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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Doesn't mean it is over. Framboise posted:Whether the 10-20k forgiveness happens or not, whatever. If the IDR thing coming next year trivializes or completely nullifies loan payments for 10 years and then it's gone, then that's what I'll do. God knows I don't make enough to be paying a whole lot under that plan.
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Nov 14, 2022 21:39
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Framboise posted:Whether the 10-20k forgiveness happens or not, whatever. If the IDR thing coming next year trivializes or completely nullifies loan payments for 10 years and then it's gone, then that's what I'll do. God knows I don't make enough to be paying a whole lot under that plan. Yeah, the loan forgiveness would not have really dropped my monthly payment much, if at all. I'm pissed off for everyone else.
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Nov 14, 2022 22:05
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Jaxyon posted:Also the votes That’s exactly what I said.
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Nov 15, 2022 17:24
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ozmunkeh posted:That’s exactly what I said. Perhaps I missed it? This is exactly what you said: ozmunkeh posted:They’ve had the ability to do a lot of things for a very long time. What they lack is the will or the motivation.
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Nov 15, 2022 18:40
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buglord posted:Was reading that republicans taking the House means forgiveness can be harder, for a number of reasons. Is there any feasible way for a R led House to gum things up more? In theory yes because without control of the House, Democrats can't pass loan forgiveness into law if the Supreme Court rules against Biden's argument that he has the authority under existing law. In practice no, because Democrats weren't going to pass a loan forgiveness law anyway or they would have done it already. Pretty good politicking from Democrats honestly. Announce loan forgiveness, do it in a way that's vulnerable to activist judicial action instead of just passing the law, then let all the blame fall on Republicans as everyone forgets that Dems controlled congress for 2 years and could have passed a law at any time.
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Nov 15, 2022 19:06
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Jaxyon posted:Perhaps I missed it? Yes. They’ve had the ability but not the will or the desire. Not sure what’s confusing you here.
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Nov 15, 2022 19:06
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Framboise posted:Whether the 10-20k forgiveness happens or not, whatever. If the IDR thing coming next year trivializes or completely nullifies loan payments for 10 years and then it's gone, then that's what I'll do. God knows I don't make enough to be paying a whole lot under that plan. VitalSigns posted:Dems controlled congress for 2 years and could have passed a law at any time.
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Nov 15, 2022 19:06
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ozmunkeh posted:Yes. They’ve had the ability but not the will or the desire. Not sure what’s confusing you here. It's been a canard at least since the Obama years that "not having the votes" is some kind of external limitation that's physically impossible to overcome, and not equivalent to "they just didn't want to". Like if someone asked you for help and you shrug and say "I wish I could but the will just isn't there" this is somehow different than saying "no I don't want to help you" and it becomes unreasonable for the other person to blame you for your inaction, in fact they ought to sympathize with you.
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Nov 15, 2022 19:12
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FilthyImp posted:What if the 10K Forgiveness was the Bailey for the IDR/Loan Servicing restructure Motte? I understood some of those words and now I have learned a thing. I mean, it's entirely possible.
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Nov 15, 2022 20:31
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ozmunkeh posted:Yes. They’ve had the ability but not the will or the desire. Not sure what’s confusing you here. The part that's confusing me is where you said "that's exactly what I said" and then it wasn't exactly what you said. If you said "that's the gist of what I said", that would be different. But you said "exactly". VitalSigns posted:It's been a canard at least since the Obama years that "not having the votes" is some kind of external limitation that's physically impossible to overcome, and not equivalent to "they just didn't want to". It's not physically impossible to overcome. You either replace the "no" votes or elect more "yes votes". If you want to say "they", ie the entire Democratic caucus, as a whole, "didn't want to", then you can go ahead and prove that. I don't think that's true. I suspect what you mean is something more like "the leadership and/or many more votes than Manchin/Sinema" don't want to, in which case why don't you say that?
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Nov 15, 2022 20:50
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Jaxyon posted:It's not physically impossible to overcome. You either replace the "no" votes or elect more "yes votes". But yes I am well aware that from a deterministic standpoint anything I don't want to do is also physically impossible for me to do because my brain is a physical object that obeys physical laws and there is no magic force I can use to make the chemical reactions which determine my will unfold differently from how they do etc, that's why I was able to describe the canard. Most people don't describe decisionmaking in this way which is why I helpfully chimed in to explain the miscommunication. Jaxyon posted:
This just seems like a semantic quibble, like complaining that someone says Republicans oppose gay marriage even though hashtag not ALL Republicans, but sure whatever enough of the caucus and/or leadership didn't want to pass student loan forgiveness therefore it didn't happen. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Nov 15, 2022 |
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Nov 15, 2022 23:43
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VitalSigns posted:You don't even need to do that, the ones there already could choose to vote "yes", they've still got two more months. I mean if they could but they seem like firm no's so the options I talk about come into play, not sure why you are talking about magic or biochemical reactions and whatnot. quote:This just seems like a semantic quibble, like complaining that someone says Republicans oppose gay marriage even though hashtag not ALL Republicans, but sure whatever enough of the caucus and/or leadership didn't want to pass student loan forgiveness therefore it didn't happen. I mean whether or not ALL republicans oppose a thing, or just most, or just a few, is a relavant thing in a congressional system, just as it is for Democrats. If only a few votes are the difference, that's a lot less of a problem than if a larger portion of Democrats oppose a thing. How many votes oppose a thing isn't semantics, it's literally how politics works.
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Nov 16, 2022 01:00
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If the 10k ends up truly being dead they'd better put off the end of forbearance more
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Nov 16, 2022 01:04
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While I think there's some merit about discussing why the Dems won't go the legislative route for this (hint: they're bad) I think it misses the crux of the issue: it doesn't matter which way they go about it. The GOP will sue regardless and some judge somewhere will find merit and put an injunction and stop it for months if not outright. Each side is playing with a completely separate of rules and for the republicans it's simply "sue until a judge gives us what we want".
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Nov 16, 2022 01:05
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It's always easier to obstruct a thing than do a thing, especially when you can shop around whatever insane chudge you got Trump to install.
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Nov 16, 2022 01:07
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Jaxyon posted:I mean if they could but they seem like firm no's so the options I talk about come into play, not sure why you are talking about magic or biochemical reactions and whatnot. Because someone said they didn't want to and you corrected them and said they didn't have enough votes as if those were different things, I was just explaining why some people treat not wanting to and not voting to do something as though they were different because it tends to be confusing the first time someone encounters it. Jaxyon posted:I mean whether or not ALL republicans oppose a thing, or just most, or just a few, is a relavant thing in a congressional system, just as it is for Democrats. But we're not, so it isn't. And we don't have that information anyway even if it were useful in this conversation. And normally we don't get these semantic objections, so it seems rather silly. Like can we not say "the GOP wants to ban abortion" because Susan Collins exists. Of course not.
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Nov 16, 2022 04:03
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VitalSigns posted:Because someone said they didn't want to and you corrected them and said they didn't have enough votes as if those were different things, I was just explaining why some people treat not wanting to and not voting to do something as though they were different because it tends to be confusing the first time someone encounters it. One statement was that "democrats" wanted a thing, my correct. One asserts a quasi-hivemind in order to make assertions, the other accurately describes reality.
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Nov 16, 2022 07:53
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Jaxyon posted:One statement was that "democrats" wanted a thing, my correct. One asserts a quasi-hivemind in order to make assertions, the other accurately describes reality. Nobody asserted a quasi-hivemind.
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Nov 16, 2022 12:52
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VitalSigns posted:Nobody asserted a quasi-hivemind. I'm open to other interpretations of how "the democrats don't want a thing" is not that, as opposed to talk about how they don't have the votes? Are we saying they don't have the votes because they don't want a thing, or that they don't have the votes and can't pass a thing?
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Nov 16, 2022 18:26
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Jaxyon posted:I'm open to other interpretations of how "the democrats don't want a thing" is not that Because it just isn't that's not how the language works. Talking about the goals of an organization does not mean its members are a hivemind. A quick search shows you use the same construction (bolding mine): Jaxyon posted:
So we can conclude either (1) you believe "Democrats" are a quasi-hivemind since you said [the Democrats] don't want a thing or (2) this semantic argument is stupid
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Nov 16, 2022 19:49
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VitalSigns posted:Because it just isn't that's not how the language works. Talking about the goals of an organization does not mean its members are a hivemind. A quick search shows you use the same construction (bolding mine): I think I make the same mistakes of lazy thinking that others do. I can be honest about that.
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Nov 16, 2022 19:50
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Oh ok so you did always understand nobody was asserting anything about a hivemind
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Nov 16, 2022 19:52
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VitalSigns posted:Oh ok so you did always understand nobody was asserting anything about a hivemind No I think that both I and the other person were.
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Nov 16, 2022 19:59
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Well, I got an E-mail last night explicitly saying my application was approved and that "if and when" the challenges get resolved, I'd get the chop taken off my debt. I guess this be damage control to make sure the blame is pointed squarely at the courts and plaintiffs?
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Nov 21, 2022 15:16
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Got the same email, so did my brother.
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Nov 21, 2022 15:47
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I have not seen any such email, will have to ask the wife who similarly applied.
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Nov 21, 2022 16:36
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They're coming in batches, I think. I just got mine this morning.
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Nov 21, 2022 16:46
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Eason the Fifth posted:They're coming in batches, I think. I just got mine this morning. Yeah I got one this morning and my wife got hers on Friday.
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Nov 21, 2022 17:32
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Plotac 75 posted:Well, I got an E-mail last night explicitly saying my application was approved and that "if and when" the challenges get resolved, I'd get the chop taken off my debt. I guess this be damage control to make sure the blame is pointed squarely at the courts and plaintiffs? Yes, hopefully they send the notice once a month or so.
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Nov 21, 2022 17:33
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The forgiveness is a drop in the bucket for me (Thanks, PSLF!) but I really could use the lower cap on my discretionary income for payments. Did the whole package get shut down?
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Nov 21, 2022 20:27
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Beerdeer posted:The forgiveness is a drop in the bucket for me (Thanks, PSLF!) but I really could use the lower cap on my discretionary income for payments. Did the whole package get shut down? Just the debt forgiveness is at dispute in the lawsuits. No impact on IDR yet.
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Nov 21, 2022 20:31
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Man, I applied for consolidation back in August. I just called Aidvantage and it's still in the pipeline. Good grief.
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Nov 21, 2022 20:34
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Just the debt forgiveness is at dispute in the lawsuits. Just to be clear, does this mean that interest being frozen and the payments being cut down hard depending on income is unaffected? That was one of the biggest surprise gets from this package.
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Nov 22, 2022 00:16
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Circutron posted:Just to be clear, does this mean that interest being frozen and the payments being cut down hard depending on income is unaffected? That was one of the biggest surprise gets from this package. Yes. As of right now, the IDR is not being challenged.
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Nov 22, 2022 00:19
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Circutron posted:Just to be clear, does this mean that interest being frozen and the payments being cut down hard depending on income is unaffected? That was one of the biggest surprise gets from this package. Also if worst comes to worst and we have to pay this all back, is there a summary on what IDR changes are? I ignored that initially because I was so focused on the forgiveness cancelling my remaining 15k. Should I go onto Nelnet and change my repayment from graduated-repayment (increases over time) to IDR?
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Nov 22, 2022 00:19
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buglord posted:Also if worst comes to worst and we have to pay this all back, is there a summary on what IDR changes are? I ignored that initially because I was so focused on the forgiveness cancelling my remaining 15k. Should I go onto Nelnet and change my repayment from graduated-repayment (increases over time) to IDR? They are in the OP: quote:For undergraduate loans, cut in half the amount that borrowers have to pay each month from 10% to 5% of discretionary income. Edit: buglord posted:Should I go onto Nelnet and change my repayment from graduated-repayment (increases over time) to IDR? Not available until June 2023. Anyone with a federally backed loan can convert their existing loan to IDR. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Nov 22, 2022 |
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Nov 22, 2022 00:21
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Excellent. Must have missed that in the OP. good to know I can opt-in in June. Thank for the info as always Leon.
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Nov 22, 2022 00:27
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Yes. As of right now, the IDR is not being challenged. Thanks for the response and the info!
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Nov 22, 2022 01:22
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Also of note, there are some rumblings of possibly extending the repayment freeze further past 12/31/22 while the $10K/$20K forgiveness is in legal limbo.
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Nov 22, 2022 12:53
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I woke up this morning to an email from Mohela telling me I have 126 payments under the waiver. So I have qualified for PSLF and am filing that poo poo RIGHT NOW.
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Nov 22, 2022 15:46
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