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What do you think of the new international distribution deal? This poll is closed. |
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| Hate it |
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12 | 16.90% |
| REALLY hate it |
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16 | 22.54% |
| Hello, my name is Bob Chapek |
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43 | 60.56% |
| Total: | 71 votes | ||
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Barry Foster posted:It's this and it's the same deal with climate change too You’ll have to literally drag them into a solarpunk future, rather than a dystopia hellscape. Rosa has important things to say, but the writing for it feels so brittle. It’s been absolutely workshopped to death, and there’s no life or energy to it.
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Dec 11, 2022 10:26
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 10:09 |
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Rosa was needlessly walking on eggshells, which was a bit silly when just last series Twelve flat-out punched a racist in the face Although I guess then you'd need to fill the remaining 40 minutes of runtime with something else once the entire fam got a shot at punching the racist in the face...
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Dec 11, 2022 10:41
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Speaking of racism, this week's randomly chosen story was The Crusade. It's got Julian Glover straight from the RSC giving it the full stage works, which is good fun, but not much plot. It also features a lot of brown face (there are some non-white actors in the background, the first in the show's run I think, but the main roles are all white) which does not age well, but then again the written character of Saladin, and the other Muslims, is much more positive than you'd expect from modern media. So both much more racist and much less racist than today's standards, simultaneously
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Dec 11, 2022 11:31
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Open Source Idiom posted:Doesn't most Doctor Who kind of imply this? From humans oppressing the Ood, Cassandra in The End Of The World, extreme class societies on Kaldor, humans being locked in alien miniscopes so that other humans can gawk at them... prejudice, slavery, stratified societies etc. etc. seem to be things that most civilisations struggle with. Of course, yes. But those are forms of prejudice specific to their time. They're unpleasant, but they fit into the world those characters come from. The villain in Rosa, a guy from the giga diverse ultra future, being racist specifically against black humans, is like someone today being racist against the Goths.
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Dec 11, 2022 16:03
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Dabir posted:Of course, yes. But those are forms of prejudice specific to their time. They're unpleasant, but they fit into the world those characters come from. The villain in Rosa, a guy from the giga diverse ultra future, being racist specifically against black humans, is like someone today being racist against the Goths. Goths are fine. gently caress the visigoths, though.
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Dec 11, 2022 17:04
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Part of the problem with using Rosa Parks in a DW story is that it's a very specific cultural touchstone for African-Americans, one that I honestly don't feel a white British person is capable of handling properly, no matter how well-intentioned they might be, because they don't have the necessary cultural context. It'd be like if an American sci-fi show decided "hey let's do an episode featuring the Brixton riots" or something like that. Besides, Britain has plenty of its own issues with racism that DW could be addressing, like when Ace discovered the "NO COLOUREDS" sign in the window way back in "Remembrance of the Daleks". The show doesn't need to go across the pond to do a "racism is bad and here's a historical example of why" story.
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Dec 11, 2022 17:05
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Sydney Bottocks posted:Part of the problem with using Rosa Parks in a DE story is that it's a very specific cultural touchstone for African-Americans, one that I honestly don't feel a white British person is capable of handling properly, no matter how well-intentioned they might be, because they don't have the necessary cultural context. It'd be like if an American sci-fi show decided "hey let's do an episode featuring the Brixton riots" or something like that. To be fair to Chibnall, he seemed to know that. He got Malorie Blackman in to write at least some of Rosa.
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Dec 11, 2022 17:08
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Rosa was co-written by Malorie Blackman (the show's first black writer) and directed by Mark Tonderai (the show's first black director), so it wasn't just Chibnall trying to be detached but still preachy. Although the script almost certainly got its messages toned down by Chibnall and the higher-ups.
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Dec 11, 2022 17:21
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It's very good that Chibnall did that, though I still say it would have been better for him to focus on some important events in Britain's history when it comes to issues of race relations and racism on a British TV show. But I suspect that picking a prominent American figure like Rosa Parks might have been an easier "sell" in terms of getting the episode made, because she is a well-known figure internationally, and these days modern DW is very much a show that's made with an international viewing audience in mind.
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Dec 11, 2022 18:14
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It's been a while since I've seen the episode, but to my recollection the parts of Rosa that work are the ones that focus on the real Rosa Parks, civil rights activist who spent her life fighting segregation, and the parts that don't are focused on the mythology of Rosa Parks, the unassuming woman who got on a bus one day, spontaneously decided to stand up to segregation and changed the world.
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Dec 11, 2022 19:08
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"Look, fam, they named an asteroid after her, racism is solved!" Thank you, Chris.
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Dec 11, 2022 19:12
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Sydney Bottocks posted:It's very good that Chibnall did that, though I still say it would have been better for him to focus on some important events in Britain's history when it comes to issues of race relations and racism on a British TV show. But I suspect that picking a prominent American figure like Rosa Parks might have been an easier "sell" in terms of getting the episode made, because she is a well-known figure internationally, and these days modern DW is very much a show that's made with an international viewing audience in mind. Well into my 20's I knew more about Montgomery bus boycott than the Bristol bus boycott despite being from Bristol. If Who's going to do a civil rights episode it's going to be American-based, because that's safe ground that doesn't implicate Britain.
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Dec 11, 2022 19:20
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JoylessJester posted:If Who's going to do a civil rights episode it's going to be American-based, because that's safe ground that doesn't implicate Britain. Oh I agree, apart from some stuff during the Pertwee era and the aforementioned moment from Remembrance, DW isn't in any hurry to remind Britain of its own historical racial issues.
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Dec 11, 2022 19:29
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TinTower posted:Rosa was co-written by Malorie Blackman (the show's first black writer) and directed by Mark Tonderai (the show's first black director), so it wasn't just Chibnall trying to be detached but still preachy. Although the script almost certainly got its messages toned down by Chibnall and the higher-ups. One thing Chibnall did do well is increasing the diversity among the writing and directorial staff (and elsewhere) on the production side. Who has not had a lot of diversity on the writing/directing/production side of things. The only problem is that Chibnall did too much of the writing himself.
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Dec 11, 2022 19:40
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Sydney Bottocks posted:Besides, Britain has plenty of its own issues with racism that DW could be addressing, like when Ace discovered the "NO COLOUREDS" sign in the window way back in "Remembrance of the Daleks". The show doesn't need to go across the pond to do a "racism is bad and here's a historical example of why" story. That was a powerful moment and one of the best social commentaries in the show. It was far better to show things how they were, then try to shoehorn in "but actshually there COULD have been a black soldier in Queen Victoria's time" or "we'll have a middle ages village look like modern London with all ethnicities so it looks like now for the viewers" instead of talking about how things really were at the time. Can you imagine if they did Marco Polo now and had white people (not in yellowface, just actual white people) in ancient China and say "well there's lots of white people there in now in places like Hong Kong, so..." Maxwell Lord posted:That's the thing, we can't assume that racism will be gone in the future. We can hope it will be but if the last several years have taught me anything it's that irrational hatreds have a way of clinging on for dear life. And this I'm fine with, and it's important. Showing predjudice can and will still exist even in enlightented societies of the future is a good commentary on our present. It was that specific choice which was jarring. That said, the moment where they had to suck it up and let the bad part of history happen and Graham had to pretend to be racist for history to play out was suitably uncomfortable and moving. The Doctor knows sometimes you can't just kill Hitler (though you can put him in the cupboard).
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Dec 11, 2022 20:15
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Astroman posted:That was a powerful moment and one of the best social commentaries in the show. It was far better to show things how they were, then try to shoehorn in "but actshually there COULD have been a black soldier in Queen Victoria's time" or "we'll have a middle ages village look like modern London with all ethnicities so it looks like now for the viewers" instead of talking about how things really were at the time. 100% agreed. It's just as dangerous to pretend racism never actually existed as it is to pretend that it no longer exists. quote:Can you imagine if they did Marco Polo now and had white people (not in yellowface, just actual white people) in ancient China and say "well there's lots of white people there in now in places like Hong Kong, so..." I recently watched a video talking about Talons of Weng-Chiang where they not only pointed out some of the really egregious examples of casual racism (including one that was delivered, sadly, by The Doctor) present in that story, but called bullshit on having John Bennett playing Chang by pointing out that all the other Chinese characters in the story were played by actors who were of Chinese ancestry, so there was no plausible excuse to cast a white actor in the role of Chang.
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Dec 11, 2022 20:41
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https://twitter.com/TheCyberdevil/status/1601982041771458560?s=20&t=-kCQvte7I1LfUA41mn82qg
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Dec 11, 2022 23:01
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Davros1 posted:https://twitter.com/TheCyberdevil/status/1601982041771458560?s=20&t=-kCQvte7I1LfUA41mn82qg Oh man, very sad to hear that 
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Dec 11, 2022 23:08
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Davros1 posted:https://twitter.com/TheCyberdevil/status/1601982041771458560?s=20&t=-kCQvte7I1LfUA41mn82qg Oh, that's sad. I am fairly sure my favourite exchanges in Blake's 7 were all Boucher.
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Dec 11, 2022 23:51
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Rewatching The Face of Evil tonight in Chris Boucher's honor. RIP.
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Dec 12, 2022 02:32
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It's true then. They say the Evil One eats babies!
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Dec 12, 2022 06:28
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Finally got around to Legend of the Sea Devils. After the awfulness of the Timeless Children, the scattershot mess of Flux, and the surprising watchability of Eve of the Daleks it felt like a return to the mean for Chibnall: poorly plotted and edited but watchable in a mediocre way.
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Dec 12, 2022 12:44
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Ooof, that is a terrible John Hurt impression. https://twitter.com/bigfinish/status/1602596690220896256
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Dec 13, 2022 14:55
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Good to see the dead René Auberjonois still get work.
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Dec 13, 2022 15:22
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The_Doctor posted:Ooof, that is a terrible John Hurt impression. "I never wanted to gently caress." - The War Doctor (Probably)
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Dec 13, 2022 16:18
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if i were the Aussie guy who allegedly has those missing episodes I'de have built an elaborate series of traps you had to maneuver to retrieve them in a set time limit or else they're dropped into a pit of molten ore.
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Dec 14, 2022 01:15
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Rhyno posted:if i were the Aussie guy who allegedly has those missing episodes I'd.... ....get them to the BBC immediately, if not just straight up throw them online so the world has access to them and can watch them? Yes, agreed!
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Dec 14, 2022 04:45
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Jerusalem posted:....get them to the BBC immediately, if not just straight up throw them online so the world has access to them and can watch them? Yes, agreed! AFTER the elaborate series of traps.
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Dec 14, 2022 05:17
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I've been so disappointed in the Chibnall years that I've never worn my 13 cosplay or even her coat past that first Halloween, but today I'm having an aunt and uncle over for an early Christmas dinner and at least got to dust off those wonderful boots of hers. Here's my dilemma: do I just give up on the cosplay and move these boots into regular rotation or do I hold out hope that the bad feelings will subside and I'll be stoked to dress as 13 again someday?
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Dec 15, 2022 02:28
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Regardless, please keep the boots in regular rotation, the world needs to see those boots as much as possible. 
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Dec 15, 2022 02:37
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Yeah, those are great boots!
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Dec 15, 2022 02:53
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those boots are so rad that the Daleks have deemed that they must be exterminated!
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Dec 15, 2022 03:01
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Sold! Thank you.
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Dec 15, 2022 07:20
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I decided to watch some classic Who tonight and got it in my head to watch through Tom Baker's run again. But Robot sure is a weak way to kick off an amazing set of stories. I don't think it's my least favor Four serial, but it's close. At least now that I've cleared that hurdle, it's amazing story after amazing story for while.
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Dec 16, 2022 05:28
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Random Stranger posted:I decided to watch some classic Who tonight and got it in my head to watch through Tom Baker's run again. But Robot sure is a weak way to kick off an amazing set of stories. I don't think it's my least favor Four serial, but it's close. At least now that I've cleared that hurdle, it's amazing story after amazing story for while. Been doing that myself, after doing a watch through of Pertwee's run first. 
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Dec 16, 2022 05:34
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I actually dig Robot insomuch as it feels like a completely typical Jon Pertwee story... that happens to be starring Tom Baker! I don't know if that was intentional or not, but it's almost fitting in showcasing just how much the Doctor has changed while retaining enough familiar elements to allow an easing through from one era to the next.
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Dec 16, 2022 05:37
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Robot has a few things I like about it, it is a nice way to show off the new Doctor's personality by putting him in a similar situation to one his predecessor might have faced. And Sara Jane gets a few really great moments. The bit where they ask her if she'd like to see the Robot again and she's clearly terrified and says "Yes, I'd like that very much!" That's why we love her.
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Dec 16, 2022 05:46
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I'd say about 90% of my complaints of Robot are the janky special effects in episodes 3 & 4. The tank is just laughable.
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Dec 16, 2022 06:05
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I don't know what you could possibly mean. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv8ENxkDz9U
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Dec 16, 2022 11:11
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 10:09 |
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This week's random story was Invasion of the Dinosaurs which is probably the low point of special effects of that era - Robot looks like Star Wars in comparison. Pity, really, because there's a load of good stuff in the story. Too many cliffhangers are "someone being threatened by a dinosaur, with them not otherwise appearing in the episode" but that's a small crime compared to some (eg, the very next story has a cliffhanger - due to poorly timed scripts - where someone looks at a floor)
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Dec 16, 2022 12:20
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