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GhostofJohnMuir posted:i jumped into the last page of this thread without reading the rest, i'm assuming the first 20 pages are op saying these kinds of things and everybody laughing? It’s more like op calling people nerds for even the idea of having a plan or projections or estimates and buying used equipment with no warranty below MSRP as some kind of victory over the doubters. He did make a batch of donuts and also fried some uh crescent rolls I think.
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Nov 8, 2022 07:23
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i'm sure his friends and family said some very nice things about them too
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Nov 8, 2022 07:38
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You should read the thread if even just to feel better about yourself.
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Nov 8, 2022 07:57
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Democratic Pirate posted:knowing if you want to be a for-profit or non-profit is technically a step of a business plan Want to be is one thing, all but one person in this thread knows which it WILL be regardless of OP's wants and desires.
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Nov 8, 2022 10:14
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pseudanonymous posted:It’s more like op calling people nerds for even the idea of having a plan or projections or estimates and buying used equipment with no warranty below MSRP as some kind of victory over the doubters. I look forward to this list getting longer and sillier.
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Nov 8, 2022 10:46
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in'
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corgski posted:Let's do that math together, you're saying that selling 480 donuts will net you $550 per day pure profit after materials, labor, insurance, accounting, utilities, etc which you can then use to cover the costs of a full renovation and all the durable goods needed just to get your business to the point where you can legally open your doors on day one. Before taxes. Don’t forget that, I bet OP will. Like I’m not a “lawyer” or any fancy degree non journeyman card law guy, but I’m gonna stick my neck out there and will say that not paying taxes is “bad.”
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Nov 8, 2022 17:49
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Tnuctip posted:Before taxes. Don’t forget that, I bet OP will. Like I’m not a “lawyer” or any fancy degree non journeyman card law guy, but I’m gonna stick my neck out there and will say that not paying taxes is “bad.” Oh plenty of "small business owners" don't pay taxes, Im sure he's planning on being one of those.
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Nov 8, 2022 18:33
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pseudanonymous posted:It’s more like op calling people nerds for even the idea of having a plan or projections or estimates and buying used equipment with no warranty below MSRP as some kind of victory over the doubters. Good summary, only additions are the stage lights and crusty chairs from the stripper pizza place op bought.
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Nov 9, 2022 02:30
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Weatherman posted:Hey guys remember zaurg? Tasty, aren't I (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 9, 2022 05:52
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gently caress off Zorg
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Nov 9, 2022 12:20
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Hey maybe I can start up a lot cheaper by just building out the drive-through at first. One point of sale, 5/8 as much insulation and fascia walls, fewer staff, and no need for a fuckin retention pond to tame the runoff from ten car parking lot.
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Nov 9, 2022 15:35
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And what would you sell out of a drive through window in a building without a commercial kitchen and that hasn't gotten DOH approval? It would have to be packaged products only.
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Nov 9, 2022 15:52
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honda whisperer posted:Good summary, only additions are the stage lights and crusty chairs from the stripper pizza place op bought. Maybe he could do some type of miniature stage on the counter and set up the donuts self-serve style on tiny stripper poles?
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Nov 9, 2022 16:04
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Tnuctip posted:Before taxes. Don’t forget that, I bet OP will. Like I’m not a “lawyer” or any fancy degree non journeyman card law guy, but I’m gonna stick my neck out there and will say that not paying taxes is “bad.” The IRS is fake news
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Nov 9, 2022 16:16
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Rationale posted:Hey maybe I can start up a lot cheaper by just building out the drive-through at first. One point of sale, 5/8 as much insulation and fascia walls, fewer staff, and no need for a fuckin retention pond to tame the runoff from ten car parking lot. Have you done that traffic count yet? If so, what number did you get?
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Nov 9, 2022 16:22
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LanceHunter posted:Have you done that traffic count yet? If so, what number did you get? I’m off this Friday I’ll post up and count cars from like 7-730 I’ve seen figures from 4500-6000 cars a day. Also re:motronic the back half of the building will include the donut factory and the coffee bar.
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Nov 9, 2022 17:06
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Rationale posted:I met with a pro and he said probably 200k which blows but he said we can get all our permits and drawings from him for 3500-5000 and then contract or do the work ourselves. This part interests me as a friend tried to get a drive-thru Thai place approved in Oakland CA. His family owns a popular fast food Thai joint and he was looking to branch out. The city was more than happy to accept the fees for zoning/permit review etc. before saying "Sorry no go" based on potential traffic issues with the drive-thru. Is there a rough breakdown of the $200k? Why does the pro think the building has to be insulated on 5 sides?
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Nov 9, 2022 18:28
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On the one hand, scaling back to something more achievable can be a good move. On the other hand, if you're going to do it all eventually, isn't it much easier to insulate the building once, rather than twice? Plus if you're making and selling donuts, and you going to have time to finish the dining room? If you never finish the dining room, does all drive through still fit the bill?
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Nov 9, 2022 18:54
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Epitope posted:On the one hand, scaling back to something more achievable can be a good move. On the other hand, if you're going to do it all eventually, isn't it much easier to insulate the building once, rather than twice? Plus if you're making and selling donuts, and you going to have time to finish the dining room? If you never finish the dining room, does all drive through still fit the bill? Also, the walk in counter/area is the cheap part, so none of this make any sense. If it's a sit down dining room then you probably need bathrooms, which to your point would best be at least stubbed in first since it sounds like this ends up being a bunch of sanitary lines in the floor so of course that increases costs. But the real money is spent on the kitchen and making the rest of the building food safe enough to pass inspections. There's no money to be saved here other than whatever amount the counters/racks/tables/chairs would costs, which should be something like $135 in total with the kind of garbage OP is buying.
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Nov 9, 2022 19:02
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The building is classified as a warehouse right now and so it has zero insulation anywhere. If I could permit the kitchen alone and leave the front half of the building alone I could save a lot on materials. It’s like 80x25 so if I could insulate just the 40x25 in the back I’d be saving like a thousand square feet of fascia wall. Not to mention the disgusting floors and ceilings I’d need to address. It’d be cool if I could buy the dining room with drive-through money. Insulation hadn’t occurred to me when the guy brought it up and It’s going to be a big ticket item so I’m trying to find a way to soften the blow. The answer is probably working another year for these demons but maybe goons’ brains can spit out a solution along with all these problems
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Nov 9, 2022 19:16
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If you think insulation is "the expensive part" I urge you to look at your $200k estimate for a breakdown. If it's from someone legitimate it should indicate how much non-insulation and non-dining room areas cost to build. As seems to be typical, your numbers and estimates don't match any reality any of the people reading your thread are familiar with. Including those of us who have spent time in trades, food service management, etc. Not counting basic building envelope things, the real money is going to be building the kitchen in a way it passes both fire and health codes. Your $75k budget barely gets you basic mechanicals of a grease hood/ansul system/makeup air. Even if you already bought the hood at an auction. That's not the expensive part of a commercial hood system.
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Nov 9, 2022 19:24
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Park a conex in there, build the kitchen in that Rent out the other half Find a partner/investor
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Nov 9, 2022 19:30
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Rationale posted:The building is classified as a warehouse right now and so it has zero insulation anywhere. If I could permit the kitchen alone and leave the front half of the building alone I could save a lot on materials. It’s like 80x25 so if I could insulate just the 40x25 in the back I’d be saving like a thousand square feet of fascia wall. Not to mention the disgusting floors and ceilings I’d need to address. It’d be cool if I could buy the dining room with drive-through money. Thanks for sharing this. It's very interesting seeing the process unfold. Have you considered not having a dining area? My friend went back and forth on this and decided it wasn't worth the additional expense on the front end or in terms of ongoing maintenance and how he didn't want people hanging out for hours. Might affect your insurance liability costs too, though I'm often surprised at how relatively inexpensive insurance can be. The only way he could make the numbers work was to go minimalist- just a slightly bigger operation than what you might see at a street food stall with a very limited menu, nothing close to full scale restaurant build out. Note that he's spent 25+ years around his family's operation so things like food prep he's got down.
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Nov 9, 2022 19:37
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Rationale posted:It’s like 80x25 How tall are the ceilings?
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Nov 9, 2022 19:43
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Motronic posted:If you think insulation is "the expensive part" I urge you to look at your $200k estimate for a breakdown. If it's from someone legitimate it should indicate how much non-insulation and non-dining room areas cost to build. Are you a carpenter in Antarctica? 75k for a grease hood?
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Nov 9, 2022 20:03
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socketwrencher posted:How tall are the ceilings? 9’ ceilings but the roof joists are anywhere from 10-12’ from the slab.
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Nov 9, 2022 20:04
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Rationale posted:Are you a carpenter in Antarctica? 75k for a grease hood? Try reading all of the words this time. If this is an actual misunderstanding because you don't know what some of those things I mentioned are then ask.
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Nov 9, 2022 20:05
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Fire suppression systems are not cheap, adding to it you will have a fryer (or multiple?) which is additional poo poo for the fire system to deal with. And I really think you're overemphasizing the drive through. The most efficient drive throughs ever (Chick-fil-A) take like 6 people to be slightly faster than everyone else using maybe 3 people, and they're still looking at ~2 minutes per car from ordering to leaving. You will not get anywhere near that with one person taking orders and money at a single window and also then serving that car. Your whole plan (  ) seems to be "build it and they will come" which is...bold, I guess, but how many people are really going to turn off the road to go through your donut drive through and then have to deal with leaving your parking lot to get back to the road?
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Nov 9, 2022 20:13
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Rationale posted:9’ ceilings but the roof joists are anywhere from 10-12’ from the slab. Ok not too bad compared to some warehouses. Doesn't seem like you need 1600+ sq ft for a kitchen and counter/drive-thru window. Starting as small as possible seems like the way to go from here in the cheap seats.
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Nov 9, 2022 20:18
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Humerus posted:And I really think you're overemphasizing the drive through. The most efficient drive throughs ever (Chick-fil-A) take like 6 people to be slightly faster than everyone else using maybe 3 people, and they're still looking at ~2 minutes per car from ordering to leaving. You will not get anywhere near that with one person taking orders and money at a single window and also then serving that car. Yeah I wonder about drive-thru. Out my way it seems like people are lazy as hell and they'll wait 10-20 minutes and even longer at places like In-N-Out, so I'm inclined to think drive-thru could be a draw. The OP may also be overestimating demand so it may not be 10-20 cars lined up even during the busiest times but more like 3-10. I'd even venture that most of his business would be drive-thru but who knows.
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Nov 9, 2022 20:32
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socketwrencher posted:Yeah I wonder about drive-thru. Out my way it seems like people are lazy as hell and they'll wait 10-20 minutes and even longer at places like In-N-Out, so I'm inclined to think drive-thru could be a draw. The OP may also be overestimating demand so it may not be 10-20 cars lined up even during the busiest times but more like 3-10. I'd even venture that most of his business would be drive-thru but who knows. Who the hell is waiting 10-20 minutes for donuts? Is this 1996 and Krispy Kreme signs are new and popping up everywhere? I think it's a safe bet that "OP may be overestimating demand." This might in fact be the understatement of the year on SA 2022. Do Dunks or Tim Horton's or other lower-end drip-and-donut places do much business through drive-through? I've mostly only seen them in urban settings, so I don't know if they have big drive-through business in the burbs. But that's what OP should be looking at, not In-N-Out, as a comparison.
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Nov 9, 2022 21:03
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I can speak with authority of having gone to the ma and pa donut shop drive through. I was at the window less than 60 seconds. They don't have an intercom and it was 1 guy doing everything for me. I think there was 1 other person in there. Chick fil a is not a donut shop
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Nov 9, 2022 21:09
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Admiralty Flag posted:Who the hell is waiting 10-20 minutes for donuts? Is this 1996 and Krispy Kreme signs are new and popping up everywhere? I see people waiting in pretty long lines (5-10+ cars) for breakfast at McDonalds every day. Horton's does drive-thru in some locations.
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Nov 9, 2022 21:09
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The dunkies fifteen minutes in either direction have lines out to the street from like 7–1
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Nov 9, 2022 21:31
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Rationale posted:The dunkies fifteen minutes in either direction have lines out to the street from like 7–1 Yeah but is that demand or them being slow? Also I assume your looking at that as them being your customers soon, so why are they driving 15 minutes out of the way to goto yours?
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Nov 9, 2022 21:43
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Average dunkin does about a million a year so it can’t be too too slow. And the flip side of your question is that there’d be a fifteen minute radius where my shop is the most convenient. Also the donuts are made beforehand so my process will be much simpler than Taco Bell or whoever
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Nov 9, 2022 22:11
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Rationale posted:And the flip side of your question is that there’d be a fifteen minute radius where my shop is the most convenient. Will it though? Is your shop somewhere people go or somewhere people pass? Like if there's a Dunkin closer to downtown or an office park people might be likely to pass by your store in favor of one closer to where they're ending up.
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Nov 9, 2022 22:22
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Are you going to get your ServSafe and HACCP certs?
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Nov 9, 2022 22:54
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Yeah good point I can get the ball rolling so I don’t poison a whole Cub Scout troop E: for real thank you that’s really something I need schooled on before I design the kitchen Rationale fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Nov 9, 2022 |
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Nov 9, 2022 23:22
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zaurg posted:Tasty, aren't I Have you been saving $20 bills every paycheck?
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Nov 10, 2022 00:30
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