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Fister Roboto posted:Yeah, on my first attempt for that as Sweden, my first journal entry was to build and fully staff a level 3 ranch on Gotland. Gotland has like 500 people at the start. iirc it's actually asking for it in Gotaland, which is the populated, and totally not confusingly named state directly adjacent to Gotland
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Nov 20, 2022 20:09
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500 people but 50000 hedgehogs
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Nov 20, 2022 20:23
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One thing to note about revolutions - IGs will threaten a revolution once their radicalism goes above 50. They can't actually trigger the revolution until the radicalism goes above 100 though - the revolution progress is capped at the radicalism of the highest issue. Granted, that means you have to be very, very careful about keeping their opinion high and also keep your # of radicals low. The latter is tricky though, because unpopular law changes create more radicals, so if the law change drags on long enough or the country is unstable enough, you're going to have to cancel the law change or deal with a war.
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Nov 20, 2022 20:26
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Bold Robot posted:Will the AI ever agree to a white peace if a war goes on long enough? I'm stuck in a war where I don't have a land border with the other side anymore. I can't pull off a naval invasion because I don't have enough flotillas - my naval bases are not hiring for reasons that are not super clear to me (labor is available). We've been stuck at 0-0 for a year or two now and I want to end this, but no way am I gonna pay them reparations. I ran into this earlier and apparently it's deliberate: Naval Bases hire slowly to simulate new ship construction, although I don't think it's explicitly mentioned. Higher tier naval theory PMs increase the training rate, but it's still quite slow.
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Nov 20, 2022 20:49
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buglord posted:When building an economy, should I be focusing on getting things as not-expensive as possible for the lowest class and working upwards, or someplace else? it's complicated - the important parts of manufacturing goods are #1: to have enough for manufacturing inputs (this is why you always prioritize this and never start anything that won't have sufficient inputs either domestically or imported) #2. for them to be profitable to manufacture (directly related to #1) #3 for them to be affordable for the pops who want them The issue is as you scale up production and drop prices, you will get more exports as your product will be cheaper than other country's domestic production. especially if you're tied into a country with enormous demand and low supply - they will buy up what you make, increasing the domestic price for your pops who might now not be able to afford it likewise if you increase domestic price to ensure profitability, you can damage trade, causing a massive drop in demand, which drops prices, which can then lead to a spike in imports, causing a death spiral of unprofitable markets the key is really price stability and predictability - which you can try to improve through importing a quantity of something you also export, so that you have a flexible surplus of supply that's able to buffer sudden changes in demand, and by making sure to either secure an excess of inputs through trade or generate it yourself before switching production methods or building up a new industry that will need them this is why, as a basic example, it's really important to build up your lumber industry before you start manufacturing tools, before you start mining iron, before you start manufacturing iron tools, and before you switch your construction industry away from wood only if you try to skip that then you end up eating a shitload of debt from the increased cost of construction and have to do it anyways, at a higher price but when you do that you also have to be prepared for the sudden drop in wood demand, which is halved by the construction PM change, so you want to either start manufacturing extra paper, or luxury furniture with a switch to hardwood from some of your logging sites, for example sometimes it might be worth it to switch stuff to a less efficient method that uses more of something that's being overproduced or produces less of that thing, simply to keep prices from jumping around f.ex ill initially drop the tool usage off of my farms when I'm first scaling up my construction industries as prussia, and I'll drop the lead/sulfur mines down from to the lowest pm because demand isn't there to justify the cost of the tools there when I can put them towards better stuff, like making more tools, then increase them to support leaded glass manufacturing and explosives production it makes more sense if you look at the individual item prices as commodity-specific inflation/deflation - subsidize or scale back the production of stuff that's too cheap to profit, increase the availability of stuff that's too expensive to afford, but keep things in the middle one exception: if you manufacture a good entirely or primarily for export, e.g. luxury furniture as a minor, the pricier it is as long as it still gets exported, the better it generally is for you - but only while you need that tax money to fuel growth in other areas. once you do that and have your own domestic demand, you want it at average price The ideal end-market in this game is one where everyone is employed and your industries either all generate a small profit, or a small loss that's subsidized by the tax income from profitable industries, so that your pops needs are all affordable this post ended up being way longer than it was supposed to be, sorry! FirstnameLastname fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Nov 20, 2022 |
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Nov 20, 2022 20:52
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I turned Russia into the Feminist Anarchist Workers Utopia Soviet Union. Prior to pulling the lever that would start a civil war killing 2 million, I bankrolled all the great powers around me so they could owe me an obligation. They ended up doing all the dirty work for me by getting rid of the landowners and small business tyrants when the war popped off.
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Nov 20, 2022 20:54
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buglord posted:I turned Russia into the Feminist Anarchist Workers Utopia Soviet Union. Prior to pulling the lever that would start a civil war killing 2 million, I bankrolled all the great powers around me so they could owe me an obligation. They ended up doing all the dirty work for me by getting rid of the landowners and small business tyrants when the war popped off.
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Nov 20, 2022 20:58
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FirstnameLastname posted:iirc it's actually asking for it in Gotaland, which is the populated, and totally not confusingly named state directly adjacent to Gotland I feel like knowing the difference between Gotland and Götaland is novice-tier if you're a map-gazer in the swedish spreadsheet game community.
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Nov 20, 2022 21:11
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FirstnameLastname posted:this post ended up being way longer than it was supposed to be, sorry! No this is perfect, thank you!
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Nov 20, 2022 21:11
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A Buttery Pastry posted:I feel like this should result in all those great powers deciding that their obligations were towards the former non-radical government and either jump in on the "rebel" side or just do nothing. Or even just 'we will absolutely honor our obligations towards the legitimate government of Russia, as soon as you figure out what that is'.
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Nov 20, 2022 21:21
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this game needs a better model of corruption and crime than the tax efficiency and police institution models imo. better modeling of local socioeconomic variation in general. radicals should be different from criminals, radicals should come from political upset & cost of living, criminals should come from cost of living and local government bureaucratic and police presence. govt admins should have a police PM that has different costs/benefits, so you can have granular systems of law enforcement deployed where it makes sense. basically, a variation on the hearts of iron IV occupation law system so you can do something like have colonial police that are cheap and super effective on non-accepted cultures but ignore accepted ones and make minorities super angry over time, secret police that are effective at stopping radical growth but give a +% to the clout of whoever is powerful in that state, militarized police for poor & unhappy regions that gently caress up dissenters but also require a much bigger portion of your labor pool to run and dont reduce radical growth. stuff like that. this game has all of the necessary parts to model local decentralized governance under national government and it would be cool to have to fight against the local influence of various IGs in different areas, similarly to how you've gotta deal with rowdy vassals in ck3 through keeping them happy and maintaining a balance of power it could create a soft limiter to world-wide explosive economic growth happening in every country at once as well. i.e. The tsar of Russia suddenly industrializing across the country should threaten the control of local nobility, and carry enormous risk because of that, while focusing growth in a couple key cities should be much easier to control. rapidly expanding your country's territory or economic and industrial capability without centralizing control of it should be dangerous, and carry higher risks than slow and cautious centralization. like yeah you might be the number one arms manufacturer in the world, but if they're all being built in parts of the country that hate the national government, that should create problems. over-centralization should also carry risks from the amount of power wielded being concentrated in one location as well, it should alienate people who aren't in the seat of power and make your government more vulnerable to being toppled in a palace coup. there should really be more influencing where you locate a given industry besides throughput bonuses and infrastructure level. it's kiiiind of modeled through tax efficiency, but not in an interesting way imo. it should really matter more which people are being empowered and how densely concentrated that power is FirstnameLastname fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Nov 20, 2022 |
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Nov 20, 2022 21:32
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FirstnameLastname posted:this post ended up being way longer than it was supposed to be, sorry! One thing to add - consumption taxes can be a great way of balancing things out a bit when you have oversupply.
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Nov 20, 2022 21:32
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:One thing to add - consumption taxes can be a great way of balancing things out a bit when you have oversupply. they're also a great way to curb the influence of the church, pb and landholders - throw down a porcelain, luxury furniture/clothes, and wine consumption tax, tariff import of it for a double whammy and then suppress them and watch their clout drop by like, half, over a 3mo period. it's most effective early on, before youve developed a strong industrialist IG to worry about pissing off
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Nov 20, 2022 21:41
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I feel like knowing the difference between Gotland and Götaland is novice-tier if you're a map-gazer in the swedish spreadsheet game community. real talk one of my favorite things about being a huge mapgame nerd is meeting people who're immigrants and being able to ask them 'where in?' if they mention which country they moved from especially when it's a less commonly known location, people get stoked that someone in the U.S. has even heard of where they're from and it usually leads to a neat conversation. edit: unrelated but tripleposting is a sin i made a list of good mods, they should all work together, make sure the universal UI mod is down at the bottom of the mod load list, under all the other UI change ones. the list is sorted by author instead of alphabetically, so if you don't like the stuff someone made you can yank it all out easily with this group of mods & AI aggression set to high (suggested): you can see production method input/output changes wherever they're mentioned, the pondicherry treaty port (and all others) are just regular ports at game start, mousing over your GDP or radicals or whatnot will switch to a heatmap of it, people die of old age before hitting 120, wars happen, diplo UI is useable, welfare functions right, radicals make sense and don't just grow from swapping jobs at no SoL loss, infinite circular trade loops are fixed, you don't get into situations where 100% of your iron and tools are being imported by france, trade makes sense, russia doesn't colonize hokkaido right away and the US doesn't gently caress around in africa while leaving the midwest to mexico, you don't get awful us/canada border gore, there's enough oil output to support more than one small country, you can ignore when a country backs down and still go to war, and the UI is a million times better, the anatolian straight isn't located northeast of Malta in the middle of the Mediterranean so fronts in turkey/greece aren't busted, and more there's minimal change to gameplay mechanics and the only change to the map start-state is the anatolian straight being moved, the treaty port change is an event that fires at gamestart & the restrictions on naval colonization for the us/russia are modifiers that get removed with one of the later colonial techs so they stay where it makes sense, so there shouldn't be conflict with other mods it should work without issues, but who knows when someone will update their UI mod to add a bunch of throughput modifiers to every state or whatever and break everything, so if you notice one mod conflicting w/ another let me know, it's hard for me to do bugtesting because i don't have a SSD (lmao) so the game takes about 10 minutes to launch each time also if there's a mod that would fit well in this list lmk & ill add it https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2891293616 FirstnameLastname fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Nov 20, 2022 |
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Nov 20, 2022 22:27
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How do I switch my navy & civilian navy from clipper ships to steamers? I switched my shipyards to produce steamers and military production. I switched all my ports to industrial ports and all my naval bases to ironclads. However, the game is telling me that I have an import shortage of clipper ships and their price went through the roof. We shouldn't be using those anymore right? Do I wait a few months to let it sort out? Or civilians use them, so I still need to make clippers?
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Nov 20, 2022 23:55
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Check your fishing ports, and also any other nations in your customs union may still use clippers.
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Nov 20, 2022 23:57
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BigRoman posted:How do I switch my navy & civilian navy from clipper ships to steamers? The tooltip for clipper buy orders should tell you where the demand is.
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Nov 21, 2022 00:21
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The location of the "Form Germany" decision is very unintuitive. It's in the culture tab for those wondering, behind a couple sub menus. The way the game is right now it's much easier to form Germany as Austria than Prussia. Solving religious/ethnic tensions is way easier than a bunch of diplomatic plays that every European power can jump in on.
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Nov 21, 2022 00:45
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DJ_Mindboggler posted:The location of the "Form Germany" decision is very unintuitive. It's in the culture tab for those wondering, behind a couple sub menus. if you're Prussia and go straight for nationalism as your first tech and then improve relations and bankroll your neighbors, you can swallow them up and start the NGF by like, 1841 without a single fight or diplo play it's kind of ridiculous, because it lets you deficit spend far beyond what you can actually support, artificially inflating your prestige a ton compared to Austria, then as you swallow up the minors your GDP balloons enough to balance the cost out. it makes it feel gamey because it's behavior that I'd never do if i didn't know for sure that my neighbors would all voluntarily be annexed by my doing it
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Nov 21, 2022 01:14
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BigRoman posted:How do I switch my navy & civilian navy from clipper ships to steamers? Ports, whaling, and fishing all use clippers/steamers. Naval bases use manowars/ironclads. If you're still getting the notification and you're 100% sure you've fixed everything, don't worry about it. Someone in your market needs them. Not your problem most likely.
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Nov 21, 2022 01:14
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So what exactly do unemployed pops do except take welfare money? I build stuff to employ them but they don't seem to take any of the jobs.
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Nov 21, 2022 01:47
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FirstnameLastname posted:(a bunch of good mods) I don't know how well it works - you'd know far better than me - but there's this that claims to fix some of the overflow bugs.
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Nov 21, 2022 01:50
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TTBF posted:So what exactly do unemployed pops do except take welfare money? I build stuff to employ them but they don't seem to take any of the jobs. They'll continue to be unemployed if they cannot get paid enough based on their wealth level. If you have open jobs and still have unemployed people, you either need more qualifications or the jobs need to pay more. Welfare is probably a trap, honestly? Especially if you have a minimum wage, because that just makes it so that no jobs can pay what the unemployed people want, so they'll stay on welfare.
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Nov 21, 2022 01:50
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Yeah, welfare is absolutely a trap but I had a situation where every state in Japan except Kanto was going to rise up against me if I didn't pass it. I've got universities in every state although some aren't staffed. I'll raise the minimum wage and see if that makes a difference.
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Nov 21, 2022 01:55
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TTBF posted:So what exactly do unemployed pops do except take welfare money? I build stuff to employ them but they don't seem to take any of the jobs. There's a few reasons why pops remain unemployed even with jobs available: -They don't have the qualification to take the new job. Pops will gain qualifications over time so this is mostly a matter of waiting it out. Universities in the state will speed it up. There should be a warning tooltip in the building tab of the state window that will say if the state is short on qualified applicants for the open jobs. -The job is in another state and you have closed borders. This is unintuitive but border laws affect internal as well as external migration. Pops will move to other states to find work but they may be prevented from doing so by the migration laws. Even with open borders, it can take some time for them to decide to move. -The pop is discriminated against and the job is a type they can't promote to. Discriminated pops are barred from ever becoming certain jobs so even if they have the qualification they won't be able to fill the opening. -They are making more on unemployment than the job is offering in wages. This is a tricky one - welfare benefits are based on the average wage for the pop's profession, so if you have one state heavily industrialized, it can end up with a highly competitive local labour pool that drives up the average wage for the whole country. The only thing you can really do here is lower the social security institution so welfare payments end up being a lower percentage of the average wage, or just wait until the factories in question to raise wages to try to fill their vacancies (which they might not ever do if they would end up unprofitable because of it).
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Nov 21, 2022 02:00
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It feels like welfare's killed every run I've done as I just watch the costs spiral higher and higher until my economy collapses, it's one I'd avoid from now on.
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Nov 21, 2022 02:00
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Nov 21, 2022 02:19
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Welfare's worked fine for me, so long as I leave the minimum wage institution at its lowest investment level at the same time. I'm also typically a Council Republic with worker co-ops by the time I get welfare maxed, as well as being largely autarkic with goods production. I'm not sure how capital ownership interacts with strong welfare/min. wage. I've also had past playthroughs where I had more reliance on trading, and I suspect (but can't confirm) that overly-profitable trading centers may have caused wage-welfare spirals. I also suspect (again can't confirm) that unemployed pops don't count as 0 wage for calculating average wages and that losing low-wage workers may actually start ratcheting up the average wage. Specifically for having worker co-op-based businesses, I have noticed a very significant employment contrast between levels in the minimum wage institution. I suspect that businesses may be considering wages as a cost reducing profits of a business and therefore bad, while splitting profit dividends between more worker-owners being something that comes after costs are considered and therefore not regarded at all.
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Nov 21, 2022 02:22
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stumblebum posted:Welfare's worked fine for me, so long as I leave the minimum wage institution at its lowest investment level at the same time. I'm also typically a Council Republic with worker co-ops by the time I get welfare maxed, as well as being largely autarkic with goods production. I'm not sure how capital ownership interacts with strong welfare/min. wage. I've also had past playthroughs where I had more reliance on trading, and I suspect (but can't confirm) that overly-profitable trading centers may have caused wage-welfare spirals. I also suspect (again can't confirm) that unemployed pops don't count as 0 wage for calculating average wages and that losing low-wage workers may actually start ratcheting up the average wage. The main thing between wages/dividends is that dividends are just "whatever is left in the budget", while wages have to be paid even if the building didn't make enough to cover them. I'm not sure what factors actually cause wages to go down but it seems to be a thing that's not super flexible - wages can remain high even if a building is forced to downsize due to lack of profitability. I've had a lot of buildings that struggle to keep the lights on even when their input goods are super cheap and their output goods are very valuable, simply because wages have been driven up so high.
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Nov 21, 2022 02:27
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Welfare is definitely a trap that fucks up your economy hard and I'm pretty sure that everything sumblebum said is correct because you get into a weird situation where the welfare spiral starts shaving pops off, which shaves more workers off, which shaves more workers off. Also, don't raise minimum wage, just eliminate welfare. Fuckers can go back to being peasants for all I care. If you're a council republic minimum wage is basically a non-issue anyway and makes it harder to staff industries that you need to be cheap like grain or iron.
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Nov 21, 2022 02:31
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Vicky 3 was part of Wiz's nefarious plan to make us all Reagan/Thatcherites 
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Nov 21, 2022 02:40
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Welfare is definitely a trap, as is minimum wage. It's a simulation error, one that's actually common with conservative economists. As I understand it, it's this: Pay drifts upward to the most a job can sustain as long as there's some other pressure to raise wages. (Two really profitable industries in one place will do this.) This means that a lot of not-terribly-profitable jobs are low-paying, and if those jobs can't afford to hire people they just won't have any workers. Minimum wage and welfare are both based on the average wage of people who are working, but they slowly wipe out the lowest-paying jobs, therefore raising the average wage, therefore raising the welfare/minimum rate, therefore wiping out more jobs, etc. The reason this is unrealistic is that it's unrealistic to even know the average wage people are being paid over all workers. That's not something you see until a century later, and even then only in highly-developed economies. (And even then, there are blind spots.) It's also unrealistic because it turns social programs into a death pact, when social pressure from the people being put out of work and out of business - or people who fear that happening to them - would've stopped the increases or killed those programs long before. This sort of spiral only happens in simulations that don't account for the actual way these programs are administered and handwaves away the existence of political pressure to keep these programs low. Like in Vicky 3 or the computer simulations of hack conservative economists. Welfare and minimum wage both really need to be based on a living wage, an amount to sustain people without falling into penury or starvation, rather than pegged to average wages the way that they are. In short: Cease to Hope posted:ahahahahahaha awesome. either this is going to be great or it's going to continue the victoria tradition of jank so complicated and counterintuitive that your decisions are realistically based in misunderstanding and ideology. i cannot wait to see
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Nov 21, 2022 02:41
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The Cheshire Cat posted:The main thing between wages/dividends is that dividends are just "whatever is left in the budget", while wages have to be paid even if the building didn't make enough to cover them. I'm not sure what factors actually cause wages to go down but it seems to be a thing that's not super flexible - wages can remain high even if a building is forced to downsize due to lack of profitability. I've had a lot of buildings that struggle to keep the lights on even when their input goods are super cheap and their output goods are very valuable, simply because wages have been driven up so high. this especially becomes a problem when you've saturated a state with high value industries and eaten up the local peasant population who'll work for whatever, so before that happens, start 'outsourcing' to maintain a healthy pool of illiterate farm folk to exploit and keep costs down, and then go back for them last once you've saturated the rest of the country running out of labor to exploit is the real loss-state of Capital and you want to keep a healthy margin of have-nots as long as you can to keep wage bidding down once you've completely run out of peasants across your entire country, you need to either liberalize to draw immigrants in, go imperialism some more people, or do communism, or you'll eventually eat yourself, but that's by design megane posted:I don't know how well it works - you'd know far better than me - but there's this that claims to fix some of the overflow bugs. oh poo poo I knew I was forgetting something, ty i'll add that to the list once I'm home edit: added the fix for that+several other fixes Cease to Hope posted:Welfare is definitely a trap, as is minimum wage. It's a simulation error, one that's actually common with conservative economists. Ive heard here's also an issue of capitalist and aristocrat wages dragging the average up above where it realistically should be, and them receiving welfare money for their art collections, but I haven't looked into that personally, just seen people mention it. FirstnameLastname fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Nov 21, 2022 |
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Nov 21, 2022 02:53
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FirstnameLastname posted:there should really be more influencing where you locate a given industry besides throughput bonuses and infrastructure level. it's kiiiind of modeled through tax efficiency, but not in an interesting way imo. it should really matter more which people are being empowered and how densely concentrated that power is All I'm asking for is an icon in the build queue indicating if the state has a bonus to producing the resource.
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Nov 21, 2022 03:06
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Is there actually any benefit to locating industries next to the resources they use, like steel mills next to iron mines (like in Victoria 2  ), or does the game model a frictionless society?
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Nov 21, 2022 11:59
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Zeppelin Insanity posted:Is there actually any benefit to locating industries next to the resources they use, like steel mills next to iron mines (like in Victoria 2 No benefit whatsoever as long as your states all have 100% market access at all times and if they don't then you need to fix that immediately.
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Nov 21, 2022 12:28
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Also note, "market access" is entirely a pathfind from the state in question to the market capital (usually, but not always, either your capital if independent or your suzerain's capital if not) that multiplies the initial 100% at each step by % of infrastructure available (for land) or % of convoys available (for sea). You can't, say, build self-sufficient economies in both America and the Phillipines, or Honshu and Manchuria, or European Russia and along the Amur, and have them stay working perfectly on their own even if your commerce is being raided or you haven't finished sufficient rail capacity through the Urals and past Lake Baikal; the only solution to limited MA other than solving what's reducing the MA is to have a balanced market in each individual state, something that's near-impossible given how basic sulfur, iron, and coal all are/how rare it is to have all three mines available. Put another way, it's kind of like modern American grocery shipping where just about everything gets distributed through Chicago even if it's manufactured a county or two over from you.
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Nov 21, 2022 15:49
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Boy the AI sure loves to weigh in on diplomatic plays that don't involve them at all for the stupidest loving reasons (not on your side, though).
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Nov 21, 2022 16:36
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Mandoric posted:Also note, "market access" is entirely a pathfind from the state in question to the market capital (usually, but not always, either your capital if independent or your suzerain's capital if not) that multiplies the initial 100% at each step by % of infrastructure available (for land) or % of convoys available (for sea). You can destroy China's market access in a single war using this strat. Liberate Joseon, take the two counties surrounding their market capital, snipe the only two ports they have and suddenly everyone is starving. Even though 99% of China is still connected to each other, they can't reach the market capital so they just give up
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Nov 21, 2022 17:13
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What do other players do when their states are in turmoil? I just sort of ignore it and eventually it goes away on it's own, and I know there's the "Violent Suppression" decree I could use if I needed to, but I was wondering if there were tools beyond that.
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Nov 21, 2022 17:17
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