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hobbesmaster posted:Seriously this cannot be stated enough. I haven't circled back to stellaris in... oh 6 months but then I was playing a large galaxy with all the mods and things just didn't slow down until things got completely absurd. By all the mods I mean gigastructures, ACoT, AoT and SotS. That may not mean much to you but gigas and ACoT are both "number go up" mods and the latter two are extensions to ACoT that make things even stupider. stop stop stop right there. Is this true and working? Cause my medium map with modded Stellaris just goes to poo poo after like 150 years. on a 5800x
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Dec 2, 2022 22:19
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Cygni posted:Updated! I got confused while posting it, which I think says something lol. Also RE the X3D parts, at least this leaker agrees that 7950X3D is back on the menu: Very same.
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Dec 2, 2022 23:01
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AutismVaccine posted:stop stop stop right there. Is this true and working? Cause my medium map with modded Stellaris just goes to poo poo after like 150 years. on a 5800x Any game that chokes on simulations when the gamestate gets out of cache will benefit massively from a 5800X3D. For example, the most popular benchmark map for Factorio sees FPS more than double going from a 5800X to 5800X3D. Stellaris does not appear to see gains quite on that level, but they are still significant. There is the potential that the gains are even larger if the cache is really crushed on the 5800X but still fits on the 5800X3D.
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Dec 2, 2022 23:09
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K8.0 posted:Any game that chokes on simulations when the gamestate gets out of cache will benefit massively from a 5800X3D. For example, the most popular benchmark map for Factorio sees FPS more than double going from a 5800X to 5800X3D. Stellaris does not appear to see gains quite on that level, but they are still significant. There is the potential that the gains are even larger if the cache is really crushed on the 5800X but still fits on the 5800X3D. Stellaris late game hits a state where it slows down dramatically because it’s running tight loops on a bunch of entries for planets and pops. If those checks hit some critical threshold of cache misses the game becomes unplayable. Those benchmarks are cover the beginning of the game - an end game benchmark is basically impossible.
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Dec 3, 2022 01:57
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Yeah, the biggest performance gains seen in paradox games are always in the late game. I don't know where Stellaris is at, but the current paradox engine version is pretty heavily multithreaded and can fully saturate at least 16 threads, maybe even 32. I'd be very curious to see how a 7950X3D performs at late-game Vicky 3.
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Dec 3, 2022 02:05
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Stellaris is nowhere near as multithread friendly due to the older version of Clausewitz (PDX's game engine) it's on and, as I recall from some devs responding to multithread questions several years ago, the way it handles the heaviest processing loads. Lategame/Heavily modded I usually see one thread just capped out, four or five at maybe 30% and the rest barely registering more than 10% utilization in task manager. I doubt Pdox would upgrade Stellaris's engine at this stage of the game's life, and I can only imagine the nightmares it would give their coders, but one can dream/wait for Stellaris2 in ten years.
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Dec 3, 2022 04:36
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It’s really a more fundamental problem with Clausewitz. Dig into how their scripts work and it becomes pretty clear why it has to be single threaded - everything has to be treated as possibly causing a side effect.
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Dec 3, 2022 04:51
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hobbesmaster posted:It’s really a more fundamental problem with Clausewitz. Dig into how their scripts work and it becomes pretty clear why it has to be single threaded - everything has to be treated as possibly causing a side effect. Victoria 3 isn't single-threaded at all though, so it's a problem they've overcome.
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Dec 3, 2022 04:52
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Right, which means it’s “game rules” are different. That makes sense because the stellaris pop rework was Wiz’s beta test for Vic 3 and it was clear that fundamental changes had to be made.
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Dec 3, 2022 04:55
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repiv posted:https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryzen-7000x3d-series-reportedly-feature-16-12-and-8-core-models-coming-january-2023
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Dec 3, 2022 06:14
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CES has been consistently rumored to be the annoucement time for at least a couple of months now. The shaky bit is actual availability. Those leaks are the first indicators from anyone vaguely reliable regarding higher core counts and prices. He's also saying it should clock similarly to Zen4 as well which is interesting considering how hot the 5800x3D gets.
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Dec 3, 2022 09:40
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The X3D's will now come with a lower profile and pure copper IHS, making all current coolers incompatible. For real, maybe they finally flipped the stack, with the CCDs on top? I mean, I can't find gently caress-all about it, but die schematics indicate that the IF is all at one edge of the CCD. So that seems to make things somewhat practical in that regard.
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Dec 3, 2022 10:09
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flipping the stack would be fantastic and I really think it's possible. it could also be as simple as "gently caress it we ball" and they thinned the IHS and went to a pure copper (higher conductivity) because they had to and the cache die on top was starting to exceed thermal limits. I believe the traditional solution in this case is a copper shim?
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Dec 3, 2022 10:12
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Copper shim? Isn't the IHS nickel plated copper? Or do you mean to restore cooler compatibility?
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Dec 3, 2022 10:19
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quote:Or do you mean to restore cooler compatibility? Yes, if the IHS is now X mm shorter, add a X mm copper shim to the top and it should be close enough (ILM is not exact)
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Dec 3, 2022 12:03
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I'd rather just get different mounting bracket to enjoy those sweet low temps. I'm also happy I didn't jump on any lukewarm sales since waiting 4 months for 7000 x3d parts sounds good. It will probably also make DDR5 availability and compatibility better.
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Dec 3, 2022 12:24
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Hmmm, dare I consider upgrading my 5900X already? I'm not sure if there'd be measurable performance boosts tbh; I don't recall seeing any game really utilising the CPU that much.
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Dec 3, 2022 13:28
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You should be good for many more years.
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Dec 3, 2022 13:33
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Vadoc posted:You should be good for many more years. Good to hear, the 5900X is already pushing my SFF temp comfort levels, didn't want to think about how to cool a 7000 series with 3D cache 
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Dec 3, 2022 13:50
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Interesting that in spite of initial fears of a limited production run, not only is the 5800X3D still widely available, it now routinely goes for less than $350.
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Dec 3, 2022 13:53
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ijyt posted:Good to hear, the 5900X is already pushing my SFF temp comfort levels, didn't want to think about how to cool a 7000 series with 3D cache Just lower the TDP to match what your current 5900x is and you would be good to go with very slightly reduced full-load clocks.
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Dec 3, 2022 13:55
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Combat Pretzel posted:The X3D's will now come with a lower profile and pure copper IHS, making all current coolers incompatible. I mean, I've got a Noctua, the only thing standing between me reusing it on a shorter z-height package is shorter plastic standoffs, and I can make the loving things myself long before Noctua can ship them to me.
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Dec 3, 2022 19:04
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Should I just buy a 5800x3D and call it? I have a 3700X and 3200 RAM just before everyone started going to 3600. I have a huge 360mm cooler already. My problem is I hate my motherboard, being one of those early B450 Tomahawks that had limited BIOS room, no ARGB headers, no USB-C front panel, etc. And buying a new motherboard for AM4 feels like a bad idea. I think I should just wait and see how B750 shakes out, since the 13600 seems like the better path as someone who also runs a lot of ffmpeg in addition to games.
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Dec 3, 2022 21:01
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I'd hold on to it and splash out for a DDR5 build in a year or two.
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Dec 3, 2022 22:21
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The two reasons to upgrade from a 3700X to a 5800X3d: 1. You are specifically into the type of sim-y games that the X3d crushes, and want to play the biggest maps to the biggest endgames 2. You plan to buy this CPU and then avoid upgrades for like 3-5 years to squeeze the maximum juice from your mobo/ram combo For anyone else the 3700X is fine and you will get better value waiting for 7000x3d results, or even better later next year because prices will likely continue to fall on things like mobos & ddr5 ram.
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Dec 3, 2022 23:42
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Craptacular! posted:Should I just buy a 5800x3D and call it? I have a 3700X and 3200 RAM just before everyone started going to 3600. I have a huge 360mm cooler already. I literally just upgraded today to a 5800x3d + b550 from a 3700x w/ 3200 ram on an old b450 that I didn't like. Things are very slightly snappier but games like the new COD or Battlefield play exactly the same. Id wait or get something more multitasking oriented if I were you. If I did it again I would have kept my 3700x and replaced my dead laptop instead.
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Dec 4, 2022 00:02
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a dingus posted:I literally just upgraded today to a 5800x3d + b550 from a 3700x w/ 3200 ram on an old b450 that I didn't like. Things are very slightly snappier but games like the new COD or Battlefield play exactly the same. Id wait or get something more multitasking oriented if I were you. If I did it again I would have kept my 3700x and replaced my dead laptop instead. Thanks for this. Warzone 2 was the first thing that made me feel like I should upgrade, but I do spend much of my time in older games and feel fine in those.
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Dec 4, 2022 00:51
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a dingus posted:I literally just upgraded today to a 5800x3d + b550 from a 3700x w/ 3200 ram on an old b450 that I didn't like. Things are very slightly snappier but games like the new COD or Battlefield play exactly the same. Id wait or get something more multitasking oriented if I were you. If I did it again I would have kept my 3700x and replaced my dead laptop instead. I play flightsims and other VR games on a Reverb G2, and upgraded from a 3700x to a 5800x3d. I also have 1440p monitors, with the primary being 144 Hz. For me, VR games performed significantly better after upgrading the CPU. The majority of newer 2D games that I tried at 1440p also seem smoother, and are often getting right up to 120 FPS now. The 5800x3d is a great CPU, and will probably keep you playing new games at high/max settings for a good 2 or 3 years or more. It's the endgame CPU for AM4, and if you don't want the hassle and expense of building an entirely new machine it'll let you just upgrade the CPU and sit on this machine for quite a while.
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Dec 5, 2022 00:08
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As always, GPU and resolution are going to be more relevant to the FPS of most games that are pushing frames than the CPU. At 1440p, a 3700X paired with a 4090/3090/6950XT is going to be giving up some performance in a lot of games. Conversely, a 3700X paired with a 3060 or even 3070 won't be CPU bottlenecked at all at in most titles. And at 4k, pretty much only the 4090 can push enough frames at to be CPU limited by a 2600X... let alone a 3700X. https://www.techspot.com/article/2201-four-years-of-ryzen-5-gpu-scaling/ That said, if you primarily play CPU limited strategy or simulation games, the 5800X3D can make a massive difference almost regardless of the GPU. So if you got a big GPU and want to push frames, or are deep into HOI4/Rimworld/Stellaris with your current AM4 platform, the X3D might be a great upgrade. But if you have a lower tier GPU, the GPU will very likely should be the first target for your money.
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Dec 5, 2022 00:38
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I have a 3070ti, use 1440p, and mostly play old games like League and Overwatch and Destiny and FFXIV to go over the past five years. My performance with these is fine, although GamersNexus showing the 5800X3D hanging with the 12600K in the Endwalker benchmark made me think (though that benchmark is never a substitute for walking around a social space in a busy hour, which is what brings the code to it's knees). I hate fiddling with individual graphics controls, and in many games just go into GeForce Experience and drop it from Optimal a few notches down toward performance over flashy image quality settings. But cranking it way far down and then following some YouTuber guides didn't help with WarZone 2, which even on lower settings still performs rather poorly, which led me to suspect the CPU. I guess I should play it with Afterburber's overlay on and see what's being taxed. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Dec 5, 2022 |
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Dec 5, 2022 01:10
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Even if the 5800x3d doesn't give too much increase in fps in a certain game it still seems to improve the 1% lows drastically. There is a new beta bios floating around for many brands of motherboard that lets you do what PBO2 Tuner does with undervolting your CPU in the bios. My 5800x3d seemed stable at -30 all core after a night of corecycler and then I tried a GPU undervolt again because it started crashing folding@home after a year of everything being fine. Then kind of on a lark I tested my ram with windows memory diagnostic tool, errors. So I tried memtest86 after blowing some case dust out and contact cleaning and reseating the ram and errors, even at non xmp 2133 ram speeds and default mobo settings So I've got G.Skill F4-3600C16D-32GTZN on the way and then no more computer purchases for 2-3 years hopefully. Maybe I can't blame my occasional Warhammer 40k crashes on the developers code, but it's weird that I just spent 2 nights stress testing stability and everything seemed fine, but ram errors are ram errors and I would very intermittently get crashes from time to time.
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Dec 5, 2022 01:49
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Quaint Quail Quilt posted:Even if the 5800x3d doesn't give too much increase in fps in a certain game it still seems to improve the 1% lows drastically. This matches my subjective experience, although I've also seen an overall improvement in frames per second with the 5800X3D versus a 3600X. The latter is a nice processor, and is doing well paired with a 2070 Super, but with a 3080 the 5800X3D is noticeably better.
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Dec 5, 2022 04:08
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I went from a 5600X to a 5800X3D because I wanted to ride this AM4 board and ddr4 as long as I can. I play map games at 4K and could tell an immediate difference, fwiw.
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Dec 5, 2022 06:29
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Anyone knows of benchmarks of DAWs in regards to regular CPU vs the V-Cache ones? Things like Max for Ableton Live or Bitwig's modular synth can end up in tons of small components that perform tight loops.
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Dec 5, 2022 17:59
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I’m looking for 3960X / 7950 benches… have it in my brain that maybe building a TR box was overkill and the 24C/48T doesn’t get exercised all that much and I’m giving up some performance on single-threaded things like the occasional game I pick up. I maxed out the PCIe lanes mostly because I could, not because I needed too (40GbE adapter because what else to do with a x16 slot??) and 128GB of RAM is doable with 4x32GB though 2DPC performance drops considerably. Leaving aside the I/O (most of which I filled with used enterprise NVMe on M.2, or hilarious network adapters), seems like the net difference is 24 Zen 2 cores across a bunch of CCDs vs 16 Zen 4 across just 2 CCD. Should only see a regression on truly heavily MT workloads, right?
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Dec 6, 2022 03:00
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movax posted:Leaving aside the I/O (most of which I filled with used enterprise NVMe on M.2, or hilarious network adapters), seems like the net difference is 24 Zen 2 cores across a bunch of CCDs vs 16 Zen 4 across just 2 CCD. Should only see a regression on truly heavily MT workloads, right? Good luck finding a review that compares benchmarks specific to what you do, but I'd actually bet on the 7950X being outright faster, even across heavily threaded loads. Zen 3 was a huge IPC improvement over Zen 2, and 7950X clocks are pretty crazy high.
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Dec 6, 2022 03:13
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movax posted:I’m looking for 3960X / 7950 benches… have it in my brain that maybe building a TR box was overkill and the 24C/48T doesn’t get exercised all that much and I’m giving up some performance on single-threaded things like the occasional game I pick up. I maxed out the PCIe lanes mostly because I could, not because I needed too (40GbE adapter because what else to do with a x16 slot??) and 128GB of RAM is doable with 4x32GB though 2DPC performance drops considerably. Not sure how reliable this site is, but just looking at the Cinebench performance we can see the 7950X is actually around 13% faster in the multithreaded test and 63% faster in the single-threaded test. I don't know if we'll be able to find reliable comparisons for gaming, but I'd expect the 7950X to be significantly faster. So in terms of performance alone, the 7950X should be a straight upgrade.
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Dec 6, 2022 03:25
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7950X should outperform a 3960X pretty much across the board, with the exception of a workstation task that maxes out memory bandwidth or capacity. Not sure if this website is dogshit or not, but was helpful for a quick glance. https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-amd_ryzen_9_7950x-vs-amd_ryzen_threadripper_3960x E: lol even used the same site with a similar disclaimer, now that’s a good efb. slow phone postin’ over here.
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Dec 6, 2022 03:34
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movax posted:I’m looking for 3960X / 7950 benches… Here you go https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/2839?vs=2910
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Dec 6, 2022 03:47
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Not sure how reliable this site is, but just looking at the Cinebench performance we can see the 7950X is actually around 13% faster in the multithreaded test and 63% faster in the single-threaded test. I don't know if we'll be able to find reliable comparisons for gaming, but I'd expect the 7950X to be significantly faster. So in terms of performance alone, the 7950X should be a straight upgrade. Ideally, you'd want to Process Lasso a game to only use one CCD. That should prevent quite a bit of the TR/Epyc multichip latency bump.
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Dec 6, 2022 04:10
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