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i fly airplanes
Sep 6, 2010


I STOLE A PIE FROM ESTELLE GETTY

ronya posted:

The most interesting element of this piece:

https://www.readingthechinadream.com/zhang-weiwei-on-color-revolutions.html

by Zhang Weiwei:

is that it doesn't mention capitalism at all; it is entirely about 西式民主 Western-style democracy being not adaptable to local conditions and prone to magnifying conflicts in a multicultural society:

The "Asian values" era has yet to leave us

Christ. Even Singapore gave up on that trope.

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ronya
Nov 8, 2010

I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.
Also interesting:

https://twitter.com/alexludoboyd/status/1585468548759035905

No translation, plug it into your favourite

i fly airplanes posted:

Christ. Even Singapore gave up on that trope.

on the political side, the collapse of New Order Indonesia and disorder in Malaysia, plus the non-collapse of democratizing South Korea and Taiwan rather put paid to the notion that the region was politically too immature for responsible civil society

on the economic side, there was Alwyn Young's charge of TFP stagnation (observe that China, also, has faced TFP stagnation since the GFC; the 2008-2013 stimulus and 2014+ withdrawal of said stimulus have not shifted this) plus the 1997 AFC which, despite rapid recoveries, settled the question of whether the region's governance was so foresighted as to be able to see off all challengers

China does not, of course, consider any of these countries as peers any longer

ronya fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Oct 27, 2022

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012

D-Pad posted:

That is wild and is absolutely something where coming down like a shitton of bricks is very appropriate. That should not even be remotely tolerated and requires severe consequences beyond "we deported everybody working there"

Is it weird that it makes me much angrier than busting a chinese spy ring? Like spying is expected and part of the game but this is outside the "rules", even though traditional spying probably causes much more damage than this. Maybe the difference in reaction is spying is against the nation as a whole while this is against individuals that are under the protection of the nation?

I think your reaction is sensible. Spying is within the unwritten rules of international relations; a system of secret police abroad using threats to effectively abduct and censor people extraterritorialy is not!

I’m actually struggling to think of an example of another country that does or even did this kind of thing systemically. Though maybe this isn’t a moral distinction so much as not a lot of countries having the opportunity.

Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Oct 27, 2022

ronya
Nov 8, 2010

I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.
It isn't secret, to be clear, and is borne out of earlier programmes to suppress wire fraud, money laundering, and organized crime conducted by expatriate Chinese nationals.

Like the CCDI back home, as petty corruption has declined, the political element of its mandate has grown in prominence

This essay shows the elegant but remarkably quick slippery slope:

quote:

Crime Affecting Chinese Citizens Overseas

Crime affecting Chinese citizens in neighboring countries is illustrated by the People’s Armed Police (PAP) joint armed patrols along the Mekong River. These patrols, which occur outside of China’s borders with police forces from Laos, Myanmar, and Thailand, have been underway since 2011. In March, these countries undertook the 115th joint Mekong River patrol involving 81 officers sailing over 680 kilometers, and including two Chinese law enforcement vessels from Yunnan Province (Ministry of Public Security, March 29). The deployment of PAP patrols has created a “pax sinica” on the Mekong River, which is important for PRC economic interests in neighboring countries (Asian Affairs, February 15, 2018).

The Mekong River is a vital geostrategic waterway for cross-border shipping as it runs through China, Myanmar, Laos, and Thailand, but the area suffers from significant crime including drug smuggling, arms trafficking, and piracy. In October 2011, the discovery of two deserted Chinese cargo ships carrying 920,000 amphetamine pills and the murder of 13 Chinese crew members triggered greater action by the PRC authorities. The culprit for these acts of murder and piracy was “Naw Kham,” an ethnic Burmese former officer in the Mong Tai Army of the late warlord Khun Sa, and his 60 to 100 gunmen known as the “Hawngleuk militia” based in eastern Shan State. The group patrolled the Mekong on speedboats trafficking drugs, and committing robbery, kidnapping, and murder without being interdicted by Myanmar, Laos, and Thailand authorities (The Irrawaddy, October 13, 2011).

Authorities targeted Naw Kham and his gang with Chinese and Lao police officers raiding locations in Laos, leading to his arrest in April 2012 (The Irrawaddy, May 11, 2012). Following his arrest, Naw Kham and his associates were sent to China and tried in Kunming, where they were convicted of the murder of the 13 Chinese sailors on the Mekong River, which highlighted the influence of Chinese authorities vis-à-vis its neighbors. In March 2013, Naw Kham and his colleagues were executed in Kunming by lethal injection, showing that the reach of PRC law enforcement is not only long, but also deadly (China Daily, March 1, 2013).

Overseas Crime Targeting Chinese Citizens in the PRC

In recent years, Chinese organized crime groups have exploited the PRC’s international economic expansion to increase their overseas presence (China Brief, March 25). This has driven PRC law enforcement agencies to pursue Chinese criminals in other jurisdictions. Key areas of this transnational organized crime include gambling and fraud targeting PRC citizens inside China. In April, authorities reported that in the past year they have destroyed 2,500 gambling platforms and over 1,900 illegal payment platforms and underground banks. These included criminal groups with revenue of over 1.6 billion yuan ($251 million) in Jilin and Heilongjiang Provinces, and 15 billion yuan ($2.3 billion) in Chongqing, Sichuan Province (Ministry of Public Security, April 1, 2022).

Over the past decade, the PRC has also been plagued by telecommunications and cyber fraud, perpetrated by Chinese gangs operating across Asia. Six of the ten alleged masterminds of telecom and cyber fraud who established bases in the Philippines, Cambodia, and Myanmar, allegedly recruited gang members from the PRC to solicit people in China for fraudulent investments and gambling (Ministry of Public Security, October 24, 2020). For China, the extent of economic loss from telecommunications fraud is huge, reportedly amounting to 35.37 billion yuan ($5.5 billion) in 2020 (Ministry of Public Security, June 22, 2021).

Law enforcement action against Chinese criminals overseas does not even have to involve leaving the country. The Public Security Bureau (PSB) in multiple provinces reportedly threatened fugitives in Myanmar that they would suspend pensions and medical coverage of their relatives in the PRC if they did not voluntarily return home to face trial (Reuters, June 2021).

Corruption – “Fox Hunt” and “Sky Net”

The PRC’s huge economic growth over the past two decades has resulted in systematic corruption and a large number of fugitives from justice. At the onset of General Secretary Xi Jinping’s tenure (2012-), the Ministry of Public Security launched “Fox Hunt” (猎狐,lie hu) for Chinese fugitives wanted for corruption. The driver of the “Fox Hunt” operations was the huge number of fugitive officials facing corruption charges as a result of Xi’s anti-corruption campaign. From 2012-2014, around 18,000 officials reportedly fled overseas taking over 800 billion yuan ($125 billion) with them, largely to Asia Pacific countries with large Chinese communities (China Daily, November 12, 2014).

Launched in 2015, “Sky Net” (天网,tian wang) involved a division of labor among multiple agencies. The State Supervisory Commission led the international pursuit of fugitives and stolen goods for duty-related crimes. The Ministry of Public Security carried out the “Fox Hunting” special operation to track down officials in hiding abroad. The People’s Bank of China, together with the Ministry of Public Security, worked to target offshore companies and underground banks that transfer illicit money overseas. Finally, the Supreme People’s Court and the Supreme People’s Procuratorate undertook judicial action against those apprehended for crimes (Central Commission for Discipline Inspection, March 3).

Both “Fox Hunt” and “Sky Net” are problematic for several reasons. First, the conviction rate for criminal charges in the PRC is reported to be 99.9 percent and only 30 percent of defendants are represented by lawyers, indicating insufficient legal protections for individuals and no presumption of innocence until proven guilty. The presumption of guilt is even greater in cases concerning politics, for instance, trials of dissidents. Countries with a system that provides legal rights for all individuals have great difficulty extraditing suspects to the PRC. This leads to the second problem, which is that many of the fugitives wanted by the PRC authorities may also be subject to politically-related arrest.

By 2015, the PRC had signed extradition treaties with 39 countries, judicial assistance treaties with 52 countries, and agreements for cooperation with 91 countries. In addition, the PRC had entered police cooperation with 189 countries and sent 62 police liaison officers to 36 Chinese embassies in 31 countries (China Daily, March 20, 2015). However, some countries where fugitives may have fled have either avoided signing extradition agreements with the PRC or have rescinded them following the introduction of the National Security Law to Hong Kong in 2020. These include Australia, Canada, Germany, Finland, Ireland, the Netherlands, the UK, and the United States.

The lack of formal extradition arrangements with so many countries has forced the PRC authorities to use alternative means to apprehend fugitives. “Persuasion” has become a common tactic, which human rights groups have called “involuntary returns.” Such returns are achieved by threats against family members in the PRC, directly approaching and intimidating the fugitive overseas, or outright kidnapping (Safeguard Defenders, January 18). Involuntary returns of Chinese nationals to the PRC comprise a mix of genuine criminal fugitives, officials who have fallen out of favor with the CCP leadership, and others pursued for their religious or political beliefs. The latter includes Falun Gong practitioners, Uyghurs from Xinjiang, Tibetans, and more recently, protesters from Hong Kong. The resultant lack of clarity regarding which cases relate to genuine criminality is worsened by the involvement of multiple PRC government agencies.

In January 2017, Chinese billionaire Xiao Jianhua, founder of the Tomorrow Group, was taken by a group of people from the Four Seasons Hotel in Hong Kong and has not been seen in public since (South China Morning Post (SCMP), January 31, 2017). There were multiple unconfirmed reports that Xiao may have been abducted by Ministry of State Security officers, possibly because of his close financial connections to senior PRC leaders. Similar concerns were raised in late 2015, when five Hong Kong booksellers linked to the Hong Kong publisher Mighty House, known for selling books critical of China’s leaders, disappeared and were later found to have been held by PRC authorities. All five later appeared in Mainland China and were reported as being under investigation for illegally delivering banned books to customers across the border. Swedish national Gui Minhai, the owner of the publishing house, was sentenced to 10 years imprisonment for “illegally providing intelligence to overseas entities.” One of the imprisoned booksellers later claimed that his confession was coerced (SCMP, June 21, 2020).

You can see how a global security agenda that started as muscular measures, supported by host governments in organizationally weak countries, slid into itself becoming an illicit enforcement bureaucracy that holds the inability or unwillingness of host governments to cooperate in putting down anti-China actions - be it crime or political dissidence - in open contempt

i fly airplanes
Sep 6, 2010


I STOLE A PIE FROM ESTELLE GETTY

ronya posted:

on the political side, the collapse of New Order Indonesia and disorder in Malaysia, plus the non-collapse of democratizing South Korea and Taiwan rather put paid to the notion that the region was politically too immature for responsible civil society

on the economic side, there was Alwyn Young's charge of TFP stagnation (observe that China, also, has faced TFP stagnation since the GFC; the 2008-2013 stimulus and 2014+ withdrawal of said stimulus have not shifted this) plus the 1997 AFC which, despite rapid recoveries, settled the question of whether the region's governance was so foresighted as to be able to see off all challengers

China does not, of course, consider any of these countries as peers any longer

What came to mind for me on "Asian values" was Lee Kuan Yew of Singapore trying to make this as part of his ASEAN leadership.

Rightfully criticized to be hollow as a concept, as it was used there to trample over gay rights—which only now has been decriminalized this year.

Contrasted of course to Taiwan, which fully legalized same-sex marriage and continues to be the only country in Asia where it's legal. This topic in particular highlights how superfluous the ideology is in regarding that human rights are not universal.

i fly airplanes fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Oct 27, 2022

ronya
Nov 8, 2010

I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.
Young's critique was indeed on Singapore specifically

To be clear, back in the 1990s, an observer would have pointed out that South Korea had used their first democratic elections to elect Roh Tae-Woo, ally of the previous dictatorship, and then Kim Young-Sam, who had merged his party into Roh's. Kim Dae-Jung, who famously criticized 'Asian Values' in the FP, would not win until 1998 when the AFC was in full swing and its conceptual star was already in decline. Likewise Taiwan's first democratic elections elected Chiang's own VP Lee Teng-Hui, rather than someone from the opposition. With n=2, it seemed apparent that East Asian voters, newly empowered with democratic powers, would (unlike the Eastern European revolutions) elect people and governments pretty darned closely linked with their previous regimes

ronya fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Oct 27, 2022

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Silver2195 posted:

I think your reaction is sensible. Spying is within the unwritten rules of international relations; a system of secret police abroad using threats to effectively abduct and censor people extraterritorialy is not!

I’m actually struggling to think of an example of another country that does or even did this kind of thing systemically. Though maybe this isn’t a moral distinction so much as not a lot of countries having the opportunity.

Isn't this partially because a load of people were scamming Chinese folks and, when China put out a load of red notices to get them caught by interpol they were accused of "abusing the system" and so they've essentially set up a parallel system?

https://www.dw.com/en/netherlands-probes-illegal-chinese-police-stations/a-63561509

https://www.pcmag.com/news/chinese-embassy-robocall-scam-rakes-in-40m-from-victims

This sort of thing? Am I wrong on this?

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

Neither of those stories has any details about Interpol supposedly spurning China's attempts to report fraud, and while I know there's a problem with phone scams out there, the quoted number of 230,000 people seems like...a lot.

And that's on top of natural misgivings about the policing policies of an authoritarian government with a long record of suppressing dissidents and an active genocide. Hard to believe their attempts at a "parallel system" would be any more observant of human rights than back home.

This SafeGuard Defenders group seems to crop up a few times in news stories over this issue, which might be looking into for those interested.

SafeGuard Defenders posted:

The story behind Safeguard Defenders goes back to 2009, the year when a small NGO called China Action was founded in Beijing by human rights activists Peter Dahlin from Sweden and Michael Caster from the U.S. and a small group of Chinese rights lawyers and other human rights defenders (HRD).

Its mission was to support China’s fledging lawyer community. It ran trainings and capacity building projects as well as provided direct support for legal interventions and other assistance to HRDs at risk.

It also established a string of legal aid centres across China, working with, and specializing in supporting, China’s frontline legal defenders, also called ‘barefoot’ or ‘citizen’ lawyers. These stations offered pro-bono legal aid in China’s smaller cities and to local communities. Cases often concerned the rampant abuse and violation of laws by local police and government.

China Action was shuttered in 2016 after Chinese authorities targeted it in a major crackdown and when many of its staff and partners were detained, disappeared or imprisoned, including Peter.

...

The foundation for Safeguard Defenders was laid in 2016, and was publicly launched in 2017. The organisation has inherited the mission of China Action, but with an expanded scope to support the survival and effectiveness of civil society and HRDs in some of Asia's most hostile environments, including China.

ronya
Nov 8, 2010

I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.
the red notice controversy was when HRW began pushing back at high-profile red notices in ~2017: https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/09/25/interpol-address-chinas-red-notice-abuses

the creation of the "involuntary returns" programmes is earlier, however, dating to ~2014

Turds in magma
Sep 17, 2007
can i get a transform out of here?

ronya posted:

the red notice controversy was when HRW began pushing back at high-profile red notices in ~2017: https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/09/25/interpol-address-chinas-red-notice-abuses

the creation of the "involuntary returns" programmes is earlier, however, dating to ~2014

Was there any consensus on Meng Hongwei's corruption charges? Like it seems reasonably obvious that these were trumped up because he wasn't marching in line, but was he also actually taking bribes? I imagine the answer is we will never know...

ronya
Nov 8, 2010

I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.
Given the decade in which he rose in the ranks, it would surprise me if he wasn't corrupt, but the fact that he was disappeared despite the obvious embarrassment of disappearing such a high-profile figure suggests power politics instead of a normal arrest

It might not be deeper than noting the widespread purge of the public security bureaus (of which Meng Hongwei was merely one head to roll) and replacement with Xi's faction allies: https://www.iris-france.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Asia-Focus-139.pdf

Turds in magma
Sep 17, 2007
can i get a transform out of here?

ronya posted:

Given the decade in which he rose in the ranks, it would surprise me if he wasn't corrupt, but the fact that he was disappeared despite the obvious embarrassment of disappearing such a high-profile figure suggests power politics instead of a normal arrest

It might not be deeper than noting the widespread purge of the public security bureaus (of which Meng Hongwei was merely one head to roll) and replacement with Xi's faction allies: https://www.iris-france.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Asia-Focus-139.pdf

Thanks, that's a good article.

ronya
Nov 8, 2010

I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.
Topically:

https://twitter.com/lingli_vienna/status/1586245134550986752

ronya
Nov 8, 2010

I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.
back to the 1990s

https://twitter.com/alexludoboyd/status/1586737890930954240

https://twitter.com/HAOHONG_CFA/status/1586557653345456128

https://twitter.com/michaelxpettis/status/1586715345188184064

https://twitter.com/adam_tooze/status/1586686498988081152

earlier news:

https://www.scmp.com/tech/tech-tren...mpus-restricted
https://www.scmp.com/tech/tech-tren...19-restrictions

the meta-news is that the variant is managing to punch through the "production bubble" which was initially imposed, hence the rapidly escalating measures, leading to the backlash and exodus, leading to cities now flipping out about having to isolate a wave of migrant returnees

quote:

A Foxconn employee, who declined to be named, said that the factory was not doing enough to separate the positive cases in a timely manner. “I just want to work. I don’t want to be infected because there will be trouble for me to find a new job in the future,” the person said in a message on Douyin when reached by the Post.

The conversation was cut short when the person said she received a notice from her manager that she had received a positive Covid test result. She declined to answer further questions after getting the news.

the immediate response I expect is reactive measures to indeed tighten isolation, improve conditions, and also oblige cities to accept and isolate returnees -- but none of these will be funded. Foxconn can probably manage. Less solvent factories, however, may just close temporarily.

On the Covid policy note, Bloomberg published a succinct coverage of a variety of predictions: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-27/experts-pessimistic-on-china-exiting-covid-zero-any-time-soon. I am still leaning toward this year rather than next, although as the article points out this is not the consensus. My own reasoning stems from intra-Sinosphere opinion from Singapore and Taiwan opening up (on Nov 7 Taiwan will end building entry temperature check requirements, and isolation requirements for close contacts), plus budgetary pressures on the mainland side.

ronya fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Oct 30, 2022

A big flaming stink
Apr 26, 2010
This is making the rounds on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/YanzhongHuang/status/1586537964267798530

Can't understand that points he's making obviously, but I just think it's funny how the consultancy grift attaches to literally any popular policy consensus

ronya
Nov 8, 2010

I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.
CDT transcript:

https://chinadigitaltimes.net/chinese/689067.html

quote:


现在很多人在争论中国的动态清零政策,说我们的政策有问题,导致我们的生意不好做。

错!你的格局太小,观点太低。

美国才3.3亿人口,我们以美国为例,美国9000多万的人感染了新冠病毒。美国国会报告显示,美国这9000多万的新冠病毒患者中,已经有1400万有明显的后遗症。有200-400万的人已经丧失了劳动力。

大家知道这意味着什么吗?想象一下,如果疫情再延期个5年,疫情再延期个10年,假设。意味着西方躺平政策下的西方世界的劳动力就会荡然无存。听懂了吗各位?没有人了!

所以各位,我们一定要什么?动态清零!

我只能说,足够愚昧才会躺平。现在我们一定不能躺平。我们一定要坚持什么?动态清零!听懂了我的话了吗?要让西方去躺平。因为疫情有严重的后遗症各位。所以我们是一定不能够躺平的。

作为一个普通的消费者,作为一个普通的国民,我们不要妄议国政。

体制内的人比我们聪明的多,比我们高级的多。

你根本没有那么大的画面,你根本没有那么大的胸怀。你也根本没有那么大的格局,你看不到那么多的山山水水。

所以,不要妄议国政。听话照做就好了,我们就赢了。

如果疫情再过十年,都不用我们打,全世界都趴下了。

to my knowledge, this is not the policy consensus as represented in e.g. NHC or party statements, which do not invoke the spectre of 长新冠 (long covid) - but Xinhua and such are happy to cover discussion on long covid in the West

droll
Jan 9, 2020

by Azathoth

A big flaming stink posted:

Can't understand that points he's making obviously, but I just think it's funny how the consultancy grift attaches to literally any popular policy consensus

Sorry am not following you. Can you please elaborate?

A big flaming stink
Apr 26, 2010

droll posted:

Sorry am not following you. Can you please elaborate?

the corporate TEDtalk style grift, where consultants are paid staggering sums of money to tell powerful people that what those people believe is Cool and Good. It's funny that this grift will attach itself to any policy whatsoever, even a nominally Big Communist Government one.

A big flaming stink fucked around with this message at 11:53 on Oct 31, 2022

Rabelais D
Dec 11, 2012

ts'u nnu k'u k'o t'khye:
A demon doth defecate at thy door
Lol at "the people in government are much smarter and much better than us"

ronya
Nov 8, 2010

I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.
Shanghai Disney Resort has locked down again trapping visitors in the park due to coronavirus cases detected, similar to the incident during Halloween last year.

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/disney-closes-shanghai-resort-oct-31-due-covid-curbs-2022-10-31/

The number of people trapped is lower this time, perhaps due to the reduced capacity curbs announced a couple days earlier.

There's quite a thicket of reports trickling out as Chinese cities launch a new wave of lockdowns in response to daily cases rising again (you can look at handy table here, constructed from NHC daily briefings: https://www.china-briefing.com/news/china-coronavirus-updates-latest-developments-business-advisory-part-2/#table)

https://twitter.com/hancocktom/status/1587059233241108481

Whilst the lockdowns do work in eventually controlling cases, they do have to be harsh and costly (the latter being probably the real problem as to why Xinjiang and Tibet are struggling so hard to stamp out local transmission)

ronya fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Oct 31, 2022

ronya
Nov 8, 2010

I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.
In rumours:

https://twitter.com/HAOHONG_CFA/status/1587288972761640960

Might be nothing, let's see

https://twitter.com/ftchina/status/1587321974820331521

(some products, mainly in healthcare and education - note many countries do ban celebrity endorsements of healthcare products. This is yet another instance of where the rhetoric exceeds the specific regulatory goals, which are actually relatively mundane)

https://twitter.com/EliDFriedman/status/1587197311154884608

ronya fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Nov 1, 2022

ronya
Nov 8, 2010

I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.
It hit Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/china-hk-stocks-rebound-sharply-unverified-social-media-posts-over-covid-easing-2022-11-01/

https://twitter.com/hankinbeijing/status/1587380200458792960

https://twitter.com/hankinbeijing/status/1587374617542287360

ronya fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Nov 1, 2022

ronya
Nov 8, 2010

I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.
More in rumours:

https://twitter.com/business/status/1587801731148259331

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

One Day I Will Return To Your Side.
The Chinese have successfully finished their space station, a genuinely huge milestone for Chinese science and tech:-

https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1587409399521239046?s=20&t=hRQ3faFCrRBPy7aP1NY0ZA

Dante80
Mar 23, 2015
Probation
Can't post for 3 hours!
With Mengtian docking successfully and completing Tiangong, here is a cool animation video showing all the major features of the lab module.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCU57qQ3Sxg

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

A video on China's electricity issues (and why they just can't get around to quitting coal)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBp_NgrrtPM

GoutPatrol
Oct 17, 2009

*Stupid Babby*

Please remember to add more context to the articles and videos that you are posting in this thread.

I currently live pretty close to one of the largest coal plants in the world, , and guess what it sucks. If you've got coal and it's cheap, you use it.

The air quality conversation in Taiwan for the most part sucks as well, which is related to the North/South political divide. Taipei, partially due to its geography and climate (it rains alot more in winter) has much better air quality than the rest of the Western Plain. The remaining heavy industry is further South, so the worst air quality is found in Kaohsiung. So there is the feeling that Taipei won't push for more air quality controls for the rest of the country because it doesn't matter for them, when it is only relatively good, not actually good. And too many Taiwanese industries blame all the air pollution coming from China and try to block changes to get them to pollute less. Granted, alot of the air pollution is from China, but it ain't all. Things could be made better.

When I have time I could try to do a write up for the local elections happening at the end of the month.

ronya
Nov 8, 2010

I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.

ronya posted:

In other news, multipolarity:

https://twitter.com/lingli_vienna/status/1580984401466310656

Scholz is visiting in two weeks. This is the flavour of the coverage: https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202210/1277029.shtml

Xi-Scholz coverage:



https://twitter.com/rbsw/status/1588461140509876224

(that remark on sanctions on EU lawmakers refers to Chinese retaliation on Lithuania for Taiwan)

https://twitter.com/rbsw/status/1588464153160994816

Li's remarks seem especially conciliatory, I feel - unless the minutes don't touch on them, Li did not recap Xi's allusions to a third party (i.e., the US) influencing EU-China relations whilst Scholz gets all his per diem in. Then again, Scholz is saying these things to the lame duck premier, not the triumphant re-appointed general secretary

Meanwhile, in rumoursville:

https://twitter.com/niubi/status/1588472372469825539

Zeng had already stuck his neck out already in Mar 1 last year, and then Shanghai promptly melted down, recall:

https://twitter.com/yangliuxh/status/1498378205400420352

But:

https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1588452270663995395

ronya
Nov 8, 2010

I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.
Not really news, but I like the art:

https://twitter.com/stephendziedzic/status/1588354161464471552

ronya
Nov 8, 2010

I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.
This seems needlessly provocative

https://twitter.com/theChinaDude/status/1588802047142690817

In rumoursville:

https://twitter.com/ReutersWorld/status/1588826001198522368

http://health.people.com.cn/n1/2022/1105/c14739-32559532.html

Looks like 清零总方针不动摇 "dynamic clearing strategy will not be altered" is the message, contra rumours earlier this week; we will see market reactions on Monday. The return of 九不准 (nine nos) from June is as much as conceded; how this interacts with the reopening of flights remains to be explained

edit: a bigger list, I only picked up on the nine nos:

https://twitter.com/ShanghaiMacro/status/1588874239805095937

as the tweeter notes, it remains to be seen whether the bias toward prosecuting officials for outbreaks but not for overreach moves toward the opposite

ronya fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Nov 5, 2022

ronya
Nov 8, 2010

I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.
https://twitter.com/troysalts/status/1589910323263569921

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/guangzhous-covid-outbreak-deepens-more-lockdowns-loom-china-2022-11-08/

the bulk of cases are in Guangzhou, but not all are, so the graph somewhat overstates the trend line

ronya
Nov 8, 2010

I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.
Presented without comment:

https://twitter.com/violazhouyi/status/1590274958420475905

The Guangzhou situation continues:

https://twitter.com/hong_ijin/status/1590199378605903872

Tomn
Aug 23, 2007

And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands

This might be a bit flippant, but it'd be pretty funny if people who were banned on SA not only had to pay out money to rereg, but also had to submit handwritten letters of contrition explaining what they did wrong. I'm not the only one thinking this, am I?

ronya
Nov 8, 2010

I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.
To be clear, I find it more amusing than anything else. It's a thoroughly impractical way for a company with such a massive role in Chinese daily life to conduct moderation

Not terribly long ago there was a wave of intellectuals who gushed about hansei...

all very well for Tencent to render explicit that it expects its users to be petitioners and supplicants rather than customers, but the flip side of the coin is high expectations on Tencent

In other news, victory laps:

https://twitter.com/HAOHONG_CFA/status/1590825443439308801
https://twitter.com/HAOHONG_CFA/status/1590971452651900928

My own sense is that we first need to see if in this ongoing wave, officials are punished for excessive restrictions rather than for outbreaks. We have heard the 一刀切/层层加码 "no one-size-fits-all" policy swerves before, and whilst this did sharply cut back on gross impacts on supply chains this did not translate much further.

I still think this year rather than next, but this alone is suggestive but is not yet it

English-language coverage: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-11/these-are-the-20-measures-guiding-china-s-covid-easing-efforts

quote:

China is relying on 20 key parameters to guide officials on the ground as it eases the contentious Covid Zero policy.
Released on Friday, the measures detail what officials should be doing on everything from quarantine to testing, representing a sweeping pullback of the country’s punishing pandemic playbook.
The 20 are:

Cut isolation for close contacts to five days at a central facility and three days at home, down from 7+3;
No longer identify the close contacts of close contacts;
People leaving high-risk areas must spend seven days at home, rather than at a centralized quarantine facility;
Remove the “medium” risk category; only homes, workplaces and areas often frequented by someone infected will be deemed high-risk; all other areas are low-risk; high risk areas should mostly be confined to residential units or blocks, and cannot be extended at will;
Workers in high-risk positions exiting closed-loop operations must spend five days at home, down from seven days at home or in a centralized isolation facility;
Remove mass testing in most areas, with citywide tests given only when the source of infection is unknown;
Scrap circuit breaker bans for incoming flights and reduce pre-flight PCR testing to one from two;
Allow closed-loop systems to ease rules for business executives and sports stars;
Set cycle threshold values at less than 35 to diagnose Covid in new arrivals;
Cut quarantine for new arrivals to five days in a hotel and three at home, down from the previous 7+3;
Increase health care resources, including hospital beds;
Promote vaccine usage, especially booster shots for the elderly;
Stockpile medicine and equipment to treat Covid;
Determine the size of the population still at risk for Covid;
React quickly to outbreaks to reduce size and duration needed for pandemic control;
Halt excessive anti-Covid measures imposed by local governments;
Provide adequate supplies and necessary medical care for people in quarantine;
Improve pandemic control measures on school campuses;
Implement pandemic control measures in industrial parks to ensure smooth supply chain operations;
Arrange orderly departures for people who are stranded during lockdowns.

ronya fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Nov 11, 2022

ronya
Nov 8, 2010

I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.
e: whoops. quote is not edit

Thorn Wishes Talon
Oct 18, 2014

by Fluffdaddy
https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1590949038186467328

Looks like China's Covid lockdown nightmares may be coming to an end, as some of us predicted would happen after Xi got confirmed for a third term.

ronya
Nov 8, 2010

I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.
A remarkable thread:

https://twitter.com/ZichenWanghere/status/1591100106459471872

As before:

https://twitter.com/ZichenWanghere/status/1591100116810989569

ronya
Nov 8, 2010

I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.
https://twitter.com/michaelxpettis/status/1592009265509961728

as with Japan, the East Asian 'tiger' states, and the original set of Southeast Asian Newly Industrialized Countries (NICs), the attraction of the export-oriented economy is hard to shake

yes it involved wage repression and subordination of foreign policy to the economic need to access target markets (e.g. Japan having to subordinate a desire for lucrative detente with the Soviet bloc to a need to access the US consumer market...), but it also brings full employment! And navigating this was challenging for liberal democratic systems like Japan and West Germany, never mind authoritarian systems that build their credibility, deserved or not, on economic competence. Especially for countries with regions struggling with underinvestment, full employment is a kind of domestic redistributive policy in itself

this is a point Pettis neglects in his Trade Wars are Class Wars elaboration - that it is an easy option out of what can be a challenging political question that is inherently generated by the uneven impacts of rapid growth, as demanded by poorer regions and not necessarily elites. China must pursue full employment because less than full employment will necessarily impact Anhui (a markedly poorer province) more than it impacts Shanghai (an overheating one). Overheating is the easiest mechanism that the country has for forcing a rich and powerful - powerful because it is now rich - regions to subsidize less rich regions

all that said, Pettis is responding to remarks made by the outgoing officials, not the incoming ones; it remains to be seen if the new generation has a different outlook. Nationalism may trump willingness to cringe before desired target markets.

ronya fucked around with this message at 07:09 on Nov 14, 2022

ronya
Nov 8, 2010

I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.
On that note:

https://twitter.com/lingli_vienna/status/1592168797091565569

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Barrel Cactaur
Oct 6, 2021

Politely asking to do imperialism, as a treat. Frankly, saying no seems to be the right answer as a costly war and occupation would make their problems with economic structures worse.

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