(Thread IKs:
sharknado slashfic)
|
I'm sorry to hear that and hope you feel better soon, friend (not being ironic) I had an aitee dream a couple hours ago which woke me up in a panic at 4 am. I was in the garden of my parents' house with my brothers and saw an enormous V style one with rainbow lights that were flashing. I was delighted and amazed and was trying to get my brothers to look at it but they weren't interested. It stopped moving across the sky and started to slowly, imperceptibly come down towards us, I think (I can't remember exactly) in a falling leaf motion. As it got closer it kinda changed shape or a part of it became transparent or something because I could see inside and there were greys. Except they were more yellowish green. They looked kinda plasticky and toy like, but they were defo alive and they were looking at me. My joy turned to terror and my brothers finally also noticed and were also terrified. The things were coming for us, the feeling was of being hunted. I rushed them inside the house and got them to put on shoes. I was trying to remain calm and keep them calm but I knew time was of the essence and I knew the house would be no protection. My plan was for us all to bolt out the front door and sprint to my Nan's house a few streets away (she never lived close to us in reality). In the dream we were all young, at least at this point, and for whatever reason I thought that finding an adult would protect us. We went out. The noise was deafening, the clouds were huge and red. The ship wasn't visible, hidden behind the house. Cars were driving up and down like nothing was happening, it was bizarre. Then I woke up with my heart beating out of my chest and I was afraid to move for awhile. Anyway, that's my story. Now I'm awake again and super tired and grumpy and don't want to go for my morning run because my sleep was disrupted. Thanks aitee
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 08:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 18:07 |
|
|
So according to Nolan, Radar wants to make my dummy thicc brain hemispheres clap?
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 12:53
|
|
|
Bird Thread Vibes
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 13:41
|
|
|
what would you all do if the exact copy of the voyager record was transmitted back, from where the directions of the voyagers are, but with the pics of the un overlaid with a sphere marked something like | 22 m | -2y
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 18:11
|
|
|
hey now don't be crowdsourcing your contract work show us the disc
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 18:30
|
|
|
It's interesting that much was made by John Mack about how experiencers could be anyone from any walk of life, there was no standard and he interviewed a huge variety of people who had abduction experiences that didn't have much in common from his profiling. Now Nolan is saying the opposite, actually they have a special area of the brain in common. Would really like to know if there's any overlap in people Mack studied and those Nolan had tested.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 18:32
|
|
|
SniperWoreConverse posted:what would you all do if the exact copy of the voyager record was transmitted back, from where the directions of the voyagers are, but with the pics of the un overlaid with a sphere marked something like | 22 m | -2y I would immediately go to defcon 5 and call for the Enterprise to investigate the source of the signal
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 18:39
|
|
|
i'd ask to roll for a perception check and see if any aliems are stealthed in the room
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 18:42
|
|
|
the only reason to dismiss NDEs is out of a purely ideological commitment to a certain metaphysics
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 20:11
|
|
|
Jazerus posted:a rabbi opened a thermal vortex on skinwalker ranch as some guy named "dragon" nodded approvingly There's something crazy on thermal over at the Triangle and it's headed for Homestead 2!
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 20:15
|
|
|
Rickshaw posted:the only reason to dismiss NDEs is out of a purely ideological commitment to a certain metaphysics This is the conclusion I've had to come to also, yeah
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 20:18
|
|
|
Rickshaw posted:the only reason to dismiss NDEs is out of a purely ideological commitment to a certain metaphysics I think it’s a completely plausible explanation that the brain experiences similar hallucinations under similar traumatic events and that the sensations of experiences are due to misfunction? It’s ultimately probably impossible to tell whether or not the experiences are completely subjective products of the brain or not, but not necessarily out of ideology, other than an ideology of empirical evidence
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 20:22
|
|
|
poisonpill posted:I think it’s a completely plausible explanation that the brain experiences similar hallucinations under similar traumatic events and that the sensations of experiences are due to misfunction? It’s ultimately probably impossible to tell whether or not the experiences are completely subjective products of the brain or not, but not necessarily out of ideology, other than an ideology of empirical evidence The brain also produces endogenous hallucinogens so seems to be a good way to take your mind off of things during the end of life?
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 20:29
|
|
|
https://thedebrief.org/japans-space-agency-successfully-completes-first-flight-of-steam-powered-spacecraft/Bilirubin posted:The brain also produces endogenous hallucinogens so seems to be a good way to take your mind off of things during the end of life? But what possible reason would evolution have to develop that? There is no evolutionary advantage I can think of to make you feel good when you are dying.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 20:33
|
|
|
Bilirubin posted:The brain also produces endogenous hallucinogens so seems to be a good way to take your mind off of things during the end of life? Nah, it doesn't, at least not in any quantities remotely able to provide an actual hallucinogenic experience, and even then not the kind of consistent and ultra-clear experiences of an NDE, which is very different to psychedelics (so say people who've had both) The DMT hypothesis is pretty solidly refuted already
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 20:43
|
|
|
poisonpill posted:I think it’s a completely plausible explanation that the brain experiences similar hallucinations under similar traumatic events and that the sensations of experiences are due to misfunction? It’s ultimately probably impossible to tell whether or not the experiences are completely subjective products of the brain or not, but not necessarily out of ideology, other than an ideology of empirical evidence a near-universal feature of NDEs is that the experiencer reports during the NDE they feel more lucid than everyday life. As in, the NDE experience feels to them, subjectively after the fact, as though entering that state was like waking from a dream, and returning to "normal" consciousness is like going back into a dream state. I can't envision how misfunction can explain that, when the methods of reaching this NDE state (as PMJ was laying out) are varied enough as to include clinical brain death, cardiac arrest, and near misses with death that involve no physical trauma at all, or trauma only to another present. These brain states should be completely disparate and unrelated to one another, but experiences seem to line up with each other in spooky ways. hallucination could have some explanatory power in some cases, but it just doesn't cover the whole gamut of possibilities. Or, at least, it's not satisfying to me, and becomes even less so the more i look into it. the ideological distinction here is whether one believes there's a point at which anecdotal reports can constitute evidence in the aggregate. if no, then sure i guess you can never know anything you didn't experience firsthand or deduce through pure logic. enjoy your solipsism i guess (not directed at you personally) D-Pad posted:But what possible reason would evolution have to develop that? There is no evolutionary advantage I can think of to make you feel good when you are dying. yeah, this would be another great followup. there's no good explanation for evolutionary selection in an individual that's in the process of dying, and really only comes back to talk about it very rarely naturally or through the power of medicine we've come up with in the last century or two. regardless if it's produced by dmt released by the pineal gland or whatever
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 20:48
|
|
|
Plus evolution doesn't have goals and mostly only culls disadvantages, if it's not that big a disadvantage it stays. If you need a thing for some other process that is advantageous and it has this one weird side effect well enjoy your piece of crap eyeball with the nerves on the wrong side, or your rear end backwards hominid skeleton, or whatever. If it's something pretty useless it just becomes vestigial but if it's not actively disadvantageous it's not gonna be totally removed, & might get repurposed for something else.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 20:48
|
|
|
poisonpill posted:I think it’s a completely plausible explanation that the brain experiences similar hallucinations under similar traumatic events and that the sensations of experiences are due to misfunction? It’s ultimately probably impossible to tell whether or not the experiences are completely subjective products of the brain or not, but not necessarily out of ideology, other than an ideology of empirical evidence Manner of death has no effect on whether NDEs do or do not occur; "under similar traumatic events" is categorically false, the event does not have to be traumatically caused and the event, irrespective of trauma, does not have to be similar (i.e., there is no greater prevalence of NDEs for one type of injury/illness/death than any other). For the same reason there is no similar or consistent misfunctioning of the brain with the exception of the generalized death of the brain, which we note as a downturn and eventual absence of metabolic activity in the brain. "It’s ultimately probably impossible to tell whether or not the experiences are completely subjective products of the brain or not, but not necessarily out of ideology, other than an ideology of empirical evidence," doesn't really mean anything. Consciousness is intractable in the figuring of any and all reality as such. You can no more separate consciousness - subjectivity and its relationship to the brain - from evaluations of NDEs as you can for evaluations of phenomena in physics (and we know, in fact, that consciousness cannot perceive reality and we have good reason, even, to think that there isn't any such thing as "independent reality" whatsoever). So can we ultimate disentangle the phenomena? No, but we never can in any instance anyway so it's neither here nor there. Maintaining an "ideology of empirical evidence" - which we should, absolutely - we do have a wealth of empirical evidence in the form of testimonial evidence, retrospective study, and some weak but extant prospective studies into NDEs. Among these we have testimonial evidence, a huge amount, from NDErs who believed at some time that NDEs are a hallucination. Curiously, there are not very many NDErs at all anywhere - including among those who have at some time held that NDEs are hallucinations - who believe that NDEs are hallucinations. Moreover, we have evidentiary, studied, reasons to support this claim from experiencers besides that it is consistently reported and besides the reports themselves: NDEs are most typically among the most vivid memories in that person's life. It has been demonstrated that an NDEr will recount the same experience with absolute fidelity when reporting it initially and when recounting it some decades later (in the study the average period was 20 years). We do not find this consistency and recollection in memories of hallucinations, or in memories of things we've dreamt, or even typically in what is our every day usual memory. Still, if we stick to just the former point: why do you think it's the case almost nobody at all who has an NDE believes the NDE to be a hallucinatory experience?
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 20:48
|
|
|
SniperWoreConverse posted:Plus evolution doesn't have goals and mostly only culls disadvantages, if it's not that big a disadvantage it stays. If you need a thing for some other process that is advantageous and it has this one weird side effect well enjoy your piece of crap eyeball with the nerves on the wrong side, or your rear end backwards hominid skeleton, or whatever. If it's something pretty useless it just becomes vestigial but if it's not actively disadvantageous it's not gonna be totally removed, & might get repurposed for something else. We're talking about a phenomena that when experienced has the following typical effects on the experiencer: a belief in God if it was previously absent, a renewed faith in God if it was previously present*; a belief in the afterlife, irrespective of belief in the afterlife prior to the experience; a belief in the Unity and Oneness of all things and a pantheistic belief in God, with God as within and selfsame*; a belief and/or experience of a transcendental and extreme notion of Love; a belief and/or experience of a transcendental and extreme notion of Light, which may or may not be conflated with Love; a belief against Earthly notions of success (wealth, accolades, power). *Pantheistic or forms of beliefs which typically make up what we call "spirituality" (contra religiosity) typically replace the religious-institution-inflected belief in God that was present in the experiencer, if it was present. Beyond these typical effects on belief there is also a typical effect on progressive experiences of parapsychological and/or paranormal events. That is, an NDEr, subsequent to the event, is likely to believe in, experience, or practice: energy/light healing; psychic abilities especially intuitive abilities of weak telepathy, strong empathy, clairvoyance, premonition; mediumship; UAP encounters; have ghostly experience; and almost the entire gamut of paranormal phenomena up to and including cryptid sightings. It's extremely eyebrow raising for an accidental evolutionary quirk to have these specific effects, if you ask me. Perry Mason Jar has issued a correction as of 21:02 on Dec 6, 2022 |
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 21:00
|
|
|
Perry Mason Jar posted:Still, if we stick to just the former point: why do you think it's the case almost nobody at all who has an NDE believes the NDE to be a hallucinatory experience? I really don’t know enough to have an opinion or belief one way or the other. I still think it’s a fair point to say that it’s going to be essentially impossible to determine if an event experienced entirely in the brain is objectively real or not.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 21:03
|
|
|
poisonpill posted:I really don’t know enough to have an opinion or belief one way or the other. I still think it’s a fair point to say that it’s going to be essentially impossible to determine if an event experienced entirely in the brain is objectively real or not. I have bad news about all of reality
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 21:06
|
|
|
Perry Mason Jar posted:It's extremely eyebrow raising for an accidental evolutionary quirk to have these specific effects, if you ask me. All I'm saying is if there was somehow some such accidental malfunction then evolution wouldn't give a poo poo because it doesn't give poo poo's & can't
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 21:10
|
|
|
poisonpill posted:I really don’t know enough to have an opinion or belief one way or the other. I still think it’s a fair point to say that it’s going to be essentially impossible to determine if an event experienced entirely in the brain is objectively real or not. It's not impossible at all. In fact we have exactly that type of (retrospective) evidence for NDEs. If the brain is shutting down or malfunctioning, and the individual is unconscious, then we should not expect them to have any experience at all. You are saying they aren't having an objectively real experience but rather a hallucination. So we will say we should not expect them to have any experience which is objectively real, only experiences which are hallucinated. That being the case we should not expect them to produce any knowledge of events occurring in reality, yes? So a person dying on an operating table has no way of knowing anything about events happening in the room around them. Well we know that NDErs, contra people who didn't have an NDE, are able to give accurate accounts of events in the room in which they were dying. (Among many accounts there is also one study which surveyed cardiac arrest patients after resuscitation: those who had an NDE gave accurate accounts of medical interventions and those who didn't gave inaccurate, guessed or As-Seen-on-TV accounts of events). We could say, then, that the NDE hallucination is informed in some subconscious way by some sensing organs which are in some way functioning. Kind of weird but okay. It doesn't tell us why a patient would be able to give details about colors, things people wore, and everything requiring vision if their eyes are closed and they're unconscious on a gurney. But maybe something gets through some other way. Well, can NDErs give verified true information about events happening outside of the rooms where they were dying? Yup. Can they give verified true information about hidden objects of which they had no knowledge? Also yes. Can they report the deaths of the recently deceased, before the discovery of their death by others? Yes again. And so on. So we do have veridical impossible knowledge as a measure for testing the objective realness of the NDE. And we also do have accounts of veridical impossible knowledge from NDEs/NDErs. SniperWoreConverse posted:All I'm saying is if there was somehow some such accidental malfunction then evolution wouldn't give a poo poo because it doesn't give poo poo's & can't Yeah at best it could be selected against but there's no reason for that happening here. Perry Mason Jar has issued a correction as of 21:20 on Dec 6, 2022 |
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 21:17
|
|
|
Perry Mason Jar posted:We're talking about a phenomena that when experienced has the following typical effects on the experiencer: a belief in God if it was previously absent, a renewed faith in God if it was previously present*; a belief in the afterlife, irrespective of belief in the afterlife prior to the experience; a belief in the Unity and Oneness of all things and a pantheistic belief in God, with God as within and selfsame*; a belief and/or experience of a transcendental and extreme notion of Love; a belief and/or experience of a transcendental and extreme notion of Light, which may or may not be conflated with Love; a belief against Earthly notions of success (wealth, accolades, power). The primacy of direct experience when it comes to the conviction experiencers feel, as you noted earlier, can't be overstated. I've been thinking a lot about that since achieving transpersonal effects in ketamine therapy; like I went in eager for the opportunity to have a wholly new subjective experience at this stage in life, but I wasn't prepared at all for how powerful it was gonna be. At the height of it I had a sense that I understood something absolutely fundamental about the nature of being, but I couldn't carry that information out with me. It's like its information encoded in some other format than I otherwise read. Given that the intensity of my experience has to be a fraction of a fraction of what folks get in an NDE (and may not be comparable at all?) and I've had so much difficulty with using language to describe it, I've been reading the NDERF reports a little differently, and the argument Amberts makes feels even stronger.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 21:19
|
|
|
"it's probably just a hallucination", i scream into the void, as my mind begins to process the compressed waves of rapidly vanishing air, my hearing distorting and quieting, the negative pressure and stinging cold is beginning to cause me pain, my brain begins to fail and my vision fades, and the all-encompassing cold fades into a numb totality, and just before I enter my next phase I reali-
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 21:22
|
|
|
Riot Bimbo posted:"it's probably just a hallucination", i scream into the void, as my mind begins to process the compressed waves of rapidly vanishing air, my hearing distorting and quieting, the negative pressure and stinging cold is beginning to cause me pain, my brain begins to fail and my vision fades, and the all-encompassing cold fades into a numb totality, and just before I enter my next phase I reali- Zelda: Link's Awakening taught me all about this back in the first grade
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 21:30
|
|
|
I imagine it goes a little something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH37JTBpi2A&t=50s
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 21:34
|
|
|
So I've been meaning to post this for a while itt but haven't because I have the posting power of a lesser ape. I actually had a NDE five years back! I decided to minecraft myself so I took a bunch of crime pills and as their effect became worse I called an ambulance and I died for about a minute? Or a half. Maybe less. Anyway I got brain damage now and borderline retarded lol. ANYWAY my experience is super hard to tell too, because time didn't really flow linearly in that state. Compare a line to a plane and I guess you can imagine something similar. I basically had a bunch of people tell me to Not Do That and as posters before me have said, it felt extremely real. I must assume a bunch of brain matter is dedicated to filtering reality in a way that's useful for survival and or loving, and in death i guess the brain says gently caress you to that in order to figure out a way to survive? Either way, it felt more whole than this life. It's very hard to explain and I sure as hell don't have the brain for it. Ask me questions and I might answer once I wake up I guess. Ps 5 years clean now 8)
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 21:46
|
|
|
^edit: hey NDE posting pal i had an NDE-like experience when i was in the hospital five years ago, but i can't describe it properly without feeling like i'm misrepresenting or confabulating. it's like a little slippery thing that descriptive words just bounce off of, something without any analogy impossibly big and infinitely complex
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 21:50
|
|
|
Yeah like I feel you'd need an entirely new language to explain it tbh.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 21:52
|
|
|
They told me I could go back or stay and that everyone would be ok if I stayed. If I did decide to go back, I wouldn't be happy about it. If the blue elf chick says it's cool to stay, you should stay.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 22:04
|
|
|
Sushi The Kid posted:They told me I could go back or stay and that everyone would be ok if I stayed. If I did decide to go back, I wouldn't be happy about it. If the blue elf chick says it's cool to stay, you should stay. Otoh I got told I HAVE to go back and I really, really didn't want to
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 22:06
|
|
|
typhus posted:At the height of it I had a sense that I understood something absolutely fundamental about the nature of being, but I couldn't carry that information out with me. It's like its information encoded in some other format than I otherwise read. I've been having extremely vivid and unsettling dreams about different things, getting this, and also not being able to come back with anything reasonable that even slightly makes sense in any way. I also started on epilepsy meds because my brain is malfunctioning, I feel like maybe this is happening because the seizures are stopping but can't pin it down. Like one was me breaking into my old place which was now an abandoned ruin, finding somebody's poetry notebook thing and knowing it's something I need to bring back to her even though we haven't talked in years, looking out the blown out hosed up smashed wall & window & that whole area is now some kind of rose colored rock outcrop of a mountain, then the sounds of crickets & frogs become so deafening I wake up realizing I'm talking and I had to google and find it was a compassion mantra i haven't heard for a while, but have heard before. The only cogent aspect other than this description was the kind of whiff of something like the residual idea of "it's in the air." Completely insane, what do you do with this? There's nothing you do with this, you can't grip it to look at it or evaluate. I don't think it's some message from the deep, but who knows? There's nothing I can figure out to do with it tho, other than ask the brain doc if my situation can have weird dreams come up. I'll believe I've had an experience when there's something I can actually communicate to someone else. SniperWoreConverse has issued a correction as of 22:17 on Dec 6, 2022 |
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 22:13
|
|
|
endocriminologist posted:Ps 5 years clean now 8)  endocriminologist posted:Yeah like I feel you'd need an entirely new language to explain it tbh. This reminds me of the theory back in the olden days before civilization people had plenty of time to mess around & eventually developed language. If we could still do that, & given enough time, maybe we could get "language 2" Maybe that's the way to get uaptech understood, you need a broader base that we don't have
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 22:45
|
|
|
Rickshaw posted:the only reason to dismiss NDEs is out of a purely ideological commitment to a certain metaphysics The only reason to entertain spirituality is out of a tremendously warped worldview that has failed to internalize evolutionary biology.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 23:03
|
|
|
Ratios and Tendency posted:The only reason to entertain spirituality is out of a tremendously warped worldview that has failed to internalize evolutionary biology. you're literally dismissing the wealth of experiences of others due to ideological adherence, this is absurd
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 23:18
|
|
|
Perhaps you should examine the highly-cited paper The Evolution of the Soul, by P. Nti et al
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 23:18
|
|
|
Hooplah posted:you're literally dismissing the wealth of experiences of others due to ideological adherence, this is absurd But have you considered that all those people are just really dumb, unlike me
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 23:24
|
|
|
Ratios and Tendency posted:The only reason to entertain spirituality is out of a tremendously warped worldview that has failed to internalize evolutionary biology. drat coming for spirituality writ large is wild lmao. Have you read like literally any scientific study on meditation? Do you know what evolutionary biology means or nah?
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 23:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 18:07 |
|
|
Perry Mason Jar posted:drat coming for spirituality writ large is wild lmao. Have you read like literally any scientific study on meditation? I have personal experience with meditation, hypnosis and lucid dreaming, it's all good. I don't see how they imply anything beyond a physical brain though. quote:Do you know what evolutionary biology means or nah? I do yeah. Hooplah posted:you're literally dismissing the wealth of experiences of others due to ideological adherence, this is absurd I have no problem with the idea of people experiencing weird brain things in times of extreme stress, oxygen deprivation, injury whatever, I just doubt there's anything magical going on.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2022 23:59
|
|