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Blue Footed Booby posted:"The only way for the gop to win long term is for him to lose (since he's already announced he's running) then go to prison forever so he's out of their hair" was my reading I dismissed that because it's clearly not their best possible hope. Like it's one of the less-awful of the more likely results from their perspective but there are poo poo tons of other possibilities that are better. And if someone meant that, there are easier ways to say it. But also maybe I'm weird so if the poster wants to clarify that's what they mean, hell yeah, let's talk about that. I legit don't know who "they" is supposed to refer to in that post.
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Dec 2, 2022 22:58
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Blue Footed Booby posted:"The only way for the gop to win long term is for him to lose (since he's already announced he's running) then go to prison forever so he's out of their hair" was my reading As soon as Trump is in cuffs the GOP also has to do the political equivalent of smothering MTG and the rest of the Freedom Caucus in their crib. Otherwise we’re just back here with another loon holding them hostage with a core of dedicated hard line Christian Nationalist crazies a few years from now. I don’t see it happening though, it’s metastasized now.
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Dec 2, 2022 23:14
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Murgos posted:As soon as Trump is in cuffs the GOP also has to do the political equivalent of smothering MTG and the rest of the Freedom Caucus in their crib. Otherwise we’re just back here with another loon holding them hostage with a core of dedicated hard line Christian Nationalist crazies a few years from now. Agreed, I was just trying to interpret. I'm not sure even literally smothering MTG would help because the voters who elected her would gravitate towards the next crazy. It's just a question of whether the next crazy is as crazy
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Dec 2, 2022 23:58
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I honestly don't think we'll ever get to see Trump in handcuffs. Nor do I think the party will ever be rid of MTG's, Geatz's and crazy people since they represent too large a segment of the base and years of talk radio have conditioned them to just be more and more conservative to where candidates try to outdo each other to prove their credentials. I mean, I don't think I'll see any of that in my lifetime anyway. There's no putting MAGA back in the box now. A former president and current candidate just had dinner with a known leader of the white supremacist movement and a famous rapper suffering through severe mental health issues who straight up said he likes Hitler. This has received about as much media attention as Barrack Obama knowing Bill Ayers.
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Dec 3, 2022 01:12
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https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.618763/gov.uscourts.flsd.618763.194.0_1.pdf J Smith points out that if the 11th order goes through as scheduled, a number of items representing a lot of work will be lost. Requests extension, and notes that T lawyers have been silent. I suppose this is prudent because it means avoiding more delays later (in a trial) when they say "but the documents!..." and have to redo all the work.
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Dec 3, 2022 13:45
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BiggerBoat posted:I honestly don't think we'll ever get to see Trump in handcuffs. Sometimes I think about the old days; the Bush and Obama years. Remember Rick Santorum and Michelle Bachman? Bachman was so crazy this article about her actually being a borat-style performance artist was believable. MTG is just Dumb Trek: The Next Generation. We'll never be rid of these people. They've always been with us and they always will be.
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Dec 3, 2022 17:37
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-Blackadder- posted:Sometimes I think about the old days; the Bush and Obama years. But now they're kinda..."normalized" I guess, keep doubling down and we've grown increasingly desensitized to it. I remember when guys like Morton Downey, Geraldo Rivera and Rush were deemed outrageous and too over the top. Or when politicians could derail their entire career with one or two egregious fuckups. Hell, I'm old enough to remember Gary Hart being ruined by an extramarital affair and people like Marge Schott and some dude who was GM for the LA Dodgers being run out on a rail for saying racist poo poo. David Duke was a pariah. This still happens, of course, but back then the condemnation seemed far more universal and consensual. Now we have a former president and current candidate dining with white supremacists where 33% of the country views reporting on it as the media picking on him. There's also, to me, the added layer of just complete batshit lunacy and conspiracy peddling on top of the outright racism. These people say and do poo poo that just a decade or two ago would get them laughed out of the loving room and no one earth would ever take them seriously. The GOP base's only solution to anything is to be MORE conservative, have MORE guns, MORE jails, MORE tax cuts, MORE voting restrictions, MORE executions, MORE wars and MORE bibles. I don't think there's any question that they've become more and more extreme and have largely succeeded in dragging the Overton Window along with them.
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Dec 3, 2022 17:52
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BiggerBoat posted:But now they're kinda..."normalized" I guess, keep doubling down and we've grown increasingly desensitized to it. I remember when guys like Morton Downey, Geraldo Rivera and Rush were deemed outrageous and too over the top. Yeah, I remember when Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh, who were once on the leading edge of crazy, were both beaten into submission by their radio audience over Trump during the primaries. They really did not want to endorse him at all, until it was made crystal clear that they weren't driving the crazy train anymore, and they could either get on board or lose their job.
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Dec 3, 2022 17:58
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That's fair. One wonders how it all ends, though. Even now, they're only able to stay competitive with extreme gerrymandering and bigotry. Bigotry will always be in their favor but if the states ever get ungerrymandered the GOP, in its current form, is hosed. As it is they're now officially three elections in the hole with their "just be as insane as possible" platform. The Crazy Train ain't much good if it keeps getting you curb stomped on election day.
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Dec 3, 2022 18:26
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Xiahou Dun posted:I dismissed that because it's clearly not their best possible hope. I'm curious what you see as a realistic better outcome for the GOP instead of Trump getting suppressed by the Govt? Trump did not actually lead the GOP to a lot of legislative or political victories, and he's poo poo to work with. The GOP political leadership has a huge governability problem, and the House is a great example of that. Out of 435 people, there are going to be a few crazies, but the GOP crazies have started to eat their own party. The GOP has run against government for a while, and when that was running against oil drilling restrictions it made some political sense, you can see politicians winning elections on that and still getting some of their other political objectives done, like funding for roads. When it starts going into "shut down the government so I can read bedtime stories but change nothing" or unpopular ideas like "privatize social security" or "don't encourage vaccines so our voters die", they take anti-government to the natural conclusion of "our political party should be useless". I think that is too far for many (but not all) of the GOP leadership (but not voters), and I think with abortion specifically they are starting to see how bad things get when their dumb ideas are implemented. An ideal outcome for the GOP would be for Trump to get elected and decide to work with the GOP leadership and be a great salesman, but nobody thinks that will happen.
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Dec 3, 2022 19:34
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-Blackadder- posted:That's fair. Here's an example of the problem they face: I'm in Massachusetts, and many years ago I voted for Romney for Governor because he sounded like a reasonable Republican. He made some soft statements against abortion and stuff, but I through he was just trying to please his party. Once elected he tried to cut off stem cell funding for Mass biotech companies, and dug up Jim Crow laws to prevent marriage equality when the courts imposed it. At this point, if a Republican candidate for anything wanted my vote, I'd have to dig so deep into questions like "Are you a Nazi? Any other bigotry? Why are you in a party that is ok with Nazis?" Just basic "Are you not evil" poo poo, and I don't have the time for that. Why would I ever vote for a Republican? Looking at the state now, a lot of folks agree with me.
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Dec 3, 2022 19:40
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StumblyWumbly posted:I'm curious what you see as a realistic better outcome for the GOP instead of Trump getting suppressed by the Govt? Trump did not actually lead the GOP to a lot of legislative or political victories, and he's poo poo to work with. The GOP political leadership has a huge governability problem, and the House is a great example of that. Out of 435 people, there are going to be a few crazies, but the GOP crazies have started to eat their own party. I'm increasingly of this mindset. It'd be stupid to say the GOP is screwed, since we've heard that after like five elections since 2006 — and they clearly have a base of people who will turn out to vote no matter what and are ride or die with the crazy — but this latest election showed us the Culture War anti-democracy bullshit only goes so far and puts unendurable strain on the party's electability. And instead of taking lessons from that, the House GOP's planning on doubling down on the nonsense. The refrain "Twitter is not real life" gets tossed out to dismiss leftist politics and politicians pretty frequently, but it feels like the GOP's falling into that trap right now and if they cling to that absurdity it's only going to bite them in the rear end more and more as the Boomers vacate this mortal coil. That's my read on it, anyway. I dunno, I'm not optimistic because I've watched them wriggle out of plenty over the course of my life, but this feels like a dead-end path for them.
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Dec 3, 2022 19:56
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StumblyWumbly posted:At this point, if a Republican candidate for anything wanted my vote, I'd have to dig so deep into questions like "Are you a Nazi? Any other bigotry? Why are you in a party that is ok with Nazis?" Just basic "Are you not evil" poo poo, and I don't have the time for that. Why would I ever vote for a Republican? Looking at the state now, a lot of folks agree with me. At present time anyone with an (R) has accepted that label after the party built a seething mob of insurrectionists and refused to hold anyone accountable for it. They are traitors. No time need be taken. A Republican is, by default, unworthy of office.
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Dec 3, 2022 20:11
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StumblyWumbly posted:
A hypothetical "good faith" conservative movement contrasted with the observed behavior of self-identifying conservatives. Party strategy hints at the transition you observe; when not in power, the GOP adopts a strategy of total obstruction and projection. Undermine the ruling party's agenda. Watch what trouble forms. Aggrivate that trouble, undermine efforts to mitigate it, and point the finger at the ruling party like the whole mess is entirely their fault. When in power, they try to shore that power up by all available means. This makes some (sociopathic) "game theory" sense, but is inherently disingenuous, requiring a bad-faith approach to governance. Now, gw caught the car, and gave the government more power (via war poo poo). Trump caught the car, and did everything he could to enrich his cronies, dismantle the aparatus, undermine the existing diolomatic relations status quo, poison public discourse, gaslight the citizenry, and test every fence. The dems suck, but the gop is an existential threat, and ought not be allowed a winning election cycle ever ever again. If there was a party of good-faith conservatives, I wouldn't feel this way. Hell, I was raised to be a good-faith conservative.
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Dec 3, 2022 21:13
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The last good-faith conservative was Eisenhower, and the Democratic Party is right of him now. It's odd to witness the slow death of the Republican Party since 1980, the first elections I voted in. They had far more power as a loyal opposition. The main elemental changes are the the brazen influence of money, and the failure and death of the Fourth Estate. You simply cannot have a functioning representative democracy without an informed citizenry. Corporate prerogatives trump everything else, and the utter absence of regulation, either internal (self-control driven by a sense of proportion and perspective) or external has led us here. The current iteration of the GOP has absolutely no integrity whatsoever - no foundation besides power and profit, and it has destroyed the party and may destroy the country as well. This leaves the Democratic Party as the paragon of reason, since they are the only ones with any sense of integrity at all. It took fifty years for us to get here, and would take longer for us to get out - if we committed to removing money from the electoral equation and found a way to restore faith in mass media.
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Dec 4, 2022 00:14
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Xiahou Dun posted:I dismissed that because it's clearly not their best possible hope. Sorry, I meant "lose the case", not "lose the election". That is, the best outcome for GOP is that they are publicly loyal to Trump, but then Trump goes away forever before he has time to do any more damage. It gets them to co-op back his base, without having to deal with him anymore. And I very much don't think this is the best possible outcome for the country.
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Dec 4, 2022 00:51
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Tuna-Fish posted:Thinking strategically, their biggest possible win would be backing Trump 110%, and then Trump losing and going to prison for long enough for him to never be a political actor again. i think he probably still wins the primary anyway since he will just say what the base wants and the base will clap and squel and the other canidates will either be boring "moderates" who get crushed or inferior trumps. PainterofCrap posted:The last good-faith conservative was Eisenhower, and the Democratic Party is right of him now. id say the current dems are somewhat to the left of Eisenhower and least but depends on the subject, but thats just my read. anyway, yeah the GOP hosed up tripling down on the weird insane social poo poo and getting mad at corps for not marketing exclusively to chuds anymore(because they arn the marketable majority) and they built and entire media sphere that feeds their base insane alt reality poo poo to cradle to grave and now they don't really have any smart ghouls that just want stupid economic poo poo and throw out red meat as cover. now they want all the insane poo poo.
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Dec 4, 2022 03:22
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PainterofCrap posted:The last good-faith conservative was Eisenhower, and the Democratic Party is right of him now. For all their flaws, I don't think the Dems are to the right of the guy who started "Operation Wetback", authorized COINTELPRO, barred gay people from federal employment, and partitioned Vietnam, among other things.
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Dec 4, 2022 03:36
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PainterofCrap posted:It took fifty years for us to get here, and would take longer for us to get out - if we committed to removing money from the electoral equation and found a way to restore faith in mass media. I'm not sure if that cat can go back into the bag to be honest; certainly not without some new technology, organization, or fundamental structure. Things move too fast and reality is so obscure. Relevance is more important than accuracy, depth, or nuance. You get and stay relevant by getting ahead of the facts and by emphasizing feeling. I've seen nothing on the horizon threatening to change that state.
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Dec 4, 2022 04:09
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piL posted:I'm not sure if that cat can go back into the bag to be honest; certainly not without some new technology, organization, or fundamental structure. Things move too fast and reality is so obscure. Relevance is more important than accuracy, depth, or nuance. You get and stay relevant by getting ahead of the facts and by emphasizing feeling. I've seen nothing on the horizon threatening to change that state. There's also the adaptation effect. Part of the reason why right wing media and the right wing as a whole can't deescalate and has to keep escalating is because it often has to keep hyping up the threat to get an emotional response that draws people in. Someone deescalating back to sanity will get drowned out by more predatory voices taking up the call of bigoted anti American douchebaggery. It's part of how the right got to where they are now, in fact. Not helping things is the fact that the evangelical and "right wing christian" types are utterly loving toxic to the party (And really, the safety of the population of the country as a whole. There's a reason why the words Y'allqaeda and heehawdists are used about those groups amongst people who track their behavior.) and yet also enough of a demographic in the Republican party that pulling the band-aid off and tossing them into the bigoted gutters where they belong would hurt the party's chances in the next few elections. So anyone trying to call for some moderation and sanity out loud gets called a commie or some variety of ____phobic racist or LGBT slurs as christian hate groups get organized to vote the person out in red states where they have the population to make a difference in elections. All while the more predatory and opportunistic parts of the party whistle and pretend nothing bad happened to their colleague while in public, assuming they weren't demonizing the voices calling for sanity themselves. Realistically speaking, the only way to get the Republicans back to not being so outwardly loving awful is to refer back to that old bitter saying of "The only way to get rid of fascists (without war in this case) is to temporarily become a bit fascist yourself." by suppressing right wing extremists out of existing as a coherent identity. Which would mean having the government censor and forcibly legislate out of business tv stations like Fox, crazy right wing radio shock jocks (who were one of the major salvos in pushing things this far and to some degree still are a contributing factor), and parasitic churches along with Then wait for the people who used to get their rage and hatred fix transition from raging at (insert boogeyman of the year/week/day/broadcast/sermon here) as they're forced to go cold turkey and have to interact with reality instead of whatever bubble they're in and hope people can run interference on all the likely attempts to keep the extremist con going in the face of that in the meantime. Regardless of which, it's foolish to expect that the Republicans are going to deescalate of their own free will. Certainly a lot of people would like them too but the Republican party has too many perverse incentives to keep going into fashie land by affiliated supporting media and financial apparatus's to do that without some sort of huge shake up. Archonex fucked around with this message at 13:02 on Dec 4, 2022 |
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Dec 4, 2022 12:10
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Archonex posted:There's also the adaptation effect. Part of the reason why right wing media and the right wing as a whole can't deescalate and has to keep escalating is because it often has to keep hyping up the threat to get an emotional response that draws people in. Someone deescalating back to sanity will get drowned out by more predatory voices taking up the call of bigoted anti American douchebaggery. It's part of how the right got to where they are now, in fact. I don't think that will really work, because Social Media is the same thing but worse. The fragmentation of networks was an early warning of what would come and Fox definitely benefitted. However, the mechanism that made Fox News and Rush Limbaugh the vanguard still exists, only stronger. The 'democratization' of media combined with the audience's semi-passive engagement and idea reinforcing algorithms means a sick burn or a mongered fear that agrees with the reader's priors will drown out any moderate voice. I think it'll be an existential crisis that will focuses voices into moderating themselves and each other. The optimistic part of me posits that some generation of people, exhausted and frustrated by the way we conceal truth from ourselves and latch onto poorly founded suppositions, may form some counter-culture without a major event, but that may just be a dream. It'll need to come from the people, and the people are never forward leaning as a rule.
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Dec 4, 2022 13:55
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Don't have to go fascist, just clarify and enforce the regulations we already have on the books. It's not realistic to roll the Telecommunications Act back to the 1934 iteration, but focusing the public policy provisions would go a long way towards re-establishing fact-based journalism in the service of democracy. There is a place for outlets like Fox News: entertainment. Such things have always been around but with a fact-based news media, they had, before 1996, kept in perspective. This op-ed from Brookings (I know, I know) gives a fair primer on the purposes of the FCC: https://www.brookings.edu/research/revisiting-the-broadcast-public-interest-standard-in-communications-law-and-regulation/
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Dec 4, 2022 14:36
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piL posted:I don't think that will really work, because Social Media is the same thing but worse. The fragmentation of networks was an early warning of what would come and Fox definitely benefitted. However, the mechanism that made Fox News and Rush Limbaugh the vanguard still exists, only stronger. Social media may be set up to be fragmented, however the companies are very much centralized according to bog standard capitalism's way of doing things. Holding social media companies to the fire in actually enforcing policies oriented towards suppressing lies and bigotry would do wonders for the issue of fragmented social media. Again, this is an issue of lack of enforcement similar to how fake news channels like Fox News get away with selling malicious bullshit to the right. It's also very telling that not all social media sites have raging problems with people being a threat to others. It's just that certain companies are okay with pushing engagement through rage and emotional manipulation --- a lot like how Fox News does incidentally --- to get ahead of the competition since there's no real penalty outside of the vast majority of people ditching the place over lovely operating standards. And to be fair, europe seems to have at least a few countries that have understood this (Germany comes to mind I believe, though I may be misremembering the exact country.), issue with social media*. But as usual the US is behind the curve when it comes to such progress given the moneyed interests that would have to actually put some work into making a decent platform for socializing in a way that isn't "get the rope!" directed at a persecuted minority like trans people half the loving time. As an example of what I mean, a good part of why facebook is such a cesspit of bigoted mania and disinformation is all the crazy rear end racists that the moderation team is told to turn a blind eye too outside of whatever pittance they periodically offer up to the public to mollify their disgust with the place whenever their lack of responsibility inevitably blows up in society's collective face in a mass shooting or an episode of election interference through foreign disinfo campaigns. I mean, there's been articles studying Facebook in particular and it's loving disgraceful how bad it is once you start digging. It's to the point where there's groups pretending to be businesses selling rope and the like while the posts of the company are all about how ____ minority needs to stop existing. And that's just the tip of the evil iceberg. Nothing is done about curbing the overall issue because the people in charge won't face any consequences (since everyone else aside from some boomers fled the place long ago) since there's neither a public backlash to hurt their profits or government interference to make them stop being the social media equivalent of Stormfront a good chunk of the time. That we turn a blind eye to a business model that doesn't just pay even the barest minimum lip service to basic human decency and respect and instead actively enables it's denigration and destruction alongside the eroding of our democracy is not only dangerous as gently caress (See Elon desperately trying to hop into bed with hostile foreign powers like Russia as an example of how this could and probably will go wrong in the future) but is something that shouldn't be allowed in the first place assuming there's proper standards and ethics for administrating such sites. Which touches on my original post and the one above this one. We simply don't enforce standards of ethical practice amongst many information disseminating services. Often this is because the offending businesses insist they in some way just can't operate without being a walking problem for democracy and civil rights that periodically enacts a blood tithe on the minority populace through engaging in stochastic terrorism. This is also patently false. Since a lack of ingenuity and innovation is not in of itself proof that's the way things have to be (this incidentally falls into that old conservative trap of "well, things can't be better so get used to it instead of being upset snowflake") or should even be justification to exist as a business model to begin with. It's an example of poor business management at best. Or in the case of shitheads like Musk and the Murdoch family and their associates a case of outright malicious decision making meant to prioritize profits through the destabilization of social discourse at the expense of the safety of the greater populace. Either way, if the goal is deescalating the Republicans back to something approaching decency and sanity holding corrupt social media companies to account is one of the many things that has to be done on a governmental level as well as societal one. And in the case of the government quite frankly should have already have had regulations to handle it to begin with.  * There's talk that Twitter might get banned in the EU due to it being openly restructured to be a platform for bigots and supremacists. Archonex fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Dec 4, 2022 |
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Dec 4, 2022 15:59
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-Blackadder- posted:This guy looks like Garth Ennis' non-floating timeline Frank Castle. *scratches out Mueller on my It's Mueller Time bumper sticker, and starts writing another name*
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Dec 4, 2022 17:14
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The new ridiculous thing Trump said about suspending the rules in the Constitution to declare him president. Grasping at straws and outrageousness to stay relevant. https://twitter.com/CREWcrew/status/1599198527401299968
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Dec 4, 2022 21:17
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OgNar posted:The new ridiculous thing Trump said about suspending the rules in the Constitution to declare him president. My uncle reposted that and a bunch of other similar insane stupid poo poo. Chuds will follow trump to the grave probably.
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Dec 4, 2022 21:39
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Dapper_Swindler posted:My uncle reposted that and a bunch of other similar insane stupid poo poo. Chuds will follow trump to the grave probably. He won't die. He'll be in hiding with JFK Jr., Taking down the deep state. He'll live forever, like the emperor in WH40K; they already photoshop him in space marine armor.
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Dec 4, 2022 21:44
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Meatball posted:He won't die. Yeah, anything short of Trump definitively dying in public, on camera, and on live national television will be conspiritized to hell and back and we will probably never hear the end of it for at least half a century that he's still alive and out there somewhere, watching over us all and he will come back to us one day, if we all believe hard enough. Hell, even Trump being provably dead will also be conspiracy fodder because people will think he was assassinated because he could never possibly die of natural causes.
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Dec 4, 2022 22:25
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Debating if I'd prefer him to go Hilter-style or Mussolini-style. Not thay he'd have the strength of character to end himself. And hell, we all know it'd be Death of Stalin.
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Dec 4, 2022 22:32
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Platonicsolid posted:Debating if I'd prefer him to go Hilter-style or Mussolini-style. Not thay he'd have the strength of character to end himself. so is Matt Gaetz the Lavrenti Beria of this theoretical scenario?
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Dec 5, 2022 00:09
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Angry_Ed posted:so is Matt Gaetz the Lavrenti Beria of this theoretical scenario? O please. There are like 7 people competing for the Beria slot in the Trump administration and no way Gaetz is at the top, not when there's Bannon and Stone still kicking around. On a very good day, Gaetz maybe can dream of being a Malenkov.
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Dec 5, 2022 00:13
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Xiahou Dun posted:O please. I think he's Molotov. I can absolutely see Gaetz continuing to denigrate his wife for her traitorous actions against Trump, even as Bannon produces her and explains it was all nonsense.
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Dec 5, 2022 03:11
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I was thinking less political power and more "disgusting sexual predator who will be thrown under the train at the first sign of trouble"
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Dec 5, 2022 03:16
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nine-gear crow posted:Yeah, anything short of Trump definitively dying in public, on camera, and on live national television will be conspiritized to hell and back and we will probably never hear the end of it for at least half a century that he's still alive and out there somewhere, watching over us all and he will come back to us one day, if we all believe hard enough. Sadly, even if he died of a heart attack on television it would still be conspiritized to hell for the next 10-20 years.
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Dec 5, 2022 04:43
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If they can pretzel-logic their way into resurrecting JFK Jr. from the ocean floor, no doubt.
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Dec 5, 2022 05:12
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Keisari posted:Sadly, even if he died of a heart attack on television it would still be conspiritized to hell for the next 10-20 years. Fox...die
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Dec 5, 2022 05:48
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Blue Footed Booby posted:Fox...die Sadly wrong video game franchise. Though Trump did at one point try to use Covid as the Syphon Filter virus for liberals and it turned out to be one for chuds instead.
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Dec 5, 2022 08:12
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Guillotine. Televised and live-streamed. Make him a tale to scare chuds until they die, rather than any conspiracy they can rally behind. If he wants to be the face of fascism, let him also be the face of what should happen to fascists.
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Dec 5, 2022 08:43
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Rudy in an ethics hearing in DC today https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/05/politics/rudy-giuliani-ethics-hearing/index.html "The hearing that begins on Monday will take a trial-like form and is only the first stage of the disciplinary process. The proceedings are expected to last several days and may stretch into next week. Once they wrap up, the hearing committee will assemble a report and ultimately issue recommendations to the Board on Professional Responsibility. That board will consider a round of briefing from both sides and hear arguments, but the final arbiter of the matter will be DC’s local court of appeals." https://lawandcrime.com/2020-electi...ring-kicks-off/ "“I believe that I’ve been persecuted for three or four years, including false charges brought against me by the federal government,” Giuliani said, referring to the search warrant on his home on suspicion of illegal foreign lobbying. The seizure of his records sparked an extensive fight over attorney-client privilege, before the government recently disclosed that they did not plan to pursue a criminal case." Live video of Rudys hearing, resumes in 15m https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P27xH82EcZw OgNar fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Dec 5, 2022 |
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Dec 5, 2022 19:07
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“If someone does not disclose a loan, OGE has no way to know,” said Walter Shaub, who ran that agency when Trump took office. Don Fox, who once also headed the office, told Forbes: “The system is kind of predicated upon people actually following a law because they want to follow the law.” Lets always just assume Trump follows the law. https://twitter.com/HuffPostPol/status/1599749228854640642 https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2022/12/04/trump-owed-hidden-debt-while-in-office/?sh=4b20da00b30e
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Dec 5, 2022 19:17
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