance of emigration to represent rebels getting hunted down or fleeing into exile. Possibly a choice to extend leniency as well but that should come with some political penalties of its own.

# ? Nov 3, 2022 01:48

Slim Jim Pickens: Jan 16, 2012

Waifu Radia posted:

i dont care about realistic resources i want resources in fun and interesting places informed by history

Canada has like 50 times the oil it had, it's disgusting

# ? Nov 3, 2022 01:50

Schnitzler: Jul 28, 2006; Toilet Rascal

Tomn posted:

...Wage calculation talk and so on...

Honestly I am probably way off, I just enjoy trying to figure out how systems like this work, whether I get it right or not. I also enjoy writing down my thoughts in giant walls of text no one should be forced to read, so sorry for putting that on you. The calculation for the initial basic wage being simpler than what I propose sounds realistic because yeah, there is no need for it to be as complicated as I make it out to be.

Tomn posted:

Mind you, using colonies for cheap raw resource plantations could actually work perfectly with this setup, since interventionism DOES include aristocrats contributing a little the investment pool so you can hit multiple notes of fulfilling your rare raw resource needs AND bringing in a small but steady stream of profitable investment income.

This I find works well under laissez-faire too once you research mutual funds and switch the plantations/farms over to publicly traded for increased capitalist ownership.

The colonial exploitation stuff is something I still have to try out myself. As you say, could lead to some funny results.

# ? Nov 3, 2022 01:57

Radia: Jul 14, 2021; And someday, together.. We'll shine.

Slim Jim Pickens posted:

Canada has like 50 times the oil it had, it's disgusting

so does libya and the middle east for the game's time frame but who cares

# ? Nov 3, 2022 02:04

trapped mouse: May 25, 2008; by Azathoth

I've been looking for information in the game and on the wiki, but I haven't found a good answer: What does a pop being "discriminated" against actually mean? In a gameplay sense. Does it raise radicalism? Lower wages? Is there something specific and tangible that it does?

# ? Nov 3, 2022 02:07

KOGAHAZAN!!: Apr 29, 2013; a miserable failure as a person

an incredible success as a magical murder spider

Waifu Radia posted:

i dont care about realistic resources i want resources in fun and interesting places informed by history

I know I'm not going to install any mod that makes resource deposits more concentrated until they teach the AI how to develop them lmao

Though if someone if hacking the demographic transition into the game I might be interested in that

# ? Nov 3, 2022 02:19

Slim Jim Pickens: Jan 16, 2012

Waifu Radia posted:

so does libya and the middle east for the game's time frame but who cares

They are all disgusting, tbqh

KOGAHAZAN!! posted:

I know I'm not going to install any mod that makes resource deposits more concentrated until they teach the AI how to develop them lmao

Though if someone if hacking the demographic transition into the game I might be interested in that

It's already in the game. Birth rate starts declining past 20 sol.

# ? Nov 3, 2022 02:23

ItohRespectArmy: Sep 11, 2019; Cutest In The World, Six Time DDT Ironheavymetalweight champion, Two Time International Princess champion, winner of two tournaments, a Princess Tag Team champion, And a pretty good singer too!
"When I was an idol, I felt nothing every day but now that I'm a pro wrestler I'm in pain constantly!"

Slim Jim Pickens posted:

Canada has like 50 times the oil it had, it's disgusting

this removes my ability to feel human

# ? Nov 3, 2022 02:25

Gamerofthegame: Oct 28, 2010; Could at least flip one or two, maybe.

DaysBefore posted:

How is the multiplayer desync wise? Meant to join a mapgoons game but never got around to it.

some people are randomly cursed to be in the shadow realm and behind and thus must be excommunicated from the game, but otherwise if there is obvious desync (that isn't caught by the game) we haven't noticed yet

it does error when people hotjoin after a certain head count tho, so that sucks.

# ? Nov 3, 2022 02:25

KOGAHAZAN!!: Apr 29, 2013; a miserable failure as a person

an incredible success as a magical murder spider

Slim Jim Pickens posted:

It's already in the game. Birth rate starts declining past 20 sol.

Really, huh. I feel like it should probably kick in earlier than that.

# ? Nov 3, 2022 02:28

Hellioning: Jun 27, 2008

Stux posted:

maybe theyll enable a historical mode like hoi4. or maybe itll be left like eu4 to be vaguely historical sometimes but 80% of the time u look over at europe after looking at africa/asia for 250 years and wonder what happened.

A historical mode in HoI4 only works because the focus tree system lets you force ideology changes and timing of things. Vicky 3 doesn't, so I'm not sure how it would force historical outcomes when the player is involved.

# ? Nov 3, 2022 02:29

Tomn: Aug 23, 2007; And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands

Schnitzler posted:

I also enjoy writing down my thoughts in giant walls of text no one should be forced to read, so sorry for putting that on you.

I mean my dude have you seen my posts in this thread. You've got nothing to apologize for and especially not to me!

trapped mouse posted:

I've been looking for information in the game and on the wiki, but I haven't found a good answer: What does a pop being "discriminated" against actually mean? In a gameplay sense. Does it raise radicalism? Lower wages? Is there something specific and tangible that it does?

Tracking down the exact numerical effects is tough, since I can't find where the game tracks things like "Likelihood of a specific pop to migrate" or "Likelihood of a specific pop to radicalize," but I can confirm that being discriminated against DOES automatically a .7x modifier to wages.

And on that note I will say that it's a bit weird that you can't see in a pop's screen how many qualifications that specific pop has, you can only get information from qualifications on the state's building screen (and even then you'd have to do a lot of clicking to see what any one specific pop qualifies for in total.

Also, again, various things are supposed to have an effect on political strength but if they do those modifiers aren't shown on the pop screen. Maybe the modifiers are acting in play already, they're just invisible, maybe it's a bug. Who's to say for sure?

Edit: The tooltip is kinda blocking the screen as well but they're also disenfranchised and thus don't get to join interest groups (though they can still have preferences, they just can't act on them or presumably contribute their political strength to them.) So if you're worried about a specific culture or religion's bad opinions discrimination is one way to go, though given the way interest groups work I don't really see how discrimination really helps knock down the power of specific interest groups since you'd be targeting so broadly.

Tomn fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Nov 3, 2022

# ? Nov 3, 2022 02:31

Arrath: Apr 14, 2011

Waifu Radia posted:

has someone curated a list of best mods so far before my next campaign

As other said, the UI overhaul mods (first few in the most popular mods on workshop rn) look like must haves.

I also have my eye on the improved heatmaps:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2882033954

And more state modifiers: (Doesn't look like anything gamebreaking, just more flavor)

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2880960949

Oh and Canadian bordergore fix:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2880442498

# ? Nov 3, 2022 02:33

Magissima: Apr 15, 2013; I'd like to introduce you to some of the most special of our rocks and minerals.; Soiled Meat

Slim Jim Pickens posted:

Canada has like 50 times the oil it had, it's disgusting

That's a good thing atm, until the AI is better at developing raw resources they should absolutely not lower the supply of oil anywhere

# ? Nov 3, 2022 02:34

Green Wing: Oct 28, 2013; It's the only word they know, but it's such a big word for a tiny creature

I'm still sort of enjoying this game but I've come to totally agree with what somebody said a couple pages ago about it lacking gravity and weight. Events! Meaningful, flavourful events. I'm starving for them. Events that are based on things that are actually happening in your nation. Events that take into account your government type. It's disappointingly flat - and I'm enjoying it but in a "hm yes dry economic stimulator" kind of way. I kinda want to come back to the game in a few months but I'm worried an Imperator will happen.

Even vic2 had events around 1848!

# ? Nov 3, 2022 02:38

Green Wing: Oct 28, 2013; It's the only word they know, but it's such a big word for a tiny creature

I'm surprised, to day the least, that the oil production issue wasn't picked up pre-release, but I know nothing about games dev and QA, so.

# ? Nov 3, 2022 02:39

Arrath: Apr 14, 2011

Green Wing posted:

I'm still sort of enjoying this game but I've come to totally agree with what somebody said a couple pages ago about it lacking gravity and weight. Events! Meaningful, flavourful events. I'm starving for them. Events that are based on things that are actually happening in your nation. Events that take into account your government type. It's disappointingly flat - and I'm enjoying it but in a "hm yes dry economic stimulator" kind of way. I kinda want to come back to the game in a few months but I'm worried an Imperator will happen.

Even vic2 had events around 1848!

I'm hoping patches add more events, and for an expanded events mod or two to pop up in the near future.

# ? Nov 3, 2022 02:41

boo boo bear: Oct 1, 2009; Can't post for 6 hours!

speaking of canada, does anyone know why I wind up owning all of it without even trying? is it a crown colony mechanic or something, cuz all I wanna do is either build awesome furniture in bc or the greatest shipyards known to man in halifax, but I constantly get saddled with the prairies, or even worse, the quebecois every time I play. the only way out of it seems to be independence, but that's got the major downside of losing access to the british market.

# ? Nov 3, 2022 02:42

Green Wing: Oct 28, 2013; It's the only word they know, but it's such a big word for a tiny creature

Arrath posted:

I'm hoping patches add more events, and for an expanded events mod or two to pop up in the near future.

Yeah I hope so. I can see for me maybe one more evening of play, but...at the moment any nation is much like any other. It definitely isn't justifying how much I paid for it.

# ? Nov 3, 2022 02:42

Tomn: Aug 23, 2007; And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands

By the way, something I wonder about every time I zoom in on the US - anyone who played the US before, how satisfying is it to zoom in on the Great Plains and California (if you nicked it off the Mexicans) in the late game and see sprawling, vast cities where once there were wide, empty fields and plains?

Green Wing posted:

Even vic2 had events around 1848!

In fairness, Victoria 2 had a very different design philosophy based around railroading things along historical lines, often through events. Victoria 3 having fewer events is as much a deliberate design decision to focus on underlying systems and dynamic possibilities as it is anything else.

Though yes, the final result is a little dry at present - even if they don't go all-in on major historical events little stuff that pops up to give you a better idea what what's actually happening on the ground in your country would be great. Like the random-rear end boiler explosions or one of your politicians deciding to go see two trains running into each other for fun, those are good and more is better.

# ? Nov 3, 2022 02:46

Magissima: Apr 15, 2013; I'd like to introduce you to some of the most special of our rocks and minerals.; Soiled Meat

Green Wing posted:

Even vic2 had events around 1848!

Your overall point definitely stands, but tbf V3 does as well, the springtime of nations is one of the bigger journal entries in the game currently. But it can happen significantly later than 1848 and isn't totally guaranteed to happen at all, the trigger is:

code:

	NOT = { has_global_variable = peoples_springtime_happening }
	NOT = { has_global_variable = peoples_springtime_happened }
	country_is_in_europe = yes
	has_technology_researched = egalitarianism
	any_interest_group = {
		is_insurrectionary = yes
		leader = { has_ideology = ideology_radical }
	}

# ? Nov 3, 2022 02:49

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

Imo at a minimum there should be more events that are just �a thing happened� - eg forming a cultural union or a major war or something should have a nice piece of text + pic. It�s kind of bizarre that researching a technology has more fanfare than forming Scandinavia

# ? Nov 3, 2022 02:50

Gorelab: Dec 26, 2006

There are also meant to be more around some of the things like 1846 too, with journal events, they're just too hard to trigger by my understanding. Stuff like the Ottoman Empire I think is the gold standard for Vicky 3 though.

# ? Nov 3, 2022 02:50

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

I wouldn't mind some level of forced direction in the first decade or two because it was all directly caused by stuff that already happened, but by the lategame I'm all for a fully dynamic experience

# ? Nov 3, 2022 02:53

dead gay comedy forums: Oct 21, 2011

decided to have a go at colombia and welp it's problematic to say the least. Any tips for South America (besides Brazil ofc)?

# ? Nov 3, 2022 03:00

Stux: Nov 17, 2006

Hellioning posted:

A historical mode in HoI4 only works because the focus tree system lets you force ideology changes and timing of things. Vicky 3 doesn't, so I'm not sure how it would force historical outcomes when the player is involved.

just give the country ais extremely heavy weights to specific laws and tech choices

# ? Nov 3, 2022 03:01

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

Tomn posted:

By the way, something I wonder about every time I zoom in on the US - anyone who played the US before, how satisfying is it to zoom in on the Great Plains and California (if you nicked it off the Mexicans) in the late game and see sprawling, vast cities where once there were wide, empty fields and plains?

In fairness, Victoria 2 had a very different design philosophy based around railroading things along historical lines, often through events. Victoria 3 having fewer events is as much a deliberate design decision to focus on underlying systems and dynamic possibilities as it is anything else.

Though yes, the final result is a little dry at present - even if they don't go all-in on major historical events little stuff that pops up to give you a better idea what what's actually happening on the ground in your country would be great. Like the random-rear end boiler explosions or one of your politicians deciding to go see two trains running into each other for fun, those are good and more is better.

on the train fight event the guy was a real shithead of a powerful industrialist, and I was very pleased when he died tragically

# ? Nov 3, 2022 03:05

DrSunshine: Mar 23, 2009; Did I just say that out loud~~?!!!

Magissima posted:

Your overall point definitely stands, but tbf V3 does as well, the springtime of nations is one of the bigger journal entries in the game currently. But it can happen significantly later than 1848 and isn't totally guaranteed to happen at all, the trigger is:
code:
	NOT = { has_global_variable = peoples_springtime_happening }
	NOT = { has_global_variable = peoples_springtime_happened }
	country_is_in_europe = yes
	has_technology_researched = egalitarianism
	any_interest_group = {
		is_insurrectionary = yes
		leader = { has_ideology = ideology_radical }
	}

I think if they'd just enclose the two interest group conditions in an OR = { } we'd have a good chance of seeing that event chain pop off a lot more often.

# ? Nov 3, 2022 03:20

DJ_Mindboggler: Nov 21, 2013

If you have Multiculturalism and Total Separation of Church and State, do Migration Controls do anything? It says it prevents discriminated pops from migrating, but what if you don't have any official state policy of discrimination?

There should be a way to model discriminatory sentiment from rank and file member of political factions even if their nominal ideology is non-discriminatory, maybe a malus to popularity for a Petite Bourgeoise or Rural Folks leader if their faction supports those policies, for example.

DJ_Mindboggler fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Nov 3, 2022

# ? Nov 3, 2022 03:38

Jazerus: May 24, 2011

DJ_Mindboggler posted:

If you have multiculturalism and Total Separation of Church and State, do Migration Controls do anything? It says it prevents discriminated pops from migrating, but what if you don't have any official state policy of discrimination?

There should be a way to model discriminatory sentiment from rank and file member of political factions even if their nominal ideology is non-discriminatory, maybe a malus to popularity for a Petite Bourgeoise or Rural Folks leader if their faction supports those policies, for example.

as far as i know migration controls do nothing if you don't discriminate. there is one journal entry that requires no migration controls to finish but otherwise you can just leave it in place and let the petite bourgeoisie enjoy their pretend racism law while you smash the integrate button on all of your colonies and eagerly welcome the latest mongolian immigrants

# ? Nov 3, 2022 03:42

Funky Valentine: Feb 26, 2014; Dojyaa~an

They should add more flags, the primary appeal of Victoria 2 was the flags, there are many good flags in Vicky 3 but I want more.

# ? Nov 3, 2022 03:50

Magissima: Apr 15, 2013; I'd like to introduce you to some of the most special of our rocks and minerals.; Soiled Meat

DrSunshine posted:

I think if they'd just enclose the two interest group conditions in an OR = { } we'd have a good chance of seeing that event chain pop off a lot more often.

Well yeah, if you did that it would go off in 1836 every single game, so you'd also want to gate it by year and at that point you might as well hardcode it to happen in 1848. I think it's pretty much fine as is, maybe you could make the condition less restrictive after a certain year and have it be a bit more frequent, but imo it's actually good that it doesn't go off every game, as one of the issues with big impactful event chains is that they get repetitive. I've only played two games and I'm already bored of the ripper

Edit: maybe something like "IG is insurrectionary and one of { radical leader, republican leader, IG is intelligentsia, law at issue is related to suffrage or govt structure }" would be a good balance

Magissima fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Nov 3, 2022

# ? Nov 3, 2022 03:58

Jazerus: May 24, 2011

i would be fine with it hardcoded at 1848, with a few sanity checks for countries that have suddenly wildly deviated from history (i.e. the player). at the very least there needs to be a big early-mid game cross-nation upheaval that hits some countries very hard and jumpstarts italian/german unification if nobody has already researched nationalism to turn on that panel. austria in particular needs a big branching event chain for 1848 and its consequences to even face anything like a historical set of challenges

# ? Nov 3, 2022 04:06

MatchaZed: Feb 14, 2010; We Can Do It!

I really feel like journals that are going to time out should get a notification, or like, once you see a journal you can pin the ones you're going to work on or not, and when the journal triggers there should also be a bigger notification? Also when you can do decisions there should also be a notification? I don't want to go into that menu all the time.

# ? Nov 3, 2022 04:10

Magissima: Apr 15, 2013; I'd like to introduce you to some of the most special of our rocks and minerals.; Soiled Meat

Jazerus posted:

i would be fine with it hardcoded at 1848, with a few sanity checks for countries that have suddenly wildly deviated from history (i.e. the player). at the very least there needs to be a big early-mid game cross-nation upheaval that hits some countries very hard and jumpstarts italian/german unification if nobody has already researched nationalism to turn on that panel. austria in particular needs a big branching event chain for 1848 and its consequences to even face anything like a historical set of challenges

The springtime of nations JE doesn't currently do any of that though (edit: except for the cross-national upheaval part). More and more-detailed events and JEs would help and I'm sure we'll get them over time. If you do want it to be guaranteed you can go to game/events/peoples_springtime.txt line 25, and replace:

code:

		any_interest_group = {
			is_insurrectionary = yes
			leader = { has_ideology = ideology_radical }
		}

with:

code:

		year >= 1848
		any_interest_group = {
			leader = { has_ideology = ideology_radical }
		}

You have to keep the radical IG leader condition because the rest of the event assumes one is present, but it's basically guaranteed that some European state will have one and kick off the JE for everyone

Magissima fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Nov 3, 2022

# ? Nov 3, 2022 04:22

The Cheshire Cat: Jun 10, 2008; Fun Shoe

BBJoey posted:

Imo at a minimum there should be more events that are just �a thing happened� - eg forming a cultural union or a major war or something should have a nice piece of text + pic. It�s kind of bizarre that researching a technology has more fanfare than forming Scandinavia

Yeah I think this is the main issue, it's not that the game lacks historical events, it's that if you aren't playing as the country they happen to, you won't ever notice them happening. Victoria 2 had a nice option for this where you could toggle the notification for major events to display even if they weren't relevant to your nation, so for example when the US civil war kicked off you'd still get a popup about it no matter where you were in the world (the default setting was that it would do this for nations that were in your neighbourhood, but I liked to swap it to be global).

I feel like the game is kind of weird about notifications in general, I'm not sure why they decided that event pop ups were bad all of a sudden and there's no setting to make them automatically display when they activate.

# ? Nov 3, 2022 04:30

DJ_Mindboggler: Nov 21, 2013

Jazerus posted:

as far as i know migration controls do nothing if you don't discriminate. there is one journal entry that requires no migration controls to finish but otherwise you can just leave it in place and let the petite bourgeoisie enjoy their pretend racism law while you smash the integrate button on all of your colonies and eagerly welcome the latest mongolian immigrants

That's what I did, staved off a revolt. I'm trying to do a no-colonialism Belgium Egalitarianism run (Friesland is rightful Belgian clay, gotta get some oil), and already got the journal entry for that locked up.

# ? Nov 3, 2022 04:32

Gamerofthegame: Oct 28, 2010; Could at least flip one or two, maybe.

it's settled, then

vicky 3 newspaper dlc when

# ? Nov 3, 2022 04:33

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# ? May 30, 2024 18:42

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

The Cheshire Cat posted:

Yeah I think this is the main issue, it's not that the game lacks historical events, it's that if you aren't playing as the country they happen to, you won't ever notice them happening. Victoria 2 had a nice option for this where you could toggle the notification for major events to display even if they weren't relevant to your nation, so for example when the US civil war kicked off you'd still get a popup about it no matter where you were in the world (the default setting was that it would do this for nations that were in your neighbourhood, but I liked to swap it to be global).

I feel like the game is kind of weird about notifications in general, I'm not sure why they decided that event pop ups were bad all of a sudden and there's no setting to make them automatically display when they activate.

The notification thing seems to be a trend in recent paradox games that is one step forward one step back - yea it sucked fiddling with the 500 different notification settings in early Clausewitz games, but it also meant that once you got to a sweet spot you received all the relevant global information you could want. V3 still has notifications - if you�re quick you can catch the bottom right telling you about major events such as the crowning of Victoria or diplomatic plays in areas you have an interest, but they�re swamped by notifications that Saxe-Coburg has declared and undeclared an interest in the Russian Far East. I don�t want to go back to the days of an event every tick notifying me that tractors have spread to one of my neighbour�s states, but some way to fine tune notifications to get rid of the noise and highlight things that may have no immediate impact but contribute to immersion.

Also one thing I�m annoyed by is that the game will notify you (twice) that an interest group leader has died/retired but not who the new interest group leader is - you need to go to the menu for that.

# ? Nov 3, 2022 04:48

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Victoria 3: the 1960 german unification play comes with a few complications

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