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 not a bad result, if I do say so myself I never got into the colonialism game in Africa (probably wouldn't have been able to get very far), and I could have warred harder in the final 20 years thinking of maybe a China or Russia game for my next campaign. Or I wonder if you can get anywhere with Iran.
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Nov 19, 2022 05:09
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Iran/Egypt/Sikhs are all cool.
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Nov 20, 2022 19:04
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https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/victoria-3-dev-diary-66-patch-1-1-part-2.1557863/quote:The gating of Oil Fields to only historically extracted areas is always tricky, if Russia and the United States collapse in game, 50%+ of the world's oil supply is locked behind their regression and the world suffers. We want to have historical credibility but also give players multiple avenues to pursue.
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Nov 21, 2022 06:28
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I have not seen America or Russia collapse once
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Nov 21, 2022 06:55
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Yeah, I just see it on youtube. Also, how do I get SoL up as Japan?
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Nov 21, 2022 08:57
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Well, if Japan is a close economy then it's just a question of how cheap stuff is and how many peasants you have. Standard of living is based on how much stuff costs, plus or minus some event modifiers. Average labourer only earns enough to maintain their standard of living by design. Making your country more rich/affluent will bring it up overall, but socialist/command economy will make the gap in standard of living less wide across the population strata. Lostconfused has issued a correction as of 15:19 on Nov 21, 2022 |
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Nov 21, 2022 15:12
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has Victoria 3 received any major patches/changes since release?
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Nov 21, 2022 15:21
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The link above is to the dev diary for the first major patch which they promised sometime in December.
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Nov 21, 2022 15:23
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V. Illych L. posted:i tried to follow up my defense of moscow and now all my divisions are chewed up and keep dissolving on impact Key for moscow 41 is to try and neutralize german ZoC as much as possible with ur poor bloody rifle regiments, then deep deep exploitation with cav and tank units kept as close to the front as possible. You'll also just need to accept that many units will be in critical supply status a lot of time. Soviet sappers dont need arty to Planned Attack, so use them diligently followed by the Artillery Preparation card to get those initial cracks in the german front. But in general your focus is on exploitation and making the german positions untenable more than fighting them directly. And yeah you'll probably take atrocious casualties
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Nov 21, 2022 22:32
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Fuligin posted:Key for moscow 41 is to try and neutralize german ZoC as much as possible with ur poor bloody rifle regiments, then deep deep exploitation with cav and tank units kept as close to the front as possible. You'll also just need to accept that many units will be in critical supply status a lot of time. Soviet sappers dont need arty to Planned Attack, so use them diligently followed by the Artillery Preparation card to get those initial cracks in the german front. But in general your focus is on exploitation and making the german positions untenable more than fighting them directly. i managed to accomplish all the objectives on the kursk map and took another 40% casualties lol this is goddamn brutal and i'm not even playing on the hardest difficulty losses which would've made me restart and rethink even serious maps in the western front campaign? nah, it's a good day, it's just 15% casualties. handful of divisions. nothing much, really e. the most irritating thing is that the germans get supply sourced from some of their stronghold cities and when i can't just surround and bypass i have to storm it with, basically, human wave assaults. on-map supply makes me a grumpy boy, it's cheating!!!! V. Illych L. has issued a correction as of 00:00 on Nov 22, 2022 |
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Nov 21, 2022 23:58
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Maximo Roboto posted:Stellaris isn't turn-based though? Stellaris has always had a problem with designing interesting gameplay loops, which is why it has been completely overhauled several times (because it did not actually ship with any gameplay idea beyond "space sandbox") - but that goes for every game Paradox has ever designed. They might honestly represent the furthest a game studio (that doesn't just ape trends) has gotten with such weak fundamental gameplay design chops I played the first Crusader Kings on release, and let's just say Paradox was in no way planning for the series to become The Sims with more murder, they just leaned into it when the system they had designed turned out to randomly produce engaging gameplay Edit: I was going to make some snippy comparison to From Soft in terms of designing your own genre and resting on your laurels, except they actually developed it into tightly designed pieces like Bloodborne and Sekiro. Paradox is more like they went straight to Elden Ring but with 80 % of the game world as DLC, and by now they're on Elden Ring IX Edit 2: essentially Paradox was originally a grognard-but-not-really studio, in that they certainly put designing arbitrary system above letting the player have meaningful interactions with them, but they were also not proper grognards in that they are simply actually pretty ignorant of historical detail and very incurious to grow in this regard. That otherwise untapped middle position of making system-heavy games that nonetheless did not presuppose or require any in-depth knowledge of the period (because Paradox never had any in-depth knowledge of any period themselves) managed to reach an untapped audience of middlebrow autodidact "history buffs" who yearned to pull designated levers and watch their blob encompass toponyms they could feel proud for recognising This is what propelled the company to its public listing, now they are definitely always aiming towards making their games not just accessible, but streamer meme-friendly with wacky event chains always ready to for reaction videos. A development from the History Channel to Twitch memes; but in terms of actual historical understanding nothing is really lost PoontifexMacksimus has issued a correction as of 01:23 on Nov 22, 2022 |
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Nov 22, 2022 00:43
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V. Illych L. posted:
Yeah those are annoying. They represent spots that got resupplied by air but taking them can come down to rng which is frustrating on a turn deadline
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Nov 22, 2022 01:11
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PoontifexMacksimus posted:middlebrow autodidact "history buffs" who yearned to pull designated levers and watch their blob encompass toponyms they could feel proud for recognising 
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Nov 22, 2022 01:53
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Elden Ringworld
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Nov 22, 2022 01:57
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Sounds like someone here is trying to describe video games.
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Nov 22, 2022 02:07
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KirbyKhan posted:Elden Ringworld As much as I think From Soft went very easy on themselves in making Elden Ring (the success of which I really hope won't drag down their future releases, I really want them to make a new, modern, good Armoured Core and not Elden Ring 2, 3, etc.) I think if you put them on the spot to design a Paradox-level strategy game they would make something far better than Paradox ever could; they certainly have the period visual research down already
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Nov 22, 2022 02:11
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PoontifexMacksimus posted:I played the first Crusader Kings on release, and let's just say Paradox was in no way planning for the series to become The Sims with more murder, they just leaned into it when the system they had designed turned out to randomly produce engaging gameplay I would agree that they dove into the personality/court management aspects, but as I recall the first CK was no slouch on that either. The only thing it was missing was events, and QOL features like the bride matcher. And then the DLCs in CK2 really dove into adding extraneous mechanics to role-play as every single type of polity. PoontifexMacksimus posted:Edit 2: essentially Paradox was originally a grognard-but-not-really studio, in that they certainly put designing arbitrary system above letting the player have meaningful interactions with them, but they were also not proper grognards in that they are simply actually pretty ignorant of historical detail and very incurious to grow in this regard. That otherwise untapped middle position of making system-heavy games that nonetheless did not presuppose or require any in-depth knowledge of the period (because Paradox never had any in-depth knowledge of any period themselves) managed to reach an untapped audience of middlebrow autodidact "history buffs" who yearned to pull designated levers and watch their blob encompass toponyms they could feel proud for recognising They never needed deep historical details because after EU2 let you play more than seven nations, their simulator went global so their system had to be broad enough to accommodate every single country. That and they could always count on the modding community to fill in the blanks, For the Glory is EU at its most history-constrained and it's basically a legitimized mod (the AGCEEP). Wish they would remaster it. The textbook over the sandbox! PoontifexMacksimus posted:This is what propelled the company to its public listing, now they are definitely always aiming towards making their games not just accessible, but streamer meme-friendly with wacky event chains always ready to for reaction videos. A development from the History Channel to Twitch memes; but in terms of actual historical understanding nothing is really lost HOI IV was disastrous for the company in that regard. Also the problem is that the fanbase will just find historical community elsewhere. There will be a generation of terminally online zoomers who got their entire understanding of history and politics from Kaiserreich and Red Flood.
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Nov 22, 2022 02:17
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gradenko_2000 posted:Arsenal of Democracy was so drat good, and it's a shame that support was dropped. Darkest Hour comes real close, but these older game are really hobbled by a lack of full Windows compatibility nowadays. Wait how was AoD better than DH, I thought everyone agreed that DH was the apex of what the HOI II engine could do, did AoD have something that beat DH's amazing map.
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Nov 22, 2022 02:20
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Maximo Roboto posted:I would agree that they dove into the personality/court management aspects, but as I recall the first CK was no slouch on that either. The only thing it was missing was events, and QOL features like the bride matcher. And then the DLCs in CK2 really dove into adding extraneous mechanics to role-play as every single type of polity. Crusader Kings 2 actually did something with the formula, yes, but my whole point was that they released a Crusader Kings 1 with no clear plan whatsoever, and no-one has any fond memories of that game. Takings several games to figure out what the gameplay should be about is no different from taking tons of DLC, and my point remains that they are not good enough at design to do more than thrown poo poo at the wall and follow what sticks - in that case Game of Sims As regards detail their games stared out global. EU2 had a samurai on the cover; figure out yourself how much fun you can have trying to recreate the Sengoku Jidai across 5 provinces or the invasion of Korea across 2.... Not sure what you mean that HoI IV was a disaster? As I understood it was very a good seller? Certainly people buying it just for the mods is not a negative...
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Nov 22, 2022 02:34
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hoi4 and its consequences have been a disaster from the human race
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Nov 22, 2022 02:40
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Maximo Roboto posted:Wait how was AoD better than DH, I thought everyone agreed that DH was the apex of what the HOI II engine could do, did AoD have something that beat DH's amazing map. I want to know this as well, I just wrapped up a very fun campaign in DH and would be very keen to know if I should switch to AoD for the next one
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Nov 22, 2022 02:48
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PoontifexMacksimus posted:they released a Crusader Kings 1 with no clear plan whatsoever, and no-one has any fond memories of that game. I do, but I might've been playing with mods that allowed me to form the Empire of Africa and other ahistorical nations. Also there was no diplo range or other "historical accuracy" systems that got in the way, so my French Angevin heir ended up as Emperor of Byzantium. Thing about CK from the start was that the medieval household simulator was definitely more compelling than barebones combat, the meager infrastructure, and the near-forgettable research aspects of the game. PoontifexMacksimus posted:Takings several games to figure out what the gameplay should be about is no different from taking tons of DLC, and my point remains that they are not good enough at design to do more than thrown poo poo at the wall and follow what sticks - in that case Game of Sims Wonder how that critique applies to the progression of the Victoria series. PoontifexMacksimus posted:As regards detail their games stared out global. EU2 had a samurai on the cover; figure out yourself how much fun you can have trying to recreate the Sengoku Jidai across 5 provinces or the invasion of Korea across 2.... Yeah, but in the original Europa Universalis you only had seven choices with Turkey as the outlier non-Christian European state. There was an American Revolution campaign and maybe some other ones, but those were pretty limited. There was a mod that let you play as any country in the game (as well as Vinland and Byzantium), but they lacked unique events or any specific flavor that started with EU2 onwards. PoontifexMacksimus posted:Not sure what you mean that HoI IV was a disaster? As I understood it was very a good seller? Certainly people buying it just for the mods is not a negative... HOI IV is when Paradox games hit the mega-mainstream and Steam Workshop mods took over so that's why you get a lot of meme mods, not to mention the streaming culture you've already mentioned. I mean it was disastrous from a niche players vs. mass market accessible standpoint. (Of which I don't really mind, but it would be nice if Paradox started supporting "legitimized" mods again like they did with AoD/DH/FtG for the more grognard/simulator-leaning crowd.) I remember when this was a niche joke https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1_PZnj4tI4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSlGdnbIUw8
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Nov 22, 2022 02:48
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Stairmaster posted:hoi4 and its consequences have been a disaster from the human race I've heard the '16 election being blamed on a lot of things, but this is the first time I've seen someone blame Hearts of Iron for it.
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Nov 22, 2022 02:50
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Maximo Roboto posted:I do, but I might've been playing with mods that allowed me to form the Empire of Africa and other ahistorical nations. Also there was no diplo range or other "historical accuracy" systems that got in the way, so my French Angevin heir ended up as Emperor of Byzantium. To return to my original point, it bears emphasising that the limit of Paradox's understanding of medieval politics was that "it was about people" - as much fun as CK2 and CK3 are their understanding of politics is still more informed by fantasy novels and prestige TV drama than actual history (they could never wrap their heads around something like the anthropological level of difference in approach to religion, Christian, Islamic or otherwise). Certainly still the best games Paradox have made from a gameplay perspective; as much fun as I am having in CK3 I could see myself reinstalling CK2 for all the subtle differences... Victoria 1 was 100 % a case of them just designing a system and trying to make a game around it afterwards (right up there with HoI3). Haven't had a chance to try V3 to see were it lands... (I'm honestly forgetting what I thought of V2 - not very much I guess?) Aah, you mean EU1, that's the one of their games I never played! Alright, I think I see you what you mean with HoI4... I hope I've made clear that it's not the direction I would prefer the company to go, but the capitalist logic seems unassailable... PoontifexMacksimus has issued a correction as of 03:00 on Nov 22, 2022 |
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Nov 22, 2022 02:56
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PoontifexMacksimus posted:To return to my original point, it bears emphasising that the limit of Paradox's understanding of medieval politics was that "it was about people" this approach is more interesting and makes more sense than whatever the gently caress is going on with internal politics in victoria. the ways you pass laws and move factions in and out of government just don't correspond to reality at all, but this has never really been a strong point of paradox games. i guess letting players determine the direction of domestic politics kind of precludes that from working in a realistic way ...as opposed to europa, which as far as i can remember just doesn't have a political layer at all, aside from converting religion by province and i guess "government reforms" which is just a bar that fills up to give you 1 of 3 preset bonuses
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Nov 22, 2022 03:06
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I posted that quote about oil because it very clearly shows where priorities are. "We can't have this happen because it's not fun". Politics and and history are not important, fun is.
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Nov 22, 2022 03:27
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"""'fun"'''"
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Nov 22, 2022 03:38
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PoontifexMacksimus posted:Edit 2: essentially Paradox was originally a grognard-but-not-really studio, in that they certainly put designing arbitrary system above letting the player have meaningful interactions with them, but they were also not proper grognards in that they are simply actually pretty ignorant of historical detail and very incurious to grow in this regard. That otherwise untapped middle position of making system-heavy games that nonetheless did not presuppose or require any in-depth knowledge of the period (because Paradox never had any in-depth knowledge of any period themselves) managed to reach an untapped audience of middlebrow autodidact "history buffs" who yearned to pull designated levers and watch their blob encompass toponyms they could feel proud for recognising https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RHBPnmXBm0g
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Nov 22, 2022 03:44
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Paradox had originally teamed up with a Russian studio to codevelop CK1, but that partnership fell through and I don't think any of the Russians were even creditted in the final release https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/the-team-consists-of-who.33747/ quote:Apr 9, 2002
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Nov 22, 2022 03:45
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Slavvy posted:"""'fun"'''" In any discussion about vidya, a medium so influenced by cross-Pacific cultural intercourse, it's important to recognize that 'fun' means 'poo poo' in Japanese.
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Nov 22, 2022 03:46
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That would explain why from soft interpret weaklings complaining about their games being no fun as praise, ironically it's true in English too
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Nov 22, 2022 03:52
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Crusader Kings is strange in that it depicts Feudalism as understood by someone who didn’t so much as bother to read Bloch’s Feudal Society, which is kind of the bare minimum you’d expect. It’s heartbreaking because they could do something really interesting there, have Feudal Law, the Church and social bonds as driving forces - all three are in the game as discreet systems - but instead it’s all kind of wasted in a simplified understanding of it all. How religion is depicted, I mean, what can you even say? As with a lot of these things, and that one historian wrote a series of long articles about A Game of Thrones in this respect, is that liberals with middlebrow or worse historical understanding as you said, can’t conceive of people truly believing in their religion.The power of the Church, fundamentally, was belief. The institutional power came later, much later if you consider how weak the papacy was relative the HRE for the first centuries of the period. Consider that the Pallium was an incredibly powerful symbol that cannot be modelled in any way shape or form in CK II or 3, other than what? Bishops of Arles and players that hold the Bishopric get +20 piety and an event chain about visiting Rome to lay the Pallium on the grave of Saint Paul? This applies to all sorts of secular relationships also, but the fact that something as important as the Pallium can’t even be represented within their conception of religion indicates the problem to me.
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Nov 22, 2022 03:56
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Maximo Roboto posted:Wait how was AoD better than DH, I thought everyone agreed that DH was the apex of what the HOI II engine could do, did AoD have something that beat DH's amazing map. PoontifexMacksimus posted:I want to know this as well, I just wrapped up a very fun campaign in DH and would be very keen to know if I should switch to AoD for the next one I will preface this by saying that I do not actually recommend anyone buy AOD in TYOOL 2022 - modern Windows support is worse than DH, and the last time I'd ever looked there were a number of major issues with the game that were left unpatched as development halted. I peeked into the Paradox forums as I was writing this post to try and see if there was any activity, and apparently there's been an alternate team plugging away at patching the game with an update as recent as 2016, but I don't know how well it works so I can't comment on how much it improves the game. I might jump into it if I see it on sale, and if you already have it and are curious, I'd be interested to know your experience. But for now, DH is still the best iteration of HOI 2, and personally my preferred way of experiencing HOI in general, just ahead of HOI 3, because I'm too stupid to understand number 4. Having said all that, when AOD came out, it significantly improved the fidelity of the combat simulation, moving away from the "total divisional destruction" and way-too-fast blitzkriegs and infantry spam of vanilla HOI 2 into something that really demanded combined arms and well-designed armies. This is not to say that Darkest Hour did not have a similar take, and DH's great new map was an astounding achievement for how much effort it involved, but I was never really one of the people that felt like needing to split the map into smaller chunks or to make it more accurate was a critical feature, and I valued AOD's improved simulationism over that.
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Nov 22, 2022 04:04
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Lostconfused posted:I posted that quote about oil because it very clearly shows where priorities are. "We can't have this happen because it's not fun". Politics and and history are not important, fun is. I mean making sure the entire game doesn't grind to a halt if two specific AI countries gently caress themselves up sounds pretty reasonable, there's a lot you can blame Paradox for wrt their approach to history but playing a little loose with historical methods of oil extraction for ease of play seems pretty far down the list Yeah the medieval Church having such independent power was one of the biggest impacts on feudal Europe and CK has never really represented it well
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Nov 22, 2022 04:31
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Castles: Siege and Conquest stays winning 
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Nov 22, 2022 05:00
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all I got from it was fromsoftware would made the most indepth and realistic medieval strategy game forever which lmao.
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Nov 22, 2022 05:37
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Maximo Roboto posted:
PoontifexMacksimus posted:Victoria 1 was 100 % a case of them just designing a system and trying to make a game around it afterwards (right up there with HoI3). Haven't had a chance to try V3 to see were it lands... (I'm honestly forgetting what I thought of V2 - not very much I guess?) All the Vicky games are designed around some weird economic simulation, and fall apart based on that system's merits or failures. The chief limitation of them all is that transportation of goods has to be heavily abstracted for the games to run, you cannot possibly have hundreds of goods attempting to pathfind from province-province, let alone the million+ that's normal in those games. I have a strong hunch that Victoria 2 was designed around a simulation that they realized mid-way was a failure. There's so much hacked off that game and so many undocumented "fixes" for the systems that I can't see it any other way. The most easily observed aspect of it are the various holes in the game's closed economy, where money disappeared into a void. It's hard to call it a good game, but it's fun in a way that most eurojank is. Vicky 2 is like if the long 19th century was reflected in a funhouse mirror, what joy to be had has to be found in oohing and ahhing over the warped results it creates. If you actually get sweaty about it, all it is a simple wargame with kooky economics, so it's better to just have fun. Maximo Roboto posted:
Stupid guys mistaking entertainment for education is an unfortunate but unavoidable consequence of there being stupid guys. HoI 4's greatest quality is that the (unintended) capacity for its focus trees to act as storytelling devices. The effect is a little sedate when you're talking about the dry mods like Kaiserreich, but I think you're underestimating the full-throated insanity of stuff like Red Flood. Gaming is otherwise stuck in the blandest region of middle-class tastes and deviancies, the capacity that HoI has to seize the imagination is worthy of respect.
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Nov 22, 2022 06:11
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:All the Vicky games are designed around some weird economic simulation, and fall apart based on that system's merits or failures. The chief limitation of them all is that transportation of goods has to be heavily abstracted for the games to run, you cannot possibly have hundreds of goods attempting to pathfind from province-province, let alone the million+ that's normal in those games. There's some Paradox employee comments in a Paradox megathread here on SA from around when it was released, but Vicky 2's economic system was designed by a Scottish Tory that believed in Ron Paul Austrian Economics as the best system and then he left Paradox just shortly before the game was released to design his own space 4x game, which was never released and after a couple of years he was given a job with Paradox again but never got put in charge of designing anything again. The game required a lot of hodge-podge fixes to make its economic system spit out anything that made any kind of sense and that's why it's so weird, a totally broken ultra-libertarian economics system that didn't actually function well patched over with all kinds of fixes.
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Nov 22, 2022 06:22
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it is eternally funny that a ron paul guy produced the core economic system of a game that makes capitalism look like dumb poo poo for assholes
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Nov 22, 2022 06:31
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Jazerus posted:it is eternally funny that a ron paul guy produced the core economic system of a game that makes capitalism look like dumb poo poo for assholes Capitalists would never set billions of dollars on fire investing in incredibly stupid projects, so yeah, the Vicky 2 economic system is completely inaccurate.
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Nov 22, 2022 06:35
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