|
A lot of the stuff in that trilogy, like Hubertus Bigend, seems really on the nose if you read it now until you remember Pattern Recognition came out in 2003. There's been a couple of times Gibson has tweeted out current events news and been like "If I had put this in one of my books I would have been accused of being too cute with it"
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2022 16:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 09:42 |
|
|
TychoCelchuuu posted:Pattern Recognition is my least favorite book of his, but I think I'm unusual in that respect, and I don't think it's a bad book, so it's not a terrible place to start. I still think Neuromancer is the best place to start, since it's one of his best. The problem with Neuromancer as a starting point now is that it is so very much a 1980s vision of the future (e.g. 'It is the world to come, but with no wifi or cellphones') and some readers can't get past that. If you can, or are  like me, it's a great book and Gibson is still clearly interested in some of the issues from it. (Messing around with the implications of AI in Agency)I send people to Pattern Recognition because I think it's really very good, deals with most of the Gibson-y themes you'll see in most of his work, and isn't quite so dated. Though I guess by now it might be getting there. Of the Blue Ant trilogy, Zero History was the one that just doesn't work at all for me. Spook Country I actually quite liked once I figured out what the heck was going on, but Zero History feels like a story he's already told a couple times.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2022 16:28
|
|
|
The idea of a web forum painstakingly investigating frames of a mystery film seems very dated now to be fair. In fact the idea of a web forum for seems incredibly dated 
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2022 16:31
|
|
|
The painstaking dissection of every frame of a movie absolutely sounds like something that would happen currently. You're also absolutely right re: the web forum, though.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2022 16:42
|
|
|
the footage is just a fictionalized version of those old arg things except spookier. though i think Pattern Recognition may actually predate the first of those. not sure of the timeline.
uber_stoat fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Nov 14, 2022 |
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2022 16:52
|
|
|
uber_stoat posted:the footage is just a fictionalized version of those old arg things except spookier. though i think Pattern Recognition may actually predate the first of those. not sure of the timeline. It came out in 2003 but I do remember a couple of ARG type things from around that time. One involved a hiker finding an old camera in the desert that was full of all sorts of spooky blurry images. It was big on live journal.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2022 17:15
|
|
|
evenworse username posted:The painstaking dissection of every frame of a movie absolutely sounds like something that would happen currently. The thing that dates Pattern Recognition is the complete absence of Youtube. evenworse username posted:The problem with Neuromancer as a starting point now is that it is so very much a 1980s vision of the future (e.g. 'It is the world to come, but with no wifi or cellphones') and some readers can't get past that. If you can, or are The problem with Neuromancer is that nobody born in the last 20 years has a point of reference for the opening sentence. I think Pattern Recognition dates itself just about as much as Neuromancer because it is set in a slice of very particularly post-9/11 time. This is why I like to start people off with Virtual Light. It still feels like a future that is coming to pass. Also, the Bridge Trilogy is still his best sustained effort.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2022 17:51
|
|
|
i think ultimately the thing that holds Neuromancer back the most is that it's really the only thing of his that has any hint of being enamored with how cool cyberpunk is, you know? all his other stuff has a very world-weary, pragmatic view on the dystopias he writes about, but Neuromancer has a lot of that kind of Bruce Sterling or Neal Stephenson attitude. y'know, mirror shades and all that
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2022 21:30
|
|
|
which is why it's funny and cool when he himself pokes fun at this in Mona Lisa Overdrive, with the Finn telling Molly that Case moved to the suburbs
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2022 21:31
|
|
|
Why are those "air scrubbers" giant gaudy statues? That's what's bugging me the most about this show.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2022 22:06
|
|
|
Combat Pretzel posted:Why are those "air scrubbers" giant gaudy statues? That's what's bugging me the most about this show. affectations of the rich, I guess
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2022 22:07
|
|
|
Combat Pretzel posted:Why are those "air scrubbers" giant gaudy statues? That's what's bugging me the most about this show. the whole world is an art project for the tiny little plutocratic rump of the human race that still exists.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2022 22:26
|
|
|
Combat Pretzel posted:Why are those "air scrubbers" giant gaudy statues? That's what's bugging me the most about this show. Why would they not be? Might as well do something ostentatious. Why is Grand Central Station like that, when it could be a flat-roofed shed? Even now we disguise cellphone towers as trees.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2022 23:19
|
|
|
I don't know. It just looks out of place. Any big structures that have been built or are planned in the real world have way more modern looks. E.g. something that looks like "The Vessel", or whatever big rear end stuff they have built or are building in UAE and vicinity.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2022 23:25
|
|
|
Combat Pretzel posted:I don't know. It just looks out of place. Any big structures that have been built or are planned in the real world have way more modern looks. E.g. something that looks like "The Vessel", or whatever big rear end stuff they have built or are building in UAE and vicinity. in the book the architecture takes this thing as its touchstone so i guess they just decided to go a different direction with it. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2022 23:53
|
|
|
Combat Pretzel posted:I don't know. It just looks out of place. Any big structures that have been built or are planned in the real world have way more modern looks. E.g. something that looks like "The Vessel", or whatever big rear end stuff they have built or are building in UAE and vicinity. Future Britain is doing a lot of reaching into the imagined past with the mandatory cosplay zones and the tiny Trafalgar reenactments and so on so the enormous quasi-classical statues seem to be of a piece with that. Like, if the Victorians could have build giant gaudy statues like that, they 100% would have.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2022 00:05
|
|
|
britain is a very silly place; future britain, doubly so edit: not just making a joke, in the novel it is quite canon that the people running the world in the future are incredibly silly and they do all kinds of very silly things
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2022 03:06
|
|
|
It would look like every other goddamn sci-fi show if the scrubbers looked like fancy future things so I'm glad they made them into a more interesting option.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2022 04:52
|
|
|
Whoa, I missed the premiere but just watched the pilot and it's gooood. The first time she was in the new VR thing I thought "I sure as hell would want to know how to GTFO" and welp. I've read Neuromancer years ago but nothing else since by Gibson unfortunately. Would it make sense to read the book before the rest of the show? Or afterwards?
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2022 11:06
|
|
|
mobby_6kl posted:I've read Neuromancer years ago but nothing else since by Gibson unfortunately. Would it make sense to read the book before the rest of the show? Or afterwards?
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2022 12:29
|
|
|
They're diverging enough from the book plot that I don't think you'll spoil yourself or anything reading the book while you're watching the show.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2022 14:36
|
|
|
Alright, thanks, I'll try to read it if I have some time while catching up on the series 
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2022 17:55
|
|
|
precision posted:i think ultimately the thing that holds Neuromancer back the most is that it's really the only thing of his that has any hint of being enamored with how cool cyberpunk is, you know? all his other stuff has a very world-weary, pragmatic view on the dystopias he writes about, but Neuromancer has a lot of that kind of Bruce Sterling or Neal Stephenson attitude. y'know, mirror shades and all that I don't think that's right. Gibson definitely thinks the Bay Bridge is this super cool interstitial place in the Bridge novels, and his massive hardons for London and Tokyo poke through the pages of Idoru and Mona Lisa Overdrive respectively (and to a lesser extent in Pattern Recognition and Zero History). I think that impression comes across in Neuromancer because it's Case's impression for the first part of the novel, and he's the only focal character in it. I think his impression changes as the novel goes on too. I'd also add that I'm pretty sure Stephenson is taking the piss in Snowcrash, and while Sterling's protagonists always think they're the coolest dudes in the room, Sterling himself doesn't necessarily agree with them. The biggest difference between Neuromancer and Gibson's later works to me is a structural one. It has one focal character following one narrative thread throughout, unlike every other novel* of his that has multiple focal characters on multiple threads that come together for a finale. E* Oops, except Pattern Recognition which also follows only a single focal character, with (un)coincidentally, a very similar name. PeterWeller fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Nov 15, 2022 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2022 19:52
|
|
|
man burton must hate cops, tommy can't catch a break with anyone
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2022 11:06
|
|
|
Combat Pretzel posted:I don't know. It just looks out of place. Any big structures that have been built or are planned in the real world have way more modern looks. E.g. something that looks like "The Vessel", or whatever big rear end stuff they have built or are building in UAE and vicinity. Umm the monied class of the uk is obsessed, or at least has been, with ancient Greece and Rome (Republic and Empire), to an insane degree. For example: A Victorian (Macaulay) wrote The Lays of Ancient Rome, of which Winston Churchill prove his intellectual worth by reciting all 70 stanzas of Horatius Cocles. Memorising Horatius Cocles was expected of all pupils who went to the most exclusive private schools. Thomas Babington Macaulay posted:XXVII Classical statues are not surprising at all.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2022 01:07
|
|
|
The terrible writing in this show is starting to grate on me. I like all the actors, the production design, the changes from the book, the special effects (everything looks quite impressive, really) and so on. But the scripts are really getting me down and episode 6 is the worst. So many people quipping at each other. I don't want to be the guy who says "everything is trying to be a Marvel movie and every Marvel movie is trying to be Joss Whedon" but... it's pretty accurate for a lot of this show. I like Marvel movies but that's not the tone I want for a show about the PTSD, let alone a show about the loving Jackpot. It's annoying all the time but I think it's the worst when it comes to Lowbeer whom they've turned into a sarcastic quipster. She's one of my favorite characters from the book and a lot of that seems like it's gone. Giving her a sidekick to quip with is pretty emblematic of the issue. One of her biggest traits in the book is how much of a solo actor she is (or appears to be). Gonna keep watching, but through gritted teeth whenever the quipping starts up. Also, in this episode, Flynn seems to know what neoprims are, this despite the fact that I'm not sure anyone has explained this to her yet, right? And I don't think the viewer even knows who they are in the context of the show, right?
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2022 10:32
|
|
|
It is still something worth putting on in the background, but ever since the explanation of the Jackpot the quality has seemed to fall off a cliff. Luckily the villains were always corny trash though! Lowbeer was giving me some of that Aughts energy where a magical LGBT character fixes everything.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2022 14:02
|
|
|
Lowbeer is seventeen steps ahead of everyone else at all times, so being all quippy fits her character and necessitates a sidekick off whom she can bounce those quips.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2022 02:10
|
|
|
As someone who hasn't read the book(s) I've been enjoying the series so far. I was going to complain about how the haptics seemed too advanced for a series that takes place 10 years in the future but then they explained it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2022 03:50
|
|
|
If lowbeer has arrived I guess I need to watch l finish watching this
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2022 03:06
|
|
|
i almost never don't finish a piece of media i start but im about to ready player one this thing. i haven't been able to bring myself to watch past episode 3
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2022 08:08
|
|
|
at this rate we could combine with the westworld thread and there probably wouldn't be a difference!!
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2022 10:02
|
|
|
boar guy posted:i almost never don't finish a piece of media i start but im about to ready player one this thing. i haven't been able to bring myself to watch past episode 3 Thank you for your service.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2022 10:05
|
|
|
I'll see it out to the end. I like the cast, the production design, and it looks like I imagined the novel. I don't like the deviations from the original story, and see no reason for doing so. Why is Aelita now Nethertons sister, why is Netherton not a drunk dork? Why is Flynne suddenly a martial arts expert? Why is there a scenery chewing villian? Taken as it's own piece of work seperate from the book it's fine I guess.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2022 10:20
|
|
|
I just caught up with the series and while the first couple episodes were definitely the strongest, it doesn't seem to be like Westworld-bad at all? Only a couple of episodes left anyway so I see no reasons not to finish this season 
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2022 10:32
|
|
|
keep punching joe posted:Why is Flynne suddenly a martial arts expert? Why is there a scenery chewing villian? These two have easy answers. Flynne is an expert virtual gamer, which is why she was recruited to pilot the peri by Aelita in the first place. And, it's a TV show. I love the novel, and I like this show. I get not liking the changes from the former to the latter, but they all strike me as adapting the story to the conventions of streaming television. Would it be a better show had it defied or ignored those conventions? Probably. But it also probably wouldn't have got made.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2022 15:25
|
|
|
The show has a little too much Big Dad Show energy any time military stuff happens
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2022 19:45
|
|
|
I'm only on episode 3, but I'm really enjoying this. I find the dates and tech implausible at best, but that's really just a minor nitpick, not some huhe flaw or whatever. I've read some Gibson, but not the source for this. Definitely think I'll check it out. Edit: I had been calling the cop guy "that Lincoln Clay looking mfer" in my mind, but then I saw that yeah, that was intentional. He's Lincoln Clay, I'm just stupid Edit 2: that wasp death scene had no need nor right to be that funny Terra-da-loo! fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Nov 22, 2022 |
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2022 20:04
|
|
|
They were bees!
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2022 02:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 09:42 |
|
|
No, not thee bees!
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2022 21:03
|
|