Frosted Flake posted:

We’ve talked before about the state of Western Militaries, with the social contract being broken, erosion of benefits, stagnant pay, abuse and harassment and general low morale. The CAF is 10k pers short with no signs of that changing.

Well I want to point out that liberalism cannot offer solutions to the problems it creates. An article came out that I spent my entire day in meetings about with more to come: The Canadian Armed Forces are heading for a Titanic collapse

Now I want to preface that I agree with nearly all of the problems. The solutions, to turn the military into essentially a private sector corporate job with no tradition and esprit de corps, to me illustrate the alienating nature of liberalism. It’s not about inspiring belief or belonging or giving something soldiers to die for and instead trying to obfuscate that as much as possible and turn the military into a job - the implicit part is that no meaning can be expected from it, no duty or purpose, and in exchange the state will offer nothing more than a paycheque:

“Marching in lines, stamping feet on parade grounds and keeping with traditional uniforms – these should also be done away with. These rituals are simply not relevant to the citizens who must make up the force of the future; they reflect the reality that Canada’s military is stuck in the past.”

“Nobody wants to work in an old, tired organization that draws its culture and values from a museum; people want to be part of an agile organization that rewards modern values. The Canadian Armed Forces needs to abandon its sternward perspective on legacy force structure and missions – or it won’t be able to bail out the sinking ship.”

Without getting into the deep body of literature on the subject, close order drill, marching, uniforms, these all have a social purpose, and my theory here is that because liberalism doesn’t conceive of things socially but individually they see harebrained schemes like this as a solution to endemic problems instead of a further erosion of what soldiering means. Deep, felt, social, meaning is something disappearing from all areas of our society but again going back to the Egyptian Old Kingdom, militaries need these things to function.

I’m curious what the feeling is here because people on the left have observed this cultural shift, with the officer corps becoming more like a corporate PMC and enlisted Operator Culture becoming more about individual advancement and a sort of professional athlete ethos. I get why the initial reaction from left leaning people is “who cares?” and “marching is dumb”, but my point is that if liberalisms alienating impulses and disconnection from social meaning have penetrated to something so essential as the functioning of the state - in preference to the basic social contract of improving material conditions: pay, benefits, housing, education, pensions, an end to workplace abuse - this line of thinking permeates all levels of decision making.

Frosted Flake posted:

We’ve talked before about the state of Western Militaries, with the social contract being broken, erosion of benefits, stagnant pay, abuse and harassment and general low morale. The CAF is 10k pers short with no signs of that changing.

Well I want to point out that liberalism cannot offer solutions to the problems it creates. An article came out that I spent my entire day in meetings about with more to come: The Canadian Armed Forces are heading for a Titanic collapse

Now I want to preface that I agree with nearly all of the problems. The solutions, to turn the military into essentially a private sector corporate job with no tradition and esprit de corps, to me illustrate the alienating nature of liberalism. It’s not about inspiring belief or belonging or giving something soldiers to die for and instead trying to obfuscate that as much as possible and turn the military into a job - the implicit part is that no meaning can be expected from it, no duty or purpose, and in exchange the state will offer nothing more than a paycheque:

“Marching in lines, stamping feet on parade grounds and keeping with traditional uniforms – these should also be done away with. These rituals are simply not relevant to the citizens who must make up the force of the future; they reflect the reality that Canada’s military is stuck in the past.”

“Nobody wants to work in an old, tired organization that draws its culture and values from a museum; people want to be part of an agile organization that rewards modern values. The Canadian Armed Forces needs to abandon its sternward perspective on legacy force structure and missions – or it won’t be able to bail out the sinking ship.”

Without getting into the deep body of literature on the subject, close order drill, marching, uniforms, these all have a social purpose, and my theory here is that because liberalism doesn’t conceive of things socially but individually they see harebrained schemes like this as a solution to endemic problems instead of a further erosion of what soldiering means. Deep, felt, social, meaning is something disappearing from all areas of our society but again going back to the Egyptian Old Kingdom, militaries need these things to function.

I’m curious what the feeling is here because people on the left have observed this cultural shift, with the officer corps becoming more like a corporate PMC and enlisted Operator Culture becoming more about individual advancement and a sort of professional athlete ethos. I get why the initial reaction from left leaning people is “who cares?” and “marching is dumb”, but my point is that if liberalisms alienating impulses and disconnection from social meaning have penetrated to something so essential as the functioning of the state - in preference to the basic social contract of improving material conditions: pay, benefits, housing, education, pensions, an end to workplace abuse - this line of thinking permeates all levels of decision making.

Frosted Flake posted:

We’ve talked before about the state of Western Militaries, with the social contract being broken, erosion of benefits, stagnant pay, abuse and harassment and general low morale. The CAF is 10k pers short with no signs of that changing.

Well I want to point out that liberalism cannot offer solutions to the problems it creates. An article came out that I spent my entire day in meetings about with more to come: The Canadian Armed Forces are heading for a Titanic collapse

Now I want to preface that I agree with nearly all of the problems. The solutions, to turn the military into essentially a private sector corporate job with no tradition and esprit de corps, to me illustrate the alienating nature of liberalism. It’s not about inspiring belief or belonging or giving something soldiers to die for and instead trying to obfuscate that as much as possible and turn the military into a job - the implicit part is that no meaning can be expected from it, no duty or purpose, and in exchange the state will offer nothing more than a paycheque:

“Marching in lines, stamping feet on parade grounds and keeping with traditional uniforms – these should also be done away with. These rituals are simply not relevant to the citizens who must make up the force of the future; they reflect the reality that Canada’s military is stuck in the past.”

“Nobody wants to work in an old, tired organization that draws its culture and values from a museum; people want to be part of an agile organization that rewards modern values. The Canadian Armed Forces needs to abandon its sternward perspective on legacy force structure and missions – or it won’t be able to bail out the sinking ship.”

Without getting into the deep body of literature on the subject, close order drill, marching, uniforms, these all have a social purpose, and my theory here is that because liberalism doesn’t conceive of things socially but individually they see harebrained schemes like this as a solution to endemic problems instead of a further erosion of what soldiering means. Deep, felt, social, meaning is something disappearing from all areas of our society but again going back to the Egyptian Old Kingdom, militaries need these things to function.

I’m curious what the feeling is here because people on the left have observed this cultural shift, with the officer corps becoming more like a corporate PMC and enlisted Operator Culture becoming more about individual advancement and a sort of professional athlete ethos. I get why the initial reaction from left leaning people is “who cares?” and “marching is dumb”, but my point is that if liberalisms alienating impulses and disconnection from social meaning have penetrated to something so essential as the functioning of the state - in preference to the basic social contract of improving material conditions: pay, benefits, housing, education, pensions, an end to workplace abuse - this line of thinking permeates all levels of decision making.

Frosted Flake posted:

We’ve talked before about the state of Western Militaries, with the social contract being broken, erosion of benefits, stagnant pay, abuse and harassment and general low morale. The CAF is 10k pers short with no signs of that changing.

Well I want to point out that liberalism cannot offer solutions to the problems it creates. An article came out that I spent my entire day in meetings about with more to come: The Canadian Armed Forces are heading for a Titanic collapse

Now I want to preface that I agree with nearly all of the problems. The solutions, to turn the military into essentially a private sector corporate job with no tradition and esprit de corps, to me illustrate the alienating nature of liberalism. It’s not about inspiring belief or belonging or giving something soldiers to die for and instead trying to obfuscate that as much as possible and turn the military into a job - the implicit part is that no meaning can be expected from it, no duty or purpose, and in exchange the state will offer nothing more than a paycheque:

“Marching in lines, stamping feet on parade grounds and keeping with traditional uniforms – these should also be done away with. These rituals are simply not relevant to the citizens who must make up the force of the future; they reflect the reality that Canada’s military is stuck in the past.”

“Nobody wants to work in an old, tired organization that draws its culture and values from a museum; people want to be part of an agile organization that rewards modern values. The Canadian Armed Forces needs to abandon its sternward perspective on legacy force structure and missions – or it won’t be able to bail out the sinking ship.”

Without getting into the deep body of literature on the subject, close order drill, marching, uniforms, these all have a social purpose, and my theory here is that because liberalism doesn’t conceive of things socially but individually they see harebrained schemes like this as a solution to endemic problems instead of a further erosion of what soldiering means. Deep, felt, social, meaning is something disappearing from all areas of our society but again going back to the Egyptian Old Kingdom, militaries need these things to function.

I’m curious what the feeling is here because people on the left have observed this cultural shift, with the officer corps becoming more like a corporate PMC and enlisted Operator Culture becoming more about individual advancement and a sort of professional athlete ethos. I get why the initial reaction from left leaning people is “who cares?” and “marching is dumb”, but my point is that if liberalisms alienating impulses and disconnection from social meaning have penetrated to something so essential as the functioning of the state - in preference to the basic social contract of improving material conditions: pay, benefits, housing, education, pensions, an end to workplace abuse - this line of thinking permeates all levels of decision making.

Majorian posted:

I think you need to keep in mind who’s writing the tweet in question. This isn’t someone who is publicly in favor of a green agenda that’s actually effective, and wants Russia clear out the Western European CIA-funded Green Parties for that purpose. It’s someone who works for a petrostate. She’s not against an ineffective green agenda; she’s against any green agenda, because she is paid to do so. Just like the spokespeople for the US government.

e: more to the point, if you want the real culprit behind the demise of the European green movement, look no further than cheap petroleum and natural gas prices.

Frosted Flake posted:

We’ve talked before about the state of Western Militaries, with the social contract being broken, erosion of benefits, stagnant pay, abuse and harassment and general low morale. The CAF is 10k pers short with no signs of that changing.

Well I want to point out that liberalism cannot offer solutions to the problems it creates. An article came out that I spent my entire day in meetings about with more to come: The Canadian Armed Forces are heading for a Titanic collapse

Now I want to preface that I agree with nearly all of the problems. The solutions, to turn the military into essentially a private sector corporate job with no tradition and esprit de corps, to me illustrate the alienating nature of liberalism. It’s not about inspiring belief or belonging or giving something soldiers to die for and instead trying to obfuscate that as much as possible and turn the military into a job - the implicit part is that no meaning can be expected from it, no duty or purpose, and in exchange the state will offer nothing more than a paycheque:

“Marching in lines, stamping feet on parade grounds and keeping with traditional uniforms – these should also be done away with. These rituals are simply not relevant to the citizens who must make up the force of the future; they reflect the reality that Canada’s military is stuck in the past.”

“Nobody wants to work in an old, tired organization that draws its culture and values from a museum; people want to be part of an agile organization that rewards modern values. The Canadian Armed Forces needs to abandon its sternward perspective on legacy force structure and missions – or it won’t be able to bail out the sinking ship.”

Without getting into the deep body of literature on the subject, close order drill, marching, uniforms, these all have a social purpose, and my theory here is that because liberalism doesn’t conceive of things socially but individually they see harebrained schemes like this as a solution to endemic problems instead of a further erosion of what soldiering means. Deep, felt, social, meaning is something disappearing from all areas of our society but again going back to the Egyptian Old Kingdom, militaries need these things to function.

I’m curious what the feeling is here because people on the left have observed this cultural shift, with the officer corps becoming more like a corporate PMC and enlisted Operator Culture becoming more about individual advancement and a sort of professional athlete ethos. I get why the initial reaction from left leaning people is “who cares?” and “marching is dumb”, but my point is that if liberalisms alienating impulses and disconnection from social meaning have penetrated to something so essential as the functioning of the state - in preference to the basic social contract of improving material conditions: pay, benefits, housing, education, pensions, an end to workplace abuse - this line of thinking permeates all levels of decision making.

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://mobile.twitter.com/soren2point0/status/1598625946457686023

Lostconfused posted:

When the gently caress did Japan manage colonize China again?

Frosted Flake posted:

I’m curious what the feeling is here because people on the left have observed this cultural shift, with the officer corps becoming more like a corporate PMC and enlisted Operator Culture becoming more about individual advancement and a sort of professional athlete ethos. I get why the initial reaction from left leaning people is “who cares?” and “marching is dumb”, but my point is that if liberalisms alienating impulses and disconnection from social meaning have penetrated to something so essential as the functioning of the state - in preference to the basic social contract of improving material conditions: pay, benefits, housing, education, pensions, an end to workplace abuse - this line of thinking permeates all levels of decision making.

OhFunny posted:

Sweden extradites convicted PKK member to Turkey

Mahmut Tat was sentenced to six years and 10 months in jail for PKK membership in Turkey. He then fled to Sweden in 2015, but his asylum request was rejected.

That's one of the 33 PKK members in Sweden and Finland Turkey wants before signing off on their membership to NATO now in Turkish custody.

mawarannahr posted:

Once again, I’m shocked that the structures of a rules-based social democratic order that were promised to prevent this from happening did not prevent this from happening.

Tankbuster posted:

their audience is Hearts of Iron 4 players like Rimmy Downunder.

Southpaugh posted:

Its an outside actor commenting on the wests indecision and division. It's very apparent that europe has committed vast economic sabotage at the americans behest. This probably still confuses some russians, that they don't understand exactly how much anti soviet/anti russian propaganda has completely infused the western perspective. Russias ruling class is the national bourgeois, same as europe and the US.


gently caress green politicians btw - we should all be building nuclear reactors.

Majorian posted:

I understand, but I think the U.S.' role in hobbling Europe's nuclear energy programs is smaller than you're assuming. Germany's anti-nuclear energy movement started in earnest in the 70s, back when the U.S. had a lot of money invested in building new plants. Denuclearization was against U.S. economic interests up until recently. Accidents like Three-Mile Island and Chernobyl really sent it into overdrive. Siemens, which built all of Germany's reactors, fully exited the nuclear sector after Fukushima. I agree with you that Germany should have been building reactors this whole time, and that the public response to these accidents was incredibly stupid. But I'm sorry to say that it was a largely organic response. The German public has no one to blame but themselves.

Kindest Forums User posted:

I saw this on Reddits front page
https://www.reuters.com/world/ukraine-war-shows-europe-too-reliant-us-finland-pm-says-2022-12-02/


After just reading the headline, I initially thought it was a sensible dose of reality with someone actually pushing back on the United States influence and control over the EU. But no, lol, it's just the fresh new progressive Scandinavian superstar politician requesting that EU nations grow their domestic MIC.

Majorian posted:

The German public has no one to blame but themselves.

i say swears online posted:

the recent report about euros getting mad that the US is making money off the war was very funny

OhFunny posted:

Sweden extradites convicted PKK member to Turkey

Mahmut Tat was sentenced to six years and 10 months in jail for PKK membership in Turkey. He then fled to Sweden in 2015, but his asylum request was rejected.

That's one of the 33 PKK members in Sweden and Finland Turkey wants before signing off on their membership to NATO now in Turkish custody.

i say swears online posted:

the recent report about euros getting mad that the US is making money off the war was very funny

speng31b posted:

speng31b posted:

Flocons de Jambon posted:

Canada needs to adopt East German style integration of the education system with military training. Kids need to be instructed how to field strip a C7 instead of getting high school credit for Yoga.

Majorian posted:

I'm sorry to say that it was a largely organic response. The German public has no one to blame but themselves.

mawarannahr posted:

Extemtky leftist thoughts going on here