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OwlFancier posted:My whole family is like that to a greater or lesser degree, and they can only serve as something to strive not to be. Sorry to hear that  In my situation, I tried to draw boundary lines, she but stepped over them and dug trenches, so I did a full retreat. I disconnected from my brother over a decade ago over similar reasons and haven't looked back.
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Dec 2, 2022 04:29
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I know better people, and I did have relatives who were better in some ways (grandmother was quite economically left but was also very racist, had she lived longer I think she would have ended up probably being more racist than left) but eh, they've always been like that. No use in hoping for something from them that you'll never get. The relationship can remain transactional and I can save care for those who deserve it.
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Dec 2, 2022 04:35
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I would have become (remained?) a racist homophobic Tory had I not dropped out of Uni to become a musical bum. When I was at school, my goal was to have a docklands flat, stripy shirts, a huge mobile phone & Filofax, and drink in posh wine bars. I've changed a lot since then. lol
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Dec 2, 2022 04:43
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Weirdly I never really picked up on the politics of the bulk of my family, to the extent I had any political leanings before signing up here it was probably based on my grandmother occasionally opining out of nowhere "the only good tory is a dead tory" and while the rest of my lot are pretty right wing they just sort of... get on with it rather than talking about it most of the time, or at least they don't talk to me about it probably because they know they won't get anywhere. So while here has certainly helped put an edge on my views I had a better starting point than a lot of people. If anything, though, I find the quiet toryism to be its own kind of deeply unpleasant, like they are so very secure with those ideas and I don't even know if they can imagine that they could be wrong about them. Everything is effortlessly folded into that worldview, things which show it to be nonsense are quietly forgotten, and things I think are deeply objectionable don't even register to them. I don't think they even realise that they hurt others around them or that a lot of the ways they interact with people are predicated on them having more money or power over them, and they confuse the deference of survival for esteem.
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Dec 2, 2022 04:51
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The brainworms burrowed in deep very early, and spread their poison far. So glad to finally escape to university towards the end of the 80s... (the crowd goes wild) ...and find it infested with thatcherite bootlickers. (crowd goes sullen again)
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Dec 2, 2022 05:37
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Mebh posted:https://twitter.com/PoliticsJOE_UK/status/1598335186940227584 A nation of Sackville-Bagginses
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Dec 2, 2022 06:47
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Mebh posted:https://twitter.com/PoliticsJOE_UK/status/1598335186940227584 https://twitter.com/bbcarchive/status/1092120538259038209
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Dec 2, 2022 07:00
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Mebh posted:https://twitter.com/PoliticsJOE_UK/status/1598335186940227584 What a parade of absolute fools.. While I agree with the poster who said these vox pops always try to find the worst of the worst: people like this are the majority on this crooked Isle, and that's why we've been as hosed as we have been for the past 12+ years. They do at least generally keep it bottled up, but give them a platform and out it comes. Completely thoughtless parroting of other people's terrible opinions and catchphrases. I work with a woman who would fit in well with this bunch. It makes no sense to me: she is a happy, generous woman, who works with clients all over the world helping them get set up on our software. Seems so pleasant, but if the conversation turns to politics it's: "The reason Brexit is a good thing is you have Europeans coming over here and clogging up our hospitals!" "This used to be a nation of strivers, not shirkers!" "Boris Johnson knows what's best for our country, he'll sort everyone out, he's no nonsense!" And like...she WEPT at the leaving party of one of our Spanish colleagues who quit & moved home after Brexit, begging him not to go. She has all sorts of health issues, praises the NHS and the staff she encounters from other countries. But she has these idiotic talking points embedded, and it's nigh-impossible to get them out.
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Dec 2, 2022 08:53
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Wish i could give OwlFancier and Fuctifino my mum. She read the telegraph her whole life, would say things like "aren't they cold?" and "but why do they have to come HERE??" about anyone with a darker skin complexion. But then as I got radicalised from a young tory to a liberal at uni (lol) and then thanks to this thread and SA realised what a loving tool I was, I kept talking to her. She just... Changed? She basically saw that I used to believe a load of old bollocks and if I could change my mind and say that I was an idiot she wasn't going to be left behind. She still says the odd nutty thing because she's terminally old, but she entirely agrees gently caress the conservatives, gently caress capitalism and also gently caress labour right now and votes green until such time as the situation changes and something better comes along. Mebh fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Dec 2, 2022 |
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Dec 2, 2022 09:22
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My relatives are a complete mixed bag from raving loony left to raving loony right. Dad was always quite leftish on most things and on gays in the 70s he would say stuff like 'they need sympathy and understanding' (even though he thought they should stay celibate - he knew several celibate gays from people he knew in monasteries). Mum an ardent royalist and back in the 70s 'lock up gays' now she's much more ok with gays, trans, anyone really. Mum refers to Israel, my aunt - also 85 - refuses to call it Israel and refers to Palestine. My card-carrying tory party member brother is also pro-Palestinian. My sister-in-law and I agreed to a large extent on various social issues, but she veered off into racism and UKIP while I obviously didn't. One of my nans was ardent Labour always going on about 'the nobs' and headed up a strike at her factory during the general strike, but a terrible racist (perfect UKIPer had they been going back then). Grandad - her husband was a Working Class Tory - you should know your place. Meanwhile my other nan, not a racist at all, but always voted tory, my grandad on her side used to be a supporter of The Daily Worker (which morphed into the Morning Star) and she used to tell me how on weekends in her street (in a midlands town), all the women were tory and all the men were labour and they would stand at opposite sides of the street calling each other names.
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Dec 2, 2022 09:47
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not even watching that vox pop video both for my blood pressure and because as mentioned they largely select the voices they want heard but they wouldn't have had to go very far on canvey to find the voices they wanted because it's full of white flight from london, even compared with the rest of essex
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Dec 2, 2022 09:48
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It's a similar story with me, a lot of the Tories and sympathisers I grew up with changed their views over time because honestly it looked like they were mostly voting along lines that were familiar and osmosed from the papers, and kind of evaporated at the smallest amount of conversation about it. Some topics took longer than others. But a surprising amount of it was just not being exposed to counter arguments because of how well gatekept properly left wing voices are Might just be confirmation bias because the really entrenched ones... Well we just stopped talking to them  I mean we weren't trying to be mean we just had so many things we couldn't talk about and after a while it gets tiring stepping around each other. Like my COVID truther transphobic brother who I'll next see at my mum's funeral.
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Dec 2, 2022 09:55
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I took a shirt to get some alterations done by someone local. I commented that her prices were good and she could get away with charging more. "Yeah but if I charge more I'd have to pay more tax, and I don't want my money going to people on benefits".
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Dec 2, 2022 09:56
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We get all the same lovely papers and propaganda in Scotland, but somehow I feel that the level of insane tory brainworms are distinctly less here. Maybe it gets channelled into Scottish Nationalism or something, I dunno, but at least it doesn't seem manifest as readily as the "gas the scroungers/send em back/hang those who bum the poppy" rhetoric you see in the media south of the border. Maybe it's just because we only really see vox pops on UK wide media, and whenever the cameras come north it's just some old granny saying "I'm glad Thatchers dead and furthermore...!". keep punching joe fucked around with this message at 10:04 on Dec 2, 2022 |
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Dec 2, 2022 10:00
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Sir Sidney Poitier posted:I took a shirt to get some alterations done by someone local. I commented that her prices were good and she could get away with charging more. Meanwhile, I don't want my money stuffing tory crony wallets.
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Dec 2, 2022 10:06
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As always, this has been a good reminder that most people's politics are completely incoherent and the average punter is loving thick
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Dec 2, 2022 10:09
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Reminds me of a saying whose origin I don't know: "Imagine the thickest person you know. Most people are thicker than that."
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Dec 2, 2022 10:13
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Failed Imagineer posted:the average punter is loving thick One thing I really hate is whenever you say this, you are always greeted with a load of well-meaning people who say that they’re not stupid or bad people, they are just misinformed and you shouldn’t look down on them. No, some people are just loving horrible and stupid and they hate everyone who doesn’t look or think like them because they are nasty. It’s OK to admit that, and not try to court that part of the electorate.
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Dec 2, 2022 10:14
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I don't think people really believe half of this poo poo that they say. It's more like a prayer card where if you keep repeating the lines then you'll be protected from the worst of the lovely hell you helped to sculpt. That's why it often crumbles completely the minute its challenged with something equally simplistic like "I'd rather have the benefits there in case I ever needed them" or "at least it's all spent in the local economy and not sitting in some offshore bank account" (often just replaced with ranting about foreigners though, ymmv)
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Dec 2, 2022 10:17
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happyhippy posted:Ive been mulling for a while if I could post that vox pops like this are fake as gently caress no matter the left or right. Voting Labour is entirely consistent with what the people in this video want. Controls on immigration, benefit freezes, offshoring asylum seekers, the whole works
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Dec 2, 2022 11:31
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vox pops are anything but and i wouldnt pay them any mind they film 40+ and then hand select 3-4 to fit the editoral line, that's all it is
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Dec 2, 2022 11:34
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Rustybear posted:vox pops are anything but and i wouldnt pay them any mind Monty Python knew vox pops were full of poo poo back in 1969
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Dec 2, 2022 11:36
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Tarnop posted:Voting Labour is entirely consistent with what the people in this video want. Controls on immigration, benefit freezes, offshoring asylum seekers, the whole works Yeah but why vote kinda fash when you can vote total fash?
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Dec 2, 2022 11:36
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fuctifino posted:We have massive ideological differences to the point where she supports everything the Tories are doing, despite having a disabled son who's campaigned on disability issues for 16+ years. Like it's happened so many times I genuinely don't think that they're backtracking, I think they genuinely have exceptions to these hard rules for people they know. Even when the extent of these rules run up to and including conscripting the unemployed or letting them die on the streets. But not you, obviously. I've imagined them as lazy thieves, but you have issues I can see, you're an exception. It's what enabled David Cameron to claim disability for his son, and then start dismantling the entire system the second the funeral was over. OwlFancier posted:My whole family is like that to a greater or lesser degree, and they can only serve as something to strive not to be. My mam particularly, she keeps repeating talking points from the Mail and I've just kind of gotten used to it, because we do have some good conversations where she'll ask (for example) what gaslighting is or what transgender is because it's a word she's heard. But there's a venom to some of her opinions now that I don't remember growing up, particularly when it comes to who and what is destroying the country. But my dad's the one worrying me the most, because there's just the odd thing he'll say. Like with energy prices, I was telling him about how half the reason energy prices are so high is because centrica sold off our storage, and I thought he'd appreciate that because I grew up with him thundering about the house complaining about the latest thing they'd changed to make his life difficult. But no, he said they'd sold them off because they were targets for terrorism. He's absolutely convinced that the prices are only high because of the Ukraine despite us only getting like 8% of our gas from Russia, but there's just so much about the situation I'd have to memorise, and I realise now that's how it's so easy for the contrarians to get their hooks in. Someone can memorise simple solutions and easy answers on a wide range of subjects, but if you want to refute them properly you need to memorise a more complex and informed explaination, and there are just too many lines of attack. Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 11:43 on Dec 2, 2022 |
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Dec 2, 2022 11:38
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Rarity posted:Yeah but why vote kinda fash when you can vote total fash? 
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Dec 2, 2022 11:41
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Rarity posted:Yeah but why vote kinda fash when you can vote total fash?  
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Dec 2, 2022 11:41
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Rarity posted:Yeah but why vote kinda fash when you can vote total fash? 
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Dec 2, 2022 11:46
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Rarity posted:Yeah but why vote kinda fash when you can vote total fash? I'm saying the idea that this video presents a skewed set of opinions by excluding those who said they'd vote Labour is wrong. Voting for Labour as it stands now is a vote for the opinions expressed in the video. Also, Labour are to the right of the Tories on benefits (argued against IDS when he said benefits should rise with inflation) and asylum seeker deportations (we should be doing it faster and cheaper) so I don't know that the "kinda fash" argument holds up on the two main issues raised
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Dec 2, 2022 11:46
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Julio Cruz posted:there is one good carol and it’s Peter Warlock’s Bethlehem Down Winter solstice songs, on the other hand. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-aic4qHQWA
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Dec 2, 2022 12:06
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Bobby Deluxe posted:The most frustrating version of this is the people who'll get halfway through a rant to me about the unemployed and how they're all just lazy, laying in bed all day, never do a day's work; and then go "Oh, but not you of course." I looked at the Scum yesterday as they had an article on money saving measures, and some were aimed at those on benefits (as in helping them by advising them on what they might be entitled to). The Scum is one of the worst for going on about scroungers and strivers and claimants yet must have a readership including claimants! I think there's little point trying to refute some of these with evidence - the right seriously do not give a fig for data and evidence. Makes me laugh because a rightwing friend posted something on fb yesterday saying there was no point trying to argue with the woke left because they didn't care about evidence and 'the silent majority' all agree with her. LOL. I didn't comment. I'm ignoring her posts unless it's a cat picture or 'happy birthday' or some such.
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Dec 2, 2022 12:14
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Sir Sidney Poitier posted:Or campari and sweet vermouth. The correct answer.
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Dec 2, 2022 12:15
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I read somewhere that conservatives tend to be kind, generous people to those they personally know but have zero compassion for those they don't. Stories in this thread would seem to confirm that.
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Dec 2, 2022 12:17
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escapegoat posted:I read somewhere that conservatives tend to be kind, generous people to those they personally know but have zero compassion for those they don't. Stories in this thread would seem to confirm that. It's people that believe they know and understand everything in the universe based entirely on what they have personally seen and experienced so far in life. They don't want to admit they're wrong or bad people when confronted with difficult situations, so just make new exceptions as and when they are needed to excuse treating unknowns completely differently to actual people they have met
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Dec 2, 2022 12:24
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Appropriately, I just had an email from Verso Books: https://www.versobooks.com/lists/5504-radicalize-your-niblings Radicalize Your Niblings! This year you call them family, next year call them comrade. 10 books for the young relatives! 
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Dec 2, 2022 12:29
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https://twitter.com/kuntandthegang/status/1598581985596743680
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Dec 2, 2022 12:42
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Sir Sidney Poitier posted:Reminds me of a saying whose origin I don't know: "Imagine the thickest person you know. Most people are thicker than that." Is it not "Think how thick the average person is. 50% of people are thicker than that."
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Dec 2, 2022 12:42
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That phrasing does make more sense, but I prefer my version.
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Dec 2, 2022 12:46
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The Saj won't be standing at the next election. Apparently the deadline for deciding one way or the other is Monday so we might see a few more fun announcements on this line over the weekend.
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Dec 2, 2022 12:47
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Rustybear posted:vox pops are anything but and i wouldnt pay them any mind Having done lots and lots of voxpops I can assure you no one in TV spends time getting 40 voxpops lol. You find the nearest street (BBC News used to be so lazy they wouldn’t even go to Shepherds Bush green and just always did them at Wood Lane tube across the road from TVC). You do as few as possible until you’ve found 6 vaguely coherent people who aren’t insane or foamingly racist and don’t mind being filmed (which is not many) and come back and use the best 3.
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Dec 2, 2022 13:05
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The real self selecting criteria for vox pops is that they do them in the middle of a weekday outside of the nearest chain pub.
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Dec 2, 2022 13:12
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