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Does the timing belt drive all cams or just a subset? Not the same thing, but a 1.8t VW engine has the timing belt drive one cam gear and a chain/tensioner setup at the back (that fails, naturally) drives the other cam.
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Nov 14, 2022 23:03
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spankmeister posted:How would an electronic issue cause a complete loss of compression? 0 psi. Most engines these days have some form of VVT. It getting confused and leaving the exhaust valves open would fit.
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Nov 14, 2022 23:10
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Motronic posted:This reads like a broken or jumped timing chain. I know you said you checked. Agree. But the timing marks line up!  I've refitted the timing belt twice and have verified the marks over and over. I've used a timing light to verify ignition timing.I'd love it to be the belt, but I don't see it. The belt is exposed right now, its a quick job to try and line it up for a third time, but the marks are all spot on, and four cylinders have good compression. Honestly confused. RIP Paul Walker posted:Does the timing belt drive all cams or just a subset? It drives the intake cams only, the exhaust cams are driven by a set of gears halfway down the camshaft. All the cams look good and turn as expected. cursedshitbox posted:Pull the valve covers. Crank it over. Look for broken cams and fragged lobes. I did turn the engine over with one valve cover off, lobes look good, cams not broken. I did half expect a broken camshaft, since the frontmost cylinders are the "good" ones. Deteriorata posted:Most engines these days have some form of VVT. It getting confused and leaving the exhaust valves open would fit. Sorry, I should have specified, this is the earliest 1UZ motor, not the VVT model. I agree with everyone that a leakdown test is next. Just very weird that 4 cylinders across two heads would drop to 0psi at the same time :|
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Nov 14, 2022 23:29
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Deteriorata posted:Most engines these days have some form of VVT. It getting confused and leaving the exhaust valves open would fit. This really isn't how these systems work nor how far they can typically adjust. They also tend to default to base/idle timing when unenergized/no hydraulic pressure/broken for very very obvious reasons. Pomp and Circumcized posted:I agree with everyone that a leakdown test is next. Just very weird that 4 cylinders across two heads would drop to 0psi at the same time :| Yeah, that's why everyone is saying it's timing. There's no reasonable way multiple cylinders on different heads all "went bad" at the same time. The commonality is timing. Maybe it's not the belt(s). Maybe you have a drive pulley that ate a woodruff key or something else. But it's almost definitely timing. Motronic fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Nov 14, 2022 |
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Nov 14, 2022 23:54
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The thing to point out is the front half of the cylinders on both banks are fine but it dropped out basically the back two on bank one and bank two. It's a quad overhead cam engine with one cam per bank being driven by a cam belt. Fwiw VVT actuators do something like 5-15 degrees. It would affect the entire bank's compression test results, not just one or two. Which would also be the same if the engine jumped time in any respective fashion. The entire results for that bank would be off, not the back half on both banks.
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Nov 15, 2022 00:11
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Pomp and Circumcized posted:
This is just a graphic that I picked up off the net, but its not the two rear cylinders on each bank, but the two rear cylinders on one and the two middle cylinders on the other. I had to look because I was confused when the goon mentioned cylinder numbers and it seemed like a weird order for them to be in, if it was the two rear cylinders on each bank. 
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Nov 15, 2022 00:52
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wesleywillis posted:I don't know how much money you've got but a borescope would help you track it down. Thanks...that was like a microscopic and even more frustrating version of the claw game, but I'm now celebrating by drinking the beer I owe you  .
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Nov 15, 2022 00:57
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Hell yeah. Just think of how much time you might have spent poking around unsuccessfully without that scope. Spend that amount of time drinking beer.
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Nov 15, 2022 01:04
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JoshGuitar posted:Thanks...that was like a microscopic and even more frustrating version of the claw game, but I'm now celebrating by drinking the beer I owe you Hell yes love seeing thread success stories. (also, that would have hosed some poo poo up big time. Would have been real fun if it made it to the pump!)
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Nov 15, 2022 01:29
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Motronic posted:This really isn't how these systems work nor how far they can typically adjust. They also tend to default to base/idle timing when unenergized/no hydraulic pressure/broken for very very obvious reasons. I agree, it all stinks of timing. The thing is, I watched piston 8 rise on it's compression stroke, and the cam lobes for both intake and exhaust were clear of the valves. I also get correct ignition timing via a timing light, from the #1 plug wire, which wouldn't happen if those cams were out of time, as the cam sensor is used along with the crank sensor to coordinate ignition timing. It really feels like timing. I really want it to be timing. Because I can fix timing without removing the engine and opening up the heads. I'll take some videos when I'm next at the car, I think those will hlep more than my descriptions? Yes, you're correct. Centre two on the left bank, rear two on the right. Cylinders numbered front to back in order of where they sit on the crank.
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Nov 15, 2022 01:34
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wesleywillis posted:Hell yeah. Just think of how much time you might have spent poking around unsuccessfully without that scope. I'd probably die of alcohol poisoning. Motronic posted:Hell yes love seeing thread success stories. It was already downstream of the pump, so I don't see a way it could have made it back in. It would have had to get through both the thermostat and the radiator. But who knows. Either way I'm glad it's out. I had a fun time explaining my dilemma to a very drunk former dealership tech friend the other day. I dunno where he was coming up with his confused scenarios. "If it makes it into one of the cylinders it's gonna trash the rings or bend a valve or some poo poo". "If it makes it into a cylinder from the water jacket, I have way bigger problems than some piston rings". "Ok but if it gets wedged under a rocker or something..." "Go lay down".
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Nov 15, 2022 01:40
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JoshGuitar posted:Thanks...that was like a microscopic and even more frustrating version of the claw game, but I'm now celebrating by drinking the beer I owe you Holy poo poo you got it, well done. Ai stupid questions thread: just the tip
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Nov 15, 2022 01:54
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honda whisperer posted:Ai stupid questions thread: just the tip
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Nov 15, 2022 02:16
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Pomp and Circumcized posted:I agree, it all stinks of timing. Out of curiosity does it still move under its own power? Maybe broken crank.
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Nov 15, 2022 02:48
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JoshGuitar posted:Thanks...that was like a microscopic and even more frustrating version of the claw game, but I'm now celebrating by drinking the beer I owe you Nice job! drat, that could've been a nightmarish odyssey... JoshGuitar posted:It was already downstream of the pump, so I don't see a way it could have made it back in. It would have had to get through both the thermostat and the radiator. It could very well have blocked a galley somewhere and cooked something, warping. Nasty.
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Nov 15, 2022 04:35
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STR posted:Still, killing a 110 amp circuit tells me you're trying to kill the main feed for the car (which sometimes does disconnect the alternator - they often run through the beefy main fuse, and a 110 amp circuit is beefy enough to be the main fuse). You'd be better off just switching the BCM circuit. It's just the interior. The alternator circuit is way higher amperage. VWs, at least older ones, have a strip fuse box on top of the battery. One of those runs the interior fuse box and the BCM. If the pieces of poo poo VW calls electrical engineers made it realistically possible, I'd just splice and switch the BCM power line, but good luck figuring that poo poo out in less than a thousand hours of trawling through awful VW "wiring diagrams" that are spread out across literally 518 PDFs, each of which has safety warning bullshit that wastes a few seconds of your time when you open it. I'm not even convinced there is a single power source to the BCM after the line I'm talking about. Unless I pull a 25 pole switch out my rear end and spend hours splicing, it's got to be cutting that 110A line. Deteriorata posted:My gut tells me that installing and debugging this switch and relay is going to be just as much effort, if not more, than tracking down the parasitic draw and fixing it properly. No shot. Everything electrical in a VW is a Lovecraftian horror. The most likely proper fix is replacing every door latch, since they've all got multiple lovely microswitches in them, and there's not a way to tell which one is the problem. The fact that you can't get them out without completely disassembling everything else in the door and the awful glass retention mechanism VW uses means you're talking about breaking and replacing a couple of the windows while you're at it, and probably some other stuff. And there's far from any guarantee that an intermittent switch is what's keeping the BCM awake. It's more than a day of work and over a grand in parts just to try to fix it. Not remotely worth it. It'd be cheaper and faster to replace all four doors and the hatch. Doing this, OTOH, is a few hours max. The hardest parts are getting two wires through the firewall and finding space to mount things in the engine bay. I just want to find the simplest way of packaging it, so that if some idiot decides to mess with it, they don't light the car on fire. There has to be some source for a generic package for this type of thing, I just wish I knew where to look for it. JoshGuitar posted:Thanks...that was like a microscopic and even more frustrating version of the claw game, but I'm now celebrating by drinking the beer I owe you That must be so satisfying. K8.0 fucked around with this message at 07:19 on Nov 15, 2022 |
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Nov 15, 2022 07:14
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K8.0 posted:It's just the interior. The alternator circuit is way higher amperage. VWs, at least older ones, have a strip fuse box on top of the battery. One of those runs the interior fuse box and the BCM. If the pieces of poo poo VW calls electrical engineers made it realistically possible, I'd just splice and switch the BCM power line, but good luck figuring that poo poo out in less than a thousand hours of trawling through awful VW "wiring diagrams" that are spread out across literally 518 PDFs, each of which has safety warning bullshit that wastes a few seconds of your time when you open it. I'm not even convinced there is a single power source to the BCM after the line I'm talking about. Unless I pull a 25 pole switch out my rear end and spend hours splicing, it's got to be cutting that 110A line. the thing that keeps throwing me about your posts is the size of the feed in question 110A would be like a 1AWG wire according to NFPA79, which admittedly is a bit conservative. call it 3awg, or an 8awg fusible link? the only things that would normally exceed that are the starter motor and maybe the alternator. the BCM probably pulls, what, 20A at most, with all its outputs turned on and feeding lights/motors/etc? is there really no separate fuse for the BCM? e: read your post a bit more carefully, "interior fuse box and the bcm", is the bcm not individually fused from that interior fuse box? a 110A fuse would usually be for like "the whole drat car except the starter motor" or something. thats why people were talking about battery cutouts before, anyway
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Nov 15, 2022 09:45
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Picked up a borescope a ways back. The thing is drat handy to have around.
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Nov 15, 2022 09:53
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C-Bangin' it 
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Colostomy Bag posted:Picked up a borescope a ways back. The thing is drat handy to have around. We'll also save a ton on colonoscopies! Although judging by your name, maybe you're past all that.
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Nov 15, 2022 11:00
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Raluek posted:the thing that keeps throwing me about your posts is the size of the feed in question Also the absolute assuredness that fixing something the right way is not an option. There's even a menu of excuses, none of which included an amp clamp and pulling fuses to narrow this down.
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Nov 15, 2022 14:58
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Raluek posted:the thing that keeps throwing me about your posts is the size of the feed in question I get it, but I promise you that the fuse I'm talking about is absolutely only the interior of the car. The wire is 4 AWG, which seems to fall right in line with automotive guidelines given its approximate length. There is a "BCM / cruise control / AC / heated seats" fuse, but pulling it doesn't depower the BCM. Nor does any other fuse. Nor does any single relay kill the BCM functions I care about. The strip fuse and subsequent 4 AWG wire I'm talking about are the last point at which you can disconnect a single thing and prevent this draw from happening. Motronic posted:Also the absolute assuredness that fixing something the right way is not an option. There's even a menu of excuses, none of which included an amp clamp and pulling fuses to narrow this down. I have an ammeter, I've pulled the fuses. There are IIRC four fuses that all have to go simultaneously before the BCM will go to sleep (the piece of paper I tracked it on is not at my house). It's not a timeout issue, I left it sitting in my driveway for an entire weekend putting fuses back hours apart, any of them will wake it up and it stays awake. Any other BCM-related fuse will wake it for a few seconds then it goes right back to sleep. It's not loving normal the way VW does electrical stuff. You can go look on VW forums yourself if you want, the "normal" fix for the numerous types of issues that come from issues with these switches is to spend tons of time pulling latch modules out of the doors, pulling them apart and replacing microswitches in until you luck into finding the right one. Or you don't, because actually it's an issue with the lock harness, or the BCM itself has some kind of issue, or it's actually one of the window or lock switches, or something else. I already checked everything that's even slightly easy, it's not any of them, and the harder ones are simply not worth doing because the effort and expense involved is insane.
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Nov 15, 2022 18:48
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Yes, VW forums. Known for quality electrical troubleshooting advice. You've dug in real good here and are gonna do whatever it is that you're gonna do. Best of luck and I hope you don't end up burning it down or causing it to lose power while at highway speeds.
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Nov 15, 2022 18:53
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So I'm gonna preface this by saying that I don't know the first loving thing about cars or their electrical systems. But Google didn't really help me here and I don't want to start randomly calling up car stereo shops about this issue. Hopefully I can get some advice here  I have a 2007 Toyota Corolla S with 168k miles on it. A few years back, before covid, I got fed up that I couldn't connect my phone to the car stereo and got a Pioneer AVH-1550NEX put in. All of this was done by the shop so I don't have much knowledge on wiring/connections/etc. It worked fine for the most part, but maybe 2% of the time I would start the car and the stereo simply would not turn on (and the power button was unresponsive). It was rare enough that it was annoying, but not annoying enough to get me to do anything about it. But in recent days that percentage has been rising. It's still low, maybe 5-10%, but there's definitely something going on there. The weird thing about it is that if the stereo doesn't turn on with the car, I'll start driving... and then 5 minutes later, the welcome screen pops up and it starts working like nothing happened. I've also had a couple (much rarer) incidents where the stereo will turn on with the car, then shut itself off about a minute in, and then turn itself on again 5 minutes later and work fine. But the common factor is that I only seem to get issues with the stereo at the beginning of the trip. Once I'm going and the stereo has been on for a couple minutes, I've never had any random shutoffs in the entire time I've had it. All I've found on Google about this issue is some stuff about potentially loose wiring, but if that were the problem I feel like the shutoffs would be way more random and happen a lot more mid-drive. I also got my battery tested last month and I was told it needed a replacement, so I got one, but it hasn't changed anything about the stereo issue. I dunno if this is the right place to ask about this problem, but maybe someone here has some insights? I'd appreciate it.
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Nov 15, 2022 22:03
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Probably weak power or ground connection on the stereo wiring adapter harness assuming the installer used one. Red, black, yellow are the standard colors for aftermarket radios. I would start by pulling it out and checking those. If nothing changes the unit itself may be failing.
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Nov 15, 2022 22:27
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Who makes a good set of ramps for working under a car these days?
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Nov 16, 2022 06:56
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Hey what should I do about this if anything? I brought my car into a shop for tire rotation and oil change. They take the car overnight and tell me its done. I get there and on the receipt it says they used 0w-30. I say, oh wait my car takes 5w-30 and they tell me no it doesn't. The guy argues with me that its written on the cap so they couldn't get it wrong! Okay, so I go out to my car and get the manual and show them, no its 5w-30 and the confusion is because its a mazda3 turbo which uses heavier oil than the 2.0 and 2.5. The guy tells me "well its full synthetic that we put in, so its the same thing" and I pushed back and asked for them to fix it. He tells me okay, but its going to be another day. Come today, they call me and say its ready. I get there 20 minutes later and the car is parked in the exact same place as the previous day, the engine is cold to the touch, and the mazda3 has this annoying feature where if the door has been opened and closed 10 times since the last engine-start it beeps a battery warning at you, and that's going off. So obviously these guys lied to me, said they would fix it, made me wait a day, and then called me to pick it up without doing poo poo. I can just BARELY not prove it, but its pretty obvious. What should I do if anything? 0w-30 and 5w-30 are not THAT different, but its also a new car with 9000 miles on it, and it already leaks oil (there is a TSB for this, like half the skyactive turbos made in 2021 have this). I don't really want thinner oil leaking through the seals and exacerbating things, but I also don't want to buy a usb->obd2 cable to prove they didn't do poo poo. I am dumb and bad at cars please help me thank you.
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Nov 16, 2022 16:48
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In this particular case you're over reacting. At operating temp 5w30 and 0w30 will be essentially identical in terms of viscosity, and a synthetic oil is better than a conventional or blend in terms of longevity and resistance to breakdown. The 0 vs 5 simply means at cold temperatures, like when starting the motor after sitting over night, the viscosity of the 0 will be slightly lower than the 5, it's not a huge difference but the lower the temp the more pronounced the difference. In either case at cold temps it's much much much more viscous than when it's near operating temp. 0 will simply mean slightly less wear and tear on the engine and easier cold starting vs the 5. The only downside is that 0w-30 will have more friction modifiers than 5w-30 but for normal oil change intervals and non motorsport driving I'd take the 0w30 synthetic over 5w30 anyday.
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Nov 16, 2022 17:08
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But also don't go there again and leave a lovely review.
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Nov 16, 2022 17:10
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Cage posted:But also don't go there again and leave a lovely review. It's definitely this. Find a better shop but you're fine.
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Nov 16, 2022 18:29
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Fwiw, Toyota recommends 0-20 in winter and 5-20 for summer. If it's getting cold where you are,, then the 0-30 might even be beneficial.
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Nov 16, 2022 18:34
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Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the answers. What is the reason turbos use heavier oil? The turbo itself needs it due to the range of temperatures it runs at? They're more sensitive to excess load at low temps I think?
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Nov 16, 2022 19:35
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Salt Fish posted:Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the answers. What is the reason turbos use heavier oil? The turbo itself needs it due to the range of temperatures it runs at? They're more sensitive to excess load at low temps I think? Probably because it's a high temperature environment and lighter oils thin out too much.
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Nov 16, 2022 19:36
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vast majority of turbos run basically bushings(journal bearing) and are oil cooled.
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Nov 16, 2022 19:44
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You also should run synthetic oil in a turbo, it deals with the high temperatures much better.
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Nov 16, 2022 20:38
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Nobody posted in response to you so you get me posting stupid poo poo. heck yeah, thank you for the detailed response. There seems to be a scarce few good cars that get an A grade on everything (including the updated side testing). The bolded is also important for me to keep in mind. I'm currently in a vehicle made well before 2010, so just getting into a new vehicle will itself be a lot safer.
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Nov 19, 2022 09:51
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TheOneAndOnlyT posted:So I'm gonna preface this by saying that I don't know the first loving thing about cars or their electrical systems. But Google didn't really help me here and I don't want to start randomly calling up car stereo shops about this issue. Hopefully I can get some advice here They likely grabbed the power for the deck from one of the nearby 12v sources like the ciggy lighter or similar. It's possible that the fuse for the circuit they grabbed it from is starting to fail, not super likely but it's a cheap enough thing that I would start with getting some new fuses and replacing/examining the ones in your car. Generally a failing fuse has the opposite behavior (starting fine then making GBS threads the bed when it gets warm) but worth checking. There's also often a fuse on the rear of the deck itself. I would also see if the times the deck won't turn on coincides with another system not getting power so you can narrow it down to a wiring issue. Really the first step is to visually inspect the wiring and see if it's anything obvious but I thought I'd provide the above as it's daunting to do so for someone who doesn't do this a lot.
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Nov 19, 2022 16:30
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Deteriorata posted:Given that it happened rather suddenly I'm going to guess first at electronics, probably the ECU. Maybe a connector came lose or a wire broke. Something like that. Was this a joke e: I see that it was not bird with big dick fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Nov 19, 2022 |
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Nov 19, 2022 17:37
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bird with big dick posted:Was this a joke It would be valid for my car (FIAT Multiair system), but I stupidly responded before realizing it's a fairly unique system and was a dumb idea for anyone else. I decided to just take the L and shut up.
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Nov 19, 2022 18:11
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Safety Dance posted:Who makes a good set of ramps for working under a car these days? I don't remember who makes mine but tbh I think just take a look online and see what's on sale and pick up something that meets your needs. I will say that mine have a sort of dip that the wheels sit in and it makes it much easier to tell when the car is properly on the ramps if you're doing this by yourself. So long as you aren't overloading them (there will be a weight limit on the box they come in) you don't have to worry about them failing. I'm guessing they're mostly all rated for half of what they can actually hold, for safety reasons.
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Nov 19, 2022 20:17
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Single-piece stamped steel, if they still make them that way. E: Amazon sells them for under $100
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Nov 20, 2022 02:59
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