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infernal machines posted:it's important to remember that DoFo's core constituency in the 905 are pretty rabidly anti-union too, and they will not stand with CUPE when their kids are home for the day Well trip report from the picket line in the 905, a few thousand people showed up in front of a MPPs office, then people started taking shifts. Lots of support, I saw about 5 different unions represented. There were two lonseome anarchists standing around with their flag, and a woman with a DICTATOR DOUG placard that had Doug Ford photoshopped as Stalin. A good start, but I worry about the financial cost of carrying on. $4k/day per person is a lot of cash and these people aren't paid well to begin with.
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Nov 4, 2022 19:08
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Dreylad posted:Well trip report from the picket line in the 905, a few thousand people showed up in front of a MPPs office, then people started taking shifts. Lots of support, I saw about 5 different unions represented. There were two lonseome anarchists standing around with their flag, and a woman with a DICTATOR DOUG placard that had Doug Ford photoshopped as Stalin. hopefully judges are in a snit enough about this that they either don’t apply the fine or they set a payment term of a million years or something. saw both libertarian types and even some the gently caress Trudeau people where I was. there actually are a couple of true believers in “are freedums”
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Nov 4, 2022 19:15
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Dreylad posted:Well trip report from the picket line in the 905, a few thousand people showed up in front of a MPPs office, then people started taking shifts. Lots of support, I saw about 5 different unions represented. There were two lonseome anarchists standing around with their flag, and a woman with a DICTATOR DOUG placard that had Doug Ford photoshopped as Stalin. I think the $4K fine is a mistake from the government. For most CUPE workers you may as well fine them infinity billion dollars a day. So the threat becomes empty, because they can't possibly pay it anyway. Whereas a smaller fine of a few hundred dollars would have actually been much more scary.
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Nov 4, 2022 19:16
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FWIW Unifor is pledging $100k to pay the fines for workers, CUPE has already said they're telling the government to shove it and won't pay their $500k fine. https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...egislation.html
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Nov 4, 2022 19:17
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Isizzlehorn posted:FWIW Unifor is pledging $100k to pay the fines for workers, CUPE has already said they're telling the government to shove it and won't pay their $500k fine. carve it out of those rat bag “unions” that supported that poo poo sack
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Nov 4, 2022 19:20
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Calumanjaro posted:I think the $4K fine is a mistake from the government. For most CUPE workers you may as well fine them infinity billion dollars a day. So the threat becomes empty, because they can't possibly pay it anyway. Whereas a smaller fine of a few hundred dollars would have actually been much more scary. Yeah and CUPE says it'll cover their members as well, it's just tough. There was a woman there who works as a school secretary who was having trouble keeping it together because she's on the verge of bankruptcy and already works a second job. 
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Nov 4, 2022 19:22
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Isizzlehorn posted:FWIW Unifor is pledging $100k to pay the fines for workers, CUPE has already said they're telling the government to shove it and won't pay their $500k fine. if the government were to actually enforce the fines they put in the bill, Unifor's $100k would cover 25 workers striking for a single day
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Nov 4, 2022 19:34
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thehoodie posted:all parents will stand behind the gov't and parents are the biggest support base of conservatives, or some bullshit like that. sadly might be true because the world is terrible I assure you, it is true. Nobody hates unions more than the 905s and such transparently unconstitutional efforts to crush labour will only bolster tory support. Ontario fuckin blows
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Nov 4, 2022 19:46
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former glory posted:GOOOOOOOO CUPE Lots of parents hate spending time with their kids OP Combine that with the media running sob stories about teachers not caring about their students or whatever and I don't see this ending well for CUPE, or labour rights in general. Sure hope I'm wrong though. Legit question from a non-Ontarioan - Is there anything someone not in Ontario can do to support CUPE / CUPE members, financially or otherwise? ColdBlooded has issued a correction as of 19:50 on Nov 4, 2022 |
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Nov 4, 2022 19:47
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it's kind of surprising there's like no review bit to the notwithstanding clause, like a referendum or the relevant supreme court has to go "Yes, this is justified" but hey, we only made this up in the 1980s we had no idea what politics were then
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Nov 4, 2022 19:50
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Are the fines being levied through the use of the Notwithstanding clause? Feels like that's an avenue to obviate them in the event of a political settlement to the crisis, just say "on second thought the clause doesn't apply so the fines are retroactively cancelled". Of course that assumes they actually win the political showdown first! Really hard to take the temperature of the situation from BC.
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Nov 4, 2022 19:53
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Dolash posted:
The Ontario tories won a substantial election like, 4 months ago or something so this ultimately is unlikely to bite them on the rear end since the voters will forget about it within the next year irrespective of what happens
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Nov 4, 2022 19:58
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Arivia posted:it's kind of surprising there's like no review bit to the notwithstanding clause, like a referendum or the relevant supreme court has to go "Yes, this is justified" but hey, we only made this up in the 1980s we had no idea what politics were then It feels very funny in contrast to the fact there's ongoing hearings for the emergency powers act.
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Nov 4, 2022 19:59
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drat horror queefs posted:The Ontario tories won a substantial election like, 4 months ago or something so this ultimately is unlikely to bite them on the rear end since the voters will forget about it within the next year irrespective of what happens Popular support in electoral politics is only tangentially related to the political power of unions, though, which comes from their organizational ability to hold out for the demands of their membership. You don't need to win over the Conservative base to force a government to begrudgingly come to the table and ink a deal that ends a crisis. I guess what I'm curious about is whether those conservative voters' spite is stronger than their desire to get their kids back out of their house no matter the price, given that the money involved is purely an abstract notion to them but their chosen premier failing to get things "back to normal" is an actual material condition.
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Nov 4, 2022 20:06
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Arivia posted:it's kind of surprising there's like no review bit to the notwithstanding clause, like a referendum or the relevant supreme court has to go "Yes, this is justified" but hey, we only made this up in the 1980s we had no idea what politics were then the theoretical review process is that any use of the notwithstanding clause has a 5-year sunset period, and provincial elections are held every four years, so if the voters of a province disapprove of the use of the notwithstanding clause, before the 5-year period expires they have the option to elect a new government that will not repeat it in practice, lol
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Nov 4, 2022 21:04
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vyelkin posted:the theoretical review process is that any use of the notwithstanding clause has a 5-year sunset period, and provincial elections are held every four years, so if the voters of a province disapprove of the use of the notwithstanding clause, before the 5-year period expires they have the option to elect a new government that will not repeat it "voting for doug ford act" it is now mandatory to vote for doug ford 
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Nov 4, 2022 21:12
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vyelkin posted:if the voters of a province disapprove of the use of the notwithstanding clause, before the 5-year period expires they have the option to elect a new government that will not repeat it now that's a depressing thought
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Nov 4, 2022 21:14
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Rutibex posted:"voting for doug ford act" it is now mandatory to vote for doug ford voting rights aren't subject to notwithstanding thankfully but still a funny idea and I'm sure they could find a way to make it work
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Nov 4, 2022 21:19
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these are the constitutionally-protected rights that can be arbitrarily taken away by any provincial government at any time according to the "because I said so" clause   fun to think about just what a truly evil government could do in five years if they decided to overrule all these rights in every bill
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Nov 4, 2022 21:25
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quebec notwithstanding (heh) you would assume the federal government would step in at that point, but of course that depends entirely on the federal government at the time. we get some conservative provincial/federal synergy going and you could see some serious poo poo
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Nov 4, 2022 21:31
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infernal machines posted:quebec notwithstanding (heh) you would assume the federal government would step in at that point, but of course that depends entirely on the federal government at the time. https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/we-will-win-ontario-education-workers-refuse-to-back-down-as-schools-close-indefinitely-1.6137585 posted:4 p.m. Ehhh don't hold your breath
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Nov 4, 2022 21:47
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to be clear, i do not expect the federal liberals to lift a finger on behalf of organized labour either
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Nov 4, 2022 21:50
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also in labour unrest: probably going to see a strike from atu 1587, the metrolinx workers local, come monday it's a great time to get off the go
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Nov 4, 2022 21:54
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https://twitter.com/Evan_Hadfield/status/1588526426231164929
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Nov 4, 2022 22:01
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Disallowance is a cool word but I don't see the federal Libs having the political capital to invoke it for the first time in 80 years to overrule the province, even if they genuinely wanted to do a Good Thing. The Tory machines would have a field day. Anyways, swung through the Queens Park picket/protest this morning for about 45 minutes and it was pretty tight. Lots of other unions' flags out there, big energy, good honks from the cars driving by (up until the cops shut down University Ave around 10, ACAB)
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Nov 4, 2022 22:20
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dieselfruit posted:Disallowance is a cool word but I don't see the federal Libs having the political capital to invoke it for the first time in 80 years to overrule the province, even if they genuinely wanted to do a Good Thing. The Tory machines would have a field day. they are currently being propped up by the ndp and if jagmeet had any stones this would be a confidence issue right now it's possible for a minority government to have more immediate concerns than the conservative outrage machine, and the only reason they don't is that the ndp has fully abandoned labour
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Nov 4, 2022 22:26
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dieselfruit posted:Disallowance is a cool word but I don't see the federal Libs having the political capital to invoke it for the first time in 80 years to overrule the province, even if they genuinely wanted to do a Good Thing. The Tory machines would have a field day. I think they need to use it. Quebec has already used the notwithstanding clause to bludgeon minorities. And Alberta and Saskatchewan are lining up behind Ontario. The feds must use dissallowance or else I can see Canada starting to unravel as a cohesive entity. Further, other posters have mentioned that Ford is unlikely to suffer politically because the next election is 4 years off. This is also true for the liberals. I also don't think people care about abuses of power, so long as they support the actions taken.
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Nov 4, 2022 22:26
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Why would the Liberals want to take away a safety valve for the next time they feel like legislating an end to a strike.
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Nov 4, 2022 22:27
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Rutibex posted:"voting for doug ford act" it is now mandatory to vote for doug ford you’d still get goons in the other thread yelling that you need to vote and the result is good because it was what we voted for.
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Nov 4, 2022 22:33
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“looking at all the options” means “let the free market handle it”.
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Nov 4, 2022 22:36
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"we're waiting for the market research data to come back before taking a firm position"
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Nov 4, 2022 22:44
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We're in the maximalist policy option phase. PM Pierre Poilievre will probably use Disallowment when a province passes its own climate plan when he cancels them all. Justin is a coward but the Cons aren't. This poo poo sucks, but gotta keep fighting and not back down on any front. Power to unions. Also Metrolinx maintenance is going on strike Monday. poo poo is gonna go down (my lovely white collar union just voted 82% on an awful new contract. Cowards.)
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Nov 4, 2022 22:47
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lol even sid sexeiro was tearing the ford government a new one on breakfast television. when the loving breakfast tv yelling dude is mad at you you've hosed up dougie
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Nov 4, 2022 23:05
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the Liberals wont use disallowance because they agree with Ford and labour must be crushed
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Nov 4, 2022 23:12
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thankfully their minority government is being propped up by the ndp, surely jagmeet has something to say on the subject https://twitter.com/theJagmeetSingh/status/1588557040297070593 that's a start, now on the subject of not backing down...
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Nov 4, 2022 23:15
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vyelkin posted:voting rights aren't subject to notwithstanding thankfully but still a funny idea and I'm sure they could find a way to make it work section 7 is the one that says they can't execute me for no reason. so i think they could figure out something
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Nov 4, 2022 23:44
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RealityWarCriminal posted:the Liberals wont use disallowance because they agree with Ford and labour must be crushed This is why I lmao every time someone bitches about FPTP who gives a gently caress if 3/10 people vote for the Blue Cravens if another 3/10's principal objection is "i prefer my Cravens Red"
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Nov 4, 2022 23:56
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RealityWarCriminal posted:the Liberals wont use disallowance because they agree with Ford and labour must be crushed same with NDP
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Nov 5, 2022 01:36
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madone https://twitter.com/QueensParkToday/status/1588534376845172743 Mister Speaker has issued a correction as of 01:46 on Nov 5, 2022 |
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Nov 5, 2022 01:44
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lmao
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Nov 5, 2022 01:57
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