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moctopus posted:After bonus it's probably around 105k/yr. We have a stock program, but it's just the ability to purchase stock at a lower price with a yearly limit. Hey Detroit bud. Yes, you seem underpaid even for our slice of the rusty heaven. I strongly recommend looking elsewhere. You should easily be able add another 50k on that without much effort, and probably double with some. I don't think your company will grant you the 50% raise.
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Nov 13, 2022 15:42
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moctopus posted:After bonus it's probably around 105k/yr. We have a stock program, but it's just the ability to purchase stock at a lower price with a yearly limit. If you can pass a technical interview you could easily 2x your total compensation for a senior position somewhere else. Based on your responsibilities you should probably have a staff or possibly even principal title depending on where you end up. The big thing to compensation is are you working for a company competing for global or local talent. If it’s global the pay gets way better. Local companies generally can’t and won’t compete for the ‘higher tier’ of software dev talent. Sometimes it can be hard to find well paying jobs like that locally. If you’re not willing to move then consider remote. I have a similar amount of experience as you, my total comp is over 3x yours, and I have way less responsibility. I was able to swing this position for a few reasons: I knew an engineer on the inside already willing to give me a glowing recommendation, I knew the primary language the work was in (Go), and I had lots of remote experience. An open secret is that your pay doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with the actual value you provide. You just have to appear good enough to join whatever club exists at a company. To get paid more you have to ask, or, more likely, be willing to leave and go somewhere else. I have *never* gotten a decent raise by sticking around somewhere. Every employer of mine has given minimal raises, then I get tired of the bullshit after two or three years, then I go somewhere else to get a healthy bump in pay. All this is to say, you can do it too! Go get paid way more! Possibly get less responsibility and stress too.
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Nov 13, 2022 15:51
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Thanks for the words everyone. I have a lot to think about lol.
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Nov 13, 2022 15:54
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nthing "double in detroit, triple or quadruple total comp in proper figgielands" chat
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Nov 13, 2022 15:59
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market for juniors kinda ate poo poo and died in the last few months but market for seniors seems to be chugging along fine for now
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Nov 13, 2022 16:10
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John DiFool posted:If you can pass a technical interview you could
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Nov 13, 2022 16:24
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you only need to satisfice on the actual algorithms content, the main meat of it is not being so anxious. thats a task like any other, but practicing it involves like, gettin someone to interrupt you by throwing tomatoes at you or hitting you with a whiffle bat, not math
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Nov 13, 2022 16:29
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bob dobbs is dead posted:you only need to satisfice on the actual algorithms content, the main meat of it is not being so anxious. thats a task like any other, but practicing it involves like, gettin someone to interrupt you by throwing tomatoes at you or hitting you with a whiffle bat, not math So I should play demons souls to help with my interview performance. 
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Nov 13, 2022 16:43
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bob dobbs is dead posted:nthing "double in detroit, triple or quadruple total comp in proper figgielands" chat I'm seeing numbers come down a bit in NY. I'm at roughly $275k now and looking to leave my job and it's starting to feel like it's going to be pretty tough to beat that with my 7 YoE. Finance I guess?
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Nov 13, 2022 17:53
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Good Will Hrunting posted:I'm seeing numbers come down a bit in NY. I'm at roughly $275k now and looking to leave my job and it's starting to feel like it's going to be pretty tough to beat that with my 7 YoE. Finance I guess? That's on the low end of Senior at Datadog. NYC passed a law recently that job listings have to disclose salary, so you can find theirs online, not including RSUs. Example: https://careers.datadoghq.com/detail/4609413/?gh_jid=4609413 From asking around, the biggest RSU package I've heard of someone negotiating at Senior is about $225k/yr, so the upper range for TC is around $500k I'd guess.
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Nov 13, 2022 19:44
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Good Will Hrunting posted:I'm seeing numbers come down a bit in NY. I'm at roughly $275k now and looking to leave my job and it's starting to feel like it's going to be pretty tough to beat that with my 7 YoE. Finance I guess? 275k base? Or after bonus and annualized RSU?
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Nov 13, 2022 19:52
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Edly posted:That's on the low end of Senior at Datadog. NYC passed a law recently that job listings have to disclose salary, so you can find theirs online, not including RSUs. Example: https://careers.datadoghq.com/detail/4609413/?gh_jid=4609413 I got rejected from Datadog last go around, also isn't their stock in the shitter too?
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Nov 13, 2022 21:23
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Love Stole the Day posted:275k base? Or after bonus and annualized RSU? 275 base would be lit lol
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Nov 13, 2022 21:23
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You can always go to nonprofits like me, where the pay is poo poo, but in the other hand there are no stocks either. Wait... I negotiated 32hr workweek on top of the best benefits package I ever had. They actually care about their people. And I'll be doing stuff I actually care about.
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Nov 13, 2022 21:30
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you don't actually have a guarantee of nicer peeps in nonprofit-land, unfortunately, or less worthless execs. i'm glad you found a place that's good but there's just no guarantee (and no guarantee it'll stay that way neither, ofc)
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Nov 13, 2022 21:55
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Hopefully I get laid off so I can get paid to grind LeetCode for a few weeks
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Nov 13, 2022 22:04
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Good Will Hrunting posted:I got rejected from Datadog last go around, also isn't their stock in the shitter too? Even so, it's a data point in favor of "yes you could probably do better in NY without resorting to fintech". And yeah DDOG is currently less than half its peak, although as far as I know it hasn't done especially worse than the tech sector in general.
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Nov 13, 2022 22:15
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bob dobbs is dead posted:you don't actually have a guarantee of nicer peeps in nonprofit-land, unfortunately, or less worthless execs. i'm glad you found a place that's good but there's just no guarantee (and no guarantee it'll stay that way neither, ofc) Of course not. I was talking about this specific org. That said, there's far less chance of having to work with sociopaths in the nonprofit world.
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Nov 13, 2022 22:32
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Good Will Hrunting posted:I got rejected from Datadog last go around, also isn't their stock in the shitter too? I applied to datadog before starting my current job. They tried to give me the run around on title. Saying my current title didn’t mean I’d get an equivalent title with them. I got partway through the interview process and decided I just wasn’t interested enough to keep going. Glad I passed on them. Honestly title means very little to me but the fact that they led with that was concerning.
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Nov 14, 2022 01:48
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That seems like a really weird reason to pass when you explicitly stated you don't care about titles and companies have wildly different meaning of various titles. Glancing at levels.fyi, it looks like Datadog follows Google where Senior is a step higher than it is at a lot of companies and that has a ripple effect on the titles above as well. All this said under the assumption that you actually get an offer with the TC you're looking for. asur fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Nov 14, 2022 |
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Nov 14, 2022 02:01
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asur posted:That seems like a really weird reason to pass when you explicitly stated you don't care about titles and companies have wildly different meaning of various titles. I don’t but it’s a negotiation tactic to under level people and thus pay them less. Every company I’ve been at has a specific band of comp they’re going to stick to based on title and sometimes locale. It was that and I felt like I was going to end up trading one corporate jira saas treadmill for another. Interviewing is a two way street and I was getting enough signal that it wasn’t what I was looking for. Again, I’m happy I passed on it.
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Nov 14, 2022 02:39
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How do you guys calculate TC? I have units in the company I work for that are vesting but we're not publicly traded or anything so our actual value is ???
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Nov 14, 2022 02:47
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sacrifice a rooster on top of some rice and interpret the pattern the entrails and blood make on the rice, hth
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Nov 14, 2022 02:49
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prom candy posted:How do you guys calculate TC? I have units in the company I work for that are vesting but we're not publicly traded or anything so our actual value is ??? Base + _liquid_ equity vesting per year + guaranteed bonus Startup scratchers have non-zero value, but definitely lower than current stated value. It's easier to round non-liquid equity to zero
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Nov 14, 2022 02:51
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You should know what your equity is theoretically worth and then apply a discount for the risk because it isn't liquid. I would personally agree with leper khan and apply a discount of 100%, e.g. it's worth nothing, and I don't work at a company that offers non-liquid equity for this reason.
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Nov 14, 2022 03:10
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The number you tell the IRS at the end of the year is the most important number, but obviously you don't know what that number will be until the end of the year if you have non-salary comp. What things exactly do you have vesting? If you have actual shares vesting and there's no path to liquidation then you're getting extremely hosed, as you have to pay income taxes on that. Normally private companies which give actual stock also give you the option to sell that stock back to them. If they're options then that's not a taxable event, but options having a vesting schedule for a non-C-suite is kind of weird.
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Nov 14, 2022 03:23
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prom candy posted:How do you guys calculate TC? I have units in the company I work for that are vesting but we're not publicly traded or anything so our actual value is ??? companies are required to maintain an independent valuation of their common stock when offering it to employees (a 409a valuation), so that's a starting point and you should ask your employer what the most recent one is. unfortunately that's no guarantee you can sell your stock at that valuation, or any valuation, so in practice the actual answer is more like ???
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Nov 14, 2022 04:14
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I'm not good at the economy but I don't pay taxes on these units, I filed a w8-BEM (unrelated to the CSS system, I learned) which according to my accountant was the right thing to do. I've kinda always assumed the shares are worth $0 and will be pleasantly surprised if I'm wrong. It's a very small company. I should probably figure out exactly what these units are though (or pay a professional to do it for me)
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Nov 14, 2022 06:05
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prom candy posted:How do you guys calculate TC? I have units in the company I work for that are vesting but we're not publicly traded or anything so our actual value is ??? If there's no planned liquidity event it's worth zero to you. That's not to say it valueless or you wouldn't want to negotiate more equity if possible. But as far as TC goes it's zero because you have zero control over whether you can ever sell it or at what price.
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Nov 14, 2022 14:06
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Motronic posted:If there's no planned liquidity event it's worth zero to you. I think that makes sense. I'm happy with the base pay so I've always seen it as icing on the cake. I know the business plan is to exit eventually but who knows when that might be.
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Nov 14, 2022 17:25
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If this thread has taught me anything it's that you should never be happy with any sort of pay and always be looking.
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Nov 14, 2022 17:50
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I will point out that while all of this advice is good and correct when it comes to calculating taxes, budgeting, and comparing your current gig to potential future ones, the equation changes when you're actually negotiating switching jobs. "Well, I have RSUs and options worth [almost naively optimistic value] with my current company, can you match that in a signing bonus?"
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Nov 14, 2022 18:38
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Good Will Hrunting posted:If this thread has taught me anything it's that you should never be happy with any sort of pay and always be looking. I'm in my coasting era. Increase my take home by 50% but I have to attend frequent camera-on meetings and deal with a bunch of BS and work more than 20-25 hours per week? Nah.
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Nov 14, 2022 20:11
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You can do these things and still get paid a fuckton, just grind that LC baby.
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Nov 14, 2022 22:48
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My company just did layoffs recently and shut down my entire business unit in the process. I thought surely they'll lay me off, get that sweet severance, then take a bunch of time off to figure out what to do next. Instead my promo packet to Staff/TL got approved. And I'm getting moved to a struggling team to be the most senior engineer and right the ship.  gently caress me. Now I have to ride this out at least to paternity leave in ~March.
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Nov 14, 2022 23:28
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Love Stole the Day posted:Yeah I'm expecting mass layoffs to happen everywhere sometime this year. Rising interest rates means that it's more expensive to finance new projects, which means fewer reasons to hire new people; and rising inflation means that it's more expensive to have people in general, which means fewer reasons to hire new people. So, if revenue won't go up, then you gotta make expenses go down or else the stock price will go down, the dividends will be smaller, and the CEO will look bad. Also, since virtually everyone who has any money is invested in "stocks" (read: dark pools) because everything else sucks, they can't afford to let the growth in net income stop because then all the institutions that actually own the shares will be screwed (read: bailed out again). I'm toxxing that it'll happen in the Summer around the timing of whatever earnings call that is, and then they'll simultaneously announce compensation adjustments for the survivors due to inflation so that the news doesn't make all of their brands look "too" bad. Reposting my Toxx from earlier this year because layoffs is the topic of the day, although instead of Summer it turned out to be the Fall, and the compensation adjustment for inflation part was for everyone was wrong. Instead they just did "retention bonuses" only for specific key people. I shouldn't have been so optimistic.
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Nov 14, 2022 23:37
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Heh yes the retention bonuses. Given cosmic irony: my mega-corporation that gave me a poo poo pile of stock, a promotion, and a 40% raise this year will end up laying me off when the feral lion they let loose to make the decision snags me.
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Nov 15, 2022 00:52
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Good Will Hrunting posted:If this thread has taught me anything it's that you should never be happy
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Nov 15, 2022 01:26
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The layoff wave hasn't directly impacted me, but there are strong hints that heads may roll later and that folks should put extra effort into documenting how well they're performing for next year's review process. I suck at selling myself like that and need to find the time to thoroughly review and upsell my actions and impact in the previous year. Which will take time away from actual deliverables, on top of the demand for the "performative" deliverables... I'm (un)subtly dropping hints to the newbies on the team that they should have an emergency fund that could cover a few months of expenses, just in case. This'll be the first experience with broad layoffs in the industry—any tips from those that've been here before about how to handle the uncertainty, mitigate risks, and bounce back if needed?
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Nov 17, 2022 05:07
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Check out your state’s unemployment benefits, how much and how long. You’ll probably max out the weekly benefit. Make a budget based on that. Going through this exercise will give you peace of mind. Now you know what the worst case scenario is, and hopefully it’s not that bad.
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Nov 17, 2022 05:18
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