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Joker casually walking out of a Shibuya back alley with one bag full of grenade launcher and shotgun models, and six sets of Kevlar vests in another, listening to Morgana tell him how Ryuji really needs to keep a lower profile about the phantom thief thing.
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Nov 27, 2022 21:14
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Joker played a lot of RE4 and got really into the inventory management system
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Nov 27, 2022 21:21
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PT6A posted:I mean, you can look at it however you like, I'm not saying you have to love the idea of them getting together, but: they're two teenagers, close in age, who share a mutually-supportive close friendship, and it is an option for them to, mutually and consensually, consider dating each other. Those are the facts of the in-game relationship, everything else is projection. The world would be a much less hosed up place if that was the most problematic romantic relationship that existed. Futaba very obviously looks up to Joker and is heavily dependent on him in a way that is not exactly a good basis for a relationship. She doesn't interact with him like a normal peer/friend (which is more how she interacts with the other Phantom Thieves). Another part of the reason for the "brother" interpretation is that Joker also becomes a sort of adopted child to Sojiro (though this is partly due to the weird "life didn't exist before the start of the game" approach to Persona protagonists). It's not that "Joker dating Futaba" is inherently bizarre (since as you mention the age gap isn't anything weird), but more that the idea of Futaba getting a new found-family member is a far more satisfying and promising outcome. There's also the fact that dating as a teenager is usually going to be mutually exclusive with a long-term close platonic relationship. You can't exactly go back to the found-family thing after dating (or I guess you can, but it'd be really weird). FireWorksWell posted:The anime cutscenes were made at a time when they had a different vision for the game iirc, like relatively early in development. Then they had to adapt them for the new plot. It's interesting trying to figure out what was originally supposed to be happening in them. Like Mirello mentioned, there's a big theme in the cutscenes of characters ogling Ann in ways that they pretty much never do in the game itself. I get the impression Ann is supposed to be more of a main love interest from the anime cutscenes, whereas the main game seems to strongly sell Makoto and generally has a very platonic relationship between Ann and Joker (with the romance option to the s-link seeming really awkward and out of nowhere).
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Nov 27, 2022 21:33
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Almost finished with Royal spoilers: I love Akechi. He's brought back in a dumb "Wait, you survived that completely unsurvivable scenario and aren't going to tell us how?" way but he's just him and I like that they went for that. He's not repentant, he didn't change because of the power of friendship, and he's ok to group with because he doesn't want to kill you at this specific point. He continues to be baffled as to how this group of idiots managed to get anything done. The game probably ends with him sacrificing himself to save Joker because dumb memes but for now it's some really good writing for a game.
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Nov 27, 2022 23:03
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I think the reason people find the Futaba-Joker relationship difficult is that they didn't really meet on equal terms: her social rehabilitation revolves almost entirely around Joker's initiative and guidance. It's a relationship primarily built on dependence until the point where the choice is presented to the player. There's a reason Pygmalion and My Fair Lady end the way they do.
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Nov 27, 2022 23:25
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you can basically ignore her s-link and she ends up fine because the s-links are poorly written and most of the party members drop 15 IQ points during them
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Nov 27, 2022 23:32
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Feels Villeneuve posted:you can basically ignore her s-link and she ends up fine because the s-links are poorly written and most of the party members drop 15 IQ points during them God I miss Persona without the modular storytelling.
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Nov 27, 2022 23:34
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Just about every relationship in the game isn't really on equal terms because Joker is a slient self-insert protagonist and while he is pretty important to the character of development all his pals they don't really have all too much impact on him, especially in the social links.
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Nov 27, 2022 23:35
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Mailer posted:Almost finished with Royal spoilers: I love Akechi. He's brought back in a dumb "Wait, you survived that completely unsurvivable scenario and aren't going to tell us how?" way but he's just him and I like that they went for that. He's not repentant, he didn't change because of the power of friendship, and he's ok to group with because he doesn't want to kill you at this specific point. He continues to be baffled as to how this group of idiots managed to get anything done. The game probably ends with him sacrificing himself to save Joker because dumb memes but for now it's some really good writing for a game. Yeah it rules, everything they did with Akechi in the third semester is perfect. Neeksy posted:I think the reason people find the Futaba-Joker relationship difficult is that they didn't really meet on equal terms: her social rehabilitation revolves almost entirely around Joker's initiative and guidance. It's a relationship primarily built on dependence until the point where the choice is presented to the player. There's a reason Pygmalion and My Fair Lady end the way they do. It's 100% this, at least for me. I could overlook the light sister coding because she isn't Joker's sister and has really only known him for a couple months at most if that was all there was to it. It's that Futaba is emotionally reliant on Joker due to her poor socialization and any romantic relationship between them feels like it would resultingly have an unhealthy uneven power dynamic. And even then, I'd still be a lot less squeamish about it if her S.Link resolved more conclusively with Futaba overcoming her issues and her reliance on Joker, and taking the first step on her own initiative to confess to Joker after that, similar to how (third semester spoilers) Sumire does at the end of her S.Link. That Joker has to be the one to initiate a romance by convincing Futaba her feelings for him are romantic, after everything else that happens in her S.Link, is gross to me. With that said though it's a video game, none of it is real date whoever you want. Hell gently caress the alcoholic mid-30's reporter, who cares.
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Nov 27, 2022 23:38
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people stop making long incredibly weird and creepily paternalistic posts about jrpg party members challenge
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Nov 27, 2022 23:39
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Feels Villeneuve posted:people stop making long incredibly weird and creepily paternalistic posts about jrpg party members challenge you're being weirder about this than anyone else
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Nov 27, 2022 23:44
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Neeksy posted:I think the reason people find the Futaba-Joker relationship difficult is that they didn't really meet on equal terms: her social rehabilitation revolves almost entirely around Joker's initiative and guidance. It's a relationship primarily built on dependence until the point where the choice is presented to the player. There's a reason Pygmalion and My Fair Lady end the way they do. I haven't got the Futaba SL ranked up in my current playthrough, but from what I remember: isn't the whole point that, at the end, she's no longer dependent on Joker? If the romance option were presented at Rank 1: skeevy. At rank 10? Relationships evolve. I have friends who started out as friends with each other, and then started dating. It's not weird, they have a healthy relationship, in contrast to the relationships both of them were in before that. Is it possible, given the circumstances, that one could be taking advantage of the other? I suppose so, but I don't think that's the case. They're both lovely, kind people who get to make their own choices.
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Nov 27, 2022 23:45
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Like, these are reads on the character dynamic that are not only extremely common but actively invited by the game
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Nov 27, 2022 23:46
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Arist posted:you're being weirder about this than anyone else dude I don't want to read long rear end posts attempting psychiatric diagnoses on video game characters which frankly come up with weird and borderline offensive conclusions about people with mental health issues
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Nov 27, 2022 23:48
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No one's diagnosing anyone, dude
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Nov 27, 2022 23:49
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Also, most of these posts are like, three sentences
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Nov 27, 2022 23:50
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The takes that Futaba was supposed to be a kid in an earlier draft or whatever are definitely the worst takes. And frankly just completely stupid.
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Nov 27, 2022 23:51
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I don't think I've ever seen anyone say that, so if anyone was doing that in this thread I must have glossed right over it
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Nov 27, 2022 23:51
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The "It's exploitative of a mentally ill person. Oh, and also incest." is pretty up there on the stupid charts.
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Nov 27, 2022 23:53
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Feels Villeneuve posted:dude I don't want to read long rear end posts attempting psychiatric diagnoses on video game characters which frankly come up with weird and borderline offensive conclusions about people with mental health issues You are (presumably?) referring to my post and I fully invite critique regarding how you think I'm being offensive to people with mental health issues. FWIW I was only talking about my specific issues with the Futaba romance and why I would never personally choose it. What romances people pursue in videogames is not a measuring stick I use for judging others however, hence my caveat at the end that it's a videogame and you should date whoever you want. Or hell date nobody, the scenes you get when not in a romance are pretty wholesome, particularly the Christmas event with Futaba and Sojiro.
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Nov 27, 2022 23:54
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AngryRobotsInc posted:The "It's exploitative of a mentally ill person. Oh, and also incest." is pretty up there on the stupid charts. I don't think anyone's actually saying either of these things though, people just think the vibes are off? They're personally choosing to read the character relationship in a different way because that's how they prefer it.
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Nov 27, 2022 23:54
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AngryRobotsInc posted:The "It's exploitative of a mentally ill person. Oh, and also incest." is pretty up there on the stupid charts. Lotsa bad takes out there. And in here Such is how it goes
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Nov 27, 2022 23:55
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i don't want to get personal but there are reasons for me to get weirded out at the implication that it's unhealthy for people with like, a moderate anxiety disorder to date people or some poo poo
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Nov 27, 2022 23:55
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Feels Villeneuve posted:i don't want to get personal but there are reasons for me to get weirded out at the implication that it's unhealthy for people with like, a moderate anxiety disorder to date people or some poo poo I feel like calling Futaba's issues a "moderate anxiety disorder" is fairly disingenuous, but also, I thought we weren't diagnosing people? The issue people had wasn't that Futaba had anxiety, that's absurd. It was always that she was reliant on the protagonist to some degree.
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Nov 27, 2022 23:58
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me, an adult, choosing which teenager my avatar is going to try to bang because it would be creepy if my avatar dated an adult
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Nov 28, 2022 00:00
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my favourite M stands for Mishima Moment is where Mishima talks about how he is basically responsible for the phantom thieves and potentially deserves all the credit for their success due to him building a website Muskshima
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Nov 28, 2022 00:04
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deleted by admin
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Nov 28, 2022 00:04
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Janitor Ludwich IV posted:my favourite M stands for Mishima Moment is where Mishima talks about how he is basically responsible for the phantom thieves and potentially deserves all the credit for their success due to him building a website He did create the phantom thieves wiki, the most important part
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Nov 28, 2022 00:15
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Perhaps the reason there's as much controversy around the relationship and S.Link is because the base game is poorly written by a guy who doesn't actually understand psychology or society all that well. Like, if it was written better, there could be ways to present these scenarios in a way that doesn't invite people to assume the worst intent.
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Nov 28, 2022 00:17
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Mishima is great because he actually goes through an arc which is more than you can say of most characters in this game.
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Nov 28, 2022 00:17
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That's weird because I played the game and he seemed to always be a loser fail child
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Nov 28, 2022 00:19
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Hellioning posted:Mishima is great because he actually goes through an arc which is more than you can say of most characters in this game. sad but true lol
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Nov 28, 2022 00:19
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Neeksy posted:Perhaps the reason there's as much controversy around the relationship and S.Link is because the base game is poorly written by a guy who doesn't actually understand psychology or society all that well. Like, if it was written better, there could be ways to present these scenarios in a way that doesn't invite people to assume the worst intent. Strikers makes me very excited for a post-Hashino mainline Persona game.
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Nov 28, 2022 00:21
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Come to think of it, relative to the cast of 2 and 4, do the cast of P5 really get to confront their own ugliness or inner demons all that much? It really feels like that aspect of the series kinda fell by the wayside because it was more interested in upselling how bad the villains are and how put-upon each member is. They end up being defined more by their victimhood and revenge than how they really got shaped as people by these things. Of course this is just my memory from the base game of P5, so feel free to correct anything I'm misjudging here.
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Nov 28, 2022 00:21
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Feels Villeneuve posted:That's weird because I played the game and he seemed to always be a loser fail child He is always a loser fail child but he grows to accept it and resolves to do better as opposed to growing into a worse person. Neeksy posted:Come to think of it, relative to the cast of 2 and 4, do the cast of P5 really get to confront their own ugliness or inner demons all that much? Not really. Like Ann and Makoto apologize to each other for judging each other based on first impressions but other than that no. Then again the P4 cast barely confront their own ugliness that much so.
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Nov 28, 2022 00:24
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Feels Villeneuve posted:That's weird because I played the game and he seemed to always be a loser fail child This is why he's good, because its funny.
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Nov 28, 2022 00:24
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He should have showed up in strikers. There's even a perfect excuse for him to do so
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Nov 28, 2022 00:25
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Nah, he's kind of a loser. I wouldn't hang out with him on Summer break
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Nov 28, 2022 00:25
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Hellioning posted:Then again the P4 cast barely confront their own ugliness that much so. Yosuke confronts his ugliness and resolves to spend the rest of the game being an insecure, homophobic bully who constantly creeps on the female party members.
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Nov 28, 2022 00:27
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Nah, he's kind of a loser. I wouldn't hang out with him on Summer break It's great how Royal spends even more time driving home that the group just barely tolerates Mishima.
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Nov 28, 2022 00:29
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