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The Voice of Labor posted:why is the frame in this thread that marxism somehow failed or is wrong? 50% of the world was communist within living memory, latin america's gonna be red p' soon, china's the most powerful country on the planet and vietnam and cuba have proven themselves invincible against overwhelming odds. why is Latin America going red soon? seems like every time they do some death squads show up to crush it
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Nov 16, 2022 20:44
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China has not been actually Marxist since the late 70's. China doesn't even call themselves Marxist anymore. They officially changed the state ideology to "Socialism with Chinese characteristics" and came out against the Soviet Union and classical Marxism because they had "ossified ideologies" and didn't recognize that "the private economy was a needed complement to the socialist economy." There isn't anywhere in Latin America right now you could call an actual Marxist government outside of Cuba. Leon Trotsky 2012 has issued a correction as of 20:54 on Nov 16, 2022 |
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Nov 16, 2022 20:51
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don't you have a bullshit loan forgiveness scam to peddle, preferably somewhere else?
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Nov 16, 2022 20:57
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Ardennes posted:Even neoclassical economists have admitted that extremely high wealth economy is causing issues. I think it is easy for the proletarian revolution to not happen and everything to be hosed and unworkable at the same time. Communism is cope
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Nov 16, 2022 21:00
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Zodium posted:I don't have the wherewithal to respond properly today, but just to be clear, I wasn't trying to set that frame at all, I was only talking about the western marxism I have been exposed to and my personal struggle to make predictions with it. I wasn't really addressing you specifically. but if the length of the working day in prosperous countries is now 8 hours instead of 12 hours and literacy rates and life expectancy and general quality of life stuff is exponentially better than it was 150 years ago and the main motive force behind those improvements is communism, it's weird to me that people want to say "marx underestimated the amount of poo poo people are willing to eat before they fight back" as far as predicitve powers, if you take a quarterly earning and expense statement from a corporation and plug those numbers into a surplus labor formula, it will tell you down to a second how much time the employees of that company spend working for themselves and how much time they spend working for the man. that's a hidden fact of the world made visible by the application of reason. it's the same as taking a gravitational formula, plugging in masses and distances and having the end result match up with obsereved orbital eccentricities. in the later case the hypothesized invisible force, gravity, is revealed, in the former, the hypothesized invisible force, capiltalistic vampirism, is revealed. predicitve power doesn't really seem like the right term to apply to the process, but in both cases you're doing the same thing
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Nov 16, 2022 21:03
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MLSM posted:why is Latin America going red soon? seems like every time they do some death squads show up to crush it the paper tiger gets a little soggier every day. 40 years ago 'merica couldn't put down vietnam, now it can't even coup venezuela
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Nov 16, 2022 21:06
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:China has not been actually Marxist since the late 70's. Yes they do you moron Xi and the politburo were talking about Marx all day long at the latest party congress, just do like 5 minutes of reading before posting
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Nov 16, 2022 21:12
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:China has not been actually Marxist since the late 70's. you are so loving stupid do not post here
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Nov 16, 2022 21:18
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MLSM posted:Yes they do you moron North Korea calls themselves a Republic. Ideologically speaking, if you are saying that "a private market economy is necessary," "we do not believe that the market economy is synonymous with capitalism or that planning is synonymous with socialism," and "traditional Marxism and the USSR failed because they had stagnant ideologies and implemented failed policies like the collectivization of agriculture and restricting private property too severely," then you aren't a classical Marxist. Classical Marxism also thought that a socialist revolution would not be possible in a less advanced country like China, so China obviously has a strong interest in pointing out that classical Marxism was wrong in that analysis.
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Nov 16, 2022 21:18
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Relevant Tangent posted:everyone hates sinema and she's losing her primary by forty If you think the DSCC isn't going to protect a sitting incumbent in her primary, lol Same with Manchin I have plenty of hate for liberals both real and imagined since the fuckin' cowards have abdicated any actual whipping of the party, hence why we still have both Manchin and Sinema
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Nov 16, 2022 21:25
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Nov 16, 2022 21:26
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ex post facho posted:If you think the DSCC isn't going to protect a sitting incumbent in her primary, lol not true, pelosi whipped AOC back into line on that israeli weapons funding bill
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Nov 16, 2022 21:27
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the bitcoin of weed posted:you are so loving stupid do not post here
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Nov 16, 2022 21:28
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:China has not been actually Marxist since the late 70's. jesus christ
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Nov 16, 2022 21:33
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I think if you held the vote now Sinema would lose but that vote is going to have months (years?) of ads and so many fears stoked and so many people shamed, that she's going to win, especially when even most of the blue Arizonans are not actually that far from her...and Arizona has open primaries too.
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Nov 16, 2022 21:38
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just thinking back on these things https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1...ingawful.com%2F and yeah the only dems that get whipped are the progressive Caucus https://twitter.com/JoshNBCNews/sta...ingawful.com%2F Mrs. Goated with the Juggs whipped Gottheimer, sorta. But the progressive caucus destroyed their credibility by taking a hostage and then never following through
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Nov 16, 2022 21:42
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:North Korea calls themselves a Republic. So stupid it isn't worth engaging with but these two points in particular make me lol
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Nov 16, 2022 21:51
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Very cool that some dipshit with a blue star can come in here and just spam factually incorrect bullshit about something they obviously know nothing about.
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Nov 16, 2022 21:56
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:China has not been actually Marxist since the late 70's. chain probe this tedious nerd
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Nov 16, 2022 22:00
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cenotaph posted:Very cool that some dipshit with a blue star can come in here and just spam factually incorrect bullshit about something they obviously know nothing about. Why he's not being relentlessly chainprobed for it is beyond my understanding
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Nov 16, 2022 22:05
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Samuel Glompers posted:So stupid it isn't worth engaging with but these two points in particular make me lol Is Chinese socialism just a synonym for classical Marxism? Or is it a different thing? Classical Marxists: Famously say they are developing a new theory distinct from classical Marxism. quote:The Chinese version of Dialectical Materialism, as envisioned by Mao Zedong, is independent from Stalinist and traditional Marxist ideology. China has adapted Marxism into a new paradigm adapted to Chinese circumstances and specific time periods. Therefore, Chinese socialism is a product of scientific socialism that arose out of necessity because the conditions envisaged by Marx for reaching the socialist stage of development did not yet exist in China. quote:Since the end of the Cultural Revolution in 1976, China has all but abandoned the tenets of classical marxism, including collective ownership of the means of production. Nowadays, just about everything is at least partly privatized. Whereas the Chinese Communist Party under Chairman Mao owned every factory and farm in the nation, the economy is now a patchwork of public and private businesses. Classical Marxists: Famously do not believe in Marx's labor theory of value. quote:It has become evident that the Marxist theory of the law of value—understood as the expression of the labor theory of value—can not serve as the basis of China's pricing system. Marx never intended his theory of law of value to work "as an expression of 'concretized labor time." Marx's notion of "prices of production" was meaningless to the Soviet-styled planned economies since price formations were according to Marx established by markets. The primary fault with the Soviet interpretation was that they tried to calibrate prices without a competitive market since according to Marx competitive markets allowed for an equilibrium of profit rates which led to an increase in the prices of production. Classical Marxists: Famously argue that a private market-based economy is necessary. quote:Certain policies and system characteristics—such as commodity production for the market, the existence of a private sector and the reliance of the profit motive in enterprise management can exist within Chinese communism. The existence and growth of private ownership does not necessarily undermine socialism or promote capitalism in China. quote:Planning and market forces are not the essential difference between socialism and capitalism. A planned economy is not the definition of socialism, because there is planning under capitalism; the market economy happens under socialism, too. Planning and market forces are both ways of controlling economic activity. Classical Marxists: Famously argue that classical Marxist analysis is wrong. quote:Classical Marxism had argued that a socialist revolution would only take place in advanced capitalist societies and its success would signal the transition from a capitalist commodity-based economy to a "product economy" in which goods would be distributed for people's need and not for profit. If because of a lack of a coherent explanation in the chance of failure this revolution did not occur, the revolutionaries would be forced to take over the responsibilities of the bourgeoisie. Chinese communists are thus looking for a new Marxist theory of development.
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Nov 16, 2022 22:07
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didn't read
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Nov 16, 2022 22:08
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please stop posting walls of text unrelated to the topic, i.e the democrats are a weakshit party that accomplishes nothing, thank you 👏
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Nov 16, 2022 22:10
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Lib and let die posted:didn't read
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Nov 16, 2022 22:11
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nice this loser is in another thread pretending to be an expert on something else bad enough he shits up the economics thread
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Nov 16, 2022 22:11
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Lib and let die posted:Why he's not being relentlessly chainprobed for it is beyond my understanding the much better answer is to just allowed mods to be put on the ignore list. no reason to give potential idiots power over who posts, much better to have individual control over who gets to make posts you have to read
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Nov 16, 2022 22:30
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:China has not been actually Marxist since the late 70's. lmao
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Nov 16, 2022 22:30
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The Voice of Labor posted:the much better answer is to just allowed mods to be put on the ignore list. no reason to give potential idiots power over who posts, much better to have individual control over who gets to make posts you have to read
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Nov 16, 2022 22:42
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:China has not been actually Marxist since the late 70's. Dialectical Materialism Is the Worldview and Methodology of Chinese Communists By Xi Xinping
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Nov 16, 2022 22:44
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DACK FAYDEN posted:I am convinced this would break radium code somehow Radium code? Yes! Astral code? Time has yet to tell but signs so far point to "probably not, and if it did they'd fix it in dev before pushing to prod" 🤞
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Nov 16, 2022 22:46
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DACK FAYDEN posted:I am convinced this would break radium code somehow It would. I asked when someone else asked about it and Astral says it would break the forum. They did say they are planning to redo mod accounts and implement a bunch of changes like allowing people to ignore them, redoing the mod queue, making mods able to give 6ers forum wide, and redoing how platinum and archives are granted. But, they don't know when it will be done.
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Nov 16, 2022 22:47
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:making mods able to give 6ers forum wide there's the stumbling block. that's such a terrible idea even god and nature will conspire to prevent it from being realized
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Nov 16, 2022 22:49
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The Voice of Labor posted:there's the stumbling block. that's such a terrible idea even god and nature will conspire to prevent it from being realized I can't wait, it's gonna be amazing lmao
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Nov 16, 2022 22:51
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:I can't wait, it's gonna be amazing lmao I think it is basically out of necessity (and because the original code didn't even have a real mod status, so you had to be enabled mod/IK for specific forums or threads) because we have at least 6 sub-forums with no moderators and another 4 or 5 with only one mod or just an admin covering as mod. So, a bunch of reports just go into a void and never get seen. Plus, it will be a fun honeypot to see who can't resist abusing it and getting their buttons taken away.
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Nov 16, 2022 23:06
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china owns they have communism and lambos
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Nov 16, 2022 23:08
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:It would. I asked when someone else asked about it and Astral says it would break the forum.
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Nov 16, 2022 23:15
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Real hurthling! posted:china owns they have communism and lambos I went to China and it was pretty cool, but I bought a set of dumplings from a street vendor and one of them had cardboard inside giving it shape instead of meat. I was told that is fairly commonly done by street vendors and should always poke my food first. Also, you are supposed to carry around your own toilet paper because most public toilets don't provide them. Fun thing to learn the first time you had to go! The squat toilets are a weird design and I have no idea why they use them:  The toilets also all have a star rating rating system to know how good they are:  A very useful feature, but I couldn't really tell the difference between star ratings. Xian and Beijing are super pretty (except for the smog), the terra cotta army is dope, and food/alcohol was dirt cheap. Hotpot restaurants are amazing and kind of a bummer they don't really have them at the same tier (with the conveyor belts and special tables) in the U.S. Open-air sidecars > Uber.
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Nov 16, 2022 23:16
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Hahah, look at all these poors with their funny toilets and cardboard food!
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Nov 16, 2022 23:27
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Hahah, look at all these poors with their funny toilets and cardboard food! I'm guessing you haven't been to Beijing because it is not poor at all. A giant bronze plaque giving the toilet an official 3-star rating is funny. I never tried a 4-star toilet, but I couldn't really tell the difference between a 2-star toilet and a 3-star.
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Nov 16, 2022 23:35
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The Voice of Labor posted:the much better answer is to just allowed mods to be put on the ignore list. no reason to give potential idiots power over who posts, much better to have individual control over who gets to make posts you have to read he's on mine and it screws things up so that i can't take anyone else off without him too lol
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Nov 16, 2022 23:38
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