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Tahirovic posted:Is this working as intended: France shouldn't have been able to abandon the play after you added wargoals against them, so something's definitely bugged. Maybe they registered as goals against the subjects, not France?
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Dec 7, 2022 22:22
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Waifu Radia posted:I use the AI mod bc paradox’s dev diaries mainly just discussed things that modders said took them ten minutes lol so I’ve lost faith Do you think game dev is entirely loving around with config files or something? The lengthy part of working on a project like Vicky isn't the amount of time it takes to open Notepad++ and tweak the numbers, it's figuring out how the game currently works, how you think the game should work, and identifying what changes you think you need to make to the game to take it from the first to the second. And then you actually have to test the new version of the game to see if the changes you made had the desired effects, and unless the change is incredibly tiny or you got lucky, you almost certainly did not perfectly nail it blind the first time, so then you have to iterate, and iterate, and iterate. None of that can be done in ten minutes.
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Dec 7, 2022 22:33
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Tulul posted:Do you think game dev is entirely loving around with config files or something? The lengthy part of working on a project like Vicky isn't the amount of time it takes to open Notepad++ and tweak the numbers, it's figuring out how the game currently works, how you think the game should work, and identifying what changes you think you need to make to the game to take it from the first to the second. And then you actually have to test the new version of the game to see if the changes you made had the desired effects, and unless the change is incredibly tiny or you got lucky, you almost certainly did not perfectly nail it blind the first time, so then you have to iterate, and iterate, and iterate. yeah okay except you’re wrong. The dev diaries on oil and rubber availability are super easy to do this for bc all you need to do is figure out your desired availability and oil transition for the late game, and then determine by numbers if players and the AI will consistently hit that. modify for room to spare one way or the other. It’s just math you can figure this out yourself, and then compare to their design that should have existed already. bad news for you is I’ve got industry experience so you can’t just patronize me trying to pretend I’m an idiot. go read the dev diary where they admit they’re not sure if their changes will have the desired effect, indicating either the design is missing or the AI is missing or both.
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Dec 7, 2022 23:30
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Tried the achievement where you produce 100 tanks a week as Finland. My plan was to just leech off the Russian market but there was a significant problem as Russia decided to not mine any coal until 1879. My GDP hovered around 10m (and theirs around 64m) until they finally mined some and our economies began to shoot up. However they've grown increasingly belligerent towards me and are very clearly going to integrate me, and I have no clue how to survive. If I go for an independence war it's Russia, Italy, Greece, Korea, and Egypt vs Finland. Since I'm in a PU I can't do any diplomacy myself or secure any allies. Even if I do get independent my economy is going to immediately crash and I can't support a firearms or munitions industry. Any thoughts? Aside from how ludicrous it is that the AI didn't mine coal until 1879.
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Dec 7, 2022 23:34
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TTBF posted:Tried the achievement where you produce 100 tanks a week as Finland. My plan was to just leech off the Russian market but there was a significant problem as Russia decided to not mine any coal until 1879. My GDP hovered around 10m (and theirs around 64m) until they finally mined some and our economies began to shoot up. However they've grown increasingly belligerent towards me and are very clearly going to integrate me, and I have no clue how to survive. If I go for an independence war it's Russia, Italy, Greece, Korea, and Egypt vs Finland. Since I'm in a PU I can't do any diplomacy myself or secure any allies. Even if I do get independent my economy is going to immediately crash and I can't support a firearms or munitions industry. that's odd. i'm playing vanilla on the new patch and RUS has 80 coal mines in kiev alone on my save at 1873
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Dec 7, 2022 23:38
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Waifu Radia posted:yeah okay except you’re wrong. The dev diaries on oil and rubber availability are super easy to do this for bc all you need to do is figure out your desired availability and oil transition for the late game, and then determine by numbers if players and the AI will consistently hit that. modify for room to spare one way or the other. It’s just math you can figure this out yourself, and then compare to their design that should have existed already. I like their games and staff but I do really have to wonder if there's something vital missing in their game dev pipeline. Like, I get that game dev is hard and sometimes fixing one thing breaks another. But it's the consistency, every single patch on every single game. There's almost always just as much new stuff broken as there is fixed. People joke about QA but there's gotta be something more fundamental there.
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Dec 7, 2022 23:42
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Fuligin posted:that's odd. i'm playing vanilla on the new patch and RUS has 80 coal mines in kiev alone on my save at 1873 Yeah, I can't figure it out. I even switched to some coal production methods to drive up demand and that was in the early 60s. e: Oh no I just checked the market to see where the coal was coming from. Majority of it was trade routes, and the only coal being mined was mined in Italy, which is part of the Russian market. Russia still isn't mining coal in 1888. e: The only mod I currently have installed is one that changes production methods on newly conquered lands into whatever you have for 90%+ of the other factories/whatever of that type. TTBF fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Dec 7, 2022 |
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Dec 7, 2022 23:43
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Waifu Radia posted:yeah okay except you’re wrong. The dev diaries on oil and rubber availability are super easy to do this for bc all you need to do is figure out your desired availability and oil transition for the late game, and then determine by numbers if players and the AI will consistently hit that. modify for room to spare one way or the other. It’s just math you can figure this out yourself, and then compare to their design that should have existed already. If you have industry experience than why do you read "it took ten minutes" as anything but a lame attempt at a dunk? I'm not saying that fixing resources is some impossible task (or that Paradox can't gently caress it up for that matter), just that it is obviously going to take longer for someone working at Paradox to do than someone slapping something up on the Steam workshop, because modders aren't bound by any of the same standards or schedules the actual devs have to pay attention to (and are just cribbing from the dev diary in this case). Plus, the patch came out two days ago, we already know that the Victoria 3 team didn't spend the entire time since release fiddling with oil numbers, that was just one change in the patch, and not the most substantial one.
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Dec 8, 2022 00:38
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Tulul posted:If you have industry experience than why do you read "it took ten minutes" as anything but a lame attempt at a dunk? I'm not saying that fixing resources is some impossible task (or that Paradox can't gently caress it up for that matter), just that it is obviously going to take longer for someone working at Paradox to do than someone slapping something up on the Steam workshop, because modders aren't bound by any of the same standards or schedules the actual devs have to pay attention to (and are just cribbing from the dev diary in this case). yes, it was one of the key features of the patch given way more attention than most others. so I am using their weighting, not my own. not sure of the relevance of the rest of your post. I understand it doesn’t take Paradox ten minutes to decide these things. It is the flippant way they dismiss designing these things that bothers me, and their own admission they don’t know what they want and didn’t know it would be an issue. As the goon above me said, something is clearly missing in their game design pipeline
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Dec 8, 2022 00:44
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https://twitter.com/PDXVictoria/status/1600505425329364999?s=20&t=bXsj47qLQauDL2AiGrBz5w
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Dec 8, 2022 01:04
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I ended up getting Perkeletankki because Russia reversed course and began improving relations instead of deteriorating them. That gave me time to balloon to 7/11 the size of their economy and output 100 tanks a week easy peasy. Does anyone know how to file an official bug report? I figure no coal in Russia by 1910 counts as a bug and I've got a save file for them to poke around in.
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Dec 8, 2022 01:58
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TTBF posted:I ended up getting Perkeletankki because Russia reversed course and began improving relations instead of deteriorating them. That gave me time to balloon to 7/11 the size of their economy and output 100 tanks a week easy peasy. there's a sub on the pdox forums for bug reports as i recall
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Dec 8, 2022 02:16
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Zikan posted:https://twitter.com/PDXVictoria/status/1600505425329364999?s=20&t=bXsj47qLQauDL2AiGrBz5w This is great news! I've been putting off starting a new game until the hotfix and I've itching to play this again.
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Dec 8, 2022 03:01
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It's weird that they put all the information about what wars are costing your country in the window and the AI still does the normal thing where it runs its country completely into the ground for every war no matter what. I'm playing as Kokand and China sent 1.5 million soldiers into the desert and the Himalayas to fight me for a state with 200 thousand people, which I won't be able to end until their war capacity ticks down to -100. Earlier I fought China in another war where Austria joined because of a defensive pact and sent 300,000 soldiers to central Asia to do absolutely nothing except die to attrition because they had zero supply, Austria had a hundred thousand casualties with none of them in battle.
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Dec 8, 2022 03:14
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Am I missing something about Construction Sectors? It is 1839 as Persia. I built two Construction Sectors in Tabriz and in the building menu for Tabriz it shows the two Construction Sectors, using Iron Frame construction, produce 10 Construction Points. But if I hover over the Construction icon on the top right-hand side of my screen, it says I only have 6 Construction Points from Tabriz. Is there a modifier somewhere that I'm missing?
AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Dec 8, 2022 |
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Dec 8, 2022 03:20
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Did you just build one? They do have to staff up first.
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Dec 8, 2022 03:20
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Am I missing something about Construction Sectors? It is 1839 as Persia. I built two Construction Sectors in Tabriz and in the building menu for Tabriz it shows the two Construction Sectors, using Iron Frame construction, produce 10 Construction Points. But if I hover over the Construction icon on the top left-hand side of my screen, it says I only have 6 Construction Points from Tabriz. Is there a modifier somewhere that I'm missing? They require workers and goods to actually make the construction points. You should also have a baseline 5 construction points which require no workers and no resources. Every nation gets this to let them get started.
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Dec 8, 2022 03:22
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Zeron posted:Did you just build one? They do have to staff up first. Nitrousoxide posted:They require workers and goods to actually make the construction points. I've had them for a year or two at least; they were the first thing I built. They are fully staffed and have all the trade goods needed. Like... I am looking at the building itself and it says it produces 10 Construction:  I built another Construction Sector in another state that is also fully staffed and is showing that it produces 5 Construction just like in the above screenshot. Added to the 5 base I think I should have 20, but... 
AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Dec 8, 2022 |
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Dec 8, 2022 03:25
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Just cycle production methods, it gets stuck sometimes
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Dec 8, 2022 03:34
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Yeah reloading the game fixed it, how odd. I'm glad I noticed it before too much time passed...
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Dec 8, 2022 04:29
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I think they should re-add a legitimacy penalty for government size; as it is, at least at the start of the game, cramming every party into your government results in a fairly legitimate government which is funny but weird.
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Dec 8, 2022 10:57
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Staltran posted:France shouldn't have been able to abandon the play after you added wargoals against them, so something's definitely bugged. Maybe they registered as goals against the subjects, not France? I am really not sure what exactly happened there. Like I wrote, France abandoned the play after I added war goals on them and was not part of the war. Then after a long war Siam caved in to enforce war goals on France lol. I found it funny. I was just not sure if it‘s intended as a risk to joining and abandoning plays. In my opinion even if the primary target caves in, it should not just enforce the wargoal on them but the first war goal you add on any allies too. Right now joining other plays is a stupidly easy way to get truces. If you‘re a small country you can protect yourself against some of the bigger nations this way.
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Dec 8, 2022 11:12
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Looks like the hotfix is up:quote:- Fixed a bug where AI breaks off pacts to save Influence even when they're not the ones paying
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Dec 8, 2022 11:18
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At what point does bad poo poo start happening to you when accruing infamy? Are there any hard limits where countries will start declaring war on you out of nowhere or anything?
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Dec 8, 2022 11:24
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I think the Cut Down to Size CB can be used against you when you pass 100 infamy, which other GPs will use liberally against you if they think they can win.
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Dec 8, 2022 11:30
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I want a top-of-screen notification when my infamy hits zero so I know it's safe to invade again.
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Dec 8, 2022 11:55
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This is a wrong approach, you invade when Your Current Infamy + Your Desired CB <= 100 OR you can take them all on. Too hard to make a notification about that.
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Dec 8, 2022 13:09
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Alright, so I shouldn't be sheepish about bulldozing through SE Asia and Japan as Qing unless I care about relations hit (which I don't think I do?). My first attempt was way too passive. You drain infamy pretty quickly it seems, so you should be able to get away with pretty constant warfare. At least, this seems true outside of europe. I guess in Europe you probably have to be more careful about the diplomatic situation.
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Dec 8, 2022 13:14
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Alright, so I shouldn't be sheepish about bulldozing through SE Asia and Japan as Qing unless I care about relations hit (which I don't think I do?). My first attempt was way too passive. You drain infamy pretty quickly it seems, so you should be able to get away with pretty constant warfare. At least, this seems true outside of europe. I guess in Europe you probably have to be more careful about the diplomatic situation. 25 infamy is where you start getting penalties to acceptance of treaties, but you probably don't really care about that (though below 25 infamy you can get some protectorates in SE Asia via bankrolling, as long as they haven't rolled the Defend The Borders strategy). I think infamy also affects how likely countries are to join your opponents in plays, but that shouldn't be a huge problem either. So yes as long as you stay below 100 you should be fine (and honestly as Qing it probably won't take too long before you're strong enough to not really care if Britain or France try to cut you down to size).
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Dec 8, 2022 13:38
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High infamy DOES how likely the AI is to maintain existing treaties or join in on your wars, which can be an issue if you rely on customs union agreements or alliances extensively. This is probably not a major concern for China however.
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Dec 8, 2022 13:58
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As Persia I started importing Grain from China to get grain costs down so my SoL would go up and I wouldnt have to build that many farms. However, I realized that if I built up my own grain farms, I would pull more peasants out of subsistence farming, which in theory would mean they had more money to contribute to the national economy and thus to spend on goods I am producing like clothes, furniture, ect which would increase demand for these things, creating a positive feedback loop where I would employ more people by expanding the factories for those goods. Is that a mostly correct line of thinking for the game or am I off my rocker somewhere? edit: I guess I would un-employ a lot of people at the trade center if I do that, though. AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Dec 8, 2022 |
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Dec 8, 2022 14:05
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Tomn posted:High infamy DOES how likely the AI is to maintain existing treaties or join in on your wars, which can be an issue if you rely on customs union agreements or alliances extensively. This is probably not a major concern for China however. Yeah, this is why I just keep my infamy low, invading whenever it nears zero. I don't necessarily need to always be conquering in order to achieve what I want to achieve in the game, and I'd sooner not have to fight France if I can avoid it, even if I can win. Gort fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Dec 8, 2022 |
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Dec 8, 2022 14:22
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:As Persia I started importing Grain from China to get grain costs down so my SoL would go up and I wouldnt have to build that many farms. However, I realized that if I built up my own grain farms, I would pull more peasants out of subsistence farming, which in theory would mean they had more money to contribute to the national economy and thus to spend on goods I am producing like clothes, furniture, ect which would increase demand for these things, creating a positive feedback loop where I would employ more people by expanding the factories for those goods. Is that a mostly correct line of thinking for the game or am I off my rocker somewhere? You're correct, but the decision point lies around your population: do you have enough to man the factories and mines? If not, you can't spare the bodies to work in the fields, either import the grain or do an imperialism and find a populous colony to do the farming for you while your core focuses on industrialization. The factories will pull the peasants up out of subsistence farming in the same way, with all the same feedback and probably higher wages. Just watch out that 30 years later you're not incredibly vulnerable to trade upset cause whoops you're importing 8k wheat and utterly dependant on it. Farms will also bolster the strength of the landowners and to a lesser degree the church, so that can be counterproductive if you're trying to toss them out of the government and modernize your laws. Arrath fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Dec 8, 2022 |
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Dec 8, 2022 15:20
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Arrath posted:You're correct, but the decision point lies around your population: do you have enough to man the factories and mines? If not, you can't spare the bodies to work in the fields, either import the grain or do an imperialism and find a populous colony to do the farming for you while your core focuses on industrialization.
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Dec 8, 2022 15:49
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Non-incorporated states don't get any political power, so outsourcing all your agriculture to colonies will really tank landowner power. If you don't want to or can't do that, industrialization at home will eventually reduce their share as capitalists and intelligentsia start muscling in, and once there you can chip away at landowner power by passing laws like professional army, professional police, professional bureaucrats etc. Professional army is usually a relatively easy place to start depending on your exact country, the armed forces IG is generally a lot easier to get in government than intelligentsia/industrialists. All this will take a few decades and an intentional government effort to fund intelligentsia and/or capitalists, but such is life. The landowners are basically the early game antagonist, it's gonna take you a couple decades to gently caress them over and that's your project from 1836-1860 or so. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Dec 8, 2022 |
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Dec 8, 2022 15:54
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Awesome, thank you for the information and additional info, because that was part of my concern - I want to work towards ousting the landowners but if I bring anyone but the church into the government it horribly tanks my legitimacy and the landowners have so much clout they'll make passing anything they dont want incredibly hard. Whats the best way to erode their power so I can get the industrialists and/or intelligentsia in the government to start modernizing the laws a bit (which I know can be used to further erode the power of the landowners and the church). The way to erode their influence is by either getting rid of laws that empower the land owners or by building more mines and factories. A lot of countries have poo poo like peasant levees or hereditary bureaucrats that gives them a bonus to clout, getting rid of one will take out a chunk of influence quickly. You might have to bring in another IG and hurt your influence but so long as you can still make progress on the law you can just deal with the penelties. Consider boosting whatever faction you want to help with laws, it can make the differenc. The other has to do with population. Farms produce aristocrats and aristocrats are weighted to join the landowners more often than not. Factories and mines produce capitalists, who are weighted to be industrialists. Build more buildings that employ clerks like art academies or gov admin as they are likely to join the nerd faction. One other thing is that as an autocracy your kings interest group gives a lot of influence outside of clout. For Persia this is the landowners, which sucks. Getting an heir that supports any other IG is big because it means that when they finally take the throne you can banish the landowners to the shadow realm and start surpressing them, which lowers the number of pops that join the.
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Dec 8, 2022 16:00
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slap government wages on very high so that you are paying your bureaucrats a lot, and try to centralize your government administration in the capital early on as long as you don't have tax waste elsewhere to deal with. this will result in the intelligentsia gaining a lot of clout via highly paid capital state pops. military wages on very high can be good too because it strengthens the armed forces, which at least siphons some support from the landowners. otherwise just industrialize and do anything you can to gain more capitalists, bureaucrats, laborers, etc. instead of aristocrats
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Dec 8, 2022 16:02
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Yeah, there are a bunch of steps you can take in the early game to reduce the power landowners and the church have. Usually they're pretty happy with the hell-laws most countries start with, so you can start by firing any generals or admirals that are in their interest group. You can then recruit generals and admirals from other interest groups, or just leave the positions empty until you actually require a general or admiral. Next, you can pass the single law that landowners like that isn't a giant piece of poo poo - dedicated police force. You may need to build some government admin to support it without tanking your taxes, but that's all well and good. You can then rush forward and try and reform the government to include some non-lovely interest groups, or you can wait a while for the landowners and church to calm down about the generals and admirals you fired. Next good targets for reducing landowner power are switching from peasant levies to professionals, going from hereditary to appointed bureaucrats, landed voting, and abolishing serfdom if you have it. Serfdom's a big sticking point, so be very careful about going for that too early or you might end up in a situation where you've abolished serfdom, the landowners and church are going to revolt to reinstate it, and you couldn't get them back into the government to fulfil their demands even if you wanted to because they're too angry.
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Dec 8, 2022 16:03
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If you have really bad starting laws, the Armed Forces are usually a surprisingly good ally. It's very easy to increase their clout and they support a lot of laws that reduce landowner strength, and they get along pretty well with the landowners.
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Dec 8, 2022 16:05
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also the church isn't actually that bad an ig early game, later you'll want to cut them down as you liberalize but they don't start screeching about new taxes and help you get basic education and healthcare set up
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Dec 8, 2022 16:06
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