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OddObserver posted:If you could grow opium in more in-game places you would have less incentive to do imperialism. Rubber, oil, and to a lesser extent coal, iron, sulphur, tea and silk are all already pretty potent drivers of that. I don't think you need opium to be as rare as it is to incentivise imperialism. Opium's position in the game right now seems a little weird. Field hospitals are one of the most potent military upgrades you can get in the early on- more potent, I think, than simple troop or arty upgrades because they're operating on an entire other axis of performance (recovery effect), and thus having a multiplicative effect- but require vast quantities of opium to fuel. The key to military success in this game appears to be "annex Vietnam early and turn the entirety of Tonkin into a single giant poppy plantation", which... seems like sort of a strange dynamic to me? I do not feel like opium-fueled space marines "makes sense" in the game's narrative?? I'm just sort of not vibing with that??? There's also no synthetic alternative. Synth rubber (1909, 1931) and synth oil (1913, 1925) were at least late enough developments that their omission sort of makes sense? (Plus: if you haven't done enough imperialism to secure yourself a supply of those resources I feel like you're probably not going to have the coal necessary to fuel ersatz production anyway). But ether was first synthesised in 1275 and began to be used as an anaesthetic in the 1840s. KOGAHAZAN!! fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Nov 8, 2022 |
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Nov 8, 2022 17:55
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opium-fueled space marines absolutely doesn't make sense but it lets me destroy GPs with like a third of their army size during the 1860s so who is to say whether it's good or bad. they do start using the stuff eventually although if they are importing from you (which everyone but britain or france will be, probably) they'll start to take penalties when you cut their supply off during the war
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Nov 8, 2022 17:58
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Agean90 posted:a lot of heavy reforms are, getting rid of slavery in my Persia game required an armed standoff with the land owners yea, this really needs to be expanded on. if you have a professional army and a dedicated police force, which seem to fall under the armed forces ig even though they're not depicted in game, there should be some additional actions when a rebellion of any kind stalls out at the mid-fifties or whatever. there are zero consequences for trying to rise up against the bey and that's just dumb. I've got all the guns and the men to use them, why can't I get a new ig leader with the right political trait or even a semi-neutral one like market liberal? maybe doing so would ramp up turmoil in the country or drive their opinion to negative one hundred with a long decay back to zero, but the fact they get to go back to heir merry slave-owning lives doesn't seem well thought out.
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Nov 8, 2022 18:03
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In general I feel like the aftermath of a civil war could use some work. Like especially if an autocratic nation won the civil war, I feel like they should be furiously deporting, imprisoning, and executing as many of the losers as they could get their hands on, causing major demographic and political shifts for at least the short-medium term. Conversely even a democratic nation might have to struggle with how to integrate the defeated pops into the political order a la Reconstruction.
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Nov 8, 2022 18:10
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Tomn posted:In general I feel like the aftermath of a civil war could use some work. Like especially if an autocratic nation won the civil war, I feel like they should be furiously deporting, imprisoning, and executing as many of the losers as they could get their hands on, causing major demographic and political shifts for at least the short-medium term. Conversely even a democratic nation might have to struggle with how to integrate the defeated pops into the political order a la Reconstruction.
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Nov 8, 2022 18:14
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:Rubber, oil, and to a lesser extent coal, iron, sulphur, tea and silk are all already pretty potent drivers of that. I don't think you need opium to be as rare as it is to incentivise imperialism. Rubber and oil not having an alternative is probably good design to simulate the time period because those were critical late game war resources that you should need to exploit. The issue is that the AI isn't responding to market demand the way it should and we can't use our great power influence to develop puppet states or client states or protectorates or whatever. Honestly, just one change whether it's better AI or the ability to develop for the AI would fix the issue. The opium thing is a problem, agreed, but that's one thing among many that need addressing with regards to consumption number fixes. The game is pretty good but some of the production stuff does need some fine tuning here and there. It's weird that my navy is the best in the world power with only 20 shipyards that employ about 100k people, but my glassware and paper industries are individually about six or seven times that and I'm still hitting shortages in my country. Even if you factor in the steel and engines that the shipyards use it's still insignificant compared to the civilian domestic goods numbers. I'm not sure if that's actually by design though.
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Nov 8, 2022 18:16
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ItohRespectArmy posted:on one hand rolling to 99% as prussia passing national guard feels really bad Getting lucky with legislation RNG is satisfying, but usually feels pretty nonsensical. Like, most of my reforms as Austria, including jumping straight from the starting discrimination law to abolishing racism, were thanks to X-Com rolls where only 15% or so of parliament actually wanted the new law. Same goes for magically solving America's race issues in the first decade of the game. I wonder if it'd be better if you needed to at least 40-50% support for laws to start having a chance of passing, along with more options for players to negotiate that support. It would make more sense, anyway.
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Nov 8, 2022 18:34
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Dayton Sports Bar posted:Getting lucky with legislation RNG is satisfying, but usually feels pretty nonsensical. Like, most of my reforms as Austria, including jumping straight from the starting discrimination law to abolishing racism, were thanks to X-Com rolls where only 15% or so of parliament actually wanted the new law. Same goes for magically solving America's race issues in the first decade of the game. Legislature Laws: Supermajority required. Good luck passing poo poo, ever. 
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Nov 8, 2022 18:35
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Dayton Sports Bar posted:Getting lucky with legislation RNG is satisfying, but usually feels pretty nonsensical. Like, most of my reforms as Austria, including jumping straight from the starting discrimination law to abolishing racism, were thanks to X-Com rolls where only 15% or so of parliament actually wanted the new law. Same goes for magically solving America's race issues in the first decade of the game. I believe they said they’re changing it in the next patch so you need some minimal amount of legitimacy and support to pass stuff, or something like that.
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Nov 8, 2022 19:05
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Arrath posted:Legislature Laws: Supermajority required. I mean, that's why I mentioned getting more ways to increase support. Or at the very least require more support than opposition to start rolling for a law to pass. Because laws getting enacted even though the majority of the government (and the absolute monarch!) are in active opposition is very silly. megane posted:I believe they said they’re changing it in the next patch so you need some minimal amount of legitimacy and support to pass stuff, or something like that. Oh! Forgot about that.
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Nov 8, 2022 19:14
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:Rubber, oil, and to a lesser extent coal, iron, sulphur, tea and silk are all already pretty potent drivers of that. I don't think you need opium to be as rare as it is to incentivise imperialism. There absolutely should be factories for synthetic opiods- further, they really should add a method to switch over completely to one good production. It is annoying as hell to have a massive surplus of wood and steamers because I want ironclads and hardwood.
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Nov 8, 2022 19:14
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Pump it up! Do it! posted:There absolutely should be factories for synthetic opiods- further, they really should add a method to switch over completely to one good production. It is annoying as hell to have a massive surplus of wood and steamers because I want ironclads and hardwood. Sliders. Maybe one day.
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Nov 8, 2022 19:48
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Dayton Sports Bar posted:I mean, that's why I mentioned getting more ways to increase support. Or at the very least require more support than opposition to start rolling for a law to pass. Because laws getting enacted even though the majority of the government (and the absolute monarch!) are in active opposition is very silly.
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Nov 8, 2022 19:49
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Man once you start chopping away at the landowner's laws it becomes an avalanche real fast. In fifteen years I was able to end serfdom, end slavery, institute landed voting, end the monarchy, get census sufferage and institute public schools. Arabia is now a great power, though we're really a fringe power with Spain and Italy. Also the military is communist now thanks to one vanguardist leader popping up. Game is real good.
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Nov 8, 2022 19:51
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Dayton Sports Bar posted:I mean, that's why I mentioned getting more ways to increase support. Or at the very least require more support than opposition to start rolling for a law to pass. Because laws getting enacted even though the majority of the government (and the absolute monarch!) are in active opposition is very silly.
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Nov 8, 2022 19:54
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the weirdest law event is the one where the monarch basically says "get it done, +20%", because there is, as far as i know, no opposing event where the monarch says "hey gently caress your dumb law, -20%"
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Nov 8, 2022 19:56
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one thing with laws is that opposition is what gives the chance to stall - a 51 to 49 proposal will very likely stall out, but a 10 to 0 proposal will, eventually, pass, despite starting only at a 10% chance. e: Jazerus posted:the weirdest law event is the one where the monarch basically says "get it done, +20%", because there is, as far as i know, no opposing event where the monarch says "hey gently caress your dumb law, -20%" there is
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Nov 8, 2022 19:58
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Anyone have a mod that fixes the bug with immortal leaders? Scanned Steam’s workshop but couldn’t see any.
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Nov 8, 2022 20:02
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Jazerus posted:the weirdest law event is the one where the monarch basically says "get it done, +20%", because there is, as far as i know, no opposing event where the monarch says "hey gently caress your dumb law, -20%" The Meiji Emperor did this to me. gently caress that guy. Although I guess it was when I was trying to end his existence and replace him with a Parliament so maybe I'm being too harsh. No, gently caress that guy.
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Nov 8, 2022 20:02
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Tiler Kiwi posted:one thing with laws is that opposition is what gives the chance to stall - a 51 to 49 proposal will very likely stall out, but a 10 to 0 proposal will, eventually, pass, despite starting only at a 10% chance. Yeah this is the thing to pay attention to - 10% support doesn't mean "only 10% of the house wants this" it means "only 10% of the house wants this badly enough to actively push for it". The advance and positive debate events are meant to represent that activist minority campaigning for the issue and turning it into a majority support one. IGs are neutral on a lot of issues and that's why the support often starts off low. Ithle01 posted:The Meiji Emperor did this to me. gently caress that guy. Funny thing is when I did the Meiji restoration he rolled as a republican and actively supported ending the monarchy (he was even neutral on becoming a council republic). I can just imagine him sitting there thinking "Finally, after centuries of domination by the Shogunate, control of Japan has returned to the rightful hands of the emperor. I hate it. Please replace me" The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Nov 8, 2022 |
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Nov 8, 2022 20:04
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On the subject of politics, I will note that I found remaining a constitutional monarchy to be pretty effective if you can hamstring your landowners in other ways. Maintaining the sop of having a monarch can provide an ongoing safety valve for approval in interest groups that would otherwise be ripshit pissed about the changes you’re making, and can help keep discontent at “muttered grumbling” levels instead of “Counterrevolution NOW” levels. Turns out going full Jacobin sends certain internet groups into fight-or-die mode when you could compromise and keep them onside with relatively small changes, who knew? Also I’m not sure how well communicated this is, but it’s worth noting that passing a law which a given interest group hates applies a lasting penalty to approval that fades in time. They do stack, however, so if you’ve been two-handed ramming every reform you can the minute a law was passed, all those added disapproval penalties is what’s leading to concentrated radicalism and eventually revolution. It’s possible to slow your roll and boil the frog so that radicalism never gets too dangerous even as you steadily dismantle the old order, though this does take more time. Edit: it’s me, I am the true blue centrist moralintern. Tomn fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Nov 8, 2022 |
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Nov 8, 2022 20:20
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Yeah, the short term approval penalty for a law change can be as strong as -10 or even -20 for a "strongly oppose", but the long term one is only -1 or -2. Trying to ram through a bunch of changes at once leads to a lot more angry IGs than taking a mixed approach. I feel like a mistake a lot of people make when trying to get the landowners out of power is exclusively pursuing the laws that weaken them and ignoring anything else, but there are a bunch of laws you can pass in between big changes that are still helpful that the landowners are neutral on, or sometimes even ones they like. If you can make them happy without making them stronger, it gives you a good buffer to get something through they don't like without them going to war over it. The way to approach law changes is that you don't have to shoot for your final "build" immediately. You can grab intermediary laws or make other temporary changes that will help you reach your longer term goals. Once the landowners are marginalized then you can get more ambitious because they won't have the power to stop you anymore.
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Nov 8, 2022 20:27
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you can also undermine power by just getting + promoting admirals and generals of the political faction / ideology you approve of. these figures have a big chance to become leaders of the IGs as well so if you can tolerate pissing them all off for five years (for dismissals) you can just mill generals to get a bunch of vanguardists in power
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Nov 8, 2022 20:31
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there should be a pharmaceuticals building that has a PM that more efficiently produces Medicines with opium but otherwise uses chemicals (maybe fertilizer for that abstraction) to produce what the barracks and conscription centers consume for hospitals, as well as a general pop need. hospitals as a whole as part of urban centers might make more sense though. but yeah this feels almost obvious but I couldn’t find a mod for it.
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Nov 8, 2022 20:39
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+1 to the idea of adding strategic reserves to the game. It's really weird that apparently the concept of a "warehouse" did not exist in the industrial age. It would be real nice to save some amount of arms and construction materials as a buffer against huge spikes in demand. Also, being able to prepare for future building goods substitutions without the sometimes awkward period of building up supply before there is enough demand. Subsidies help a bit in some cases but only if you have the right laws in place.
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Nov 8, 2022 20:52
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We could also use coca plantations.
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Nov 8, 2022 20:53
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Has anyone figured out how frontage/battle army size works?
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Nov 8, 2022 21:03
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I think my problem with the legislature is that it's so very passive. You hit go on the law and either the dice roll in your favour or they don't. The bulk of your input is rearranging the government to maximise roll chances, and that's a) all up front and b) eminently solvable. The event pool doesn't really help, because it's like:
I could use something with a little more push and pull.
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Nov 8, 2022 21:09
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Barnaby Barnacle posted:We could also use coca plantations. there’s a lot of nice to haves but apparently the number of trade goods is SEVERELY restricted right now. It brings me no pleasure to write this.
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Nov 8, 2022 21:09
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Restricted how? Like the game has a hard cap on trade goods?
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Nov 8, 2022 21:12
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VostokProgram posted:Restricted how? Like the game has a hard cap on trade goods? One of the devs on a stream mentioned that if you have more than 50 the game begins slowing to a crawl almost immediately. Likely means their algorithms around it are polynomial or - shudder - factorial
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Nov 8, 2022 21:19
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Waifu Radia posted:One of the devs on a stream mentioned that if you have more than 50 the game begins slowing to a crawl almost immediately. Likely means their algorithms around it are polynomial or - shudder - factorial It's probably the substitution logic. I could see that being slower than linear
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Nov 8, 2022 21:21
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Waifu Radia posted:One of the devs on a stream mentioned that if you have more than 50 the game begins slowing to a crawl almost immediately. Likely means their algorithms around it are polynomial or - shudder - factorial lol this is the worst thing about this game I've ever heard.
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Nov 8, 2022 21:25
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Waifu Radia posted:One of the devs on a stream mentioned that if you have more than 50 the game begins slowing to a crawl almost immediately. Likely means their algorithms around it are polynomial or - shudder - factorial Oh no lol. Still, weird that "Cocaine addict" is a trait, presumably they're partaking of the Devil's dandruff somehow.
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Nov 8, 2022 21:31
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:
There is kind of a way to save scum these things if you're really frustrated. If you kick someone out of government or add someone in, it can change things enough that you get a different random event. Though I suppose if a mechanic compels one to save scum it's probably got some issues.
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Nov 8, 2022 21:31
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Waifu Radia posted:One of the devs on a stream mentioned that if you have more than 50 the game begins slowing to a crawl almost immediately. Likely means their algorithms around it are polynomial or - shudder - factorial Since Radia is referencing something I told her- my recollection is that it was, I think either the Mexico stream or a segment of the release day stream, with Wiz and Paul Depre- is that Ofaloaf?- where they're discussing coal in the game, and how they want to maybe split coal into different types- anthracite, lignite, etc- so as to better model the fact that not all coal was equally useful for all purposes, and not everywhere with coal had every type- I think Germany notably had a lot of lignite, which is basically dogshit, and not a lot of anthracite, which is what you really want for, say, steel production. And that turned into a discussion of the problems involved with adding more types of good, and then jokes about the inevitable megamod that will introduce a thousand hyper-niche goods, at which point the non-Wiz dev makes an offhand comment that if anyone tries to go much above fifty, they're going to start running into serious performance problems. Though, before you even get to that, the game's UI is barely sufficient to handle the number of goods it already has.
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Nov 8, 2022 21:33
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Funny thing is when I did the Meiji restoration he rolled as a republican and actively supported ending the monarchy (he was even neutral on becoming a council republic). I can just imagine him sitting there thinking "Finally, after centuries of domination by the Shogunate, control of Japan has returned to the rightful hands of the emperor. I hate it. Please replace me" Mine was an innovative industrialist. I could have used him to pass laissez-faire economy instantly and rode the tech boom, but I'm an idiot and decided to go towards liberal democracy with a side of Korean conquest instead of full Japan Co-Prosperity Sphere like I should have done. I blame my late bloom into colonialism because my first shogun - who lived through the first half of the game - was a pacifist who opposed colonialism in all forms.
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Nov 8, 2022 21:39
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I feel like the law changes should be easier to run in parallel, but maybe take more time to go into effect. If I've got a contentious change that's on its third year of debate, it shouldn't block an uncontroversial change to a different area. And it's also weird that law changes go to into effect instantly. Just because the law says that everyone is allowed to vote doesn't mean that everyone is actually allowed to vote. Maybe make every state have their own local laws, and the rate that they implement a new law would depend on local administrative offices and interest groups dragging their feet. So, if you want to institute religious schools and everyone loves the idea, it still might take time if you don't have bureaucracy set up in a state to facilitate it. And if you try to abolish serfdom in a remote state that's fully agricultural, they might take their time actually letting the serfs know they don't have to be serfs anymore. And this would mean that civil wars could occur on much more sensible lines. If there's a revolt against women's suffrage, the states that have been stalling progress the whole time are going to be the ones that split off. And this would also be a neat way to spend authority on. You could use a decree to speed up implementation in a stubborn state. Summary: Fast resolution of law changes. Success means the law has minimal resistance and has a boost to implementation. It can get delayed once or twice, but after that it gets forced through, and is either contentious or resisted as it's implemented. Allow multiple laws to be run at the same time, which isn't a big problem if it doesn't piss off too many people and your admin can handle the change.
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Nov 8, 2022 22:00
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Pump it up! Do it! posted:There absolutely should be factories for synthetic opiods Synthetic opioids that aren't synthesized from poppy latex aren't a thing in this time period. Demerol is 1938, methadone is post-WWII. The unrealistic thing in V3 is that takes a ridiculous amount of opium to set up field hospitals for even a modest-sized army, and you can't benefit from late-19th-century advances in medicine like sanitation, anatomy, dedicated nursing corps, infection treatment, tourniquets, etc. without massive amounts of opium. Anesthesia was a big part of that but the challenge was logistical, making sure medical corps were stocked with any medicine at all and trained to use it, not sourcing raw materials for the morphine itself.
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Nov 8, 2022 22:34
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:I feel like the law changes should be easier to run in parallel, but maybe take more time to go into effect. It's honestly a bit weird that there isn't some kind of institution for voting access (not that institutions don't have their own issues). There should probably also be one for immigration. The amount of immigration you get per month or whatever should have a cap based on how much bureaucracy you can invest in processing immigrants.
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Nov 8, 2022 22:59
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