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Edgar Allen Ho posted:US citizenship laws are just weird as gently caress. Like, my wife still doesn't have a US passport despite spending half her life here. She has never voted for poo poo. Meanwhile But despite Borat's best efforts, I don't think millions are lining up to get the coveted Kazakh passport
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Dec 10, 2022 22:58
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:US citizenship laws are just weird as gently caress. Like, my wife still doesn't have a US passport despite spending half her life here. She has never voted for poo poo. Meanwhile This is how citizenship works in most countries, so I don’t know what’s so amazing about it. Unless you mean you don’t even need to show a birth certificate or *any *documentation beyond someone with a Kazakh passport shows up with a child and says "that is my kid, born abroad" with literally zero supporting evidence? In which case that is kind of bizarrely trust-based way of doing things, but OTOH it’d take about 30 seconds in Adobe Acrobat to fake a birth certificate and buy a random stamp online, neither of which would be even remotely verifiable, so maybe trust based is fine.
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Dec 11, 2022 00:09
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mobby_6kl posted:OTOH, anyone born on US soil, even it it was like in an airport bathroom during a layover, is a citizen. With a big old asterisk for American Samoa. If you're born there, you're a US national but not a US citizen. The reason for this seems to boil down to old-timey racism which has inexplicably lingered to the present day. Hell, the Supreme Court declined to hear a case about it just this year.
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Dec 11, 2022 00:10
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Can't give the subjects living in the colonies full rights. That would go against the spirit of having colonies.
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Dec 11, 2022 02:02
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There's also a whole thing where you can't really vote for president and lack meaningful Federal representation if you live in America's various nonstate territories, but full-on expats can vote in state and federal elections if the last time they lived in the US they lived in a state. It's weird, but as I understand, a fairly common state of affairs for countries with leftover imperial possessions. Powered Descent posted:With a big old asterisk for American Samoa. If you're born there, you're a US national but not a US citizen. The reason for this seems to boil down to old-timey racism which has inexplicably lingered to the present day. Hell, the Supreme Court declined to hear a case about it just this year. While there certainly was racism towards the beginning, that doesn't really make a coherent reason as to why Samoans aren't allowed citizenship but Guamanians are. Last time I heard any details about the situation, I heard that somewhere along the line, there was some complex thing about local laws about land ownership that they were worried American citizenship and US laws would mess with. But the largest obstacle is inertia since there's not very many people in the halls of power who are particularly concerned about little American Samoa. You could also wonder about whether American Samoa should go the other way and kinda soft-secede into the Compact of Free association like some nearby island nations and get to be more of an independent country but still with the freedom of travel throughout the US. Worth a thought, although I can imagine more advantages to citizenship over independence (pseudo-independence?), and it seems likely American Samoans probably do want to be closer to the US instead of further away. Especially from their high enlistment rate.
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Dec 11, 2022 03:15
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Dec 11, 2022 08:01
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global south in tears
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Dec 11, 2022 08:31
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SlothfulCobra posted:There's also a whole thing where you can't really vote for president and lack meaningful Federal representation if you live in America's various nonstate territories, but full-on expats can vote in state and federal elections if the last time they lived in the US they lived in a state.
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Dec 11, 2022 08:44
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Dec 11, 2022 11:10
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In the same vein:  The total was 56.9% for, 43.1% against.
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Dec 11, 2022 11:27
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I'm not super familiar but I'm thinking those are all just population_density.png?
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Dec 11, 2022 15:37
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a pipe smoking dog posted:I'm not super familiar but I'm thinking those are all just population_density.png? Yep.
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Dec 11, 2022 15:45
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Full-on expats? You mean emigrants? Yeah, people who no longer live in America regardless of how long they've been gone.
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Dec 11, 2022 17:36
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SlothfulCobra posted:Yeah, people who no longer live in America regardless of how long they've been gone. That's a weird way to refer to emigrants. Normally expats (at least in my experience of using the word, as an emigrant myself) are people who emigrated for a specific job, who haven't taken citizenship and who probably won't, and who would move back home if they got fired or if their posting ended or whatever. I certainly always referred to myself as an immigrant, after my second year here when I changed jobs and wasn't planning on going home. Also nearly every country allows emigrants to vote if they retain citizenship. Canada is one of the few weird ones that disenfranchises citizens for leaving the country. Often it is a huge pain in the rear end though and you have to go to a consulate or embassy to vote in person. The USA actually makes it exceptionally easy to vote if you live outside the country. E: Also my limited understanding of American Samoa (knowing 2 actually!) and Micronesia is that they prefer being American-lite, because American Samoa gets almost all of the benefits of being American and Micronesia gets a fair number, but they don't have to worry about people from the US coming and stealing their jarrrrbs and buying up land, like Guam. Puerto Rico gets screwed though since they literally only get downsides, but otoh they also have like a lot more downsides if they were independent. Saladman fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Dec 11, 2022 |
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Dec 11, 2022 20:07
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How about a christmassy map. The natural range of the American Chestnut.  So for most Americans, we don't really deal with chestnuts much. Maybe if you're into wood. They have vague festive connotations, but it's not like a common food. That's because the American Chestnut went nearly extinct. It used to be extremely common and popular both for being a great, fast-growing source of wood and a tasty snack, but the population was devastated by a chestnut blight that rode into the country on Japanese Chestnut trees. There are some American Chestnuts left, but very few, not many in their native range. There are some attempts at bringing back American Chestnut species, but not a lot of success so far. These days when people want to eat chestnuts, we get them from trees from Europe and Asia which reportedly don't taste as good. https://www.10best.com/interests/food-culture/how-roasted-chestnuts-became-extinct-christmas-tradition/ https://arboretum.harvard.edu/stories/did-american-chestnut-really-dominate-the-eastern-forest/ https://www.npr.org/local/305/2021/10/18/1047023029/the-american-chestnut-was-wiped-out-a-century-ago-could-it-make-a-comeback
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Dec 12, 2022 17:23
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These maps really bug me. What is this even supposed to be showing? The countries are so distorted they become difficult to identify, let alone compare the actual values their size is supposed to represent.
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Dec 12, 2022 17:36
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Percentage of internet users in 2015: Here's another one with number of users in 2012:  It's pretty sad that coverage is still so bad in Africa, there should be some help there if we want them to prosper, I know it goes against capitalist interests to help out poorer countries and that we'd rather steal their resources at prices that are far too low but still. It seems a bit weird for me sitting here in a country with 90-100% coverage, everything is so connected now and you can't even get a job without a connection. The maps are shamelessly stolen from this wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_Internet_users
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Dec 12, 2022 20:09
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2015 is a long-rear end time ago. nigeria is probably close to 75% now or higher
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Dec 12, 2022 20:32
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Number of users is just pointless though, at least if it's by country. It's not like Dubai m Denmark has less internet than Germany, probably the opposite, but it does have less people.
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Dec 12, 2022 20:38
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i say swears online posted:2015 is a long-rear end time ago. nigeria is probably close to 75% now or higher There's been some changes yes but coverage is still pretty bad in many of these places.
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Dec 12, 2022 20:42
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BonHair posted:Number of users is just pointless though, at least if it's by country. It's not like Dubai m Denmark has less internet than Germany, probably the opposite, but it does have less people. There are loads of important things number of users tells you, particularly if you’re marketing something , but also e.g. that there are 100 million+ internet users in India, China, or the US that might massively weigh discussion on certain subjects far more than all the schmucks in Denmark or Dubai combined could possibly do.
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Dec 12, 2022 20:48
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Kamrat posted:Percentage of internet users in 2015: "still" so bad in 2015? Like... 8 years ago? There have been huge changes in connectivity in the past decade, thanks to 3G/4G networks being rolled out pretty drat close everywhere in the world that didn't exist when they were getting data for that map. I mean it's probably still lower than other regions, but it's gone up a lot, e.g. Kenya now at 42% (up from 20-29%), Ethiopia at 25% (up from 10-19%), Tunisia at 67% (up from 50-59%), Rwanda at 61% (up from 20-29%), Nigeria at 51% (up from 20-29%). Even the poorer and less developed countries have improved a lot, like Mali is now 30% (up from 10-19%), Liberia at 22% (up from 0-9%), etc.
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Dec 12, 2022 20:50
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Saladman posted:"still" so bad in 2015? Like... 8 years ago? There have been huge changes in connectivity in the past decade, thanks to 3G/4G networks being rolled out pretty drat close everywhere in the world that didn't exist when they were getting data for that map. Somalia is in at 1.7%, Eritrea is at 1.8%, Central African Republic is at 3.7% and Chad is at 5.6% according to the linked article, it's still pretty bad let's be honest here, I'm glad that a lot of countries are getting better but still.
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Dec 12, 2022 21:01
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The table in that link is actually more up to date though still not completely current. For example, it lists Nigeria at 64% in 2020 and Mexico at 71% in 2021. Huge strides in many LatAm countries in recent years.
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Dec 12, 2022 21:02
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Kamrat posted:Somalia is in at 1.7%, Eritrea is at 1.8%, Central African Republic is at 3.7% and Chad is at 5.6% according to the linked article, it's still pretty bad let's be honest here, I'm glad that a lot of countries are getting better but still. Yeah, but the problem in Eritrea isn't an issue of money or stability, it's an intentional choice made by the government, like looking at Internet connectivity in North Korea. You're also still citing numbers that are a decade old though... Somalia was estimated to have 1.5-2% connectivity in like 2011. Are you looking at World Bank's numbers? Those are fixed subscriptions, not counting mobile. Current numbers I see are more like 13% for Somalia. Still low and there's a lot of variability in what I'm seeing online from different sources, although not 10-fold. I was pulling the #s for all the countries I reported above (which are 2021 numbers) from https://datareportal.com/reports/digital-2021-somalia and you can look at whatever country there. No idea how reliable it is, but definitely better than the World Bank's obsolete metric.
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Dec 12, 2022 21:14
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Saladman posted:Yeah, but the problem in Eritrea isn't an issue of money or stability, it's an intentional choice made by the government, like looking at Internet connectivity in North Korea. You are correct, I'm sorry, I thought the numbers where more accurate than they where but the article has not updated it's numbers even though it uses the same source as you. I apologize for this, I should have gone directly to the source instead of relying on wikipedia being updated.
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Dec 12, 2022 21:26
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I think some poorer countries jumped straight over dial up and DSL and into smart phones. Because from an infrastructure standpoint it's a lot simpler and cheaper to throw up a few cell towers than to connect miles and miles of landlines. I might be horribly wrong. though.
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Dec 12, 2022 21:45
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Koramei posted:There are loads of important things number of users tells you, particularly if you’re marketing something , but also e.g. that there are 100 million+ internet users in India, China, or the US that might massively weigh discussion on certain subjects far more than all the schmucks in Denmark or Dubai combined could possibly do. Yeah, I think you're right about number of users weighing discussions (despite the regionalised nature of the internet). America is obviously the default for a lot of things in part because there are so many online Americans. I think my point is more that it's pretty pointless to compare to the ratio of people with internet in a country, which tells you something about the country instead of telling you about the world.
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Dec 12, 2022 22:03
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I was just in Senegal and The Gambia and everyone but the poorest rural farmers has smartphones. You'd see people riding around crammed 80s Sprinter vans for $0.3/ride while watching TikTok videos on their iphones. It's a weird feeling. The bandwidth is kind of poo poo especially in eastern Gambia though but still enough for IM or to get the news or whatever.
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Dec 12, 2022 22:11
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FreudianSlippers posted:I think some poorer countries jumped straight over dial up and DSL and into smart phones. Because from an infrastructure standpoint it's a lot simpler and cheaper to throw up a few cell towers than to connect miles and miles of landlines. This is how most of Africa is getting online. And also why I chuckled at a post up thread that bemoaned capitalism's role here. Capitalism has done plenty of harm to Africa but I don't think internet connectivity is an example. Many African states are too ineffective to install large scale infrastructure required for wired internet. It's instead been smaller scale regional companies that have been installing towers, developing software for online banking, setting up charging stations and the like. Transferring money via mobile phone is becoming routine in many parts of the continent even among the very poor, while lots of developed countries lag behind in this area. Not to go full libertarian or anything, but "the market" has come up with pretty good solutions to the problems of poor infrastructure and lack of security.
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Dec 12, 2022 22:18
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Which makes it funny when Chuds complain about refugees having smartphones as if it's some impossible luxury and sure sign that they just left their homeland on a whim to mooch of the system somewhere else and it not being a sign of basically everyone having a smartphone these days.
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Dec 12, 2022 22:23
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FreudianSlippers posted:Which makes it funny when Chuds complain about refugees having smartphones as if it's some impossible luxury and sure sign that they just left their homeland on a whim to mooch of the system somewhere else and it not being a sign of basically everyone having a smartphone these days. Or homeless people having cell phones. Cell phones haven't been a luxury, in what, a generation? They've been a necessity for years to do basic tasks.
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Dec 12, 2022 23:08
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it's all by data usage and not subscriptions too, so if you basically only use it for whatsapp, upkeep is like $5/month i had a laptop with a usb thumbdrive thing that accepted a sim card. i'd go hand a guy on the street in a branded polo shirt some cash and get a scratchoff ticket with a code that topped off my gigs
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Dec 12, 2022 23:10
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When people actually directly research what things poor people end up going without when they can't afford much, there's a lot of surprises to people's expectations. I think a lot of people expect that the poors would be living in conditions like it was 50 years ago. The idea that some expensive things have become cheap or have become important enough that it's worth the cost is hard to process.Count Roland posted:And also why I chuckled at a post up thread that bemoaned capitalism's role here. Capitalism has done plenty of harm to Africa but I don't think internet connectivity is an example. Many African states are too ineffective to install large scale infrastructure required for wired internet. Aside from the flaws with African governments or lack of funds, I think a lot of African countries just have terrain that would be pretty hard to build across. Either a lot of rough features or a lot of big areas without many people that are impractical to run connections across. And that lack of infrastructure is also why one of the first practical drone delivery services developed in Africa. https://twitter.com/geographynow/status/1306151254356234240 Most drone delivery proposals over here in the US are just gimmicks, but if you don't have good roads and can't store important supplies at all the sites you need to, that's a situation where it's an actual solution to a problem. And it's a glider that is actually trying to be energy-efficient as opposed to a quadcopter. Count Roland posted:These maps really bug me. What is this even supposed to be showing? The countries are so distorted they become difficult to identify, let alone compare the actual values their size is supposed to represent. You can't recognize Portugal because it's put on some weight? Rude.
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Dec 12, 2022 23:33
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Count Roland posted:And also why I chuckled at a post up thread that bemoaned capitalism's role here. Capitalism has done plenty of harm to Africa but I don't think internet connectivity is an example. Many African states are too ineffective to install large scale infrastructure required for wired internet.
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Dec 13, 2022 06:38
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America has plenty of rugged, sparsely-populated terrain between its population centers. I wonder why its internet connectivity is so much better than that in, say, West Africa. I bet it has something to do with the ineffectiveness of African states. The ineffectiveness of African states probably has nothing to do with anything.
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Dec 13, 2022 09:33
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^^^^^^ Internet connectivity in the countryside of the USA is terrible btw, and exactly like much of Africa, was saved by 4G. My uncle lives like 50 miles outside Chicago and they only got usable Internet in like 2016 when a 4G transmitter went up nearby. A Buttery Pastry posted:An ineffective state can easily be a symptom of capitalism though. Sure, in like DR Congo that's definitely a huge factor. It's not at all a factor with Eritrea, and not really a key factor for Somalia. Different brushes for different strokes. Chuds who blame absolutely everything on capitalism doesn't make any more sense than chuds who say say that the only possible outcome of socialist policies is to become Venezuela.
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Dec 13, 2022 12:27
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Saladman posted:Sure, in like DR Congo that's definitely a huge factor. It's not at all a factor with Eritrea, and not really a key factor for Somalia. Different brushes for different strokes. Chuds who blame absolutely everything on capitalism doesn't make any more sense than chuds who say say that the only possible outcome of socialist policies is to become Venezuela. Finally, I'm gonna come right out and say that your use of chud here appears to give the game away. That is, in lieu of positioning yourself as the rational centrist, you're contrasting your position with the irrational positions of chuds - left or right wing - and thus solidifying your own as the rational compromise view. Whether that is your intent, it is certainly the message I received.
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Dec 13, 2022 12:52
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I'm pretty sure that he was coming from the left. We pretty consistently use chud to mean rightwing
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Dec 13, 2022 13:03
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Methods of service provisioning are also going to change as a factor of where people are living (even if yes those are governed by material factors of history). Istanbul, as they probably said in Byzantine Greek. 
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