|
IShallRiseAgain posted:So Mick Gordon made a public statement about the OST situation https://medium.com/@mickgordon/my-full-statement-regarding-doom-eternal-5f98266b27ce#b04c Seems highly feasibly he got screwed over and ID/Bethesda tried to shift all the blame to him. Thanks for posting this. Man Mick got hosed over. At least the salaried staff was getting paid while they did extra months of crunch and suffering.
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2022 17:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 10:15 |
|
|
What a shitshow. How can you hire someone of Mick's level and then dare claim they're the problem.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2022 18:02
|
|
|
IShallRiseAgain posted:So Mick Gordon made a public statement about the OST situation https://medium.com/@mickgordon/my-full-statement-regarding-doom-eternal-5f98266b27ce#b04c Seems highly feasibly he got screwed over and ID/Bethesda tried to shift all the blame to him. Yeah this is hosed. Justice for mick. Sue the assholes for libel. Well no that'll just make for more lawyer headaches but holy poo poo does he deserve a bigger check.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2022 18:06
|
|
|
Never trust a corporation. Crunch culture and management in any industry is absolutely hosed.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2022 18:09
|
|
|
Reminiscing and lolling about some old posts from when Marty posted on redditquote:much ado about nothing, the guy can't work to deadlines, even extended generously, don't work with him again. music was good but someone else will do just as good and deliver on time. it's good they made the whole story known in detail. quote:They did delay it, by more than the artist requested, and still didn't hit the deadline. You should read the letter. quote:how do you come to the conclusion that moving on from working with mick, after reading id's accounting of the situation, is a red flag quote:Important to point out I think that we really only have one side of the story in detail, though given the nature of NDAs and potential for legal issues I doubt Stratton would have been so detailed without being truthful. my favorite: quote:Also to note: what's important is that Mick was asked to provide 12 songs. Not the entire OST, just 12 songs. He couldn't get that done (and it's explicitly stated that he couldn't, so unless you think Stratton is lying about that, you gotta assume this happened). Failure to mix 12 songs is kind of Mick's fault I think.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2022 18:19
|
|
|
How to issue a 3 year old chargeback to Bethesda and refund Doom Eternal? What a horrible situation. And yeah this really explains the few bits of Eternal that aren't so good.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2022 18:20
|
|
|
I really hope that Marty will be legally forced to issue an apology, because I somehow think that it's probably the worst thing that you can inflict upon him. It's probably not gonna happen because there's no justice in this world but one can dream.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2022 18:21
|
|
|
Doomykins posted:How to issue a 3 year old chargeback to Bethesda and refund Doom Eternal? What a horrible situation. And yeah this really explains the few bits of Eternal that aren't so good. I assume you're half-joking but don't chargeback digital stores if you care about your account, it will probably get banned and you'll lose everything on there
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2022 18:26
|
|
|
Mick mentions he was working on another Bethesda OST in 2015 that ended up getting rushed and then didn't get released even after he finished it and didn't get paid since he hadn't signed a contract yet. What game would this have been? Far as I can tell all the Wolfenstein games had their soundtracks released. He says that the album eventually got released in 2019, what would it have been?
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2022 18:28
|
|
|
repiv posted:I assume you're half-joking but don't chargeback digital stores if you care about your account, it will probably get banned and you'll lose everything on there Thanks for the advice but fortunately yes I am joking. Unfortunately this is the kind of scummy thing that makes me want to drop business entirely.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2022 18:43
|
|
|
Arc Hammer posted:Mick mentions he was working on another Bethesda OST in 2015 that ended up getting rushed and then didn't get released even after he finished it and didn't get paid since he hadn't signed a contract yet. Did he do the Wolfenstein DLCs? Might have been for that or some similar expansion thing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2022 20:10
|
|
|
Mick Gordon posted:I’m happy to hear Marty feels I deserve DOOM’s music awards because the truth is those trophies are kept locked in the id Software office. I’ve only ever seen them once. Behind glass. From a distance. Nobody has ever offered to send me copies. Thanks to the show’s producers, I was invited to perform at the Game Awards, but other than that, id Software never invited me to collect awards in person. Marty invited himself to collect the awards on my behalf instead. It would mean a lot to have a memento of all the hard work I poured into the DOOM franchise, but as it currently stands, I doubt I’ll ever see those awards again. lmao. Mick sadly couldn't be here to accept these awards (because we didn't invite him)
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2022 20:24
|
|
|
Finished reading the statement. Jesus loving christ, Stratton, Bethesda, Zenimax, all of you loving cretins. Neo Rasa posted:Did he do the Wolfenstein DLCs? Might have been for that or some similar expansion thing. Looked it up and it was Wolfenstein Old Blood. That OST didn't get released until 2019. So Bethesda, Id and Machine Games all hosed him over. Surprised he even worked on Wolfenstein 2 after that. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Nov 9, 2022 |
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2022 20:25
|
|
|
I really hated the music they got for the DLC. One key point of Micks soundtrack is that while its constructed harsh noise, it has grooves and memorable riffs. He even mentions in his long talk about it that the soundtrack was originally 'heavier' with more blast beats but the groove based approach works better for the gameplay. The DLC is all abrasive riffs with no groove.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2022 21:00
|
|
|
I don't know about that. The DLC has several tracks I think are bangers. UAC Atlantica Light feels very tense. Blood Swamps Ambient/Light are really moody. The credits theme has great riffs IMO, and I found it memorable.
Esran fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Nov 9, 2022 |
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2022 21:16
|
|
|
The ARC Complex music absolutely loving slaps and it makes me real mad I can't get a decent quality copy of that track.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2022 21:30
|
|
|
Mick's music is unique and instantly iconic but Andrew Hulshult's music fuckin rips too, just with a different vibe
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2022 21:37
|
|
|
Mick's collab with Tex Perkins called "The Partisan" is a fantastic song and probably one of my favorite pieces of music in any game ever.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2022 21:44
|
|
|
hey this mick stuff is really hosed up and pisses me way the gently caress off. has marty/id/bethesda made any kind of response yet? i want to know if they're going to try to do anything right now that it's been made a public issue or if they're gonna try to throw mick under more
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2022 23:46
|
|
|
The pattern so far has been "Throw mick under the bus some more" so I fully expect they're talking about how best they can do this. There's a small but nonzero possibility that if this story gets enough heat, Marty's higher ups might start revisiting the math on who's cheaper to throw under the bus, Mick or Marty. But that'd be plan B. Plan A is most likely to stay the course and figure out whether it's possible to shut Mick up, and if not, how they can get people to stop listening to him (more smears, etc.) and ignore Marty/id's part in it. If they go that route it may eventually end up in court.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2022 23:52
|
|
|
It is telling that Mick spent 2 years trying to be a professional about the whole thing, going by his account, only to be demanded to fall on his own sword.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2022 00:01
|
|
|
This whole OST saga is a fuckin' bummer but like with Taylor/Bayonetta, I'm gonna have to wait for a response. At least Gordon brought his own receipts and didn't come out with unhinged poo poo from the getgo, but man is it breaking my heart that this is all over what's probably my favorite game ever 
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2022 00:16
|
|
|
ID just jamming every piece of music Mick recorded into the game actually explains a lot about why it doesn't feel as organic as 2016's music. 2016 uses layers similar to Portal 2's music where certain parts of a song are emphasized based on player action triggers. That's why you got certain music stings when performing glory kills or headshots in 2016 and it felt like you were conducting the music via gameplay. I noticed this wasn't really in Eternal and now I know why.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2022 00:17
|
|
|
Unlucky7 posted:going by his account
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2022 00:20
|
|
|
Arc Hammer posted:ID just jamming every piece of music Mick recorded into the game actually explains a lot about why it doesn't feel as organic as 2016's music. 2016 uses layers similar to Portal 2's music where certain parts of a song are emphasized based on player action triggers. That's why you got certain music stings when performing glory kills or headshots in 2016 and it felt like you were conducting the music via gameplay.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2022 00:29
|
|
|
I believe Mick Gordon and yeah that is bad phrasing on my part.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2022 00:31
|
|
|
Mick Gordon is the singular exception to the axiom "never trust a man with two first names." I trust Mick.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2022 00:32
|
|
|
Mister Speaker posted:I trust Mick.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2022 00:34
|
|
|
Jfc. Man has receipts for days and a statement clearly prepared with lawyer aid. Someone is about to have a real poo poo day.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2022 00:49
|
|
|
I know too many people who've been hosed over by the gaming industry not to trust Mick Gordon. gently caress iD and Marty Stratton with a BFG.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2022 00:50
|
|
|
Wow, that sure was a read that, just when it seems like it's not possible, keeps getting worse as it goes on. Poor Mick, I really hope he gets some kind of justice because it sure seems like the statement Marty put out is a complete fabrication and he's clearly got the receipts to prove it
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2022 00:50
|
|
|
Man, why does someone always get hosed over for doing their job well  On the other hand, that was a very well researched and presented rebuttal/defense.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2022 01:06
|
|
|
toasterwarrior posted:This whole OST saga is a fuckin' bummer but like with Taylor/Bayonetta, I'm gonna have to wait for a response. At least Gordon brought his own receipts and didn't come out with unhinged poo poo from the getgo, but man is it breaking my heart that this is all over what's probably my favorite game ever I'm glad he brought receipts too, but Mick's (very-appropriately-lawyered) statement would be the response to this amazing work of poo poo Stratton put out. The production of receipts and a detailed timeline is already greatly separating this from a "I made a video on Twitter with nothing else" situation like Taylor.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2022 01:25
|
|
|
Yeah but it's also been three years since that post, along with neither party at the time showing receipts. Considering this reveal by Gordon on an equal level with the open letter due to some who shot first thinking is pedantry I'm not even going to humor. I'll wait for a response, and if they don't then that's iD's answer. But I daresay they might have something to show too, if people keep playing up Zenimax's reputation as lawyer-heavy.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2022 01:35
|
|
|
Wow, gently caress Marty. What complete nightmare behavior.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2022 01:39
|
|
|
Wow! Well that is certainly some poo poo. My opinion of Doom Eternal as a game is generally that I disliked it even before learning this. I know I'm probably having some conformation bias or whatever, but I think Doom 2016 is pretty much amazing all the way through where I think Eternal is a disjointed mess. Like take ARC Complex for instance one of the most popular levels, you go through almost this entire level to activate a couple guns and blow some tentacles away from a big door so you can go past it, and once you do, you just open a portal back to your ship from the other side as soon as you are there. So like, why didn't you just portal past the tentacles in the first place? Doom 2016 had the plot organically make it obvious that using portals was not something you could just do anytime and to any place you wanted. In 2016 you went places for a reason and followed a path because opening portals took real effort, came at a significant cost and even then weren't necessarily all that convenient because they were often fixed points at both ends. In 2016 Doom Guy rode a train for 200 kilometers which made one map flow into another in a convincing and organic way. There are even remnants of that theme in the Mars Core level of Eternal, why do you stuff yourself into a cannon to shoot yourself across a map? Because portals are hard. Except they aren't because your ship can just open one to any place that is convenient to start/stop the level. Never mind that the gameplay in Eternal was just a bit too frantic and I felt like I was struggling to spin so many plates/cooldowns at once. The last time I did a casual playthrough of 2016 from a new save I was debating on if I should play on HMP or UV since I was just doing it to relax and enjoy some time off, I was like "well I want it to be easy, but not too easy you know"... So ultimately I compromised and played it all the way through on Nightmare and the whole time it was challenging but I was actually feeling like this mythical "Doom Slayer" that kept demons on the back foot out of nothing but pure spite. But in Eternal, even "I'm too young to die" is just a slog, I don't die, but the challenge isn't fighting the demons, its fighting the constant resource management.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2022 01:49
|
|
|
toasterwarrior posted:Yeah but it's also been three years since that post, along with neither party at the time showing receipts. Considering this reveal by Gordon on an equal level with the open letter due to some who shot first thinking is pedantry I'm not even going to humor. I'll wait for a response, and if they don't then that's iD's answer. But I daresay they might have something to show too, if people keep playing up Zenimax's reputation as lawyer-heavy. The extended timeline before Mick went public is pretty appropriate if you're working with lawyers. A year and a half of negotiations with Zenimax/Bethesda lawyers would mean no coming public with any statements on either side if you're trying to get an amicable resolution, and if one side is performing stalling tactics to draw it out then it can take even longer. The statement Mick posted I said was lawyered because it's got the hallmarks of a statement that someone ran past their lawyers like a clear definition of terms used, detailed timeline, and statements clarifying where where wrongs were and weren't committed (like Bethesda paying out for the March-April OST Contract). I'm not saying You're Wrong though, we're all just people posting on a messageboard about this, but as far as legal footwork goes this is miles ahead of the recent situation with Bayonetta.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2022 01:50
|
|
|
Oh yeah, of course, it's why I said Taylor came out all unhinged vs. Gordon with receipts. This'll be a fight, as opposed to some idiot grifter getting bodied in a weekend.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2022 01:55
|
|
|
2016 was way, way too slow and easy. Every time you got to a location where enemies were going to spawn there was a big windup, then the little guys start trickling in. You kill them and wait for the bigger guys, but there's only a few, and you don't have anything else to worry about and you can kill them tidily too. For all its bad decisions and dumbening down of fps fun, eternal made it hectic again.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2022 01:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 10:15 |
|
|
Just get the "speed on glory kill" rune in 2016. You'll be flying around the arena.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2022 01:58
|
|