(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
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China can only achieve covid zero by making covid zero cheap and easy for it's citizens. China is also the only country to give this possibility serious thought.
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Nov 27, 2022 06:22
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| # ? May 25, 2024 23:01 |
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china's greatest coup is getting the west to move all its covid zero there and now they can dictate prices and working conditions in those establishments
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Nov 27, 2022 06:27
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president xi.. open er up
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Nov 27, 2022 07:21
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F Stop Fitzgerald posted:president xi.. open er up
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Nov 27, 2022 07:27
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strange feelings re Daisy posted:It's maddening the government hasn't mandated N95/KN94 masks and better air filtering. It's such a cheap solution and it's already been figured out. Surgical and cloth masks should just be phased out entirely. You don't have to choose between the economy and health. I agree with you, but china hasn't even mandated the vaccine. that to me is the bare minimum, but for reasons I can't understand it's always been a bridge too far for the govt. Having recently been to japan, that's the best china (and the world) can hope for I think. everybody wears masks all the time (even outside). I think they take it as seriously as it can be taken without destroying the economy/ ruining people's lives. this graph is illustrative:  . there's been a lot of carnage in japan/taiwan, and china is the undisputed champion of containing covid, however, as many deaths as there are in korea/japan/taiwan, it's still 1/10th as much as america/eu. it sucks, but I'm convinced omicron is unstoppable. ideally there'll be a cure or a 100% effective vaccine or mass filtration in buildings implemented, but those seem like pipe dreams now. Happy Underpants posted:China can only achieve covid zero by making covid zero cheap and easy for it's citizens. China is also the only country to give this possibility serious thought. This is something thats really underreported/misunderstood. covid basically didn't exist in china after april 2020, and for all of 2021 was a small inconvenience for the vast majority of people. it's only in 2022 that the pain in the rear end test every 2 days and city wide lockdowns became really widespread. covid 0 up until omicron was relatively achievable and the best of both worlds, keep population and economy healthy. unfortunately, omicron wrecked it all. Mirello has issued a correction as of 07:31 on Nov 27, 2022 |
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Nov 27, 2022 07:28
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Mirello posted:I agree with you, but china hasn't even mandated the vaccine. that to me is the bare minimum, but for reasons I can't understand it's always been a bridge too far for the govt. there's no way India is that low on the graph lmao
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Nov 27, 2022 07:51
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Spergin Morlock posted:there's no way India is that low on the graph lmao duh, america is probably way too low as well. some countries just don't have the medical establishment/tracking to actually see everyone who died of covid. also, it's worth considering that the #1 predictor of severity of covid (other than vaccination) is age, and india is by far the youngest country on the list. makes japan's low rate of death much more impressive as well (average age 47) although they might be juking the stats as well. I choose to believe them (unless they're totally unbelievable) because otherwise what can you do? Mirello has issued a correction as of 07:55 on Nov 27, 2022 |
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Nov 27, 2022 07:52
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japan's median age went up 1.3 years between 2018 and 2020, that's loving insane. it's at 48.6 now edit i guess it's right at about 50 now in late 2022, maybe a touch higher if their birthrate could fall any lower because of covid i say swears online has issued a correction as of 08:28 on Nov 27, 2022 |
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Nov 27, 2022 08:23
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video from some COVID zero supporters https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqGymrZr16U
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Nov 27, 2022 10:46
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Spergin Morlock posted:there's no way India is that low on the graph lmao note "confirmed"
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Nov 27, 2022 10:52
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i say swears online posted:japan's median age went up 1.3 years between 2018 and 2020, that's loving insane. it's at 48.6 now Holy poo poo, wouldn't covid killing old people make the medium age lower? What am I missing. Covid made people stop having sex?
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Nov 27, 2022 11:38
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crepeface posted:video from some COVID zero supporters I'm only about 20 minutes in but the host raises a great point that the Xinjiang fire basically had a bunch of verified video and on-the-ground reports right after it happened, but poo poo about the Uighurs is based around satellite imagery, badly interpreted statistics (sourced from the Chinese government itself!) and one-off witness accounts with never any imagery. It just makes the latter sound very improbable in comparison.
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Nov 27, 2022 11:49
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There are many conflicting signals about easing covid policy I don't know what is happening. Sad to hear the fire deaths.
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Nov 27, 2022 11:53
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stephenthinkpad posted:Holy poo poo, wouldn't covid killing old people make the medium age lower? What am I missing. Covid made people stop having sex? while covid kills old people, japan was still in east asia and applied appropriate measures, then got hosed by omicron. they however didn't do anything about young people needing stable lives and a decent income. it is going to have a significant demographic outcome, only a shadow of which is seen in my post
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Nov 27, 2022 11:56
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It's over, Chinailures
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Nov 27, 2022 12:32
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China in disarray https://twitter.com/CindyXiaodanYu/status/1596833342166470657?t=BaBQZUCGBGk4LXDKoHBR6A&s=19 Via Howard French
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Nov 27, 2022 13:14
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stephenthinkpad posted:There are many conflicting signals about easing covid policy I don't know what is happening. if omicron has escaped the tier one cities, the geographical containment strategy will probably fail one way or another, sadly. it's zero covid or open Biden. not much wiggle room for "easing" inbetween.
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Nov 27, 2022 13:46
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I don't understand why the Chinese media continues to downplay covid outcomes. Is the average Chinese aware e.g. that by the US regime's own reckoning, 4 million Americans have been permanently disabled by long covid to the extent that they can no longer work? https://www.brookings.edu/research/new-data-shows-long-covid-is-keeping-as-many-as-4-million-people-out-of-work/ And this was before the US decided to do even more nothing about mitigation. , and covid destroys immune systems, making each successive infection more destructive. People in the covid thread jokingly call covid airborne HIV. Given the level of understanding we now have of HIV and the theraputics available to "long HIV" sufferers vs long Covid, it's not an exaggeration to say that the population level outcomes for Covid are far worse today than for HIV. This is easily demonstrable and I don't understand why the Chinese media isn't making every Chinese person aware of this.
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Nov 27, 2022 14:21
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Throatwarbler posted:I don't understand why the Chinese media continues to downplay covid outcomes. Is the average Chinese aware e.g. that by the US regime's own reckoning, 4 million Americans have been permanently disabled by long covid to the extent that they can no longer work? Chinese media is terrible,.most Chinese aren't even aware that over a millions Americans have died of covid.
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Nov 27, 2022 14:39
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Worker's union launches motorcade in campaign for increasing the minimum wage to a "family living wage" of 1,100 / dayquote:If you raise wages, businesses will have to raise prices to cope up. Useless. quote:Increasing salary would only lead to inflation quote:Hiking the minimum wage this much will cause companies to close down or layoff tons of workers. Do you want that instead? quote:A fresh college graduate isn't even earning 1,100 a day. Why should minimum wage earners make that? quote:Foreign investors would laugh their asses off. The reason they're here is because of low labor costs. If they increased the minimum wage, they'd all leave and look for countries with lower labor costs quote:Not an economist but common sense dictates that any raise in wages results in a proportional rise of prices for goods and services or am i missing something? Also feeling that a LOT of businesses not under a corporation would close down if not lay off a lot of workers (a rise in unemployment) and any that is left would be worked to the bone. quote:It may sound selfish but I would want the minimum wage to stay the same until their little egos are crushed. Let the 31m Marcos voters experience the repercussions quote:And most of the workers here, nay businesses are dependent to small to medium enterprises in our country. Good luck to them surviving that blanket minimum wage hike. It's worse than being gutted alive financially speaking. ___ How did we miss out on the clothing and electronic manufacturing boom decades ago that our neighbour's capitalized on? quote:Economic Protectionism. If we learnt from South Korea, Singapore and Vietnam, we wouldn't be a protectionist country where manpower is an export. quote:One major factor is radical unionism. Our garments manufacturing industry boomed in the 80’s but most of the factories closed shop when workers started those long-term strikes. I personally know someone who worked in the factory administrative office who got locked in their office. The owner had to charter a chopper just to get the admin staff off the factory compound because the strikers were quite violent. I don't know why all these people claim to be liberals when their position is to the right of Marcos.
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Nov 27, 2022 14:55
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https://twitter.com/realsteelmuslim/status/1596763494116130816 lol I didn't care before but now I am all for tuning Shanghai into Hama.
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Nov 27, 2022 15:55
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Spergin Morlock posted:there's no way India is that low on the graph lmao The Times of India estimates the true covid death toll in India is 5.8 times higher than the confirmed death toll. Meanwhile in America, The Economist estimates that the true death toll is 15% higher than the confirmed death toll. GlassEye-Boy posted:Chinese media is terrible,.most Chinese aren't even aware that over a millions Americans have died of covid. Xi can't let the people know that over one million Americans have achieved the ultimate freedom.
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Nov 27, 2022 16:01
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https://twitter.com/ChineseBot2B/status/1596749852461133824?t=zWjc9uqhuv-BFyicHoKweg&s=19 All foreign sponsored jihadists
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Nov 27, 2022 17:06
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Raskolnikov38 posted:it would be great if China expelled all foreign journalists since all they do is lie anyway. what’s the point to letting the NYT set up shop in Beijing or HK
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Nov 27, 2022 17:26
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GlassEye-Boy posted:Chinese media is terrible,.most Chinese aren't even aware that over a millions Americans have died of covid. Lol far more than a million Americans died of COVID,
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Nov 27, 2022 17:29
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Admittedly, part of the reason may not be incompetency but an omission that eventually China is going to have to open up and that there will be some deaths. They don't want to demonize the Americans too much because it could easily swing back on them. That said, China has very high rates of vaccination and a one of the higher booster rates (60-65%). It wouldn't be enough to contain covid because vaccines are usually not enough to stop minimal symptoms (coughing/sneezing) which is how the infection is transmitted. I do think the fight right now is to get everyone to get the first booster/3rd shot (which includes a new inhaled booster) then move on to a second booster that is a mRNA vaccine tuned to Omicron. They have already been prepping the factories but it is obviously a bit of a race against time because they are getting a fall wave and it will still be a few months before they can get everything set and people vaccine. In the end, it supposedly takes 5-6 vaccines/infections before you really start to mitigate symptoms (very mild ones at least). In the case of China, it is a question if they can get most of the population with 4 shots that they say just say good enough and move onward. ----- With India, I suspect just many people died at home in rural areas and never properly tested/reported rather than actively hiding numbers. It may explain the case of "excess" deaths in Russia as well in the sense that deaths were reported but they were never tested. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 17:54 on Nov 27, 2022 |
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Nov 27, 2022 17:31
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Here is my reading....all on my hunch. The unspoken social contract between the people and the state is that the people will do zero lock down up to the conclusion of the party congress, after that the state has to ease up. In all honesty I think the ease up is maybe half year later than when it should have been if the party congress doesn't exist this year. Now after the big meeting, there were multiple signs of slowly opening up, and then there were new announcement of continuing the zero covid policy on newspapers...and then there are new cities/districts putting in lock down...so people lost their poo poo a lot faster if their own districts are putting in lock down. Also there has been no change to the "foreign policy" leadership but pretty big change to the 'domestic affair' leadership. So the out going team has no incentive to pull off a good stage by stage national ease up. stephenthinkpad has issued a correction as of 17:53 on Nov 27, 2022 |
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Nov 27, 2022 17:43
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I think the Party congress and internal dynamics matter less than simply the mechanics of getting boosters out there to the point they can slowly open up and let the infection slowly spread while making sure their hospitals aren’t overrun. I do think they still need that Omicron booster though.
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Nov 27, 2022 17:56
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The funniest part of the coverage of the protests in China (including the bank one a few months back) is how many western folks look at it and just knee jerk "All of those people are dead and disappeared to reeducation camps now." People are just absolutely insane re: China these days
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Nov 27, 2022 18:02
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Telluric Whistler posted:The funniest part of the coverage of the protests in China (including the bank one a few months back) is how many western folks look at it and just knee jerk "All of those people are dead and disappeared to reeducation camps now." People are just absolutely insane re: China these days it’s a brutal, totalitarian society that also is too weak and soft to accept that they should let millions die to maintain our (their) supply chain.
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Nov 27, 2022 18:04
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Mirello posted:As someone who lives in china until very recently, and very pro lockdown (and locked down myself for a combined 21 days + a month of nothing being open in my city), I think covid 0 is over. People are pissed. It's the worst of both worlds, constant lockdowns and it's still ravaging the population. Destroying the economy. Thousands of people will die unnecessarily (way more than that fire) but china will follow the rest of the world. Omicron makes covid 0 impossible. It worked with alpha and delta, but omicron is just too much. Is it ravaging the population though? per capita numbers are still very low relative to basically every other country in the world I'm pretty sure. If they go open biden it won't be thousands of people that die, it will be hundreds of thousands at the very minimum if they're obscenely lucky, more likely millions. And that's not even considering the 10s of millions that will be permanently disabled. Covid 0 might be impossible with the new hyper infectious variants, but imperfect mitigation is much, much better than nothing. I agree the controls are probably done for though. I just think it's crazy that people are protesting in the street for the right to risk death and disability in exchange for convenience. I guess they just can't imagine bad things could ever happen to them.
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Nov 27, 2022 18:07
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Best Friends posted:it’s a brutal, totalitarian society that also is too weak and soft to accept that they should let millions die to maintain our (their) supply chain. Seriously you can show them the videos from western journalists of the Shanghai protest and the very minimal clashes or arrests and it's like it doesn't register. There is some nefarious secret police that will disappear all of them in a way that nobody will ever notice. All said with the certainty of a gang stalking victim or crisis actor truther.
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Nov 27, 2022 18:10
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A Spherical Sponge posted:Is it ravaging the population though? per capita numbers are still very low relative to basically every other country in the world I'm pretty sure. If they go open biden it won't be thousands of people that die, it will be hundreds of thousands at the very minimum if they're obscenely lucky, more likely millions. And that's not even considering the 10s of millions that will be permanently disabled. Covid 0 might be impossible with the new hyper infectious variants, but imperfect mitigation is much, much better than nothing. just my experience as someone who lived in china from march 2020 - september 2022, and since then has lived in america. In china, because of covid 0, it feels much more real. entire cities being locked down, knowing people that have been home quarantined, businesses being shut down, all that stuff. on the other hand, it really feels like it's over in america. nobody wears masks (90% maskless in nyc and LA) and the deaths are all pretty much ascribed to vacc skeptics or extremely old people. it really has totally disappeared from the public conciousness. it seems like this is a pretty worldwide phenomenon other than china.
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Nov 27, 2022 18:17
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A Spherical Sponge posted:Is it ravaging the population though? per capita numbers are still very low relative to basically every other country in the world I'm pretty sure. If they go open biden it won't be thousands of people that die, it will be hundreds of thousands at the very minimum if they're obscenely lucky, more likely millions. And that's not even considering the 10s of millions that will be permanently disabled. Covid 0 might be impossible with the new hyper infectious variants, but imperfect mitigation is much, much better than nothing. zero covid isn't impossible. current thought revolves around extensive layered defenses where n95 masks, vaccination, ventilation, etc. play a much larger role, with geographically based lockdown and contact tracing as more of a last resort, in keeping Re < 1. last year I was confident that the CPC would contain omicron, but I had also hoped their strategy would have evolved instead of doubling down on the existing strategy, and it's hard to see how it could be maintained in the long run even if they pull off containment once more.
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Nov 27, 2022 18:22
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Mirello posted:just my experience as someone who lived in china from march 2020 - september 2022, and since then has lived in america. In china, because of covid 0, it feels much more real. entire cities being locked down, knowing people that have been home quarantined, businesses being shut down, all that stuff. on the other hand, it really feels like it's over in america. nobody wears masks (90% maskless in nyc and LA) and the deaths are all pretty much ascribed to vacc skeptics or extremely old people. it really has totally disappeared from the public conciousness. it seems like this is a pretty worldwide phenomenon other than china. Oh yeah it's the same in the UK. I think it's mainly a willful ignorance thing, as a psychological defence mechanism. Everyone acts like everything is normal but occasionally you'll overhear people talking about weird symptoms they've had for months after they got sick, or someone who's just dropped out of everyday life because of severe long term consequences from a nasty mystery respiratory infection. It isn't over but everyone has to act like it is. People don't know how to deal with the feeling of an omnipresent invisible threat so they just pretend it doesn't exist. I guess that's more pleasant psychologically than being repeatedly confronted with the existence of COVID due to lockdowns and quarantines, but it's also insane, a collective denial of reality. Zodium posted:zero covid isn't impossible. current thought revolves around extensive layered defenses where n95 masks, vaccination, ventilation, etc. play a much larger role, with geographically based lockdown and contact tracing as more of a last resort, in keeping Re < 1. last year I was confident that the CPC would contain omicron, but I had also hoped their strategy would have evolved instead of doubling down on the existing strategy, and it's hard to see how it could be maintained in the long run even if they pull off containment once more. Yeah I guess mandated layered defences might do the trick. Let's hope that's what they go for instead of just opening up completely.
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Nov 27, 2022 18:35
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Liberals are loving obsessed with other states oppressing their people. Like freaks they get off on that poo poo. Seeing any of forms of civil discontent gives them an endorphin rush. Theyre desperate for it. theyll take anything to maintain the illusion they're the dominant species of all that is good and pure. The more brutal another countries citizens are treated the better the high. When a "internationally recognized" institution like the UN whisper the word genocide into a liberal's ear, their eyes immediately roll back into their skull, their mouth drops open with saliva slipping by their lips, and their consciousness goes into a state of pure euphoria. Nothing will ever beat the high of pure strain mass death.
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Nov 27, 2022 18:45
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https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/27/fauci-china-covid-lab-leak-theory-00070867
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Nov 27, 2022 18:49
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“Even when there’s nothing to hide, they act in a suspicious, non-transparent way,” Fauci said of the Chinese government. 
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Nov 27, 2022 18:51
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Xi step down, step down! - Brandon Boyd, Incubus
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Nov 27, 2022 19:00
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| # ? May 25, 2024 23:01 |
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Seems like the Dynamic Covid-Zero thing has been lacking in dynamism. Naomi Wu has been complaining about them not doing a lot of building ventilation upgrades, among other stuff, for a long time now. Nearly 3 years in and the strategy seems to still be "ah poo poo go back inside again." Probably gonna have to pivot from the lockdowns to the other stuff
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Nov 27, 2022 19:10
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