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The thing is that's kind of what the book is like, too. One of the things I like about Gibson as a writer is that he doesn't make the book *about* the Jackpot and its consequences, exactly. He's imagined this world built around the Jackpot and the use of stubs and writes a story about characters trying to survive in it, through which the reader learns about the wider world and its implications. The messaging about capitalism is definitely there - the whole plot in the future that Flynne gets entangled with is that certain rich people have decided that the massive garbage patch in the Pacific has real estate value and are trying to steal it from the people who live there - but you kind of encounter it while hoping Flynne and her friends can figure poo poo out.
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Nov 5, 2022 14:41
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Yeah, I think some of the critiques have been aimed at the nature of Gibson's storytelling style, which drops context clues and hints which leave lots of room for the reader (viewer in this case) to fill in the gaps of the surrounding world. Personally, I have always enjoyed that "hand wavy" feel because if we're being honest it's how many elements of our current world could be described, when focusing more on people moving through it. So far I am really enjoying the show. Unless they really fumble the last few episodes I am definitively calling this the best William Gibson adaptation so far.
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Nov 5, 2022 15:04
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I'm enjoying this show but now I've realised Wilf's actor is Liam from ME: Andromeda, I instinctively want to punch the screen every time he appears. Future rich dude's little speech about his existential crisis and how he dealt with it in the latest ep was some proper  poo poo.
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Nov 8, 2022 01:59
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I'm not sure how I feel about the show so far. One of the things I like about Gibson's books is that you're figuring stuff out yourself, sort of, since he's so spare about everything. It's not like the books are puzzles; nothing is hidden or obscured and you're not really supposed to be trying to solve anything per se. But it's definitely a process of putting the pieces together and finding meaning from the resulting whole, rather than having things spoon-fed to you. Meanwhile this show is definitely spoon-feeding like most TV these days. (Any TV show with a "Previously On..." section at the beginning is designed for people who spend half episode on their phones and the other half in a coma. gently caress that poo poo!) It's funny because one of Nolan and Joy's other shows, Westworld, had a season (S2) where it absolutely asked you to put a bunch of pieces together if you wanted to know what the gently caress was going on. Part of that was because they unnecessarily made it into a kind of mystery but part of that was also that they gave you important information in scenes without beating you over the head with what that information was, how it related to the other information you already had, etc. It treated the viewer like someone paying attention and interested in the show, not like a zombie. This show, meanwhile, has people giving monologues with metaphorical toast and so on to explain relatively straightforward stuff, just so that everyone can be on the same page without a moment's confusion or without having to exercise their brains. Not a fan! On the other hand, the actors are nice, the production design is kind of neat, and in typical William Gibson fashion, he's given us a timely story about pandemics and climate change and so on bringing the world to an end right as it turns out that this is what's going on in real life, so it's interesting I guess to have a show meditating on that sort of thing. Maybe I'll watch Station Eleven - I haven't seen that yet and I hear it's about the same sort of thing. And I guess it's fun to see other people approach this material: so far I don't actively dislike any of the changes or additions (although I miss some of the subtractions, like Pacific people.)
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Nov 8, 2022 13:02
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TychoCelchuuu posted:Any TV show with a "Previously On..." section at the beginning is designed for people who spend half episode on their phones and the other half in a coma. lol what? Hard no. Previouslies are for serialised shows that air week to week. They remind audiences of information from weeks, months, seasons ago. They're a useful tool, not some sort of compensation escapism for phones (and predate the phone, anyway). They can also be genuinely great pieces of editing when they want to be. Previouslies rock. All shows should have then on basically any relevant episode.
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Nov 8, 2022 14:04
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TychoCelchuuu posted:It's funny because one of Nolan and Joy's other shows, Westworld, had a season (S2) where it absolutely asked you to put a bunch of pieces together if you wanted to know what the gently caress was going on. Every episode of West World aside from S1E1 had a "previously on".
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Nov 8, 2022 14:26
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PeterWeller posted:Every episode of West World aside from S1E1 had a "previously on".
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Nov 8, 2022 15:20
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Why are the peripheral bodies programmed to feel pain and have organs?
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Nov 9, 2022 05:27
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“Previously On…” posted:Remember this character? Expect to see them again in this episode. God I fuckin hate previouslies. Odoyle fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Nov 9, 2022 |
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Nov 9, 2022 07:14
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TychoCelchuuu posted:I'm not sure how I feel about the show so far. One of the things I like about Gibson's books is that you're figuring stuff out yourself, sort of, since he's so spare about everything. It's not like the books are puzzles; nothing is hidden or obscured and you're not really supposed to be trying to solve anything per se. But it's definitely a process of putting the pieces together and finding meaning from the resulting whole, rather than having things spoon-fed to you. Meanwhile this show is definitely spoon-feeding like most TV these days. (Any TV show with a "Previously On..." section at the beginning is designed for people who spend half episode on their phones and the other half in a coma. gently caress that poo poo!)
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Nov 9, 2022 14:35
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Im a sucker for near future stuff, and have not read the book. The set design, acting and story are really rad and the slow pace is a-ok by me. The dialogue is miles and miles above recent prestige outings (lotr, season 4 of westworld). I think it’s great so far.
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Nov 10, 2022 04:59
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I've been avoiding watching it so I don't get annoyed lol
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Nov 10, 2022 05:09
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precision posted:I've been avoiding watching it so I don't get annoyed lol all the lev wanting to be the only lev stuff sounds like utter bullshit and when are we getting to lowbeer, anyway
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Nov 10, 2022 07:26
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boar guy posted:all the lev wanting to be the only lev stuff sounds like utter bullshit and when are we getting to lowbeer, anyway
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Nov 10, 2022 09:07
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TychoCelchuuu posted:That's a change from the books, right? I enjoyed it. It seems like exactly the sort of thing someone might desire, and Lev is the sort of person who would do that to achieve it in addition to merely wanting it. Yeah, it's not part of the books. And also yeah, I can totally see a Russian mobster wanting to eliminate any potential competition like that. Ersatz posted:The Peripheral is an entertaining but disappointing take on good source material. Station Eleven elevated good source material into what is easily one of the best shows in years. For similar themes done very well, Dark is also solid. I don't know if I would call it disappointing because it's not as good an adaptation as Station Eleven. Rarely do we get an adaptation that elevates the source material as well as Station Eleven did. Maybe the Expanse. Maybe Thrones at its seasons 3-5 peak.
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Nov 10, 2022 15:17
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the Expanse show is so far above the books, not even close. we're about to pass the half way point so Lowbeer should show up soonish.
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Nov 10, 2022 15:38
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uber_stoat posted:the Expanse show is so far above the books, not even close. Oh yeah, it's a huge improvement over the books. Thinking about it more, it's a bigger improvement over its source material than Station Eleven is. And yeah, Lowbeer is definitely in the series, so we should expect her (them?) soon enough.
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Nov 10, 2022 16:52
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Did I grotesquely misread the book's characterization of Lev? I got "semi-reluctant and bored beneficiary of mob status" not the mustache-twiddling the show is giving us. I don't hate it it just seems less interesting.
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Nov 10, 2022 20:47
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RichterIX posted:Did I grotesquely misread the book's characterization of Lev? I got "semi-reluctant and bored beneficiary of mob status" not the mustache-twiddling the show is giving us. i haven't read the book in a while but i don't remember book Lev being the kind of person who would murder his own ancestors.
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Nov 10, 2022 21:00
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RichterIX posted:Did I grotesquely misread the book's characterization of Lev? I got "semi-reluctant and bored beneficiary of mob status" not the mustache-twiddling the show is giving us. Lev is a lot less evil in the book. His own interest in the stubs is that its a hobby, not that he's using it for testing drugs on people. (It's implied that that sort of thing *is* done by others) They've literally hacked into a system created by someone else and are basically using it to mess around. The book doesn't have a really strong villain 'on screen' for almost the whole thing. They're a nebulous force doing stuff but always through proxies, and you don't learn who they are and exactly what it is they even want until right at the very end. I guess someone determined that was potentially a tough sell to a TV audience.
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Nov 10, 2022 21:16
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PeterWeller posted:I don't know if I would call it disappointing because it's not as good an adaptation as Station Eleven. Rarely do we get an adaptation that elevates the source material as well as Station Eleven did. Maybe the Expanse. Maybe Thrones at its seasons 3-5 peak.
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Nov 11, 2022 01:48
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RichterIX posted:Did I grotesquely misread the book's characterization of Lev? I got "semi-reluctant and bored beneficiary of mob status" not the mustache-twiddling the show is giving us. evenworse username posted:The book doesn't have a really strong villain 'on screen' for almost the whole thing. They're a nebulous force doing stuff but always through proxies, and you don't learn who they are and exactly what it is they even want until right at the very end. I guess someone determined that was potentially a tough sell to a TV audience.
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Nov 11, 2022 03:22
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i really need to finish reading this book, i know where it kinda ends up having read agency, but i feel it's quite obvious when it goes from actual gibson material to their own poo poo. though overall i'd say this episode is bringing me back on board
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Nov 11, 2022 11:56
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Booty Pageant posted:i really need to finish reading this book, i know where it kinda ends up having read agency, but i feel it's quite obvious when it goes from actual gibson material to their own poo poo. though overall i'd say this episode is bringing me back on board
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Nov 11, 2022 14:06
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yeah in the book Lev is basically just the kind of guy who would get "really into" NFTs
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Nov 11, 2022 15:35
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In 'Agency' there's some more stuff about Lev's relationship to the rest of his family and basically he has two older brothers who are expected to take over the organized crime business and he really wants to just fart around cloning thylacines and poking at alternate realities. It doesn't make him a *good* person; he's inherited fabulous wealth and privilege and basically thinks he should be able to spend his life amusing himself but he's a long way from the alarming dude we're getting on the show. Again, I get why though I think the story works better, especially from Flynne's POV, if it's unclear why things are even happening and everyone caught up in it just has to run around and react. Which is how it often feels in the real world.
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Nov 11, 2022 15:47
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in the book, it's a little bit of a letdown to discover that all this high drama for flynne is just a tuesday for the future. it's sort of deflating to learn how low the stakes actually are, so maybe they felt they had to juice it up for the audience
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Nov 11, 2022 17:16
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boar guy posted:in the book, it's a little bit of a letdown to discover that all this high drama for flynne is just a tuesday for the future. it's sort of deflating to learn how low the stakes actually are, so maybe they felt they had to juice it up for the audience Ersatz fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Nov 11, 2022 |
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Nov 11, 2022 17:22
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quote:People in high places routinely make decisions that don't really matter much to them, but that massively impacts others. What could the writer(s) have meant by this  
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Nov 11, 2022 17:27
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Ersatz posted:I actually really enjoyed that aspect of the book. Communication between timelines aside, that's generally how the world works. People in high places routinely make decisions that don't really matter much to them, but that massively impacts others. i didn't really mean a letdown in that I felt let down by it, it was just unusual as stories usually try to ramp up the stakes rather than coming out and saying "there are infinite possibilities that don't matter and aren't real to the reality with the server in it". i actually liked that aspect of the book as well
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Nov 11, 2022 17:28
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boar guy posted:i didn't really mean a letdown in that I felt let down by it, it was just unusual as stories usually try to ramp up the stakes rather than coming out and saying "there are infinite possibilities that don't matter and aren't real to the reality with the server in it". i actually liked that aspect of the book as well I think the novel does really ramp up the stakes for Flynn's stub at least. She goes from being a poor rural kid who makes some side cash from gaming to being one of the principles in a world-wide organization dedicated to forestalling the Jackpot and ensuring a better future. I like that lack of stakes for the London characters underscores the parallels with real world cross-border exploitation. One of the best lines in the book is when Ash exclaims, "we're third-worlding alternate continua." And I love that before building a relationship with Flynn and friends, most of the London cast think Ash is just being performative--because they're all basically idle rich folks suffering from ennui and dicking around with this cool website they found. I do think Gibson gets a little tenderfoot though because he has those same idle rich become better people by finally interacting with the people they've dehumanized and exploited.
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Nov 13, 2022 19:01
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As someone who hasn't read the book or any spoilers I speculate that the future we are observing is a stub of an even more "prime" timeline, potentially even more recursions upward. All experiments on experiments/etc. Please don't confirm or deny for those that know, but wanted to stake my speculation.
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Nov 13, 2022 23:22
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it's worth reading the book if you haven't already. they've deviated from it in enough ways that it would be a novel experience.
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Nov 13, 2022 23:27
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uber_stoat posted:novel experience.  I plan to, I love this genre but never read any Gibson other than a few attempts at Neuromancer when I was younger. Kept bouncing off for some reason, probably external in my life at the time.
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Nov 13, 2022 23:29
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Patter Recognition is a really good intro to Gibson for Gibson skeptics. It's totally grounded in the present day, you don't need to imagine the tech, as it already exists. It's a solid thriller, with some cool concepts. You could totally get through it in a day or two.
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Nov 14, 2022 00:45
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keep punching joe posted:Patter Recognition is a really good intro to Gibson for Gibson skeptics. It's totally grounded in the present day, you don't need to imagine the tech, as it already exists.
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Nov 14, 2022 00:50
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it also contains the concept of the michelin man as an eldritch horror.
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Nov 14, 2022 00:58
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Pattern Recognition is my least favorite book of his, but I think I'm unusual in that respect, and I don't think it's a bad book, so it's not a terrible place to start. I still think Neuromancer is the best place to start, since it's one of his best.
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Nov 14, 2022 03:01
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Honestly I don't think any of his books are total clunkers (I haven't read Agency yet so it could be) so you are probably safe to just pick the first book of whichever trilogy interests you. I'm partial to the Bridge Trilogy myself.
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Nov 14, 2022 04:37
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I used to think Virtual Light was a clunker but on re-read I loved it I guess I should give Spook Country another try. It's weird because I really liked the main characters of it. Milgrim the benzo addict is a nice sad boy. I just remember how incredibly disappointing the ending was
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Nov 14, 2022 15:13
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