|
By the way, my pet idea about Nen categories is that Specialization is less of a catch-all than it appears to be. Almost every Specialist we see fits into one of three sub-categories, which we might call Theft (Chrollo, Leol, Kurapica); Divination (Neon, Pakunoda); and Negation (Meleoron, Prince T). Neferpitou is a weird case because they’re explicitly a Specialist, but almost everything we actually see them do seems like Manipulation.
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2022 18:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 00:04 |
|
|
Well, we've only seen eleven specialists, and you're fudging things a bit by classifying Kurapika under "power theft" when his real Specialist ability is to improve his other Nen affinities. Also, I don't really see how Meleoron and Tserri's powers are similar beyond deceiving people's senses. Neon and Pakunoda aren't particularly similar either: Pakunoda reads and implants memories; Neon reads the future. I think what's happening isn't that there are a few fixed categories of specialist powers. It's that there are a few kinds of powers that have come up multiple times (meta-powers; powers with no physical component; sensory tricks) and don't fit into any of the other categories. Elephant Parade fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Nov 30, 2022 |
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2022 20:41
|
|
|
Elephant Parade posted:Well, we've only seen eleven specialists, and you're fudging things a bit by classifying Kurapika under "power theft" when his real Specialist ability is to improve his other Nen affinities. Also, I don't really see how Meleoron and Tserri's powers are similar beyond deceiving people's senses. Neon and Pakunoda aren't particularly similar either: Pakunoda reads and implants memories; Neon reads the future. Meleoron and Tserri are similar because their powers are both advanced forms of Zetsu. (Meleoron’s is a better version of In, which is itself an advanced form of Zetsu.) Sort of the opposite of what Enhancers and Emitters do with their Hatsus, which are more like advanced forms of Ren. Pakunoda and Neon are similar because they grant information directly. Binolt (not explicitly confirmed as a Specialist) also has an ability like that.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2022 21:31
|
|
|
Also, I believe we only know of 10 Specialists, including Binolt and Alluka, not 11. Meruem is actually an Emitter, if that’s who you were thinking of. Having said that, I just realized that the recent confirmation that Alluka is a Specialist (as opposed to something outside the Nen system entirely, as some people assumed) probably spoils my theory. Edit: Well, I guess it’s possible that Alluka is a Specialist but Nanika is outside the Nen system. Edit 2: Oh right, Hina is a Specialist too. But she’s also an Exorcist (an explicit in-universe category), so she doesn’t challenge the idea of Specialization having clear sub-categories the way Alluka does. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Nov 30, 2022 |
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2022 21:55
|
|
|
Silver2195 posted:Also, I believe we only know of 10 Specialists, including Binolt and Alluka, not 11. Meruem is actually an Emitter, if that’s who you were thinking of. Having said that, I just realized that the recent confirmation that Alluka is a Specialist (as opposed to something outside the Nen system entirely, as some people assumed) probably spoils my theory. To be pedantic, only Nanika was confirmed a specialist that says nothing about whether the Ai use nen or not. Hina also doesn't need to be a specialist to be an exorcist since Abengane, and Kurapikas Steal Chain both remove abilities and only use conjuration.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2022 22:11
|
|
|
https://onepiecechapters.com/chapters/5554/hunter-x-hunter-chapter-397
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2022 18:42
|
|
|
Man… I knew what was coming, but I still wasn’t ready for that panel where Chrollo opens the bag. I’m a little surprised that Sheila left without any acknowledgment from the rest. It definitely seemed like she wasn’t onboard with becoming a killer, but we only see a single panel of her walking away.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2022 19:52
|
|
|
I haven't decided how I feel about the Troupe having good intentions in some way, shape, or form, but I really like the idea that Chrollo has inadvertently created another kid who wants to be the scariest mfer on earth by killing the Kurta clan. who wants to bet it was a Kurta kinsman who killed Sarasa?
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2022 19:57
|
|
|
grieving for Gandalf posted:I haven't decided how I feel about the Troupe having good intentions in some way, shape, or form, but I really like the idea that Chrollo has inadvertently created another kid who wants to be the scariest mfer on earth by killing the Kurta clan. who wants to bet it was a Kurta kinsman who killed Sarasa? we were told back in Yorkshin that they do Philanthropic work so this honestly isn't too much a surprise that they did something right in this messed up world. Doesn't excuse everything else they did but I chuckle that Chrollo set up some website to bait those sickos into tipping their hat as to Sarasa's murder. Also Machi's mentor is a nice addition to the plot we'll probably never see again. Does explain her abilities first use in stitching up Hisoka's arms and how she planned to patch up his body after he died to Chrollo.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2022 20:01
|
|
|
ThatBasqueGuy posted:its not her fault musclegirls never took off in hxhworld This world is imperfect.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2022 20:19
|
|
|
I think people need patience. There is more story to come, I doubt it will as simple as 'the Troupe were good guys all along and they were on a revenge path and the times where it seemed they killed innocents was actually other guys'. There are more years in between what we have seen in chapters 396/397and the current events. At some point they lost their way, I guess. Killing people can be a gate toward doing small atrocities, which can be a gate towards big atrocities.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2022 21:04
|
|
|
Turin Turambar posted:I think people need patience. There is more story to come, I doubt it will as simple as 'the Troupe were good guys all along and they were on a revenge path and the times where it seemed they killed innocents was actually other guys'. There are more years in between what we have seen in chapters 396/397and the current events. At some point they lost their way, I guess. Killing people can be a gate toward doing small atrocities, which can be a gate towards big atrocities. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2022 21:24
|
|
|
Turin Turambar posted:I think people need patience. There is more story to come, I doubt it will as simple as 'the Troupe were good guys all along and they were on a revenge path and the times where it seemed they killed innocents was actually other guys'. There are more years in between what we have seen in chapters 396/397and the current events. At some point they lost their way, I guess. Killing people can be a gate toward doing small atrocities, which can be a gate towards big atrocities. They were intending to do some fairly radical ends-justify-the-means stuff from the start, then they had another 3 years for Chrollo to pre-compromise his moral principles before they properly got started (the time from age 11 to age 14 for Chrollo, which is when a lot of people's personalities change pretty drastically even under relatively normal circumstances). And then there's another 6 or so years between that and the Kurta massacre (based on the timeline here). Meanwhile a few of the original members, like Uvogin, were people who didn't have great impulse control to begin with. It's possible Feitan was outright evil even then; we don't see enough of him in the flashback to get a very good idea of what he was like back then. They must also have recruited 5 or so other people (possibly from outside Meteor City) to get the original 13 members, and there's been some change in members over the years too. Lots of factors to make it plausible that they went down a very dark path over the years. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Dec 2, 2022 |
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2022 22:20
|
|
|
Also, can somebody tell be who's who in the group shots at the end of the chapter? I'm a little confused about who was and wasn't a founding member, and how many founding members died at some point prior to the Yorknew City arc. Edit: My best guess for the final panel: the guy with the afro is Uvogin, the guy with the samurai topknot is Nobunaga (of course), the other big guy is Franklin, the woman in the black suit is Pakunoda, the spiky-haired person is Machi, the little boy with black hair is Feitan, and the light-haired little boy with baggy pants is...Shalnark? And Phinks, despite being from Meteor City and knowing the original members as kids and even appearing in the previous panel, formally joined later? Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Dec 2, 2022 |
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2022 22:41
|
|
|
 Pretty sure Phinks is off panel much like how Shalnark was hidden by a speech bubble in the original flashback to the Troupe's meeting. Edit: It would just be weird that he wasn't a founding member given what we know.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2022 23:25
|
|
|
I went back and checked chapters 114 and 119, and now I'm even more confused. In Chapter 114 we see basically the same group shot as in the final panel of this chapter, with the spot where the person I identified as Machi is in this chapter covered by a speech bubble. However, the person I identified as Shalnark in this chapter looks more like a girl in 114, and she (?), thinks "Is that Chrollo?" Then in 119, we get this (official translation from the app): Pakunoda (thinking): "I can fire six shots at once. Exactly the number of founding members..." Pakunoda (aloud): "Feitan. Phinks. Machi. Nobunaga. Shalnark. Franklin. Will you trust me...and accept this?" So Phinks and Shalnark are both founding members, but just happened to be "off-camera"? And the "Is that Chrollo?" girl died at some point?
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2022 23:27
|
|
|
Another thing from that point is when Gon asked Chrollo how he could so easily kill people who have nothing to do with him, and Chrollo says he’s does not quite understand his motives anymore.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2022 23:46
|
|
|
Silver2195 posted:I went back and checked chapters 114 and 119, and now I'm even more confused. In Chapter 114 we see basically the same group shot as in the final panel of this chapter, with the spot where the person I identified as Machi is in this chapter covered by a speech bubble. However, the person I identified as Shalnark in this chapter looks more like a girl in 114, and she (?), thinks "Is that Chrollo?" The "Is that chrollo" character is Machi going by her eyes and head shape in the 114 flashback. Wild haired person covered by the word bubble is Shalnark going by the eyes and smile from the current flashback. I can't explain Pakunoda's count if already we have 7 founding members excluding Chrollo and potentially 8 founding members excluding chrollo. Maybe something lost in translation?
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2022 00:01
|
|
|
Brought To You By posted:The "Is that chrollo" character is Machi going by her eyes and head shape in the 114 flashback. Wild haired person covered by the word bubble is Shalnark going by the eyes and smile from the current flashback. I can't explain Pakunoda's count if already we have 7 founding members excluding Chrollo and potentially 8 founding members excluding chrollo. Maybe something lost in translation? Paku would not be counting herself, Chrollo, and the deceased Uvo.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2022 00:18
|
|
|
Brought To You By posted:
I don't think they consider this the founding meeting. I would bet they consider the election of chrollo as leader when they were still kids the founding meeting of the troupe. My in terpretation is that the meeting at the end of this chapter (that's also shown in chapter 114) is when they formalized the structure of the troupe and where they got back together after the three years passed. It seemed Machi was being set up to do her training with Renko, they might have gone their own ways during those three years and started developing their nen. edit: if Machi did go off to do her training for a couple years with Renko, it would also explain this: Brought To You By posted:The "Is that chrollo" character is Machi going by her eyes and head shape in the 114 flashback. She just hadn't been around in a while. the unabonger fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Dec 3, 2022 |
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2022 00:23
|
|
|
So Shalnark was just having a bad hair day? I guess that makes sense. That also means Uvogin was the first founding member to die (which I guess explains why the other members reacted to his death so strongly). The #8 Zeno killed and the #4 Hisoka replaced were not founding members, although they may have been among first four recruited to make the original 13 members. Edit: Also, Shizuku is from Meteor City too despite not being a founding member, leaving only three members not from Meteor City by the time of the Yorknew City arc: Bonolenov (from the Gyudondond Tribe), Hisoka (origin unknown), and Kortopi (origin unknown). I wonder if we'll ever learn what Kortopi's deal was. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Dec 3, 2022 |
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2022 00:36
|
|
|
this chapter really adds a bit of weight to the whole "even if the head is cut off" gimmick the spiders have
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2022 03:12
|
|
|
i flunked out posted:I don't think they consider this the founding meeting. I would bet they consider the election of chrollo as leader when they were still kids the founding meeting of the troupe. Other than that, we'll have to see the moment when Chrollo proposes this organization to the elders as I suspect he learned nen from the same elder that developed Sun and Moon. So I'm sure we have 1-2 more chapters of flashback before we revert back to the present day and Kurapika for the final chapter of this volume. We'll have to see what she might have meant by 6 founding members.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2022 06:18
|
|
|
Good ch.!
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2022 06:50
|
|
|
Brought To You By posted:. We'll have to see what she might have meant by 6 founding members. It’s pretty simple. She has Six Bullets so made sure to use them on Founding Members of which there were six at the hideout not counting herself.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2022 08:22
|
|
|
Just remember that the canon spelling of Pakunoda's name is Phalcnothdk. Speaking of the databook that has the hilarious spellings of the names, it has an index for the alphabet in HxH and how that codes to japanese kana. Looking at the notes they find on the tree and with the corpse, I don't think they're nearly high resolution enough to begin to translate, nor do they even particularly look like the hunter alphabet. I also don't really think it's going to matter to the plot narratively, unless the kurta or kakin are related somehow.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2022 08:35
|
|
|
I think you're overlooking that Chrollo is saying "I have in mind a new system for this place" - it is shown as a religious state first, and a completely collapsed helldump after Chrollo's "revolution". He also states that Meteor City has to become the premium hiding place for international criminals. He's already lost his mind, Uvogin has zero impulse control, Phinks and Feitan are downright bullies, and Franklin is openly belligerant. Their arc doesn't seem farfetched to me. Char fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Dec 3, 2022 |
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2022 13:22
|
|
|
MonsterEnvy posted:It’s pretty simple. She has Six Bullets so made sure to use them on Founding Members of which there were six at the hideout not counting herself.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2022 16:23
|
|
|
Char posted:I think you're overlooking that Chrollo is saying "I have in mind a new system for this place" - it is shown as a religious state first, and a completely collapsed helldump after Chrollo's "revolution". Yeah, hell, the whole flashback is centered around the troupe getting involved with the most depraved thing of all Anime dubbing & localization
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2022 16:24
|
|
|
Brought To You By posted:It's simple yeah, but the way she phrased it can and did create a different read than the reality of just shooting the last of the original members with her bullets. Did it? I thought it was pretty clear in the original dialogue.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2022 21:27
|
|
|
Pretty sure the church is still around and the dominant governing institution alongside the council and the troupe in the current timeline, that's where the ants took over iirc?
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2022 22:24
|
|
|
It's a long time since I read the kurapika flashback extra but is there a reason to believe these chapters and that are related?
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2022 23:17
|
|
|
Jose posted:It's a long time since I read the kurapika flashback extra but is there a reason to believe these chapters and that are related? None beyond what seems like a friend of the Troupe showing up in it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2022 23:20
|
|
|
Ok because the impression I got from this entire arc is kurapicas real enemy is in fact tserriednich
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2022 23:24
|
|
|
its all coming together 
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2022 23:42
|
|
|
Jose posted:It's a long time since I read the kurapika flashback extra but is there a reason to believe these chapters and that are related?
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2022 23:46
|
|
|
Jose posted:It's a long time since I read the kurapika flashback extra but is there a reason to believe these chapters and that are related? Sheila, one of the original members of the dubbing troupe, is the hunter that Kurapika and Pairo meet who leads them to want to experience the outside world. This part being connected is just a theory, but the last time they go to visit Sheila she is gone, with a goodbye letter in her place. The letter seems like it’s written by her, but the book is missing and we soon find out the elder has it. Later, when the troupe slaughters the Kurta clan, they leave the Meteor City message: “We will accept anything you leave, but don’t take anything away from us.” I think there’s a possibility that the elder wasn’t the nice guy he seemed to be and killed Sheila, taking the book and forging a goodbye note. The troupe then found out and slaughtered the clan for taking Sheila away from them like with Sarasa. One thing that might contradict this though would be Uvo not remembering the Kurta clan at first when confronted by Kurapika but I think the rest checks out well enough.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2022 23:48
|
|
|
frajaq posted:its all coming together I'm assuming this is a further thematic parallel between Kurapica and Chrollo, rather than Tserriednich being responsible for Sarasa's death. How old would he even have been at the time, anyway? Though it would be funny if Kurapica, Chrollo, and Benjamin teamed up because they hated Tserriednich even more than each other.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2022 00:14
|
|
|
Silver2195 posted:I'm assuming this is a further thematic parallel between Kurapica and Chrollo, rather than Tserriednich being responsible for Sarasa's death. How old would he even have been at the time, anyway? Though it would be funny if Kurapica, Chrollo, and Benjamin teamed up because they hated Tserriednich even more than each other. I think the idea is that Chrollo set up that website to find Sarasa's killers. He says he planned to do as much in this chapter.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2022 00:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 00:04 |
|
|
Hitlersaurus Christ posted:Sheila, one of the original members of the dubbing troupe, is the hunter that Kurapika and Pairo meet who leads them to want to experience the outside world. I get the impression that whatever the troupe's reasons for killing the Kurta Clan, they were a lot more meaningful to Chrollo than they were to Uvogin.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2022 00:19
|
|