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she had later tweeted that she wasn't so sure that queerness wasn't the issue (although the tweet's since been deleted apparently. i had posted it earlier in my post history in the thread) and Chapek had put money into the Don't Say Gay bill he is clearly a major anti-LGBT force gone from the company, and from the highest position e: don't get me wrong, iger was there during the bullshit with gravity falls so I know it's not a massive swing in the other direction, but it's definitely a net positive. CEOs probably don't meddle too much in the day to day particulars of the animation process (though the financial decisions make a huge impact; see zaslav cancelling so many shows @ WBD) but i'm sure they have a particular agenda/guideline that is then followed by everyone down ladder. The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Nov 21, 2022 |
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Nov 21, 2022 19:22
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True, though Disney also made a Lumity focused Chibi short a while back (which as I recall are made without the input of the show creators) so it was probably a combination of a lot of factors
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Nov 21, 2022 19:26
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The bullshit with Gravity Falls as in the Love God episode, or the bullshit of its air dates? Because the air date thing *worked* even though it drove everyone insane. It was incredibly successful at driving engagement and retention with the target demo.
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Nov 21, 2022 19:42
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i meant the Love God episode as he was CEO of Disney during GF's entire run. i didn't want to suggest that iger's somehow a progressive paragon. just that chapek was a huge rear end in a top hat that clearly noone liked, and tried to play both sides of gay rights for his own benefit e: lol I forgot Chapek was quoted last week as saying animation was solely for kids and adults don't want to watch it. gently caress him The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Nov 21, 2022 |
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Nov 21, 2022 19:45
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DoctorWhat posted:The bullshit with Gravity Falls as in the Love God episode, or the bullshit of its air dates? Because the air date thing *worked* even though it drove everyone insane. It was incredibly successful at driving engagement and retention with the target demo. Wasn’t the air dates also down to behind the scenes disarray too?
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Nov 21, 2022 20:21
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nine-gear crow posted:in the wake of David "I loving hate animation" Zaslav's tax evasion massacre at Warner Bros., Hey hey, David Zaslav hates all non-reality programming, not just animation, he'll have you know.
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Nov 22, 2022 02:45
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relevant to the thread title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvmOEzlZnVk
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Dec 4, 2022 20:09
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DoctorWhat posted:The bullshit with Gravity Falls as in the Love God episode, or the bullshit of its air dates? Because the air date thing *worked* even though it drove everyone insane. It was incredibly successful at driving engagement and retention with the target demo. What happened with the Love God episode?
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Dec 4, 2022 21:29
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It was going to feature same sex relationships in the background and an intersex symbol on the love god's necklace but that stuff got S&P'd out.
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Dec 4, 2022 21:33
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The 7th Guest posted:relevant to the thread title I know it's easy to take shots at SNL for not being funny but Mannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn Where's the jokes
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Dec 4, 2022 22:43
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On a whim I decided to start watching the Netflix Voltron series, so far it seems pretty decent and is probably the closest in tone to the Japanese GoLion. Aside from them killing off Allura at the end what exactly is people’s problem with this show out of curiosity? Also does Allura ever get to pilot a lion like she did in the OG series (I’m only on Season 2 so far)?
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Dec 5, 2022 19:20
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It's boring, mainly. Also got caught up in a lot of shipping arguments that escalated to blackmailing the production company.
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Dec 5, 2022 19:28
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DoctorWhat posted:It's boring, mainly. Also got caught up in a lot of shipping arguments that escalated to blackmailing the production company. what
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Dec 5, 2022 19:28
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Oh yeah so some fans went on a studio tour and took clandestine pictures of production materials for Voltron and other productions that were under NDA and threatened to release them if the writers didn't make their preferred ship canon.
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Dec 5, 2022 19:35
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I disagree on the boring part but wow, that’s deranged
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Dec 5, 2022 19:44
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Oh it gets boring. Really bizarre pacing all throughout, no real mecha anime spirit in terms of monsters or upgrades, bizarre politics.
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Dec 5, 2022 19:47
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Larryb posted:On a whim I decided to start watching the Netflix Voltron series, so far it seems pretty decent and is probably the closest in tone to the Japanese GoLion. Aside from them killing off Allura at the end what exactly is people’s problem with this show out of curiosity? "Why did people go apeshit over Voltron?" is a loaded question with multiple answers depending on who you ask. It mainly revolves around the plot completely unraveling in its final two seasons, its uneven pacing issues, and just the general degradation, neglect, and disrespect for its main cast and their respective character arcs the closer the show drew to its ending. Allura and Lance are the ones who suffer the most from this, but everyone gets it in one way or another, Keith, Shiro, Pidge, Hunk, Lotor. Especially Lotor. What happens to Lotor is just amazing in its whiplash inducing narrative cowardice. Literally, "Oh no, we actually made Lotor a genuinely good person. poo poo! Quick! Turn him into Ultra Turbo Hitler with zero build up to it! NOW!" It's one of those rare shows you can credibly accuse of "virtue signalling", because it pulls some heinous poo poo like revealing Shiro is gay and has a husband, and then killing off that character before he and Shiro ever get to meaningfully interact in the story, and then try to make it up to the audience by having Shiro marry a background character who has like two lines of dialog in the show and who you can play a drinking game with of "spot all the times he shows up in shot in the finale season" like he's Loo-kee on She-Ra or something. It's a show with a really great start, an amazing middle, and then when it came to put-up-or-shut-up time for sticking the landing on the ending, it flinched and just obliterated its shin bones and that's now all anyone can think about, the blood mess it made at the end instead of the sick rear end poo poo it was doing before that. It's basically the animation world's version of Game of Thrones. nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Dec 5, 2022 |
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Dec 5, 2022 19:51
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Even when the plot was compelling in the middle bits you can tell that the production team had no sense of what mecha anime is actually like or what makes it cool. Voltron itself doesn't mean anything. It's literally just a big macguffin robot. None of the good poo poo about how people become mechanized in war, or self-realization through idealized forms, and very few if any truly cool fights.
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Dec 5, 2022 19:56
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nine-gear crow posted:"Why did people go apeshit over Voltron?" is a loaded question with multiple answers depending on who you ask. It mainly revolves around the plot completely unraveling in its final two seasons, its uneven pacing issues, and just the general degradation, neglect, and disrespect for its main cast and their respective character arcs the closer the show drew to its ending. Allura and Lance are the ones who suffer the most from this, but everyone gets it in one way or another, Keith, Shiro, Pidge, Hunk, Lotor. Especially Lotor. What happens to Lotor is just amazing in its whiplash inducing narrative cowardice. Literally, "Oh no, we actually made Lotor a genuinely good person. poo poo! Quick! Turn him into Ultra Turbo Hitler with zero build up to it! NOW!" Wow, I’ll probably keep watching just to see how much of trainwreck it winds up being but I see your point. Since Shiro apparently sticks around the whole way through does that mean Allura never gets a chance to become a Voltron pilot? It is the only US Voltron series to get an actual ending though (as I understand it the others wound up being cancelled prematurely) so that’s something at least
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Dec 5, 2022 20:05
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Man am I glad that I just kinda forgot about it despite liking the first two seasons. I got out early before the crash happened, thank goodness. Side note, I'm rewatching Trollhunters after a few years and it's holding up really well. Protagonists are still charming, animation is good, jokes land but menace is there whenever villainous things happen.
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Dec 5, 2022 20:06
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Larryb posted:Wow, I’ll probably keep watching just to see how much of trainwreck it winds up being but I see your point. Since Shiro apparently sticks around the whole way through does that mean Allura never gets a chance to become a Voltron pilot? The show wants to have its cake and gently caress it too with regard to both Shiro and Allura being Voltron pilots, so you'll see the hanky panky it gets up to in terms of contriving reasons for playing musical chairs with the lions and who gets to pilot them.
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Dec 5, 2022 20:08
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Ah. On another note, did any of the US Voltron shows ever get Japanese dubs out of curiosity (and if so, did they use the GoLion character names)?
Larryb fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Dec 5, 2022 |
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Dec 5, 2022 20:15
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nine-gear crow posted:"Why did people go apeshit over Voltron?" is a loaded question with multiple answers depending on who you ask. It mainly revolves around the plot completely unraveling in its final two seasons, its uneven pacing issues, and just the general degradation, neglect, and disrespect for its main cast and their respective character arcs the closer the show drew to its ending. Allura and Lance are the ones who suffer the most from this, but everyone gets it in one way or another, Keith, Shiro, Pidge, Hunk, Lotor. Especially Lotor. What happens to Lotor is just amazing in its whiplash inducing narrative cowardice. Literally, "Oh no, we actually made Lotor a genuinely good person. poo poo! Quick! Turn him into Ultra Turbo Hitler with zero build up to it! NOW!" There's also something to be said (negatively) for killing off your only female POC coded character in the finale and I'm pretty sure Lance and Allura only happen because they turned Lotor into Turbo Hitler but it doesn't matter because she dies and Lance becomes a... farmer. I had fallen off Voltron and whenever I looked back at it all I saw were the terrible shipping wars but it actually had real thematic problems beyond that.
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Dec 5, 2022 21:19
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DoctorWhat posted:Even when the plot was compelling in the middle bits you can tell that the production team had no sense of what mecha anime is actually like or what makes it cool. Voltron itself doesn't mean anything. It's literally just a big macguffin robot. None of the good poo poo about how people become mechanized in war, or self-realization through idealized forms, and very few if any truly cool fights. Yeah you can really tell Netflix Voltron was the production staff just using the IP to bring their own ideas for a sci-fi series to life(which ends up just mostly being a dull PG Mass Effect knockoff) rather than having any actual respect or interest in the source material
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Dec 5, 2022 21:34
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I don't care if they "respect" GoLion or Defender of the Universe, the issue is that they don't understand the genre appeal.
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Dec 5, 2022 21:41
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Yeah, like half the fun of series like Power Rangers is the new toys (sorry, zords) that get discovered or built, with Wild force having perhaps the largest cast of Zords by sheer numbers, and RPM having fun twists where characters would be actively building new ones, like when Gemma and the Blue Ranger start hanging out and build the autonomous zord that the main zord can kick like a football at their enemies.
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Dec 5, 2022 21:50
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To be fair, not counting the dub splicing in footage from a completely unrelated anime for the second half the original Voltron didn’t have much in the way of new stuff either (and the Japanese version was very much not a kids show)
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Dec 5, 2022 21:54
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DoctorWhat posted:I don't care if they "respect" GoLion or Defender of the Universe, the issue is that they don't understand the genre appeal. Although at the end NetVoltron does start to take shots at the first Voltron in what I assume they thought was terribly a meta idea but is just kind of annoying instead.
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Dec 5, 2022 21:58
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I can broadly see your point, but I feel like, setting aside the actual quality of Netflix Voltron's writing, there isn't anything wrong in focusing on characters and storytelling over selling new toys and gimmicks.
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Dec 5, 2022 21:59
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Junpei posted:I can broadly see your point, but I feel like, setting aside the actual quality of Netflix Voltron's writing, there isn't anything wrong in focusing on characters and storytelling over selling new toys and gimmicks. This is a false dichotomy. When you are writing a story with a giant robot, even if that giant robot is merchandise, the giant robot should say something about the world and the people that interact with it. When Kamen Rider gets a new toy, that new toy is more interesting when it's connected with Kamen Rider's emotional growth trauma, or accomplishments, or foreshadows or reflects something about the setting and themes. In Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans, the Barbatos is rebuilt over time in ways that increasingly reflect Mikazuki's body and mind and those new designs shape the action sequences in parallel to Mikazuki's development. In VLD, the individual lions and weapons start this way early on and do fairly well at it, Shiro in particular, but this completely falls off halfway through the show and the mech fights and action becomes totally perfunctory because character success and failure is not coupled to growth or change in any way. DoctorWhat fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Dec 5, 2022 |
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Dec 5, 2022 22:17
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Junpei posted:I can broadly see your point, but I feel like, setting aside the actual quality of Netflix Voltron's writing, there isn't anything wrong in focusing on characters and storytelling over selling new toys and gimmicks. And that's at the heart of why people lost their poo poo over how the show turned out, because it had been so strongly focused on character and storytelling for its whole run above all else, and then in quick, domino-dropping succession the writing started to catastrophically fail the show's characters. Live by the sword, die by the sword, as it were.
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Dec 5, 2022 22:24
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One thing that stands out about Voltron not being that special all things told was the fact that the flying magic space castle is arguably a more efficient weapon than Voltron. I also agree with 9GCrow that having the Lions have personalities and the pilots needing to work with that and around that was a really cool idea that they sort of shrug and ignore after a while.
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Dec 5, 2022 22:27
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DoctorWhat posted:This is a false dichotomy. When you are writing a story with a giant robot, even if that giant robot is merchandise, the giant robot should say something about the world and the people that interact with it. When Kamen Rider gets a new toy, that new toy is more interesting when it's connected with Kamen Rider's emotional growth trauma, or accomplishments, or foreshadows or reflects something about the setting and themes. In Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans, the Barbatos is rebuilt over time in ways that increasingly reflect Mikazuki's body and mind and those new designs shape the action sequences in parallel to Mikazuki's development. You know what, that's a fair point. My foul, you're right. I really should know as someone who himself is (attempting) to write a kid's show pilot with a Digimon-meets-Kamen-Rider bent where powering up is based on connecting with your monster buddy and making breakthroughs about your emotional state/ideals.
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Dec 5, 2022 22:44
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Junpei posted:You know what, that's a fair point. My foul, you're right. I really should know as someone who himself is (attempting) to write a kid's show pilot with a Digimon-meets-Kamen-Rider bent where powering up is based on connecting with your monster buddy and making breakthroughs about your emotional state/ideals. Just make sure you show don't tell, otherwise you get poo poo like Davis completely whiffing the digiegg of Friendship and then just awkwardly announcing that he's veemon's friend when the latter is being beaten half to death. That would have had a lot more impact if after his initial fear of stepping in and getting hurt himself, he eventually ran in and started trying to fight the villain himself to give Veemon a chance to recuperate. THAT would have earned the hell out of that egg. In all seriousness, good luck, may you get the pizza, and not just get stuck with the crust. BioEnchanted fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Dec 5, 2022 |
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Dec 5, 2022 23:01
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Junpei posted:You know what, that's a fair point. My foul, you're right. I really should know as someone who himself is (attempting) to write a kid's show pilot with a Digimon-meets-Kamen-Rider bent where powering up is based on connecting with your monster buddy and making breakthroughs about your emotional state/ideals. No need for fouls or whatever, this isn't an argument I don't think. Good luck with your pilot!
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Dec 5, 2022 23:17
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Larryb posted:Wow, I’ll probably keep watching just to see how much of trainwreck it winds up being but I see your point. Since Shiro apparently sticks around the whole way through does that mean Allura never gets a chance to become a Voltron pilot? Sort of. Original OG Lion Force/Defender of the Universe ran through all its GoLion footage which ends with them taking over Doom/Galra but since it was the '80s' all the villains escape to fight another day. Except Yurak who outright died in like episode 8. Vehicle Force actually had an ending but it's boring and kind of nonsensical because again, '80s' censorship. Lion Force S2 blatantly doesn't have an ending. Third Dimension also doesn't have an ending because it was canceled right after some end of S2 plot twists. Voltron Force was also canceled without an ending.
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Dec 5, 2022 23:19
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Speaking of, despite not being finished were Third Dimension and/or Voltron Force any good? Also I once tried watching the anime Vehicle Force was based on (Dairugger or something like that) once but had to stop after a few episodes because it was boring and had an overly bloated cast. Does it get any better later?
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Dec 5, 2022 23:36
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There's a reason GoLion and Dairugger were a cheap license is all I'm saying.
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Dec 6, 2022 00:29
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DoctorWhat posted:There's a reason GoLion and Dairugger were a cheap license is all I'm saying. Which that ironically wound up being more popular in the west than in its home country (I’m not sure if Japan even bothered dubbing any of the western made shows)
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Dec 6, 2022 00:33
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Larryb posted:Which that ironically wound up being more popular in the west than in its home country (I’m not sure if Japan even bothered dubbing any of the western made shows) Which led to a lot of head scratching when Go-Lion got picked to be in Super Robot Wars W since in Japan it's considered a very obscure D-List series, which in turn has led to a very persistent rumor that W was being considered for being brought over to the US as pretty much every series on it's roster had been brought over to the US in some form or another
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