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What is the most powerful flying bug? This poll is closed. |
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| 🦋 |
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15 | 3.71% |
| 🦇 |
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115 | 28.47% |
| 🪰 |
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12 | 2.97% |
| 🐦 |
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67 | 16.58% |
| dragonfly |
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94 | 23.27% |
| 🦟 |
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14 | 3.47% |
| 🐝 |
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87 | 21.53% |
| Total: | 404 votes | ||
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OctaMurk posted:i dont think this answers it and heres why, I'd guess the answer is that they're being invaded. Having an invading army destroying your country is a good way to get everyone aligned, at least temporarily. The invasion also vindicated the ugliest parts of Ukrainian nationalism, so the war serves as an ideological project to unite people and elevates the parts of the government most willing to fight to the end. Even then, millions of Ukrainians fled the country rather than fight, so they had to keep military-eligible men from leaving in order to maintain mobilization.
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Nov 9, 2022 21:40
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Azathoth posted:world isn't any more sympathetic, that's just the mask slipping. everyone has always been fine with nazis, it's just less gauche to talk about it now And it's now taken as a self evident truth that the USSR was as bad if not worse than the Nazis, and Eastern Europe will be run by jingoistic fascists for decades to come. Just excellent outcomes for everyone, great job Putin.
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Nov 9, 2022 21:41
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Danann posted:Oblast/region includes the big chunk east of the Dnieper; or it could be civilians and troops since the last count of Russian troops was ~40k. yeah makes sense - forgot for a second that Kherson could relate to both the city and the oblast Russian telegram is a combination of extreme doom (“we got backstabbed”) or parroting Shoigu about saving lives. ukranian telegram is a mix of extreme distrust and cautious celebration the gently caress is happening
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Nov 9, 2022 21:42
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euphronius posted:becuase one of the arguments was Russia didn’t really want to kill nazis because they are like the country that is say 10000 evil on a scale and if that country said something similar you would not believe that country. I don't think anyone here has made that argument. I think plenty of people have argued that throughout history, countries (particularly bourgeois republics like Russia or the U.S.) often come up with fake ideological justifications to cloak their far more materially-motivated behaviors. Russia's government doesn't have to be uniquely evil to have been full of poo poo about wanting to de-Nazify Ukraine; it just has to, you know. Be a bourgeois government.
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Nov 9, 2022 21:44
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  “There’s nothing can be done, the original bridge was blown you see”
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Nov 9, 2022 21:44
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Frosted Flake posted:Kherson had been occupied long enough for combat engineers to erect not just pontoons but honest to God concrete bridges. Admittedly, the river is pretty long in that area and it is coming under fire with a type of accuracy that didn’t exist in the 1940s. That replacement bridge would have been constantly hit. They were holding the area for a while under fire but the issue eventually amount damage that was occurring over time and eventually there wasn’t anything they could do. The question really if the Russians have a response beyond going after transformers and generators. It is perhaps why Iranian missiles are now such an issue since it could give the Russians a way to stay in the war. ———— Also, I would say states have interests beyond simply the class of those in charge. Geopolitical strategy exists in many ways beyond any ideological lens. The Soviet Union wasn’t simply guided by Marxist-Leninism when it was picking its battles, and present-day Russia isn’t guided just by short term material interests and neither is the US. There are very real limitations on the Russians though including a disconnect between the Kremlin and its general staff; the fact that the Russian military really wasn’t designed as an offensive force, as well sheer incompetence. However, it is a good question if a loss here is a good thing for the average Russian and the answer is in all honesty probably not. The US needs dominance to maintain its hegemony and Russia is clearly the easiest route to take. Russia didn’t just collapse as expected but at the time the sheer lack of capability of its military gives the US a clear opening. A ceasefire would give a reprieve not actual peace. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 21:57 on Nov 9, 2022 |
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Nov 9, 2022 21:45
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Frosted Flake posted:I know this is the popular line of reasoning among some of the left, particularly absent control of any institutions, but you need people in service to the state to believe in it. Consequently any national institution that requires duty, service and sacrifice requires belief and belonging and that is best grounded in the nation. Why fight under the colours? Because of what the colours represent. What if your piece of geography just didn't fight offensive wars? Then your soldiers could be motivated by defending their families and such. OctaMurk posted:being a nationalist in general is cringey . . . like lol ur proud of being randomly born on some piece of geography? wtf? Generally sure, but have you seen my piece of dirt?
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Nov 9, 2022 21:48
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Weka posted:Lol that Russia has waited for USA elections to announce this withdrawal. My hot take is they've had this in the works for a while but didn't want to give the Dems a win. I think you all are making too much of it tbh, all it means is that Odessa is off the table for at least the near future. If Russia wants a lasting peace they're not stopping until they have more of a buffer zone around Donetsk city.
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Nov 9, 2022 21:51
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dk2m posted:yeah makes sense - forgot for a second that Kherson could relate to both the city and the oblast Ukrainian victory in Kherson came at the cost of a mountain of bodies, lost equipment, and loss of electricity. Compared to Kharkov where it was dashing valor and strategy, winning Kherson was meatgrinding and in the end it was on Russian terms effectively. That said, the radicalization of Russian society is probably going to see Medvedev and company in power at this rate and attendant consequences.
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Nov 9, 2022 21:54
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stalin was a nazi
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Nov 9, 2022 21:54
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dk2m posted:the gently caress is happening Buddy, where've you've been these past 9 months?
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Nov 9, 2022 21:56
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If russia could master intermodal freight logistics they wouldn't be losing smdh
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Nov 9, 2022 21:57
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Hatebag posted:If russia could master intermodal freight logistics they wouldn't be losing smdh it comes down to trains
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Nov 9, 2022 21:57
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The train part of the bridge is still broken.
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Nov 9, 2022 21:59
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Azathoth posted:But what does that matter? If they're marginally less bad, they're still bad. If we could mathematically prove that Russia is only 75% as bad as the US and NATO, what does that mean practically? because maybe disingenuousness about killing nazis only kicks in a 8000 evil
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Nov 9, 2022 21:59
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Hatebag posted:If russia could master intermodal freight logistics they wouldn't be losing smdh I don’t think that is the issue in all honesty, most militaries operate in the same manner. Also, Russia knows containers exist. Also, at least one line of the Kerch bridge was operational, the status of the other one is unclear. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 22:02 on Nov 9, 2022 |
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Nov 9, 2022 21:59
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Ardennes posted:Admittedly, the river is pretty long in that area and it is coming under fire with a type of accuracy that didn’t exist at that point. They were holding the area for a while under fire but the issue eventually amount damage that was occurring over time and eventually there wasn’t anything they could do.  I’m going to say “no” because any response beyond transformers and generators will bear a cost, and I don’t know if it’s that neoliberal states’ legitimacy depends on not intruding on the public sphere or demanding, even reminding people of, sacrifices, but clearly there is a crisis here where timidity and prevarication rules the day. Which may be good over a longer term for socialism or something because there’s a fragility here that might someday prove useful. In all of these cases, there was a thing they could do, but it wasn’t something that would allow for business as usual. It’s easier for them to stomach the PR hit and military reversal without firing a shot than actually bear the blows. The horizon of what they can and can’t do has artificial limitations set by the leadership. In short, it’s a government led by Elphinstones. Which comes full circle to the causes and execution of the war. Cost-benefit analysis thinking and whatever perception management calculations, those are the results of a liberal society protecting, as others have pointed out, the interests of the ruling class. It’s the same flaw that led to half-asses covid measures, or the under-response to every other crisis we’ve seen. Just like public heath and control over a pandemic disease ran counter to the logic of neoliberalism, going to war does too - or rather going to war in any way other than expeditionary warfare that doesn’t create headlines. A mobilized society would have erected roadways and shored up a bridgehead, that’s very basic military logic, the Dnieper is one of the world’s best known and most studied pieces of military geography. That requires the commitment of significant numbers of sappers, and the cost of bridging equipment and lives to keep the lifeline open. This is a cost soldiers are willing to bear. Think of the French pontonniers at the Berezina! They cried out “Vive L'Empereur!“ with their dying breaths all through the day and night and saved an army.  It’s a cost politicians, at least here and now, are not. So, while checking Ukraine might have brought an end to the war, a full withdrawal might bring an end to the war, going on the offensive, any number of these things they won’t do, what they will do is just going to draw things out and lead to more hardship and misery. Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 22:05 on Nov 9, 2022 |
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Nov 9, 2022 22:00
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There are no participation trophies for war, Mr. Putin.
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Nov 9, 2022 22:02
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Majorian posted:I don't think anyone here has made that argument. page 59, twice you may disagree just citing my sources
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Nov 9, 2022 22:04
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euphronius posted:page 59, twice Quote the posts.
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Nov 9, 2022 22:08
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Zodium posted:the general theme of productive forces receding behind national boundaries is the consolidation of local power in the system by catabolism of absolute system power. as a whole, each directly involved capitalist polity has become weaker in absolute terms via destruction of capital and depletion of military forces. at the same time, the western bourgeoisie wins because ukraine's national assets and the ukrainian working class have been sold to finance the defense. the russian ruling class wins because it has nationalized industries and grown fat on energy crisis money. the ukrainian ruling class wins because they are gorging themselves on nato money and weapons. absolute losers are the larger system of Capital and the working classes writ large, the relative winners are the uninvolved. imo there are no absolute winners except China. Pretty much. Every party involved in the conflict will leave it weaker than they were before. The only light on the horizon is that it makes it easier for China to eventually roll over us like we deserve...
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Nov 9, 2022 22:08
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Ardennes posted:I don’t think that is the issue in all honesty, most militaries operate in the same manner. Also, Russia knows containers exist. Yeah I don't really think that's the problem. there's plenty of other routes freight could take to get to kherson, i think they know they can't hold it so they made an excuse
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Nov 9, 2022 22:13
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Dr Kool-AIDS posted:Remember how every time the US invaded a place to root out terrorism it led to a bunch more terrorism? That's Russia invading Ukraine to get rid of Nazis. Azathoth posted:
Very hard to do this on the mobile app but I did it for you
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Nov 9, 2022 22:14
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euphronius posted:Very hard to do this on the mobile app but I did it for you Neither of those posts is saying that Russia is "a country that is say 10000 evil on a scale" you dweeb.
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Nov 9, 2022 22:16
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Hatebag posted:Yeah I don't really think that's the problem. there's plenty of other routes freight could take to get to kherson, i think they know they can't hold it so they made an excuse If they could keep their supply lines going, they could have done a fighting withdrawal but in this case the bridges were the issue along with at least some of the ferries getting hit.
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Nov 9, 2022 22:17
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Alpha 1 posted:My takeaway from this debacle is that neoliberal austerity states are incapable of fighting full-scale industrial wars. It doesn't matter what resources they have on paper, because they don't have the capacity mobilize their societies for the fight or demand sacrifices from their people. As soon as Russia crossed the border, it was in the final battle to the death with NATO. Russia needed to mobilize in a way it hasn't mobilized since WW2, but these limitations forced it to fight the way America fought Iraq, with similar results.
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Nov 9, 2022 22:17
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Russia is a country that is say 10000 evil on a scale.
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Nov 9, 2022 22:17
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My argument is that it is not Putin's driving motivation to denazify Ukraine. He is indifferent to killing nazis, if it benefits him to do so he will, and if it benefits him to ally with them or otherwise leave them alive, he will do so. The idea that he is some driven anti-communist warrior is laughable on its face, and you have to be as credulous as the average Dem voter to believe his words and ignore his actions.
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Nov 9, 2022 22:18
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I think my reasoning is clear. it’s ok tho there are lots of opinions about war it’s very hard . you guys honestly persuaded me a bit and I don’t hold that position as much as I did
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Nov 9, 2022 22:18
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Majorian posted:Neither of those posts is saying that Russia is "a country that is say 10000 evil on a scale" you dweeb. I think his confusingly-worded post was saying that the posts were comparing Russia to a country that is say 10000 evil on a scale (i.e. USA)
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Nov 9, 2022 22:18
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Zodium posted:the general theme of productive forces receding behind national boundaries is the consolidation of local power in the system by catabolism of absolute system power. as a whole, each directly involved capitalist polity has become weaker in absolute terms via destruction of capital and depletion of military forces. at the same time, the western bourgeoisie wins because ukraine's national assets and the ukrainian working class have been sold to finance the defense. the russian ruling class wins because it has nationalized industries and grown fat on energy crisis money. the ukrainian ruling class wins because they are gorging themselves on nato money and weapons. absolute losers are the larger system of Capital and the working classes writ large, the relative winners are the uninvolved. imo there are no absolute winners except China. my only comment to this is that this war has kicked off the multipolar world where US hegemony has weakened considerably by showing how easy it is to have your foreign reserves confiscated and creating the conditions needed to have bilateral trade in local currencies, like the ruble/rupee. capital itself is being re-organized under different rules with different goals - from one of hegemony to something more like protected self interest it’s also shown that US sanctions, and therefore capital flows, cannot work on export rich, self-sufficient countries like Russia and has given countries like India influence by forcing the US to confront the limits of its economic power. forcing a country like Russia to develop internally by cutting it off from the world will, in the long term, strengthen it (assuming the whole thing doesn’t collapse, which could also happen) while Ukraine becomes a vassal state for the west
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Nov 9, 2022 22:19
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Azathoth posted:My argument is that it is not Putin's driving motivation to denazify Ukraine. He is indifferent to killing nazis, if it benefits him to do so he will, and if it benefits him to ally with them or otherwise leave them alive, he will do so. oh word
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Nov 9, 2022 22:20
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:I think his confusingly-worded post was saying that the posts were comparing Russia to a country that is say 10000 evil on a scale (i.e. USA) I mean that's fine and all, but it's extremely baby-brained to be viewing this as a "Russia is/isn't sufficiently evil to lie about their war aims" thing.
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Nov 9, 2022 22:20
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:I think his confusingly-worded post was saying that the posts were comparing Russia to a country that is say 10000 evil on a scale (i.e. USA) I went back and added a parenthetical for clarification 🙏
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Nov 9, 2022 22:21
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I know its hard out there for a tankie right now, you're losing and you're scared and defensive. But I promise you will not lose your online leftie credentials by acknowledging that authoritarian capitalism is worse than liberal capitalism
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Nov 9, 2022 22:21
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Azathoth posted:My argument is that it is not Putin's driving motivation to denazify Ukraine. He is indifferent to killing nazis, if it benefits him to do so he will, and if it benefits him to ally with them or otherwise leave them alive, he will do so. The idea that he is some driven anti-communist warrior is laughable on its face, and you have to be as credulous as the average Dem voter to believe his words and ignore his actions. Yeah I agree it isn’t the driving motivation here, it was an settle the brewing proxy war with the US. The denazification thing is accidental since the US has clearly been backing far-right groups who were more motivated to fight in the Donbas: That said, I do have to say Nazism is treated differently in both countries but I don’t know how far I can go along that line of thought.
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Nov 9, 2022 22:22
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Calibanibal posted:I know its hard out there for a tankie right now, you're losing and you're scared and defensive. But I promise you will not lose your online leftie credentials by acknowledging that authoritarian capitalism is worse than liberal capitalism My tankie pamps are poopy and there's no one to snoof them 
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Nov 9, 2022 22:22
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Frosted Flake posted:
fyi they did build a pontoon bridge, using grain barges. The Ukrainians kept blowing it up. https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1583404163870097410 https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1585373434824994818 https://twitter.com/auto_glam/status/1590446997622099968
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Nov 9, 2022 22:23
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Weka posted:Lol that Russia has waited for USA elections to announce this withdrawal. My hot take is they've had this in the works for a while but didn't want to give the Dems a win. I think you all are making too much of it tbh, all it means is that Odessa is off the table for at least the near future. If Russia wants a lasting peace they're not stopping until they have more of a buffer zone around Donetsk city. Do they? Doesn't the water supply flow from a dam near Kherson?
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Nov 9, 2022 22:23
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Al Saqr predicted this... and NONE of you listened
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Nov 9, 2022 22:25
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