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Today it finally got cold enough for me to turn off the mini splits and turn on the boiler. And it won't fire up. I'm guessing there's no "1 weird trick" to fixing a 60 year old boiler, but just in case there is, any suggestions? There's electricity going to it, and my non-contact voltage tester tells me the lines are active. The thermostat appears to be functioning, it makes a "clicking" sound like a relay triggering when I turn it off. Everything worked fine last winter, the only change is that we had a new gas meter installed which necessitated some new pipe inside. The gas company person said he relit the pilot on the water heater and the boiler. When I look inside the boiler I see a pilot light going, and the water inside is warm. But for whatever reason, it's not going into "light all the burners" mode to really heat up the water. I'll probably call the heating company later today of it doesn't miraculously start working on its own, but in the mean time any suggestions for things I could look at?
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Nov 14, 2022 17:09
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I don't have a boiler in my house but I work on industrial heaters frequently at work and anytime new fuel lines are installed, there is always air in there that needs to be displaced. It might take a dozen or more tries for the gas to push the air out and finally light off. No idea if that is helpful in your case or if HVAC techs bleed off the air before turning it over to the homeowner.
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Nov 14, 2022 19:44
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I called my go-to HVAC company, they sent a guy who opened it up and informed me they no longer work on steam boilers, but he poked at it a little bit and discovered the relay was bad. The office should have enquired if it was steam or hot water before they sent him, so he didn't charge me, and he gave me a few recommendations for who to call. Then again, maybe now that I know I could just replace the relay myself? It's just a little battery-looking box with wires going in and wires going out. But when he short-circuited two contacts on the relay, the burners immediately fired up, so the mechanicals (and the gas) are still fine, just the electrical.
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Nov 14, 2022 20:04
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The PO of my house installed a ductless minisplit downstairs and a ducted unit upstairs, running off the same outside condenser. It does AC and heat just fine, but how do I know when it’s too cold to use the heat pump? I have an oil boiler with baseboard heat which is what was used prior to the minisplit getting installed. Today it was 32 degrees and the heat pump still appeared to work fine. As an add on question, when/if it gets too cold for the minisplit, is it possible to heat the house using oil heat to say, 65 degrees, and then the minisplit to heat the rest (say an ambient temp of 68 degrees)? I’m guessing no but figured I’d ask.  Here’s some info I found googling:  So does that mean it will work all the way down to 5 degrees Fahrenheit and then below that I need to use oil? nwin fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Nov 14, 2022 |
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Nov 14, 2022 22:38
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It may not be "efficient" to use it for heat at that low of a temperature. My Mitsubishi has a rating for how low cold it can be for it to still heat at full efficiency, but my guess is that 5 degree rating is not at maximum efficiency. So at that temperature, depending on electric and oil prices, it might be better to switch to oil at a different temperature (and I have no idea how you might estimate that tipping point yourself, if anyone knows I'd like to know as well!) E: missed that you also have a Mitsubishi, I think the Z in the model name means you've got hyper heat, which means it can still be efficient at lower temps)
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Nov 14, 2022 23:04
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To answer your other question - No, you need somewhere to dump the "cold" from your house. Your outdoor unit stops exchanging heat at 5F and becomes a very expensive to operate fan at that moment. As for where you should change over? If it's reliably getting close to 5F (or even 10-15F) overnight I would use the boiler.
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Nov 14, 2022 23:08
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If I'm reading the spec sheet right on that Mitsu heat pump, the rated capacity of it is cut almost in half when outdoor temps are 17 degrees. At 47 degrees it'll give you 41-45K Btu/h at 17, its down to 23-24K Btu/h and I'm guessing it quickly drops as it approaches 5 degrees. There's a bunch of variables to consider with your house and how much heat it needs, but at 17 degrees you're getting half the heat you get from the system at 47 degrees for the same amount of electricity. Cost of electricity, oil, btu output, all that fun stuff should be considered. I have no idea because I live in South Texas. I use my heat like 3 times a year and I have cheap natural gas furnaces.
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Nov 14, 2022 23:24
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Not sure if this is the best thread, but it is HVAC related. I'm looking into getting a whole house humidifier, got a quote from the one company that responded for ~$1400. The units themselves cost $2-300, and just from looking at the instructions and watching some youtubes they don't look too hard to install. I'm a pretty new homeowner and not overly experienced in DIYing stuff, but it doesn't look too bad. Cut a couple of holes in the ducting, connect water, wire. Cutting holes in the ducting looks like the hardest part to me, since it would require some sort of tool that I don't have, but I can buy (any recommendations would be nice). Am I overlooking anything and this is a terrible idea? Thinking about getting a Honeywell HE360.
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Nov 18, 2022 17:36
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I'm planning on installing an HE360 on Sunday, as well. The hardest part will likely be the plumbing connection, because I believe the 360 prefers a hot/warm water feed vs cold, so I'll have to tap the hot output from the water heater across the room, rather than the main pex manifold next to the furnace. But otherwise as long as you can follow the wiring instructions and accurately cut the hole in the supply trunk, it shouldn't be too difficult.
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Nov 19, 2022 05:40
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PitViper posted:I'm planning on installing an HE360 on Sunday, as well. The hardest part will likely be the plumbing connection, because I believe the 360 prefers a hot/warm water feed vs cold, so I'll have to tap the hot output from the water heater across the room, rather than the main pex manifold next to the furnace.  My water heater is right next to the furnace so that shouldn't be too hard for me. I have an electrical background so I'm less worried about wiring, the accurate cutout is my main concern at this point.
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Nov 19, 2022 07:15
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If anyone has a Rheem with their cloud connected features, you might want to pay attention: https://twitter.com/klinquist/status/1593996134103453696 MQTT is a message queueing protocol, kinda sorta IRC for gadget control traffic and data reports, used in a lot of connected devices. At the moment it seems like it's just a data leak, but even if so it's a strong indicator of the system not being well designed from a security/privacy standpoint. wolrah fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Nov 19, 2022 |
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Nov 19, 2022 18:07
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Rheem can't even get the heating part of their water heaters right. Like hell I'd ever trust them with anything connected to the net.
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Nov 19, 2022 18:21
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FISHMANPET posted:I called my go-to HVAC company, they sent a guy who opened it up and informed me they no longer work on steam boilers, but he poked at it a little bit and discovered the relay was bad. The office should have enquired if it was steam or hot water before they sent him, so he didn't charge me, and he gave me a few recommendations for who to call. Then again, maybe now that I know I could just replace the relay myself? It's just a little battery-looking box with wires going in and wires going out. But when he short-circuited two contacts on the relay, the burners immediately fired up, so the mechanicals (and the gas) are still fine, just the electrical. Had a company that services old steam boilers come out today, it turns out it wasn't at all electrical. There's a pressure switch that connects to the relay/gas valve, to keep it from firing if there's too much water pressure. The pipe that connects that to the water in the system is a pigtail pipe, and it had become clogged and was corroding, so the pressure sensor wasn't getting the right info and was sending a bad signal to the relay. He had one on the truck so he was able to quickly swap it out and we're back in business. The
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Nov 21, 2022 18:50
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Yeah steam in general is its own thing in the heating world, and its getting more rare as most new builds are hydronic unless you have some specific industrial need for it. Good money in fixing it, as long as you can (literally) take the heat.
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Nov 22, 2022 00:08
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Speaking of steam, there's a duplex with steam radiators (oil heated) on the bottom floor, and the more recently renovated top floor has central air (the vents blow to the first floor for air conditioning and contribute some natural gas heat, but not enough to heat the whole place). The 65K BTU boiler in the basement cracked, and plumber told me $10k to replace it. I asked about upgrading the upstairs system to just handle all the heating (letting me chuck the boiler, oil tank, and all radiators to to save space and simplify to a single thermostat) and he doubted the vents are sufficiently designed/sized correctly to handle it. Should I scrap that idea? Any other route I'm not thinking of?
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Nov 23, 2022 01:47
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Does the plumber do forced air setups or would he lose the job if you went with that?
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Nov 23, 2022 02:46
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He works solo so I assume that he can do any of it.
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Nov 23, 2022 04:06
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Well, is he a plumber or an HVAC guy? A plumber might not deal with vents and forced air is what I'm saying.
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Nov 23, 2022 15:20
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Have any of you ever tried to encapsulate a balanced ventilation unit inside a cabinet to reduce the sound? I have recently moved into a new build. Its quite small and very well insulated. The ventilation seems to be working well. But the sound from the ventilation unit is driving me insane. I cant turn it off or down unless i want to get mold. I could build new soundproof walls around the room but that is pointless because i have to leave a generous opening at the bottom of the door for proper air flow. So my only option is to build a heavy cabinet made of really thick wood and mineral wool plate around the ventilation unit fixed. But i am worried that i am risking overheating or other issues.
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Dec 2, 2022 19:26
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This is sort of HVAC, right? It's heating! I have two of these floor heater things in the full bathrooms in my house. I installed a home energy monitor last week and am now on the warpath to find and eliminate needless uses of electricity. These two things definitely qualify, because they slurp down 300W each to warm the floor for the bathrooms all the time when nobody's around. The currently installed ones are extremely basic and don't have any capability to schedule times, so I want to remove and replace them with newer more advanced ones. As somebody who is comfortable with basic home electrical stuff (replacing receptacles and such), how difficult should I expect this to be?
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Dec 6, 2022 14:58
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chutwig posted:This is sort of HVAC, right? It's heating! Looks pretty easy to replace. I just googled "Nuheat programmable thermostat" and the quick start guide makes it look like it's just a few pairs of wires. Looks like it'll take 10 minutes or so. According to the docs the wiring for the existing thermostat and the smart/programmable one is the same. In fact it looks like the base of them are the same, you might be able to just put a new faceplate/thermostat on the existing base and not even touch the wiring. skipdogg fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Dec 6, 2022 |
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Dec 6, 2022 16:07
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Please bear with me for the potentially long post! I'm going through some treatment at home which gives me a lot of time to troubleshoot and maybe gather too much info: My nest thermostat has started giving me an Error, (no power to RH wire) shortly after we turn the heat on, and I'm trying to figure out what's normal operation, and what's a problem. Naturally our home warranty company hired the worst rated contractor in the county to come look at it in a couple weeks so I'm just thinking about it while we wait. Here's the standard cycle that happens on the natural gas furnace when we turn the heater on: 1) Burners kick on, then shortly after the blower turns on 2) everything runs fine for maybe 5 minutes, at which point there's a click, the burners immediately shut off and the thermostat gives the no power to RH wire error, but the blower keeps running. After another minute the thermostat RH wire error goes away. 3) Maybe 5 minutes later, there's another click and the burners turn back on, and the cycle repeats (after so many minutes the burners shut off and I get the error on the thermostat). We figured something is wrong with our furnace and called home warranty, but as I started running through the furnace operations, I wondered if maybe it was working normally and the error is just a result of the normal process. What i'm wondering is after the buners turn on, then the blower turns on once the heat exchanger reaches a certain temperature. At some point, the burners kick off, and I'm wondering if the burners are just shutting off because the heat exchanger/plenum has reached it's max temp, and this results in cutting power to the RH wire and giving me the error. Not sure why my RH wire power error goes away a minute later, but the blower keeps blowing which cools the heat exchanger and once it's cooled below a certain temp the burners kick back on. I can't find for certain if the furnace turning off the burners (or tripping the high limit) would cut power to the RH wire. I'm also not sure if this cycling of the burners turning on and off is normal, or if the furnace is expected to be finely tuned to the point that the temp/high limit shouldn't ever be tripped and the burners, air flow, etc. all keep the heat exchanger at that perfect middle temp.
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Dec 11, 2022 19:18
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That is definitely not normal operation. Something is not wired correctly, or you are hitting a safety limit
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Dec 11, 2022 19:55
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MRC48B posted:That is definitely not normal operation. Something is not wired correctly, or you are hitting a safety limit Thanks. Thinking about it more, I read that the furnace would shut down if a safety limit was tripped, and was confused because the blower was still running and thought that furnace shutting off would be everything; I didn't think about just the burners as the furnace shutting off.
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Dec 11, 2022 20:50
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That sounds very much like when our furnace was hitting the thermal limit switch. Output is too hot, so the control board shuts off everything except the blower to cool things down, and restarts after either the temperature comes down or after a preset time. Our installers came back out and adjusted something, since this was the first heating season after a new furnace install.
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Dec 11, 2022 21:12
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PitViper posted:That sounds very much like when our furnace was hitting the thermal limit switch. Output is too hot, so the control board shuts off everything except the blower to cool things down, and restarts after either the temperature comes down or after a preset time. Our installers came back out and adjusted something, since this was the first heating season after a new furnace install. MRC48B posted:That is definitely not normal operation. Something is not wired correctly, or you are hitting a safety limit Looks like you're all right. Probably surprising no one here, turns out there's an error LED similar to my computer motherboard. I pulled the cover off and sat and watched and when the burners shut off it gives code for "Limit Circuit Fault" which also says blower will run for 4 minutes until open switch remakes, whichever is longer. Flame rollout switch requires manual reset (which I definitely didn't do), so looks like it's a limit switch. It's a brand new filter so I don't think it's low airflow, but I'll let the techs figure it out when they get here. PageMaster fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Dec 11, 2022 |
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Dec 11, 2022 22:11
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Try pulling the filter to verify that it's not that. Running it for longer than it takes to fault without it won't harm anything. Otherwise turn on your fan only and see if you have good flow at all of your registers. Inducer motor sounds fine and is moving well? Also for the purpose of repair you can absolutely press the reset button to try again. It will just fault again and that's OK. It's not like you're smelling smoke or having monoxide alarms going off.
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Dec 11, 2022 23:14
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H110Hawk posted:Try pulling the filter to verify that it's not that. Running it for longer than it takes to fault without it won't harm anything. Otherwise turn on your fan only and see if you have good flow at all of your registers. Inducer motor sounds fine and is moving well? Thanks! Flow at the registers is perfectly fine, and I don't see any difference with and without a filter. Furnace has been running for 8 minutes now without cutting out, so it might be possible the filter is restricting airflow enough to not cool the heat exhchanger maybe, though it worked all last year just fine so not sure what changed this year. Assuming it is the filter, I'm not sure what the fix is since we do definitely still want a filter. Not sure what the inducer motor is, either, but I don't see anything else without needing to take another panel off so I'll ask. There is a clicking noise while the blowers are out but no clue what that would be, either. Edit: on a whim I tried using another filter; they're roughly the same rating (tho one is FPR, one is MPR, one is MERV), but was able to run 15 minutes with no problems before hitting the thermostat temp, so I guess that's the answer. The "bad" filter, despite being brand new and the "equivalent" rating, was of a different material, like a thick fuzzy fabric almostlike cotton, listed at FPR 9 ; other filter I tried is a much thinner stiffer "paper," and listed at MERV 12, but for whatever reason it does seem to eliminate the issue . Warranty contractor called and scheduled for tomorrow, of course, so not sure how that's going to go. PageMaster fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Dec 12, 2022 |
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Dec 11, 2022 23:58
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Yeah, our furnace guy blamed the filter (MERV 7 from Nordic Pure vs the spun fiberglass filter that was in there to start). But while digging through our furnace manual, the size filter they built the supply duct around seems like it's the bare minimum area for any of the air flow rates, so I'm sure even a slightly more restrictive filter was enough to cause an airflow issue. My list for next spring includes redoing the supply duct to accommodate something like a 16x25x4 filter or larger, because with 3 people, 3 cats, and a dog, our filter catches plenty of dust in it before the monthly change.
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Dec 12, 2022 03:23
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PitViper posted:My list for next spring includes redoing the supply duct to accommodate something like a 16x25x4 filter or larger, because with 3 people, 3 cats, and a dog, our filter catches plenty of dust in it before the monthly change. I had this done and have no regrets. We run MERV 13 filters and it catches everything we care about. It's really helped with our indoor air quality.
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Dec 12, 2022 03:50
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PitViper posted:Yeah, our furnace guy blamed the filter (MERV 7 from Nordic Pure vs the spun fiberglass filter that was in there to start). But while digging through our furnace manual, the size filter they built the supply duct around seems like it's the bare minimum area for any of the air flow rates, so I'm sure even a slightly more restrictive filter was enough to cause an airflow issue. Would love a 2x or 4" filter bay, but I think that would require a new furnace install since our filter installs in the bottom slot of the blower housing. Also for anyone who may have similar issues, I did a bunch more research now that I knew what to focus on. It turns out, specific to 3m, their merv 13 filters actually have the lowest pressure drop of all their others, including lower Merv rated ones. The logic behind this is that it has a ridiculously larger number of pleats, therefore a lot more surface area for air to go through. I compared my old filter and it had much fewer pleats despite having a different material and being advertised as electrostatic. I'm already stuck with a service call fee so the warranty tech will still take a look I guess and make sure everything else looks good, and I imagine will tell me to just put in a cheap Merv 7 filter or something and be done with it, but at least I know I don't have to give up the higher ratings (especially once wildfire season and allergies start). I don't know if I'm more relieved or embarrassed this was the issue, but without the input here I never would have even considered if because it was too simple.
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Dec 12, 2022 06:13
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The nordic pure ones you want to make sure you get the minipleated ones, which are as pleated or more than the 3m ones. I think the 3m ones rely heavily on static electricity to meet their MERV ratings.
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Dec 12, 2022 06:20
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H110Hawk posted:The nordic pure ones you want to make sure you get the minipleated ones, which are as pleated or more than the 3m ones. I think the 3m ones rely heavily on static electricity to meet their MERV ratings. I noticed that on the Nordic pure specs they list the material type as "Electrostatically Charged Synthetic Pleated Media," is that better or worse than non electrostat? Is one preferred?
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Dec 12, 2022 06:35
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PageMaster posted:I noticed that on the Nordic pure specs they list the material type as "Electrostatically Charged Synthetic Pleated Media," is that better or worse than non electrostat? Is one preferred? I don't know
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Dec 12, 2022 07:02
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H110Hawk posted:I don't know Thanks for all the help! Heaters been running 2 hours and cancelled the service call. PageMaster fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Dec 12, 2022 |
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Dec 12, 2022 17:38
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I don't know if this is the best thread but I'm having issues with a gas fireplace insert. Majestic GBR36, natural gas fed. Started going out randomly a couple years ago, pilot would always stay lit. Sometimes it would run for 15 minutes, sometimes over an hour. If I leave the switch on eventually it will fire up again. Plenty of gas pressure, have replaced both the thermocouple and thermopile even though the voltage readings were within reasonable limits. I believe I have narrowed it down to a bad/dying thermodisk cutting off the gas supply. The problem is I have no idea where it's at or if I'll be able to get to it. The unit is installed into a corner and the two leads run out the side of the box and to god knows where. My guess is that it's on top of the metal box sensing the temperature and shutting things down if it gets too hot. The problem is I can't get to it to even test it without cutting into the dryway from somewhere behind it. There's a whole mantle with tile all around the insert. I bypassed the thermodisk leads and wired it like a normal system that doesn't have a thermodisk and it runs fine. The heat opens up the vent on top, no CO issues detected. So I'm wondering if I can just leave it bypassed and not gut my walls? Edit: Should have mentioned I haven't checked the chimney from the roof yet, obviously I want to make sure there's no blockage causing it to overheat. ChesterJT fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Dec 15, 2022 |
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Dec 15, 2022 20:11
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If you do have a problem that results in injury to persons or property, your insurance will tell you to pound sand, because you intentionally bypassed a safety device. I would recommend you buy some drywall mud and start cutting holes.
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Dec 15, 2022 20:23
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ChesterJT posted:The heat opens up the vent on top, no CO issues detected. So I'm wondering if I can just leave it bypassed and not gut my walls? Nope. Now you have a smoking gun to resolve it and the stroke of luck to only need to cut drywall. Fix it correctly.
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Dec 15, 2022 20:34
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Chimney is clear. Got the multimeter on the disk leads and the readings are all hosed so it's definitely the disk. Luckily I can access the back through the laundry room wall so I won't have to tear up a kitchen wall on the other side. Any recommendations for a good place to start? I don't know if there's a standard spot for these things, and googling on stuff like this just gives me a million "check your thermopile/coupler!" links and videos. This isn't my exact fire place but the wires come out of the left side and go up, that's about all I can say. It would have to be attached to the box itself right? No chance it would be on the vent pipe going up to the roof?
ChesterJT fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Dec 15, 2022 |
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Dec 15, 2022 22:01
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| # ? May 16, 2024 16:15 |
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ChesterJT posted:Any recommendations for a good place to start? I don't know if there's a standard spot for these things Look for the cut sheet and/or service information for the exact model of insert. You shouldn't have to guess. If you can't find it online call them. And since it's in your laundry room consider making your life easy and installing an access panel (https://www.homedepot.com/b/Plumbing-Plumbing-Accessories-Access-Panels/N-5yc1vZbqkz).
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Dec 15, 2022 22:06
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