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honda whisperer posted:If you want to billet small production you use a 5 axis machine. That would make that head a 2 setup job. Peering down the rabbit hole further, I'm not even a Chevy guy, but, if I had a STEP file for a billet LS1 head ready to go and wanted to do like, 20 of these for Hadlock's Super LS1 Billet "Headlock" Heads™ to sell commercially, what would that cost me out the door And yeah I do some 3D printing at home I know the complexity and what's in the step file has huge impact on machine time, tool swaps etc, just looking for a very broad ballpark figure
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Dec 14, 2022 03:14
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SkunkDuster posted:How much uptime on a CNC mill is practical for a 24/7 shop? I used to work in a print shop (as in printing things on paper) and I heard once expected average uptime of the equipment was about 66%. We've got horizontal cold forming machines with 4' foundations, what's underneath the 12 stage progressive die press I can only imagine but you can feel it stroke while standing in the parking lot. Anyway can't speak to the job shop market but our OEE standard in automotive parts with infrequent changeovers is 80%
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Dec 14, 2022 03:16
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SkunkDuster posted:How much uptime on a CNC mill is practical for a 24/7 shop? I used to work in a print shop (as in printing things on paper) and I heard once expected average uptime of the equipment was about 66%. Uptime is a slippery term. Actual production time, not counting setups? Spindle time is another way to look at it. We have a long term job with one tool only, we get 115 pcs per insert corner, then they rotate, so the only downtime is the 2 seconds to load, and the 60-90 seconds every 115 parts. Cycle time is 30 seconds. Multiply out over the 115 pcs, you get a pretty high up time. A friend does maintenance at a production shop down the road and says they get 85% for the Haas's and 90% plus for poo poo like Makino's or Okuma. We have mostly grinders and our uptime is also 95% plus. If it was worse I'd claw my loving eyes out as we have like 17 grinders total. If I had 66% uptime, it means I'm working on 1/3 of the equipment all the time and that would just be unsustainable. I have little experience with EDM, but some of our grinders are on isolated concrete pads. That Devlieg was also isolated and on like 6' of concrete.
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Dec 14, 2022 03:31
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SkunkDuster posted:
Probably depends on how thick the floor slab is, what type of concrete was used, how much/how big the rebar is (or isn't) and whats underneath already. I do geotechnical drilling. A lot of it inside and this is something we do on the regular. Keep in mind, I'm not an engineer so I don't really know much about what they do to analyze the samples beyond (again depending on requirements of a particular job) looking for things like moisture content, and sieve tests to figure out %s of various dirt particles, like how much is classified as silt, clay, fine sand, coarse sand, gravel etc... Typically we'll core a hole(s) in the floor, using something like a hole saw. If they want it, the engineers will keep that concrete core to do some tests on it. Then we drill a hole(s) in the ground underneath the floor, take some soil samples and depending on what we find, possibly do some other tests on the soil (shear vane maybe) and possibly leave a small piece of pipe down there to check water levels. Depths vary, I've done 40+ feet for a new line at a beer factory, and a month or so ago did a 20 footer for some giant vibrator that will be used for wesleywillis fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Dec 14, 2022 |
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Dec 14, 2022 03:38
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Hadlock posted:Peering down the rabbit hole further, I'm not sure, I'm not on the quoting end. I do know our shop rate is $70 per hour for most stuff and $90 per on the 5th axis. This is per employee hour so sort stock, program, setup, machine all combined X $70. 20 would be enough you'd start getting some economy for multiples though. Wild rear end guess maybe 1k per head at the low end. My shops a bad example though, we specialize in making 1 or 2 parts at a time. If you wanted a pair of mirrored heads to test it would be maybe 3-5k each. Doing the pair, if they worked, we could come back with a very accurate quote for every 5, 10, 50, 100 whatever quantity dropping the price the more you want. The more you want though the more likely someone else will undercut us enough to jump to them.
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Dec 14, 2022 03:53
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Yooper posted:If I had 66% uptime, it means I'm working on 1/3 of the equipment all the time and that would just be unsustainable. I suppose it is a different industry. That's why I was curious about it. We'd have jobs that could run 3-4 hours pushing 20-30K sheets of paper per hour with 100% uptime, then 15-20 jobs a day that would take 5-6 minutes setup for a 30 second run. Those little jobs bring bring down the averages. Running sheets of paper through a machine at high speeds is a delicate process. If humidity is up a couple percent, or if the reams of paper were cut from the middle of the roll at the manufacturer, it will introduce enough curl to cause the machines to jam every 30 seconds and take about 30 seconds to clear the jams and get it up and running. Jobs like that are what made me want to claw my eyes out. wesleywillis posted:Probably depends on how thick the floor slab is, what type of concrete was used, how much/how big the rebar is (or isn't) and whats underneath already. Would the climate also factor in? As in if the install was in a place with freeze/thaw cycles?
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Dec 14, 2022 04:05
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SkunkDuster posted:How much uptime on a CNC mill is practical for a 24/7 shop? I used to work in a print shop (as in printing things on paper) and I heard once expected average uptime of the equipment was about 66%. My shop (job shop so one offs) we'd be crushing it at 66% uptime. Not a 24/7 shop though. New job maybe 2/3rds programming and setup to 1/3rd running the parts. Varies wildly though. On part 2 I do know our building has two slabs that separate the mills and lathes from the jig grinders and wire and inspection. Also our 3 axis stuff just sits on the floor but the 5 axis machines were bolted into it. Our floors were just thick enough to be ok and they're small 5 axis machines. Go really big and custom floor is a known staring point.
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Dec 14, 2022 04:13
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SkunkDuster posted:
Possibly in an extreme situation, like way the gently caress in the north. Or in an open warehouse or something. We do that from time to time, maybe its just a big conveyor line in a "building" thats just a roof and open walls. Inside a climate controlled building I don't think there'd be anything like a frost line under the floor. Fake edit: *maybe* at the outer edges of the building?
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Dec 14, 2022 04:15
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Ok that was a deep rabbit hole. I guess I need to eBay impulse buy a Shizuoka milling machine, and I guess upgrade my shedhonda whisperer posted:
Cool thanks sir. That's... Less than half of what I imagined, so very cool
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Dec 14, 2022 08:07
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SkunkDuster posted:How much uptime on a CNC mill is practical for a 24/7 shop? I used to work in a print shop (as in printing things on paper) and I heard once expected average uptime of the equipment was about 66%. The average Dutch job shop gets 25-40 hours of spindle time per machine a week, typically depending on the sort of shop they are. The few that focus entirely on large volume orders get ~100 hours a week on average. As for that LS1 head, it's something my company could make, and I suspect it'd cost you 4-5k to get one made for you.
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Dec 14, 2022 10:30
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Couldn't you get in trouble with patents duplicating car parts?
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Dec 14, 2022 14:06
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That's an interesting question, maybe the lawyer thread will have an answer. My personal guess is that the machine shop that makes the part is in the clear as long as the customer that provided the drawing/cad file didn't mention that they're infringing on patents. It's not our job to look out for that kind of thing, after all.
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Dec 14, 2022 15:31
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Rutibex posted:Couldn't you get in trouble with patents duplicating car parts? I'm not sure on how the legality works but so many companies make aftermarket parts there's got to be an opening somewhere.
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Dec 14, 2022 15:40
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honda whisperer posted:I'm not sure on how the legality works but so many companies make aftermarket parts there's got to be an opening somewhere. I'm not aware of anyone besides John Deere who will do anything about aftermarket parts. Ever. Aftermarket is a very major business and there are absolutely folks like Federal Mogul (DRiV) or Mahle that both make parts for the OEM's and operate a totally separate aftermarket division making the exact same parts. Companies like Dorman will get so detailed as to copy digital components or boards. The Right to Repair is a very hot topic not just for consumer electronics but vehicles as well. I do work for both sides of the aisle and I'm not aware of anyone who has ever thrown down a C&D on aftermarket for making a part. fake edit : Here's a good article about a small shop who makes Nissan engines on a Haas machining center for the aftermarket racing industry : https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2017/03/making-plunge-cnc/ Literally a 400 lb block of aluminum going in, and a complete Nissan engine coming out. When we talked in 2017 or so he was selling them for like $16k a piece. He said the Nissan race guys come in, pay the money, and don't even bat an eye. Yooper fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Dec 14, 2022 |
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Dec 14, 2022 15:50
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On the absolute opposite of the OEE spectrum: I work in the R&D machine shop of a medical device manufacturer and we make prototypes, fixtures for testing prototypes, and replacement parts for the assembly line (replacement grippers and things like that). We have 4 cnc mills, a cnc lathe, and a variety of manual machines, and I don’t think that all 5 cnc’s have ever been powered on in the same day, let alone in use.
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Dec 14, 2022 18:15
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Welp, so far my luck isn't great. The straight-flute drill bit worked pretty well but broke after a few holes, which isn't a huge surprise. The plastic drill bit has a neutral rake and didn't grab, but it also doesn't seem to form decent chips and is just stirring a tapered hole into the copper tube. I ended up just rough-sanding a neutral rake tip onto a garden variety 1/4" drill bit and made fresh soft Jaws to hold my work in a drill press. With this setup, I can at least get clean enough holes 80% of the time. Every sensible bit of prep (center punch, pilot + step drill) gives me a lower yield. *shrug*
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Dec 15, 2022 00:31
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What about a self drilling screw to make a pilot hole?
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Dec 15, 2022 01:00
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wesleywillis posted:What about a self drilling screw to make a pilot hole? If the current method doesn't pan out, I'll look into it. The biggest challenge is drilling these holes without warping the tube in the process. This annealed copper is such a bear to work with. E: I got a few small sharpening stones and some cheap drill bits to try this out with, and some of them are split point. I have a feeling those will be the ones that carry the day. Vvvv
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Dec 15, 2022 01:49
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try a split point
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Dec 15, 2022 01:49
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Is it possible to shove some sacrificial material inside. Copper would be ideal but a wood dowel rod would probably work just as well.
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Dec 15, 2022 03:03
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honda whisperer posted:Is it possible to shove some sacrificial material inside. Copper would be ideal but a wood dowel rod would probably work just as well. I thought about this, but this is for refrigeration handling, so it has to be torch-brazed and I can't have any char or small particles of anything inside. Whatever goes inside has to come back out in its entirety. Anything stiff enough to do the job, I probably wouldn't be able to get back out once the drill rips it apart. If I had my way, i'd have just made a combination tube bending & drilling jig for each of these parts out of thick BB plywood and just called it a day. My boss is pretty experienced with all flavors of one-off fabrication (he used to build exhibits at a really wild museum) but he's very much for the quick-and-dirty solution, and I have a hard time convincing him to greenlight stuff where I'm gonna be spending a bunch of time building jigs to make what are ostensibly simple parts. I might end up just doing this anyways, since we have to make a bunch more of these tubing assemblies down the line.
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Dec 15, 2022 03:40
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HolHorsejob posted:I thought about this, but this is for refrigeration handling, so it has to be torch-brazed and I can't have any char or small particles of anything inside. Whatever goes inside has to come back out in its entirety. Anything stiff enough to do the job, I probably wouldn't be able to get back out once the drill rips it apart. What about using an ultra low melting point alloy? McMaster and Amazon both sell bars of the stuff. Melt it out in boiling water.
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Dec 15, 2022 03:47
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DC to Daylight posted:What about using an ultra low melting point alloy? McMaster and Amazon both sell bars of the stuff. Melt it out in boiling water. Or ice - I think instrument makers use it to stop tube collapsing when they bend it.
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Dec 15, 2022 16:25
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Anyone using a manufacturing ERP that they like?
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Dec 15, 2022 16:40
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Yooper posted:Anyone using a manufacturing ERP that they like? As far as I can tell nobody actually likes their ERP. JobBoss is one of the bigger manufacturing based ones I think.
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Dec 15, 2022 17:23
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Vindolanda posted:Or ice - I think instrument makers use it to stop tube collapsing when they bend it. That reminds me. I saw an awesome video years ago of a guy making a trumpet. To make sure the tubing was uniform diameter and exceptionally smooth on the ID after bending, he forced a series of steel ball bearings through it. Ball goes in the tube, rare earth magnet on the outside to pull it along. He did like four or five balls in a row - I bet they were each like half a mill larger than the previous one.
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Dec 15, 2022 18:02
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DC to Daylight posted:That reminds me. I saw an awesome video years ago of a guy making a trumpet. To make sure the tubing was uniform diameter and exceptionally smooth on the ID after bending, he forced a series of steel ball bearings through it. Ball goes in the tube, rare earth magnet on the outside to pull it along. He did like four or five balls in a row - I bet they were each like half a mill larger than the previous one. IIRC someone in this thread used to do that
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Dec 15, 2022 18:05
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that's called swaging and it's a pretty common industrial process, but i am just amazed at how strong the magnet must have been to do that. normally it requires a mandrel or hydraulic pressure or the like.
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Dec 15, 2022 18:23
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A Proper Uppercut posted:As far as I can tell nobody actually likes their ERP. JobBoss is one of the bigger manufacturing based ones I think. I've heard the name, never used it. I get the same vibe, everyone mildly dislikes the ERP they have, regardless who makes it.
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Dec 15, 2022 18:33
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Sagebrush posted:that's called swaging and it's a pretty common industrial process, but i am just amazed at how strong the magnet must have been to do that. normally it requires a mandrel or hydraulic pressure or the like. I think I saw on How Its Made, they just shoved a whole bunch of balls through the horn, or trombone or whatever. It was a continuous stream of balls until they just came out on their own.
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Dec 15, 2022 21:00
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shame on an IGA posted:IIRC someone in this thread used to do that Yea, Brekelefuw made trumpets I think. I only remember because I made some makers mark punches for them like 10 years ago.
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Dec 15, 2022 21:39
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I've got a bolt that I'm pretty sure is 5/8" 13. Except thats a weird size. Typically its 5/8-11 or 5/8-18 A quick google for 5/8"-13 suggests that such a size does infact exist but its not very common. One interesting fact is that everything on this thing seems to be metric. Except for these four nuts and bolts that are some weird size? Is there a metric size that is more or less the equivalent of 5/8-13? That same google session suggests that it *might be* m16-2.0 but the thread pitch gauges that I have only go up to 1.75 in metric. Is a 2.0 metric thread pitch an exact match for 13tpi? The 13 tpi pitch gauge that I have matches up pretty much right on to these threads, and I used digital calipers to confirm that the diameter was slightly under 5/8". I did round up to 5/8 because the actual measurement was something like 69/128" or something along those lines and 5/8" was the next 2-4-8-16" number on the caliper. wesleywillis fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Dec 16, 2022 |
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Dec 16, 2022 20:26
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wesleywillis posted:I've got a bolt that I'm pretty sure is 5/8" 13. 25.6 mm/in = 12.8 TPI yeah it'd be real close
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Dec 16, 2022 20:38
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2mm is a coarse enough pitch that you can probably just measure ten threads with a ruler and verify that it's 20mm. Also I know offhand that 5/16 is almost exactly the same diameter as 8mm (it's 0.003" off, less than 1% different) so yeah 5/8 being almost exactly 16mm checks out too. Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Dec 16, 2022 |
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Dec 16, 2022 21:14
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wesleywillis posted:I think I saw on How Its Made, they just shoved a whole bunch of balls through the horn, or trombone or whatever. Imagine infinite balls on the edge of a trumpet.
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Dec 16, 2022 22:45
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My charts suggests it is M16x2. It is formatted bold suggesting it is a common size. Says 0.6299 major diameter. I think you can use every other valley of a 1.0mm pitch gauge if you have it.
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Dec 17, 2022 01:03
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^^^^ drat! I never even thought of that! Thanks for the replies, I'm sure you're all right and it's a metric thread. My initial thoughts were that it was 5/8" 11 because it looked just a bit bigger than a half inch but when I checked it with the tpg it was slightly off. Then when it *looked* like it was 13tpi I was all like what the poo poo!?;?!? A 5/8-13 tap was available at several places but it just sounded weird. I need to stop overthinking poo poo, especially when everything else on this thing (concrete coring machine) is metric.
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Dec 17, 2022 01:26
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After 20+ years of running Wire EDM machines I finally made one of these things the internet likes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTLLL6p4JSE
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Dec 20, 2022 18:16
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SkunkDuster posted:I was running my 7x14 Chinese mini lathe with my head up my rear end and had a crash which took a tooth away from one of the M1 Z80 gears that control the feed when the half nuts are engaged. I've checked McMaster, Little Machine Shop, and Grizzly and can't find a replacement. The closest thing I've found is this pair of 90(20)/80 gears that replace the existing 80(20)/80 gears. This will slow down the feed rate a bit, and I'm perfectly fine with that, but they cost $40. If I can find a direct replacement for $5 or so, I'd rather go that route. Yo, I run all 3D printed change gears in my 7x14 Chinese mini lathe. They're totally fine for all my aluminum threading. I've crashed it, and the keyways strip out really nicely, saving the rest of the machine. It's a feature. Also, I can print literally any tooth count, I have unlocked arbitrary thread pitches.
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Dec 23, 2022 09:09
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A Proper Uppercut posted:After 20+ years of running Wire EDM machines I finally made one of these things the internet likes. I've never done wire edm. Is that made of two separate pieces? Also all the wired surfaces I've seen have this texture. Just sandblast off?
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Dec 23, 2022 16:39
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