|
Gravitas Shortfall posted:The most frustrating thing about DISCO was that it was ALMOST good. Every season I'd be like "well the new stuff sounds interesting, maybe they've learned from their mistakes" only to once more have the football pulled away from me. The S1 story was passable, those time monks even interesting, but the redesigned BSDM-bat klingons ruined it.
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 12:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 19:06 |
|
|
I was willing to accept the weird new Klingons and the different feel of Discovery as just how you get back to making Star Trek after so long, but the big stupid turbolift void in the ship threw me off probably more than should be considered healthy.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 13:26
|
|
|
Der Kyhe posted:The S1 story was passable, those time monks even interesting, but the redesigned BSDM-bat klingons ruined it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 13:29
|
|
|
A good poster posted:I was willing to accept the weird new Klingons and the different feel of Discovery as just how you get back to making Star Trek after so long, but the big stupid turbolift void in the ship threw me off probably more than should be considered healthy. You know the excited feeling you get when you realize how much depth and thought and care went into the design of your favorite setting? That's the opposite feeling, distilled and bottled. They took the ship--whose internal layout was already a "Shippiness Goes Here" chart on a vague Trek vessel shape--and tossed a TARDIS in the middle of it. They don't give a gently caress. They don't even bother feeding us lines about it, no spoonful of sugar for this, it's just a bare-rear end "we thought it looked cool" moment that hollowed out a series main character, the loving SHIP
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 13:41
|
|
|
I like that every pretty much every production made since their appearance has ignored the Discovery Klingon designs.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 13:41
|
|
|
Der Kyhe posted:The S1 story was passable, those time monks even interesting, but the redesigned BSDM-bat klingons ruined it. The moral of S1 is that it's fine to use nuclear blackmail to set up a client state.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 13:41
|
|
|
I remember sitting down to watch the first episode of Discovery and getting to the part where they decide to strap a mine to an enemy corpse as a booby trap and I waited really hard for the moment where a character would stand up and say No and This Is Wrong and then they would make a whole little speech about The Starfleet Way and then proceed to not commit a war crime. I feel like that set my expectations about where they needed to be for the rest of the series.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 16:05
|
|
|
i'm not oblivious to what some folks find abhorrent about it, but man I just do not care about any corpse
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 17:05
|
|
|
Payndz posted:The Klingon redesign was one of those bizarre choices that seems to have no logic other than "we're making this into our Star Trek". We had the TOS-TMP redesign, confirmation in DS9 that something happened to the Klingons that they don't talk about, an actual explanation (however forced and unnecessary) in ENT... then "nah, they changed again to something even more extreme a decade before TOS" - which they walked back themselves the next season! Hey, Klingon, where did the entire back of your skull go? At least that ENT explanation went somewhere to show the idea that the Klingon empire is into genetic manipulation and surgically making infiltrators, as seen in both TOS and Disco.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 17:49
|
|
|
They should have just leaned into it and talked about diverse and malleable the Klingon genome is, which is one of the reasons they're big into honor and ritual because it is not about looking Klingon, it is about BEING Klingon.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 18:18
|
|
|
The biggest problem, other than it being just unnecessary and unrecognizable as a Klingon if they didn't tell you, was the makeup was so thick the actors could barely speak or emote. Every Klingon scene in the first season just sucked rear end. Makes me think they were so in love with the Ash Tyler thing the main requirement for the Klingon makeup was it be so extensive it makes the actor completely unrecognizable. Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Dec 6, 2022 |
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 18:45
|
|
|
Khanstant posted:i'm not oblivious to what some folks find abhorrent about it, but man I just do not care about any corpse I don't care, but the Klingons clearly really did because they were spending the time to ritually bury all of their dead from a huge space battle. There's a really obvious big thing to explore there about identity and culture and belief and they hit the end of the bit that Fuller wrote and abandon it completely. Ash/Voq was probably supposed to be an extension of those ideas.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 19:15
|
|
|
Grand Fromage posted:The biggest problem, other than it being just unnecessary and unrecognizable as a Klingon No it wasnt jesus christ star trek fans are loving blind
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 19:24
|
|
|
bltzn posted:No it wasnt jesus christ star trek fans are loving blind Had I not been told they were Klingons I would have guessed they were a new species, but I agree that once you know they're Klingons they absolutely look like a new take on Klingons.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 19:59
|
|
|
It also helped that they actually spoke Klingonese which isn't that difficult to recognize even if you aren't turbonerd, especially when watching the new STAR TREK series.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 20:00
|
|
|
Apparently I don't remember the first two episodes of Discovery at all, which maybe sounds like a *good* thing. EDIT: Did the writers of the first season search "war crimes" and then put many as they could into the series?
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 20:33
|
|
|
Disco was Lucy with a football for sure. Yeah. S1 Well now that this war thing is over they can go do fun and cool star trek stuff; maybe I'll be able to remember anyone's name. S2 Well maybe now that they've gone to the future they can go do fun and cool star trek stuff; and not be hemmed in by timeline bullshit. Maybe I'll be able to remember the other half of the bridge crews names. S3 They solved the burn and Michael is the captain now so maybe they can do cool fun star trek stuff instead of saving the universe; and now they can stop doing the same Michael needs to be a team player theme. Anyways caught up on LD and SNW LD manages to knock it out of the park yet again... The ctrl c ctrl v fleet showing up to save the day having actual weight and emotional impact because the Cali class is a character in the show was just a masterclass in how to actually earn moments vs. S1 Disco. SNW Xenogorn were dumb but everything else was pretty fantastic. Infidelicious fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Dec 6, 2022 |
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 20:38
|
|
|
Infidelicious posted:the burn Yknow, considering how we just relitigated how often she winds up the focus of galaxy-threatening plots, I halfway expected Commander Michael Burnham to have been in some way responsible for that Like, it would have originally been named after her, but a century and a quarter and massive societal disruptions later, nobody remembered The Burnham Catastrophe and it got shortened to The Burn
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 23:09
|
|
|
every time you guys talked about the burn i thought it was a nickname
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 23:23
|
|
|
That DICK! posted:every time you guys talked about the burn i thought it was a nickname Michael "The Burn" Burnham
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 23:32
|
|
|
The Disco Klingon redesign was inevitable (the Klingons were redesigned for TMP and then Search for Spock and the design augmented and evolved through DS9 before getting another fairly generic makeover first for ST09 and then again for Into Darkness), the problem was just Disco going overboard with it. - Nearly full facial prosthetics that were too thick and non-pliable for actors to speak clearly and emote through - No hair whatsoever, which only highlighted the facial changes - Elaborate costuming changes unlike anything we’d seen from Klingons before - Elaborate architectural production design changes that extended to ship designs as well I maintain that if the Disco Klingons had showed up with only two out of those four changes that things probably would have gone a lot smoother with the fanbase. The facial prosthetics are probably the worst offender though since they actively affected performances and were one of the changes immediately made for season 2.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 23:50
|
|
|
The makeup was whatever, mostly bad in the first season, somewhat better with the hair back in the second, but the worse problem to me was all the weird new Klingon mechanical/prop design. Some of the costuming was fine or legit cool, but all their weapons, ships, even interior sets sometimes, didn't really suit them at all in the first season. If all that were just centered around the Ship of the Dead and T'Kuvma's goofy sect of goons it might've worked okay, or if they actually took the time to properly hammer home the various style clashes of the individual great houses, instead of just tossing everything at the screen and assuming the implication is enough Another year to develop and one (1) showrunner who doesn't bail or get fired would've helped too I'm sure
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2022 00:09
|
|
|
The hilarious thing is if you put Ash Tyler in a lovely gold vest without makeup, he’d be a dead ringer for a TOS Klingon.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2022 00:11
|
|
|
One of the earliest rumors (sparked by concept art of T’Kuvma’s ship labeled “Sarcophagus”) was that they’d be ancient Klingons back to gently caress things up and get modern Klingons to not be so timid around the Federation. It was a total fan speculation bullshit thing that never had any basis in the actual production, but I kinda wish it had ended up being the real reason behind all the changes.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2022 00:13
|
|
|
Big Mean Jerk posted:The Disco Klingon redesign was inevitable (the Klingons were redesigned for TMP and then Search for Spock and the design augmented and evolved through DS9 before getting another fairly generic makeover first for ST09 and then again for Into Darkness), the problem was just Disco going overboard with it. I want Disco Klingons but I want Disco Elysium Klingons somehow.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2022 00:31
|
|
|
The speculation I would've accepted is that they reveal that Klingon means many different species and these are just one type of Klingon. We see the real ones at the end of the series after they get their rear end kicked or something.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2022 01:33
|
|
|
Everyone posted:I want Disco Klingons but I want Disco Elysium Klingons somehow. House Mazov must be restored
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2022 01:41
|
|
|
Eimi posted:The speculation I would've accepted is that they reveal that Klingon means many different species and these are just one type of Klingon. We see the real ones at the end of the series after they get their rear end kicked or something. this makes the most sense to me
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2022 01:52
|
|
|
The only Klingon thing I care about anymore is I hope Strange New Worlds has the stones to have TOS Klingons show up.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2022 02:05
|
|
|
Have their eyebrows be huge and their skin is shiny bronze
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2022 02:10
|
|
|
"We do not discuss it with outsiders!" Amongst ourselves, on the other hand... 
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2022 02:12
|
|
|
TOS Klingons are basically just dudes in brownface so best avoided
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2022 02:29
|
|
|
John Wick of Dogs posted:TOS Klingons are basically just dudes in brownface so best avoided They could just hire dudes with brown skin to play them.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2022 02:33
|
|
|
John Wick of Dogs posted:TOS Klingons are basically just dudes in brownface so best avoided Robert O'Reilly and JG Hertzler weren't exactly the most melanin-imbued folks in the world under all that make up either now... nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Dec 7, 2022 |
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2022 02:53
|
|
|
It's different when there's loaf, I don't know why, but it would be for the best of their makeup was closer to their natural skin tone as well.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2022 03:15
|
|
|
It would have been so easy to have Discovery as a post-DS9 show. The idea that the federation is indoctrinating the Klingons to want to leave the empire behind doesn't make sense AT ALL in a pre-TOS world. It's so loving weird to decide to do it. Discovery has that air of a classic syfy original where they completely re-jig the show series to series to try and get more viewers. Earth Final Conflict style. So if you watch series 1 then series 4 you get whiplash because it's a whole new cast and a whole new concept because each one wasn't QUITE jelling so they went back and changed it. I've said it before but I work for a company that does subscription TV in the UK and when Discovery vanished and went to PlutoTV not one loving person called to ask about it. I guess that could be because star trek fans are more tech literate - so more likely to be able to find it - but man people call about any other tiny little change. I wish it was possible to find out how many people actually watch these things. Although I do notice Discovery has 123k reviews on IMDB,Lower Decks is only on 12k and SNW is on 30k. I know it's not the most foolproof system to find out how many people are watching but it vaguely works with steam reviews so it might at least give a general idea
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2022 03:24
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2022 03:51
|
|
|
It was pretty weird when Dal and the gang went inside the Borg cube. That was absurdly dangerous. Sidenote: I like the detail of some of the Borg being non-humans. I don't think TNG depicted that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2022 04:10
|
|
|
Taear posted:The idea that the federation is indoctrinating the Klingons to want to leave the empire behind doesn't make sense AT ALL in a pre-TOS world. It's so loving weird to decide to do it. It's an idea proposed insincerely by an outcast zealot and the Klingons proper don't even give it a second thought. The entire point was someone successfully manufactured a conflict by taking advantage of knowing how both sides would act
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2022 04:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 19:06 |
|
|
"Oh no, the consequences of my actions. Fancy seeing you here again..." Also that's kind of horrifying to think that the loving Kazon just rolled in and took over the hollowed out Borg transwarp network across the Delta Quadrant, and probably farther.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2022 04:16
|
|