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It looked nice tho
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Dec 7, 2022 19:23
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Gou and Sotsu contextualize some conversations from Umineko so well that it’s hard to believe it wasn’t planned on some level for years. (It’s still not good, really, but it does fit in a gap and answer some questions.) Anyways I had forgotten how loving weird Episode 3 is and I have thoughts and theories and stuff that I want to jot down when I’m not on my phone here.
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Dec 7, 2022 20:19
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DemoneeHo posted:Gou and Sotsu were just... awful. Some writers and editors really sat down and thought yes, this is a good idea, let's animate this tedious and repetitive anime, the fans will love it. And then they recycled whole scenes from Gou into Sotsu.
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Dec 7, 2022 20:30
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VostokProgram posted:Spoilers for all the episodes: (So Math don't read this, since it's full "whydunnit" spoilers) "Battler's sin" is honestly a pretty minor part of the whydunnit, even if it's what receives a lot of focus in Episode 7. Episode 2 probably contains the most information about the motive, since it's the one that contains a lot of internal dialogue about the "furniture" stuff (all of the scenes with Shannon or Kanon talking/arguing with Beatrice basically directly represent Yasu internal dialogue). The main issues are a combination of the Natsuhi drop injury + being raised as a girl without awareness of it (which is where most of the self-hatred "furniture" stuff comes from) and "learning that she's a child of incest between Kinzo and Kinzo's daughter" (which also contributes to said self-hatred + hatred of the Ushiromiya family in general - though that hatred is obviously balanced with also loving them, which is why the episodes are written the way they are). Plus not really having much of a family, outside of Kumasawa and Genji. The fact that she learned this stuff after already being in a relationship with George (which heightens the stress, since she's constantly facing down the likely-disaster of George finding out about her body) also contributes to what she decides to do during the family conference. That's where the Battler issue comes in (and why Battler is "responsible" for the epitaph murders). The murders are ultimately done (or planned, since she never actually carries them out in reality) in an attempt to get Battler to figure out things for himself, because she simultaneously wants to be understood (which she - probably correctly - thinks Battler is her best chance for) while also being too scared to bring it up herself. In a world where Battler doesn't return to the conference, she probably either commits suicide or just sets off the bomb without the epitaph murders. So it's not so much that "Battler's sin" is the main cause, but more that it's just the specific reason that her despair took the form of the epitaph murders. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Dec 7, 2022 |
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Dec 7, 2022 20:46
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VostokProgram posted:Spoilers for all the episodes: I'll just say that if you read it again, you can catch a lot more than just that. Fun one is now rethinking the boob grab scene from episode 1.
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Dec 8, 2022 01:04
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Ytlaya posted:(So Math don't read this, since it's full "whydunnit" spoilers) *STILL BIG FULL UMINEKO SPOILERS HERE DONT CLICK* Something I didn't quite realize until the manga gave the full answers to the story was Sayo really loves Battler. Like, a lot. Way more than George or Jessica, and as soon as she finds out he's coming back for 1986 she has already fully given up on G and J and has switched her perogative to "Battler please solve the mystery I created for you, and become the head, and I will devote my life to you!!!" It was a little hard for me to parse it originally because, obviously, she is deeply in denial to herself that she doesn't care about Battler at all anymore, and that she can actually move on with George even though she doesn't actually want to And now it's safe past this point for the readers I like seacats!
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Dec 8, 2022 01:30
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Rockman Reserve posted:Anyways I had forgotten how loving weird Episode 3 is and I have thoughts and theories and stuff that I want to jot down when I’m not on my phone here. Okay, these are thoughts on rereading 3 in the context of 1-6. I'm sticking with it at least for a while because I absolutely do not remember some of this stuff clearly at all - I originally read it a couple years ago and I don't know if I had just given up on thinking entirely back then (entirely possible, that was a rough year) or just wasn't thinking about things, but I definitely missed/don't recall some obvious things like Virgilia's introduction/awakening. So I'm kind of rushing through it again. Anyway, my two biggest thoughts right now are golly, there sure were a hell of a lot of people falling off cliffs in 1967 and Episode 3 is making me wonder a lot about the limits of Knox's 4th about 'unknown devices'. Like, I'm not going to theorydump again because I've embarrassed myself enough with my wild guesses already, but it's not like Knox's is applicable outside of the game board anyway, which has been pretty strictly defined as the weekend of the family conference. If we take the actual murder games as mysteries adhering to the rules, that still (in my mind, maybe, at least considering the way and context Knox's 4th is used in the text) might leave a little bit of wiggle room for some weird science-fantasy stuff around the edges/framing story. I mean I'm still absolutely convinced that the whole ....thing....(?) is a warning/message, so if that message conforms to the decalogue out of style or necessity I don't think that that automatically discounts other weirdness, really. Plus, by the end of Episode 6's epilogues, the meta-world has become obviously much more important than the game board anyway. fuckiti'llload7backup e: lmao two minutes into where I loaded into the beginning of 7 they reference Van Dine's commandments. "I'm going to tell it without love" indeed, haha. Rockman Reserve fucked around with this message at 09:47 on Dec 8, 2022 |
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Dec 8, 2022 09:38
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No please, theory dump to your heart's content I would like to read them over a spot of tea.
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Dec 8, 2022 09:46
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Nyaawn posted:No please, theory dump to your heart's content I would like to read them over a spot of tea. Eh, the problem is that opening the door to that line of thinking allows all kinds of wild theories to form, almost fractally, and maybe that's kinda part of the point or theme, honestly, but at the same time that means I'm not champing at the bit to even write anything out as a solid "guess". The most I'll even own up to thinking is whether there's some kind of Bad Thing that happens every 19 years (relative to what? who knows?) but even that's more of a random thought I've been using as a broad sort of idea to hang other theories onto or try to find evidence against. e: well what the gently caress is all this then e2: no seriously lmao what Rockman Reserve fucked around with this message at 10:18 on Dec 8, 2022 |
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Dec 8, 2022 09:59
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Rockman Reserve posted:e: well what the gently caress is all this then For reference, these two edits were from when Lion first shows up right before I had to save and quit, and then reading her TIPS entry on the system menu as I was exiting out. Just....what??? e: I'm still barely in 'cuz I'm going sloooow but I already love Will, he is a great reader stand-in so far. e2: oh god after looking at that LP compilation for so long I wasn't expecting any red and blue text here - that site only went through Episode 6. Okay, I'm gonna shut up for a while. 
Rockman Reserve fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Dec 9, 2022 |
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Dec 9, 2022 00:03
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Rockman Reserve posted:For reference, these two edits were from when Lion first shows up right before I had to save and quit, and then reading her TIPS entry on the system menu as I was exiting out. Just....what??? You got a Witch you got a Wardrobe and now you're surprised a Lion shows up?
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Dec 9, 2022 04:58
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jesus loving christ what the gently caress - kinzo - Gaius Marius posted:You got a Witch you got a Wardrobe and now you're surprised a Lion shows up? lmao
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Dec 9, 2022 06:33
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You really got two lions. Don't forget Sakutarou! 
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Dec 9, 2022 07:25
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VostokProgram posted:Don't forget Sakutarou! Oh how I wish I could
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Dec 9, 2022 09:18
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tear tear tear to shreds
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Dec 9, 2022 09:22
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Rockman Reserve posted:jesus loving christ what the gently caress - kinzo -
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Dec 9, 2022 11:26
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It's kind of insane that after that short reveal/discussion everyone else is like "oh yeah haha that's hosed up. Well, anyway...." I want to see more Kanon and Shannon. Their scene at the reception desk kinda confirmed what I already knew but did it in a weiiiird way. Plus I'm pretty bummed that Battler doesn't seem to be appearing in this one. The origin of the gold and Beatrice the First made perfect sense so far, though.
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Dec 9, 2022 17:26
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I love the reception desk scene. It's so good
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Dec 9, 2022 17:55
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Episode 7 is probably the best episode. Also has some great music.
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Dec 9, 2022 17:57
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More spoilers for everything Why are Shannon and Kanon even present in episode 7? Does Lion pretend to be a servant???
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Dec 9, 2022 17:59
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VostokProgram posted:More spoilers for everything I think it was largely because so many readers still hadn't figured out their deal, even after episode 6's duel stuff. So he had to add in something making it even more obvious (due to being unwilling to be fully explicit). Edit: I think the "meta explanation" was just something like "all the pieces have been gathered together for this meta-funeral thing." It also was a way to provide information in the form of "if Lion exists, Shannon/Kanon can't exist (and vice versa)." Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Dec 9, 2022 |
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Dec 9, 2022 18:07
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Ytlaya posted:Episode 7 is probably the best episode. Also has some great music. Part of the reason I'm taking it so slowly is because there's so many fun little barbs about the other games. I lost it at Bernkastel asking "Well, Witch Of Theatergoing and stuff Featherine Something Auaurora, are you entertained yet?" I'm just past the 1944 scenes and barely into the Maria scenes but the question I feel is worth trying to figure out that isn't being referenced much/at all is "BUT WHO WAS e: I also get the distinct feeling that after this episode is over I'm going to really wish it had been witches all along. e2 : i think I was right about a fair amount-ish Rockman Reserve fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Dec 10, 2022 |
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Dec 9, 2022 18:11
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I started six. Battler writes a lot more hints than Beato ever did. Also, the eagle crest on Erika's veil was a nice touch. Obviously Beato is eventually coming back, the entire point of having Featherine say that Beato won't in red is to set up some kind of wordplay dodge later on. Question arcs Beatrice is so irredeemable as a romantic interest that Ryukishi had to kill her off to start the relationship over again from scratch. Lol. Here's an alternate interpretation. Beatrice never wanted to be mean to Battler at all. However, Lambdadelta would only allow her to be a witch as long as Beatrice acted cruel, so she went along with it and tried to give Battler the most comfortable and romantic eternal torture she could come up with. She can be in the story only if she is a villain, so she was trying to be a convincing villain but pining for Battler the whole time. Possibly she's inept at pulling her punches. A similar vibe to (a 2022 RPG with a meta twist) the ending of that FF1 remake where you're Garland. I'm not sure how to politely label the spoilers in I'm cracking up now that I realize the baby 19 years ago got a penis injury from the fall. Kanon and Shannon are having an open argument about whether or not she can be with George despite not being able to make babies for him. That's how much this one person hates themself and their body. Then they resolve to flirt with everyone, marry whoever they can get first, and discard their other worksona completely. With confidence issues this bad, Shannon/George is going to go to some very dark places; George has a latent tendency towards manipulation that he gets from his mom. It's so melodramatic it's kind of sickly funny. I'm not expecting Ryukishi to offer a nuanced take on intersex stories at all, so I'm trying not to worry too much about the implications for the moment. Edit: The Weekend at Bernie's/Hedwig and the Angry Inch crossover no one asked for. So Math fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Dec 10, 2022 |
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Dec 10, 2022 14:54
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by god it is so hard not to look at some of these spoilers When I’m finally done I’m going to go through and read them all, Umineko Episode 9: spoilers and theories
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Dec 10, 2022 17:07
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i cant stop watching umineko memes
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Dec 10, 2022 22:30
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Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Dec 11, 2022 |
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Dec 10, 2022 22:44
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Nate RFB posted:Sounds like someone is ready for some Flo spoiler tag that stuff in the Diary thread
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Dec 11, 2022 00:05
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i'm confused
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Dec 11, 2022 00:34
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So Math posted:Here's an alternate interpretation. Beatrice never wanted to be mean to Battler at all. However, Lambdadelta would only allow her to be a witch as long as Beatrice acted cruel, so she went along with it and tried to give Battler the most comfortable and romantic eternal torture she could come up with. She can be in the story only if she is a villain, so she was trying to be a convincing villain but pining for Battler the whole time. Possibly she's inept at pulling her punches. A similar vibe to (a 2022 RPG with a meta twist) the ending of that FF1 remake where you're Garland.[/spoiler] You may wish to reread the ending to 3 with Beato and Ange and think about what it might mean.
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Dec 11, 2022 08:47
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Rockman Reserve posted:jesus loving christ what the gently caress - kinzo -
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Dec 12, 2022 00:11
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Rockman Reserve posted:jesus loving christ what the gently caress - kinzo - Umineko.txt
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Dec 12, 2022 02:01
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I'm like halfway through the book in Episode 7 and it's wild how despite how much of the vague framework I understood, I still don't really follow some of the implications. Like, why the hell is Beatrice Gaap? Is it just because Don't-Call-Me-Yasu was imagining them based on the vague rumors of the island until the portrait went up? And how does Kumasawa being a Beatrice fit into the three (well, four) Beatrices? Is it just because she'd help the kids get away with stuff, like when Eva broke that vase? I really like that it drops pretty much all pretext of Shannon being a separate Human. "All the Fukuin servants except for me all quit at once. I'm glad Shannon was still there to comfort me," and all the stuff about the dorm assignments make it pretty obvious. I still want to know why Shannon/????? know that everything is going to end in 1986, and who Battler is - even if Asumu isn't his mom, even if he's the lost child from 19 years ago, that seems to raise more questions than it actually answers. I...don't think that as presented it's very easy to fit Battler in as another one of ?????'s one-yet-many personalities. I'm really curious to see how this all builds up to the massacre in 1986. I'm sure I'll find out soon, I think I saved right as the 1980 family conference was beginning. Final thought: Doctor Nanjo just gives zero fucks, huh. At least Kumasawa and Genji are directly employed by Kinzo and are ostensibly trying to do the right thing in an awful situation, at least on some level. I'm not sure what mandatory reporting laws there are in Japan but christ Nanjo, you're a loving doctor, why are you covering any of this poo poo up.
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Dec 12, 2022 16:00
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Rockman Reserve posted:Final thought: Doctor Nanjo just gives zero fucks, huh. At least Kumasawa and Genji are directly employed by Kinzo and are ostensibly trying to do the right thing in an awful situation, at least on some level. I'm not sure what mandatory reporting laws there are in Japan but christ Nanjo, you're a loving doctor, why are you covering any of this poo poo up.
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Dec 12, 2022 16:04
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No Wave posted:What was it Willard calls Dr Nanjo at the start of the episode again? He singled him out I forget the exact wording. No idea, I must've missed that.
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Dec 12, 2022 16:12
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Rockman Reserve posted:Final thought: Doctor Nanjo just gives zero fucks, huh. At least Kumasawa and Genji are directly employed by Kinzo and are ostensibly trying to do the right thing in an awful situation, at least on some level. I'm not sure what mandatory reporting laws there are in Japan but christ Nanjo, you're a loving doctor, why are you covering any of this poo poo up. Those gold bars won't just launder themselves, y'know. He's gotta pay for his granddaughter's medical bills somehow, obviously.
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Dec 12, 2022 23:02
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Episode 7 drinking game: -take a drink when one of your theories is right -take a drink when one of your theories is wrong -take a drink when you're told to stop thinking, it'll make your headache worse -take a drink whenever anyone says 'we are one yet many' -finish your drink when something terrible is revealed -die of alcohol poisoning
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Dec 12, 2022 23:36
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Cyouni posted:You may wish to reread the ending to 3 with Beato and Ange and think about what it might mean. You mean the part where Beato was obviously stalling her own victory and throwing out hints Battler wasn't catching? Just like she does in episode 4 where she emphasizes Battler's kinship to Rudolf right before grilling him about Asumu.
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Dec 13, 2022 02:29
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jesus christ battler you absolute dumbass
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Dec 13, 2022 03:57
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Here's what I think of episode 6 so far: The cheese riddle isn't merely emblematic of Umineko requiring rules-bending for it's answers, the cheese being folded on itself is analogous to the structure of the Purgatory story. It's not that The RPG comparison I was making the other night was more apt than I thought! The endless board doesn't mean infinitely many distinct games, it means eight games repeated cyclically. (That's been bugging me for a long time.) Beatrice in the question arcs already knew that she would die before Battler would ever understand her--she read it in Featherine's library. Knowing is different from living it out, though. Kind of undermines the surface-level tension in episode 5. Lambda was never threatening Beato's role in her own story, Lambda was performing predetermined actions necessary to motivate Battler into becoming Game Master and creating Beatrice out of the game rules. Then again, this is the first time I've gotten interested in what's going on in Purgatory beyond the logic battles.
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Dec 13, 2022 13:09
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| # ? May 31, 2024 11:51 |
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battler are you kidding me c'mon seriously you impossible infinite fuckup
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Dec 14, 2022 07:03
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