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M_Gargantua posted:My second complaint The death of Telsin was done poorly. Was 'defeated' her, but then Harmony just yanks her connection with Autonomy and she just keels over and dies a little later. It really needed more of Wax's direct involvement, like he should have at least shot her once her connection was pulled instead of just letting her fade out. Its not even clear at the time that she's dying, Wax just leaves. i didn't really get the explanation there, is it just that as an Avatar she was able to basically run her human body into the ground (not sleeping, etc) and continue subsisting on all the energy the Shard gave her? it's just not something I think we've seen in these books before
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Nov 19, 2022 21:47
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Proteus Jones posted:No way. Having Wax kill his sister would be cruel. Dude has had enough suffering in his life. Plus, of course he's going to just leave. The mission is what's important, not his making sure his sister dies. TLM So was his plan to just come back and arrest her and hope Autonomy doesn't reinvest her in the future? You've got a villian who wanted to nuke a city to help her take over the world. Wax even spends half the book building up to having to kill her with all his internal monologues about how she's always been a bit cruel and has now gone way to far into outright evil. eke out posted:i didn't really get the explanation there, is it just that as an Avatar she was able to basically run her human body into the ground (not sleeping, etc) and continue subsisting on all the energy the Shard gave her? it's just not something I think we've seen in these books before This vagueness probably influenced my opinion as well.
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Nov 19, 2022 22:05
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M_Gargantua posted:TLM So was his plan to just come back and arrest her and hope Autonomy doesn't reinvest her in the future? You've got a villian who wanted to nuke a city to help her take over the world. Wax even spends half the book building up to having to kill her with all his internal monologues about how she's always been a bit cruel and has now gone way to far into outright evil. yeah, i honestly think there's a meta explanation which is that Brandon doesn't want to actually introduce a new magic system at that point and would prefer to keep the specifics of what Autonomy can grant you and how it works extremely open. like, she got extra health, somehow, and they say she got some level of future sight/big picture planning ability/cognitive enhancement/whoknowswhat. but in a Sanderson book that's incredibly vague compared to everything else
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Nov 19, 2022 22:11
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Is it possible that (TLM spoilers obviously) Telsin’s death satisfied the ruin part of Harmony being able to intervene there at all, and he causes it actively? We get an inner monologue from ostensibly Autonomy but ruin was always pretty good at that himself.
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Nov 19, 2022 22:48
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More TLM spoilers: It was VERY well established in the book that Autonomy is ruthless to those who fail her. Given that Telain’s death is completely different from any other death we’ve seen in the cosmere, I think it’s fine to conclude that her death was at Automomy’s hand, regardless of whether Autonomy directly killed her or whether her death was from Autonomy’s withdrawal. I don’t see any need for Wax to have shot her. He was hyper focused on stopping the bomb, and knew he had beaten his sister. I don’t see any way, given what we now know of Autonomy’s nature, that Telsin would have been given power again. And I think Wax knew that too
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Nov 20, 2022 02:16
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Tunicate posted:Kelsier knows Sazed is lying because Sazed turned Spook into a mistborn already I thought there was a bead or two of Lerasium lying around still, or the fact that when he was moving the planet around he had some extra hanging around and turning a misting into a full mistborn wouldn't have been hard. At the time it was just a one time thing, but it's been a while since I read that book. The Lord Ruler managed to make mistwraiths out of some Terrisman, and managed to alter the genetics of Skaa and Nobles to some extent while using it so there's no reason Sazed couldn't have done the same to Spook when he held the power and moved the planet around.
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Nov 20, 2022 19:32
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seaborgium posted:I thought there was a bead or two of Lerasium lying around still, or the fact that when he was moving the planet around he had some extra hanging around and turning a misting into a full mistborn wouldn't have been hard. At the time it was just a one time thing, but it's been a while since I read that book.
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Nov 21, 2022 00:30
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TLM and some Warbreaker spoilers Harmony directly made spook into a mistborn and he even mentioned he wasn't like a lerasium created mistborn, which was strong as hell, but more like what people who would've been born as mistborn at the time would have been like. He obviously could create mistborn but I think his dual nature is working against him now. As for the book, I was sad to see we didn't get mistborn Wax. I was really hoping with the implications from the explosion and later coughing. Kept waiting for it all through the book and instead he just spiked himself with duralumin. I thought it was confirmed earlier on when he reached for a vial while in air and in flight, he wasn't able to reach it, but it snapped into his hand. I was sure he had iron pulled the vial into his hand then but didn't realize it himself because of being in a fight. Also feels like Harmony and Kelsier are doing the not saying everything they could to each other. Or at least Harmony is being annoyingly vague, feels like he could've tried to explain things better and in more detail to Kelsier. Also I had previously thought Scadrial was perhaps the most advanced planet in the cosmere at the time. I also wonder what the men in red and gold where. For some reason my mind went to lifeless troops, like Kalad's Phantoms. The colors of red and gold by the way where Lightsongs colors in Warbreaker. I don't know that there's any actual connection there, but I thought it was interesting. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 09:18 on Nov 21, 2022 |
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Nov 21, 2022 09:08
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His Divine Shadow posted:TLM and some Warbreaker spoilers He was definitely burning pewter when he was punching the not-Wax, that dude was getting hurt a lot more than it just being the first time he'd been punched in the face. There were a couple other instances like that where he was burning metals instinctively like Vin did before she knew she was a Mistborn. And maybe someone stole the Lifeless army from Nalthis. I think Vasher said he hid them somewhere after he used them at the end of Warbreaker, maybe he dropped them in Shadesmar or something like that and they got stolen.
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Nov 21, 2022 16:10
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TLM/Warbreaker spoilers: Chapter 71 in the audiobook, when Harmony is directly talking to Wayne after Wayne pushes Wax off the boat, Harmony says: 1. Wax did something different 2. Wax may have inhaled some of the dust already 3. Harmony doesn't know what Wax did different to create Lerasium instead of just an explosion I think it's highly likely that Wax is a mistborn, between the coughing, the falling vial, the punching, and Harmony calling it out. You could write off the other stuff as luck and the mists coming to Wax's aid, but I mean, its Sanderson, he loves rule of cool and hinting at things. I'm not sure how that would matter since we're done with era 2, unless my other theory about it affecting his kids is true. I think Harmony is telling Wayne the truth here, as his limitations/Discord wouldn't care about telling a soon to be dead man the secrets of recreating the most powerful and dangerous metal. Unlike with Kelsier who has the means to replicate the experiment if he suspects anything. I want to think the men of red and gold are robots, but you just slap a coat of paint on the lifeless and bam, men of red and gold.
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Nov 21, 2022 18:25
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Ugh I haven't read this thread for weeks now since I'm finishing up Project Hail Mary (phenomenal) and am moving right to TLM as soon as I finish today but wanted to ask if there's a good site that sums up era #2 before I hit it up. I remember MOST things but I've read something like 7 books between finishing book #6 and TLM so I'm afraid I'm gonna overlook some important things. Also, completed the BackerKit survey and went all in on everything except the Kaladin/Szeth statue.
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Nov 21, 2022 18:43
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https://www.tor.com/2022/11/01/mistborn-era-2-everything-you-need-to-know-before-reading-the-last-metal/comment-page-1/ Tor has a good pre-TLM recap
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Nov 21, 2022 19:24
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You can also check out the book pages on the coppermind.
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Nov 21, 2022 19:28
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Great, thank you both!
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Nov 21, 2022 19:29
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Yeah, coppermind has the nice 'time machine' feature where they let you browse the wiki as it was the day before release
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Nov 21, 2022 19:31
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TLM spoilers again: The "not-Wax" and "not-Wayne" are referred to as having been "created" to oppose our heroes. Thinking more about it, it really seems outlandishly improbable that the Set would be able to find people who: a) had somewhat-corresponding exaggerated personality types to Wax and Wayne, b) were willing to give up their whole lives for several years for the sole and explicit purpose of getting into a couple of fights with as-yet unbeatable dudes c) were willing to work with and risk their lives for a secret criminal organization, and d) were willing to get spikes containing other people's souls driven into their bodies by said secret criminal organization. And like, what was the in-universe point of them? Was "the heroes, but kinda stronger and stupider and with way less of the relevant experience, skill, and knowledge" really the best solution the Set could come up with? I know that the Bizarro trope is a classic in superhero stories, and for a reason. But it felt pretty of out of place and gimmicky to me in this story.
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Nov 22, 2022 03:13
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I think we will give you superpowers if you train to kill this guy, and if you succeed, you will be well paid and god will give you extra benefits is an offer that there is no shortage of takers for.
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Nov 22, 2022 03:24
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Well I just finished BoM again. Quite frankly, it's been the only Era 2 book I've really enjoyed. I hope TLM lives up to the hype it ended on.
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Nov 23, 2022 00:00
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TLM secondary character spoiler: I've now seen elsewhere online that Moonlight was Shai, and... what? Are there some pretty major clues I missed somehow, or are people really doing that solely off of "is a female Forger"? Because Shai would have all her self-changing Essence Marks (and the ultra martial artist one would have come in handy), she wouldn't be so amateur as to forge a mark where she wouldn't know if she'd remember her true self afterwards, and I'm pretty goddamn sure the timeline in no way lines up.
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Nov 23, 2022 05:42
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CapnAndy posted:TLM secondary character spoiler: I've now seen elsewhere online that Moonlight was Shai, and... what? Are there some pretty major clues I missed somehow, or are people really doing that solely off of "is a female Forger"? Because Shai would have all her self-changing Essence Marks (and the ultra martial artist one would have come in handy), she wouldn't be so amateur as to forge a mark where she wouldn't know if she'd remember her true self afterwards, and I'm pretty goddamn sure the timeline in no way lines up. Her name is shai, but with the elantrian pronunciation when she transforms. I'm guessing she had some issues with bringing her magic to scadrial, explaining her relative level of unpreparedness
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Nov 23, 2022 06:24
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NikkolasKing posted:Well I just finished BoM again. Quite frankly, it's been the only Era 2 book I've really enjoyed. I hope TLM lives up to the hype it ended on. I really liked it. Provided a good wrap up to era 2, but more importantly showed interesting character growth and highlighted the fact that the main cast has changed and evolved based on their earlier adventures and relationships with each other. Answered some Cosmere questions while introducing others. Seems like these are tough things for many multi-part series to nail down, but I think Sando did a good job. Wax and Wayne are right up there with Vin and Kelsier for me now.
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Nov 23, 2022 20:01
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Paddyo posted:I really liked it. Provided a good wrap up to era 2, but more importantly showed interesting character growth and highlighted the fact that the main cast has changed and evolved based on their earlier adventures and relationships with each other. Answered some Cosmere questions while introducing others. Seems like these are tough things for many multi-part series to nail down, but I think Sando did a good job. Wax and Wayne are right up there with Vin and Kelsier for me now. I am enjoying it so far. Just started Part 2. The timeskip makes sense and apart from Moonlight dropping some of the most blatant exposition I've ever heard, I've found everything both interesting on a story level and comp9elling on a character level. Really wanna see where everybody ends up. I didn't dislike Books 1 and 2, just didn't get hooked like I did in BoM. Now I'm even more invested in seeing the end of our heroes' journeys. I remember years ago people guessed Trell was Autonomy. Dunno how but they did. Hemalurgy is repeatedly said to basically be cutting off a bit of a person's soul and grafting it onto yourself to gain their powers. Now, in a lot of Fantasy stories, messing with souls is the ultimate crime. Killing somebody sucks yeah but at least their essence gets to "go on" to wherever. How, if at all, does Hemalurgy impact Cosmere mechanics? Does it hurt a person's spiritual aspect and prevent them from undergoing the usual journey and peace everybody else gets?
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Nov 23, 2022 22:09
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NikkolasKing posted:I am enjoying it so far. Just started Part 2. The timeskip makes sense and apart from Moonlight dropping some of the most blatant exposition I've ever heard, I've found everything both interesting on a story level and comp9elling on a character level. Really wanna see where everybody ends up. I didn't dislike Books 1 and 2, just didn't get hooked like I did in BoM. Now I'm even more invested in seeing the end of our heroes' journeys. Based on Warbreaker, it doesn't really do significant harm to them. Drabs, i.e. people who give away their one Breath, are a bit less healthy than non-Drabs, but that's about the extent of the disadvantages of giving away a small piece of your soul does to you. So skimming a bit of the allomantic potential of a Scadrian should be quite comparable. It's obviously not a painless procedure, and doing it to unwilling participants is a big moral no-no (and poor people letting themself get spiked for money is a huge can of worms), but it's not the ultimate crime as it is in other series.
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Nov 23, 2022 22:26
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Tunicate posted:Her name is shai, but with the elantrian pronunciation when she transforms. I'm guessing she had some issues with bringing her magic to scadrial, explaining her relative level of unpreparedness Also, what's with the "oh gosh I might stay an Eltantrian forever" thing in general? One of the hardest rules we know for Forging is that no soul forge lasts more than 24 hours; after that, you've got to be restamped or it wears off. Even Shai's forget-everything stamp included a reason to keep stamping herself.
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Nov 23, 2022 23:26
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I wonder if a Forged person who is strongly connected with the Dor would need the power reimprinted each day.
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Nov 24, 2022 00:15
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Something I'm glad Sanderson seems to have dropped is the idea of "snapping" or "being broken" as a requirement for special abilities. It makes certain events from TSA backstory sound perfectly good and rational if suffering and near death situations bring out magical powers. So far as I know, Wax and Wayne can just do their thing, no need to nearly die for it. The idea was also really stupid considering there were hundreds of Radiants once upon a time. You can't build a military order by hoping your recruits get hosed up.
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Nov 24, 2022 06:36
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NikkolasKing posted:Something I'm glad Sanderson seems to have dropped is the idea of "snapping" or "being broken" as a requirement for special abilities. It makes certain events from TSA backstory sound perfectly good and rational if suffering and near death situations bring out magical powers. From what I understand, in stormlight it's still there, but as something that makes things easier but isn't required. In mistborn it got changed because god didn't like it.
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Nov 24, 2022 06:51
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I honestly cringe every time a Stormlight character says something about being "broken," it's such YA teenage drama nonsense. There are better, more descriptive, less emo ways of expressing, "I have some trauma." That said, as a person who struggles with depression and anxiety, the idea that people with trauma or emotional issues are more suited to having superpowers bestowed upon them is kinda nice.
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Nov 24, 2022 20:10
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Potato Salad posted:I wonder if a Forged person who is strongly connected with the Dor would need the power reimprinted each day. This is what I'm thinking too. That would give them a direct investiture tap separate from the stamping.
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Nov 24, 2022 20:57
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Finished the book yesterday at work (it was a REALLY slow day). I really enjoyed it! I was worried about pacing after Rhythm of War but had no issues with the pacing in this book. Now I need my local library to get the physical hardcover version of the Spanish translation. I've bought all the books in digital and English, but somehow won all the other Mistborn books last year in an Instagram giveaway so I need it to complete the collection (well I also need to buy the hardcover version of Final Empire because that one was in paperback) 
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Nov 24, 2022 22:12
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Adnor posted:Finished the book yesterday at work (it was a REALLY slow day). Why is all that cover art so good
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Nov 24, 2022 22:30
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mewse posted:Why is all that cover art so good I find the Bands of Mourning art really funny. What's with Wax's pose, and that guy aiming his guns at nothing.
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Nov 25, 2022 00:28
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Adnor posted:I find the Bands of Mourning art really funny. What's with Wax's pose, and that guy aiming his guns at nothing. Ok.. it took me a bit to see it but it is a bit Johnny Fiveaces
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Nov 25, 2022 01:15
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mewse posted:Ok.. it took me a bit to see it but it is a bit Johnny Fiveaces
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Nov 25, 2022 05:21
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Finished the lost metal. No spoiler review: I thought the first half was a bit slow and didn't contribute too much to the overall story, but it really home in the second half. Very half baked spoiler review: there was lot of cool cosmere stuff packed into this book, but all I can think about is the death of Wayne. I didn't expect it, my first thought was that all the focus on Wayne would end with him taking up a shard, either Whimsy as others mentioned, or even Harmony with all the issues mentioned about Sazed in this book. His death caught me really off guard and hit me way harder than I expected. I really really liked the book, and I'm very very sad about Wayne's death. On one hand I'm glad that Sanderson went all the way and killed a beloved character, on the other hand I hate it because Wayne was one of my favorite characters in all the Sanderson books. His arc throughout the series and especially this final book was done incredibly well. What an awesome final move for him. Also, Steris (sp? i listen to the audiobook) is incredibly badass and was even moreso in this book. I love her
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Nov 25, 2022 06:51
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Sanderson better not fucken touch Lopen
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Nov 25, 2022 07:18
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Do you have Steris in your house? Wax: I am protected. Sorry, I think I just had a stroke.
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Nov 25, 2022 07:53
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His Divine Shadow posted:Do you have Steris in your house? 
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Nov 25, 2022 16:32
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Finished TLM. So when exactly is this happening in relation to Stormlight 1-5? I thought TSA happened later. Now actaul spoilers I figured someone had to die but it really did hit me with Wayne. It was really well done and definitely solidified him as my favorite Era 2 protagonist. The reason I asked about the timeline is because what we see of Scadriel Ghostbloods is quite different from Roshar Ghostbloods. I had always just figured time changed things dramatically. I honestly did not expect Marsh to survive. Just let the poor guy rest already. Speaking of which, it's one line in the first book, but there's a religion called "Sliverism" which worships "Iron Eyes." I have no idea why Marsh's religion takes its title from the Lord Ruler's "Sliver of Infinity." There does appear to be something gong on with Harmony, that dark shadow or whatever it is., but I'm still more inclined to trust him than Kelsier's group.
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Nov 25, 2022 20:12
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NikkolasKing posted:Finished TLM. I believe the latest WoBs put Mistborn Era 2 as happening definitely after Stormlight 5 and possibly after Stormlight 6, although Brandon hasn't fully nailed down the chronology yet. The difference in the behaviors and attitudes of the Scadrial Ghostbloods and the Roshar Ghostbloods come down to two factors. First, as they tell us themselves, they're concerned first and foremost with protecting Scadrial. That aligns them with our Scadrian protagonists while putting them at best orthogonal to our Rosharan protagonists. Second, they're operating under Kelsier's direct leadership, which means he's in a position to restrain some of their worst impulses. Also, I suspect that Sliverism views the Lord Ruler as its ultimate deity; it's just that Marsh is the last of the Steel Inquisitors, which makes him something akin to a saintly or angelic figure.
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Nov 25, 2022 21:42
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