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Pollyanna posted:You have less to fear from AI than you do from humanity. Including your own. 
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Nov 4, 2022 18:13
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Wake me up when we have self driving cars that reliably handle all situations an attentive 'good' driver can handle. I won't hold my breath.
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Nov 4, 2022 18:32
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oliveoil posted:I don't know, probably not hard to do. Bet I could figure it out in a weekend if my brain was working right. I spit out my coffee during standup reading this. Thank you.
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Nov 4, 2022 18:42
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oliveoil posted:I don't know, probably not hard to do. Bet I could figure it out in a weekend if my brain was working right. Once the AI gets you 90% of the way there, you only have to build the remaining 90%
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Nov 4, 2022 18:45
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John DiFool posted:Wake me up when we have self driving cars that reliably handle all situations an attentive 'good' driver can handle. I won't hold my breath. it's almost there bro just one more year bro i promise it's coming next year bro please
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Nov 4, 2022 18:57
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oliveoil posted:I don't know, probably not hard to do. Bet I could figure it out in a weekend if my brain was working right. https://twitter.com/jwynia/status/1587094495912411138
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Nov 4, 2022 19:14
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The Hubris Summit on the top of the Dunning-Kruger mountain. Welcome back, oliveoil.
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Nov 4, 2022 19:26
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The AI coding stuff I've seen has been initially scary but I realize a lot of it is automating boilerplate and now I just want to use that stuff as much as I can so I don't have to type type type. I think the point where AI can actually take a vague description and make a thing from it is the point we're at a technological singularity and surfing on space communism. I'll take that too.
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Nov 4, 2022 19:35
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:The AI coding stuff I've seen has been initially scary but I realize a lot of it is automating boilerplate and now I just want to use that stuff as much as I can so I don't have to type type type. I think the point where AI can actually take a vague description and make a thing from it is the point we're at a technological singularity and surfing on space communism. I'll take that too. hi i think ive said this before but your av owns. literally nobody else in my life - even board game nerds - has ever played friday, unless ive shown it to them. it's a great game!
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Nov 4, 2022 19:38
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The AI we have now has been trained on years of mediocre code that real devs struggle to maintain, scale, and extend, and it would have no context on the decisions and tradeoffs involved. Would it make everything like EnterpriseFizzBuzz? Would it shoehorn the disruptor pattern into HelloWorld.kt?
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Nov 4, 2022 19:40
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gbut posted:Welcome back, oliveoil. Business rules and logic need a much more strict and formalized natural language before ai can replace all developers. In my experience MBA types don't have the patience for that sort of thing and would rather hire out an expert to work on the details like they expect to go with a lawyer In ten years I would expect MBAs to be able to put together a working concept of something like a Twitter clone using hypercard. If hypercard had http and a json parser, and the orm had a postgres shim, you could probably lay off half of junior devs tomorrow
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Nov 4, 2022 19:44
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Hadlock posted:Business rules and logic need a much more strict and formalized natural language before ai can replace all developers. In my experience MBA types don't have the patience for that sort of thing and would rather hire out an expert to work on the details like they expect to go with a lawyer  The consistent thing about modern AI is that it falls apart as soon as you get picky about details. - AI artists can't maintain any visual coherency - AI-generated photos can't do backgrounds - AI storytellers can't maintain anything resembling a standard plot - AI drivers can't handle edge cases I would fully expect that an AI-generated program would just straight up not work in subtle but important ways.
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Nov 4, 2022 20:10
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oliveoil posted:Bet you could automate a UI by hooking up dalle2 to gpt-3. One makes pictures and one makes text. That's all a UI really is, pictures and code in the form of text. That's 90% of the way. you’ve got to be kidding me
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Nov 4, 2022 21:01
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Pollyanna posted:you’ve got to be kidding me gently caress me I didn't even ingest that part.
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Nov 4, 2022 21:02
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Somebody feed an AI all of oliveoil's posts so we can get more of that poo poo any time we need cheering up 
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Nov 4, 2022 21:06
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CPColin posted:Somebody feed an AI all of oliveoil's posts so we can get more of that poo poo any time we need cheering up Maybe it already it is!
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Nov 5, 2022 00:03
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What are the AI/NN systems with the least oversight? Has it really solved any problems, or does it just get 90% of the way there, so it presents a bunch of close options and let the overseer pick/adjust the right answer? Maybe something like bond rating, where nobody would really know if you were wrong 10% of the time?
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Nov 5, 2022 01:33
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Achmed Jones posted:hi i think ive said this before but your av owns. literally nobody else in my life - even board game nerds - has ever played friday, unless ive shown it to them. it's a great game! Yeah my wife and I play a lot more Euro-style stuff so I tend to have a rough time following normal US board game chat. There's definitely a different style domestically here so we tend to get isolated. My wife is more of the board game nerd than me though and she ended up ditching Friday soon after that AV since she considered it to be too random. Like, you'd get setups that were just impossible and she doesn't like that. Same problem with Ghost Stories, for example. It was after one of those sessions where I thought the deck was starting to bend a little too much that I rippled shuffled it face-up and saw the Robinson Crusoe portraits all gyrating randomly and immediately realized I had my new avatar.
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Nov 5, 2022 01:44
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oliveoil posted:Bet you could automate a UI by hooking up dalle2 to gpt-3. One makes pictures and one makes text. That's all a UI really is, pictures and code in the form of text. That's 90% of the way. people, the king had returned
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Nov 5, 2022 01:51
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oliveoil posted:Bet you could automate a UI by hooking up dalle2 to gpt-3. One makes pictures and one makes text. That's all a UI really is, pictures and code in the form of text. That's 90% of the way. This is so breathtakingly naive that I have to assume it’s a troll.
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Nov 5, 2022 02:05
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read oliveoils previous posts. they're either trolling or the dumbest hackernews stereotype ever. which side of poes law you fall on is a personal matter
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Nov 5, 2022 02:13
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oliveoil posted:I don't know, probably not hard to do. Bet I could figure it out in a weekend if my brain was working right. lol, it doesn't sound like you've done much UI work eventually I think you're right that AI will automate most UI and API integration code that software engineers currently write. I work on something related to that, but afaict there's a long way to go before AI starts impacting that job market
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Nov 5, 2022 02:19
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StumblyWumbly posted:What are the AI/NN systems with the least oversight? Has it really solved any problems, or does it just get 90% of the way there, so it presents a bunch of close options and let the overseer pick/adjust the right answer? Recommendation systems and various search engines are probably the areas where AI has been the most successful. I know reinforcement learning has also been applied in a few areas (most notably elevator scheduling). Bond rating is a hard problem and there are high costs associated with making certain classifications regardless of whether they're wrong, so I would not expect AI to make inroads there.
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Nov 5, 2022 03:57
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therse some near shore contracting teams churning out enterprise fizz buzz in the name of clean architecture. i dont even know how to respond to it
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Nov 5, 2022 05:09
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oliveoil posted:Bet you could automate a UI by hooking up dalle2 to gpt-3. Achmed Jones posted:lol fuckin oliveoil is BACK baby
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Nov 5, 2022 07:38
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oliveoil posted:Bet you could automate a UI by hooking up dalle2 to gpt-3. This would be a good thread title for the Webdev thread.
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Nov 5, 2022 16:22
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Apropos of nothing, I recommend this three-part-series on the "is software engineering really engineering" question. The author interviewed a bunch of people who moved from "traditional" engineering to software, so they got perspectives on a wide range of disciplines. The tl;dr: - Not all software developers are engineers, but software engineering is definitely a thing. There are differences between e.g. software and civil engineering, but there's equally large differences between civil and chemical, or chemical and electrical, etc. We all have plenty in common though. - The perceived inadequacies in software (lack of licensing, formalism, etc) are cultural artifacts driven by specific historical events and/or a desire to gatekeep. They're also not nearly as pervasive as everyone seems to think they are. - Everyone would benefit from more interdisciplinary sharing. Trad engineers are very heavily silo'd and have little idea what it's like in other types of engineering or even just working on other topics in the same broad category (civil, electrical, chemical, etc) The author specifically cites open communities (especially non-academic non-trade-show conferences) and version control as two things that software has to offer the broader engineering world.
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Nov 7, 2022 01:29
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:The author specifically cites open communities (especially non-academic non-trade-show conferences) and version control as two things that software has to offer the broader engineering world. Version control outside software development is absolutely dire. I've had PM's hand me pdf's named VIRB-v2.5.3-jsmith-11-6-2022. Meaning they're not only tracking versions manually, but also who last edited the file. This is in companies where the software side had been using git for a decade. You'd think if anyone else adopted good version control software it'd be other people in the same company.
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Nov 7, 2022 02:44
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Just submitted my notice to go work for a small-ish national non-profit as a solo dev, with plans to build out a team as we expand. Good bye "ad tech", and please go gently caress yourself.
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Nov 7, 2022 19:41
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LLSix posted:Version control outside software development is absolutely dire. I've had PM's hand me pdf's named VIRB-v2.5.3-jsmith-11-6-2022. Meaning they're not only tracking versions manually, but also who last edited the file. This is in companies where the software side had been using git for a decade. You'd think if anyone else adopted good version control software it'd be other people in the same company. To be fair pdfs are not good choices to put in git
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Nov 7, 2022 20:36
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gbut posted:Just submitted my notice to go work for a small-ish national non-profit as a solo dev, with plans to build out a team as we expand. Nice! New Yorp New Yorp posted:To be fair pdfs are not good choices to put in git Um actually PDF is a text-based format so it totally works great!
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Nov 7, 2022 21:46
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oliveoil posted:Bet you could automate a UI by hooking up dalle2 to gpt-3. One makes pictures and one makes text. That's all a UI really is, pictures and code in the form of text. That's 90% of the way.  Looks great, put it into production immediately.
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Nov 7, 2022 21:55
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Most pdfs appear to be designed so you can't efficiently copy paste text out of them, unless I just totally missed your joke PDFs should be stored in primitives and generated on the fly as needed
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Nov 7, 2022 21:57
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Hadlock posted:Most pdfs appear to be designed so you can't efficiently copy paste text out of them, unless I just totally missed your joke The format itself is sorta human-readable ascii. But there's usually binary blobs and infinite ways to encode things that makes a pdf-unaware diff of the raw file contents quite useless.
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Nov 7, 2022 23:02
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Yeah, the article notes that one of the reasons software has such advanced version control is because the vast majority of our artifacts are plaintext files. It is possible to make diffing tools for more advanced file formats though! Different disciplines would probably end up needing their own UI layers on top of the basic VCS system, but it's not like it's unusual for different disciplines to have their own custom tooling.
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Nov 7, 2022 23:40
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Hadlock posted:PDFs should be stored in primitives and generated on the fly as needed LATEX!
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Nov 8, 2022 00:01
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git should just figure out how to do binary stuff well. it's not like people are suddenly going to stop checking binaries in
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Nov 8, 2022 01:00
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That's what annex or lfs is for
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Nov 8, 2022 02:18
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:It is possible to make diffing tools for more advanced file formats though! Different disciplines would probably end up needing their own UI layers on top of the basic VCS system, but it's not like it's unusual for different disciplines to have their own custom tooling. I moved to silicon valley to work for a company, many moons ago, whose product, at the end of the day was a visual differencing engine for json files The cofounder got really, really mad when this was all made glaringly obvious when one of the PMs wrote a script to convert jira epics into json files our product could injest, then used it during a meeting to visually difference all the tickets since last week's meeting Shortly thereafter they accelerated their plans to move away from that product
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Nov 8, 2022 02:25
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redleader posted:git should just figure out how to do binary stuff well. it's not like people are suddenly going to stop checking binaries in Definitely, but to really get the upsides of version control you don't just need to store data, you need to be able to merge different changes to the same file. You can't do that with opaque binary blobs even if your version control does manage to store them sensibly - you need to understand the file format to the point where you can identify the changes between two revisions, and correctly apply the same changes to a different baseline version.
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