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zedprime posted:I think I'm going to start a trilogy run soon and am interested in Ranger or Druid as classes I haven't bothered with previously. Assuming vanilla EE +- tweak mods at most are there any standout kits, multis, or duals? Any interesting combos of gear in any given game or HLA combos to be aware of? Playing an Archer through BG1 even once is a fun experience that I'd recommend. In a game where ranged weapons are king, welp! They're good in BG2, too, and the only other dedicated ranged vanilla character is Mazzy I guess? I'll second Bike Tory's suggestion about a berserker dual classed to generic druid for a full trilogy run. That character is powerful all the way through (except for the slump during the dualing process, but thanks to the quirky druid XP table, it's not even that long!), although you'll have to sacrifice one of the fighter stats to be able to roll a dualable character. Out of the druid kits, I want to think an Avenger might be interesting in BG2 since they actually get somewhat useful spells for low levels (just watch out for that window where Chromatic  stones!), but despite a couple efforts I haven't made it past Spellhold with one.
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Dec 10, 2022 07:34
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Basic Chunnel posted:Beamdog content is better than most of the core content For me to poop on.
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Dec 10, 2022 09:30
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JustJeff88 posted:Is there a Monk rebalancing mod anywhere? The one for shapeshifts seems to work well enough. I know that there's a mod for the haste-immune 'bug', but I can't remember which. Iron Skins, Summon Insects (aka "Oh God not the Bees, not the Bees") and eventually Nature's Beauty are so great
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Dec 10, 2022 09:32
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Pre-nerf Ranger/Cleric multi is the best way to get Druid spells going
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Dec 10, 2022 10:46
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You just have to change one line in a lua to undo the Ranger/Cleric nerf, but it's weirdly hard to find which line through simple google searches. Every time I think to do it it takes me a long time to figure out what the exact file is and the specific line.
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Dec 10, 2022 10:54
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As somebody who did a trilogy run with a monk... You are correct that there are better, more powerful characters. But none of them let you loving punch holes in Gods. So you may have beaten Firkraag in a more effective way. True. But none of you beat that loving rear end in a top hat to death with your bare hands. For that I will always love monk.
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Dec 10, 2022 11:28
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When I was younger I remember reading so many posts on forums about how great monks were in BG. It's interesting how peoples' understanding of system mechanics evolves over time / with age.
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Dec 10, 2022 13:24
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H13 posted:As somebody who did a trilogy run with a monk... Never stop punching and never stop kicking, Gamer and Goon! 'Tis the path of true enlightenment... or so it is said... 🧘
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Dec 10, 2022 15:21
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I was a young teenager when the Baldur's Gate games came out. I had come into the genre from Quest for Glory, which I loved and still love. Suffice it to say Baldur's Gate is a lot more complicated. I played through the games making aggressive use of cheats at the time. Several years later I came back and played the game through legitimately several times and had a blast. I'm not sure if my experience with the interface at least, made, a difference. I think the BG games are rightly regarded as all-time greats, but there are some things I don't love about them. They're roughly contemporaries of the first two Fallout games, which I was also getting into at the time. Fallout did a lot of stuff that moved the genre forward where BG seemed to stagnate, mainly in defining your character outside their combat story, having a more reactive storyline, and having multiple quest solutions and outcomes. Black Isle's Infinity Engine game carried this through more. This was kind of what Planescape:Torment is all about, and even though Icewind Dale is pretty much a linear dungeon crawler, it had a lot more in terms of skill checks in dialogs and reactions based on things like player's race and class. With all that said, I'd like to play through BG2 for the first time again in about a decade. Are there any good content mods floating about? I always hear about the cringy/terrible ones, but I'd like to see if there's anything worthwhile.
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Dec 10, 2022 16:39
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Skwirl posted:Iron Skins, Summon Insects (aka "Oh God not the Bees, not the Bees") and eventually Nature's Beauty are so great That's why I put up with them. Druids aren't that good, but they have a few specific spells that are truly great. I take Jaheira because she's the least bad of a bad bunch. I can't imagine bothering with a pure druid. A druid/rogue would be a great MC, if they existed. sebzilla posted:Pre-nerf Ranger/Cleric multi is the best way to get Druid spells going Agreed. I consider that 'bug' to be compensation for rangers and druids being mostly 'meh' Skwirl posted:You just have to change one line in a lua to undo the Ranger/Cleric nerf, but it's weirdly hard to find which line through simple google searches. Every time I think to do it it takes me a long time to figure out what the exact file is and the specific line. It is fixed but you can edit Baldurs.lua file in your Documents\Baldurs Gate II Enchanted Edition folder. It should have a line that should look like this to ENABLE druid spell level that are tied to your cleric level. SetPrivateProfileString('Game Options','Cleric Ranger Spells','0') Is this correct?
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Dec 10, 2022 18:33
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Yeah, you want it 0 it defaults to 1 I believe.
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Dec 10, 2022 20:26
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prometheusbound2 posted:I was a young teenager when the Baldur's Gate games came out. I had come into the genre from Quest for Glory, which I loved and still love. Suffice it to say Baldur's Gate is a lot more complicated. I played through the games making aggressive use of cheats at the time. Several years later I came back and played the game through legitimately several times and had a blast. I'm not sure if my experience with the interface at least, made, a difference. I’d recommend Unfinished Business and whatever components you like from Tweaks Anthology if you’re just looking to mix it up after a decade away. This thread can probably recommend some decent npc companions but it isn’t necessary. There are content mods that add new areas and poo poo but most of them are way overtuned/unbalanced because they were made by folks who played BG1 a ton and wanted higher difficulty. E: looking at CRPGs as a whole, I think Baldur’s Gate 2 is kind of a crossroads in time and playstyle. Fallout 2 and Planescape took a turn towards reactivity and narrative, while the “do X tasks” and chat/romance party members kinda became a new genre. Fruits of the sea fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Dec 10, 2022 |
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Dec 10, 2022 23:29
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JustJeff88 posted:
Rangers are meh?
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Dec 11, 2022 04:22
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rojay posted:Rangers are meh? Rangers don't get 4th or 5th level spells so they don't get stuff like Insect Plague or Iron Skin, and they have to wear light armor to stealth, so basically they are inferior to Paladins which get all the cool low level cleric buffs. Also the Paladin kits are all really good, the Ranger kits range from really good until TOB (Archer) to meh (Beastmaster). Rangers aren't bad, but to get the most out of them you have to make a lot of tradeoffs that Fighters and Paladins don't.
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Dec 11, 2022 04:43
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rojay posted:Rangers are meh? In my opinion, non-Archer ones are, yes.
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Dec 11, 2022 17:37
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JustJeff88 posted:In my opinion, non-Archer ones are, yes. And the Archer is not as good at archery as a fighter is at higher levels
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Dec 11, 2022 19:02
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rocketrobot posted:And the Archer is not as good at archery as a fighter is at higher levels A level 18 archer is going to have +4 to hit and +3 damage over the same level fighter with grand mastery, which is going to add up to more than the extra 1/2 APR that the fighter gets.
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Dec 11, 2022 19:26
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How is a fighter eventually better at archery than an archer? Archers can reach grand mastery in short bows, long bows and crossbows too. I think if I ever roll an archer again, I'll go with crossbows. There are so many magical bolts to loot and no "natural" primary crossbow users among the usual NPC crews. Main weapon would be the light crossbow of speed for the +1 APR and in ToB that bolt-generating crossbow you can upgrade to hit as +5 whenever +2 or +3 isn't sufficient.
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Dec 11, 2022 21:39
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Suspicious posted:How is a fighter eventually better at archery than an archer? Archers can reach grand mastery in short bows, long bows and crossbows too. oh wait they can? Then yeah Archer is better in every single way
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Dec 11, 2022 21:53
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Archers are limited to leather armour, class ruined.
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Dec 11, 2022 21:55
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Ratios and Tendency posted:Archers are limited to leather armour, class ruined. If rangers could be evil and thus wear the human leather it might be okay.
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Dec 11, 2022 21:58
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Suspicious posted:How is a fighter eventually better at archery than an archer? Archers can reach grand mastery in short bows, long bows and crossbows too. Iirc weapons with special ammunition also have weird interaction where if you equip special ammunition in it it uses the damage value of the weapon's innate ammunition *and* the damage value of the ammunition equipped. So for example if you take Firetooth (1d8 +5 +2) and put in some Kuo Tuoan bolts (2d6) you'll do 1d8 +5 +2 + 2d6 damage. I don't know if this was intended or not but fairly certain that's the way it works. Needless to say this makes an Archer with Firetooth a real terror. Perhaps more ridiculous still is the fact that you can buy Firetooth +4 immediately out of Irenicus' dungeon. Because of this interaction, Crossbow users are actually quite devastating despite the lower APR.
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Dec 11, 2022 22:49
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Yeah but it only hits as its ammunition's enchantment level, doesn't it? So you have to remove your bolts to hit as +4/+5. Anyway, aware of the exploit but I'd expect this to have been fixed in the EE a long time ago.
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Dec 11, 2022 23:05
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Suspicious posted:Yeah but it only hits as its ammunition's enchantment level, doesn't it? So you have to remove your bolts to hit as +4/+5. I don't think it's been fixed whether by EE or fixpack stuff, but I could be wrong. iirc the tooltip won't show the actual damage values correctly but if you equip ammo with one of those weapons and hit you should see the damage values line up with what I'm saying. You are correct about the ammo value still mattering, so the damage increase on the ammo is less useful against enemies that require +4/+5 to hit.
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Dec 11, 2022 23:06
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Suspicious posted:How is a fighter eventually better at archery than an archer? Archers can reach grand mastery in short bows, long bows and crossbows too. You raise a point that I've often thought about. There is virtually no reason to use crossbows. Characters use a longbow if possible, shortbow if not, sling if no other option. There are so many good crossbows and so little reason to use them. I'd love to hear reasons to do so - it's a drat shame.
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Dec 11, 2022 23:28
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It's usually the extra APR short/long bows get. The light crossbow of speed evens this up, but it's expensive.
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Dec 11, 2022 23:37
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I think a component of rogue rebalancing (maybe? idk, some mod) adds the extra APR to crossbows that bows get by default
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Dec 11, 2022 23:38
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IIRC there are some nifty bolts that don't have an arrow equivalent.
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Dec 12, 2022 00:29
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JustJeff88 posted:You raise a point that I've often thought about. There is virtually no reason to use crossbows. Characters use a longbow if possible, shortbow if not, sling if no other option. There are so many good crossbows and so little reason to use them. I'd love to hear reasons to do so - it's a drat shame. The main reason would be the interaction I mentioned that Firetooth has. And as Sebzilla mentioned there are some unique bolts that arrows don't replicate. Kuo Tuoan bolts (2d6) I think hit harder than any arrow. Some bolts can stun which iirc no arrow can do.
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Dec 12, 2022 00:44
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bolts of lightning are the best value/damage of any ammo* *I'm too lazy to calculate it but I've been working under this assumption forever
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Dec 12, 2022 03:46
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Ratios and Tendency posted:Archers are limited to leather armour, class ruined. Hopefully this isn't just my mod load-out speaking, but archers can wear ankheg plate if you're really keen on having them suited up. Suspicious posted:It's usually the extra APR short/long bows get. The light crossbow of speed evens this up, but it's expensive. You can steal from Bernard, so this technically isn't an obstacle, but you're swimming in gold most of the game anyway.
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Dec 12, 2022 05:32
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I don't remember bolts of detonation or dispelling, but I could very well be wrong. Edit to say: the best money you'll spend in early BG2 is on potions that pump your pickpocket stat through the roof so that you can get a "discount" right after the intro dungeon. Though at this point I just use the console to avoid the hassle. See also, giving myself gold at the start of BG1 so that I don't have to loot every kobold. rojay fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Dec 13, 2022 |
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Dec 13, 2022 05:53
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rojay posted:I don't remember bolts of detonation or dispelling, but I could very well be wrong. I drink all the potions steal a few things and sell them back then say okay I did it legit then open the console and give myself a few million gold. Doing the repetitive steal / sell motions hurts my arm. It comes out to the same thing in the end as sitting there for 30 minutes in pain stealing it all.
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Dec 13, 2022 12:11
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When using Minsc in a party is there anyone that doesn't just load him up in plate armour with a two-handed sword (or dual wield) and let him go to town? Feels like a dumb question but "Ranger" always felt like a wasted class on a character like Minsc. A straight-up berserker or barbarian maybe but I don't feel like the games ever reflected his identity as a ranger very well.
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Dec 13, 2022 14:34
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DeadButDelicious posted:When using Minsc in a party is there anyone that doesn't just load him up in plate armour with a two-handed sword (or dual wield) and let him go to town? Feels like a dumb question but "Ranger" always felt like a wasted class on a character like Minsc. A straight-up berserker or barbarian maybe but I don't feel like the games ever reflected his identity as a ranger very well. I honestly barely ever played him another way.
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Dec 13, 2022 14:41
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Vichan posted:I honestly barely ever played him another way. I'm reading through your Sandrah Saga LP and saw how your Minsc is kitted out when you have him and it got me thinking "yeah I've never differed from playing him like that - wonder if anyone else does?" If there's one thing I've learnt about BG it's that every year when I come back to it I learn something new that I overlooked as a dumb kid. Once again thank you for your suffering in the name of entertaining us with that LP. What a godawful mod. 
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Dec 13, 2022 14:50
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In bg1 I hand him a composite bow and let others tank. Mechanically he's kinda bad, and the slower ranger leveling makes it worse without any benefits. But I usually take him anyway.
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Dec 13, 2022 14:54
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DeadButDelicious posted:When using Minsc in a party is there anyone that doesn't just load him up in plate armour with a two-handed sword (or dual wield) and let him go to town? Feels like a dumb question but "Ranger" always felt like a wasted class on a character like Minsc. A straight-up berserker or barbarian maybe but I don't feel like the games ever reflected his identity as a ranger very well. I just change him to Barbarian with Level One NPCs.
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Dec 13, 2022 14:57
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I never use Minsc's rage because I don't want him attacking a party member or a bystander.
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Dec 13, 2022 15:20
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Does anyone have any suggestions for Ironman thread titles? I'll be making the thread on Monday, so there's still a few days to go. And I never use Minsc because he can't use wands, so he's rubbish. 
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Dec 13, 2022 15:38
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