[Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

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(Thread IKs: fart simpson)

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

crepeface posted:

https://thediplomat.com/2022/02/how-the-rise-of-islamic-state-khorasan-in-afghanistan-feeds-uyghur-militancy/

quote:
ISK perceives the Taliban as not radical enough and so has been trying to undermine the group�s legitimacy and governance. Indeed there are already signs that ISK has been trying to capitalize on the dire conditions in Afghanistan.
looking forward to NED funding for ISIS-K

ISK? VileRat has the last laugh

# ? Dec 15, 2022 11:00

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# ? May 27, 2024 11:37

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

issuing new correction about terrorist group isis: you do in fact gotta hand it to them

# ? Dec 15, 2022 11:28

genericnick: Dec 26, 2012

Cerebral Bore posted:

issuing new correction about terrorist group isis: you do in fact gotta hand it to them

ISIS-K is the mild one, the one you want to get.

# ? Dec 15, 2022 11:44

lollontee: Nov 4, 2014; Can't post for 10 years!

getting served a good good hand, on my jihadist deck

# ? Dec 15, 2022 14:25

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

Bilirubin posted:

not a terrible idea, but seems difficult to enforce practically

Websites that host and distribute models in the west already force people to agree to terms of service.

Plus most people don't bother generating that stuff on their personal hardware and do it all through a webpage application.

Obviously you can't force it on every bit of computer generated bit of art, but you can hit a lot of major points where they're produced and it will already go a long way to making a difference in how things work.

# ? Dec 15, 2022 15:43

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

So Al Jazeera interviewed this former African Union representative to the US regarding the current Biden meeting with African countries

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfLxnIqi4Uc

I didn't expect this woman straight up called on the US bullshit. Apparently Biden went into the meeting without setting any agenda with the africans. She said the Americans need to "show African respect and treat us as equal partners" and "need to call a time out now on a basketball game because the US is losing badly to China (and Russia) in the African continent."

Dammmn.

# ? Dec 15, 2022 16:30

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

too bad for the us that they've entered imperial decline while having literally brainwormed themselves into being incapable of actually doing real diplomacy

# ? Dec 15, 2022 16:33

eSports Chaebol: Feb 22, 2005; Yeah, actually, gamers in the house forever,

Cerebral Bore posted:

too bad for the us that they've entered imperial decline while having literally brainwormed themselves into being incapable of actually doing real diplomacy

engaging in real diplomacy, from a liberal perspective, is fundamentally immoral

# ? Dec 15, 2022 16:34

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

stephenthinkpad posted:

So Al Jazeera interviewed this former African Union representative to the US regarding the current Biden meeting with African countries

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfLxnIqi4Uc

I didn't expect this woman straight up called on the US bullshit. Apparently Biden went into the meeting without setting any agenda with the africans. She said the Americans need to "show African respect and treat us as equal partners" and "need to call a time out now on a basketball game because the US is losing badly to China (and Russia) in the African continent."

Dammmn.

lol they shut down a metro station and a dozen blocks for a glorified meet and greet because Biden was too brainless to set a purpose

# ? Dec 15, 2022 16:35

fart simpson: Jul 2, 2005; DEATH TO AMERICA

Cerebral Bore posted:

too bad for the us that they've entered imperial decline while having literally brainwormed themselves into being incapable of actually doing real diplomacy

i think america and europe, due to their long and storied history, may just not be able to have anything resembling a peer relationship with africa.

# ? Dec 15, 2022 16:36

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

Also Biden didn't even go to Africa, he made them all come to D.C. Hilarious.

# ? Dec 15, 2022 16:37

Bilirubin: Feb 16, 2014; The sanctioned action is to CHUG

Lostconfused posted:

Websites that host and distribute models in the west already force people to agree to terms of service.

Plus most people don't bother generating that stuff on their personal hardware and do it all through a webpage application.

Obviously you can't force it on every bit of computer generated bit of art, but you can hit a lot of major points where they're produced and it will already go a long way to making a difference in how things work.

Sounds like something an AI text generator might say

# ? Dec 15, 2022 16:40

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

boy it sure would be annoying if massachusetts, K, and new york were major thoroughfares

# ? Dec 15, 2022 16:41

mila kunis: Jun 10, 2011

dumb question but if the world is gonna split up into separate blocs that don't trade with each then i assume the chinese economy will have Serious Troubles, but also - is there a point where they don't have to even pretend to care about western IP anymore. i'm trying to understand that their gap when it comes to chips is IP related or infrastructure related - if they just stole ASML's tech could they have their own stuff running in about a year?

# ? Dec 15, 2022 19:02

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Cerebral Bore posted:

too bad for the us that they've entered imperial decline while having literally brainwormed themselves into being incapable of actually doing real diplomacy

Yeah, in their worldview it is self-evident what is good and bad and everyone should do good things because otherwise they are evil so you giving someone else something to get them to do something is anathema. For if they don't want to do good things on their own accord they are evil and you don't negotiate with evil.

The only diplomacy that remains is pomp and decorum.

# ? Dec 15, 2022 19:08

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

mila kunis posted:

dumb question but if the world is gonna split up into separate blocs that don't trade with each then i assume the chinese economy will have Serious Troubles, but also - is there a point where they don't have to even pretend to care about western IP anymore. i'm trying to understand that their gap when it comes to chips is IP related or infrastructure related - if they just stole ASML's tech could they have their own stuff running in about a year?

ASMLs tech relies on being able to produce very sophisticated machines which you then use to make machines which you use to make the machines that make chips. All of the details are trade secrets I'm quite sure and even if you managed to steal all of the theory it'd take you quite a while to actually get a production line going because minuscule differences in the environment are going to affect the end-product in that industry.

They also have like 4000+ suppliers which probably would be prohibited from doing business with the copier, so you'd have to copy that whole ecosystem.

Like, it's certainly not impossible to copy, but it is going to cost a significant amount of time.

Orange Devil has issued a correction as of 19:23 on Dec 15, 2022

# ? Dec 15, 2022 19:16

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

mila kunis posted:

dumb question but if the world is gonna split up into separate blocs that don't trade with each then i assume the chinese economy will have Serious Troubles, but also - is there a point where they don't have to even pretend to care about western IP anymore. i'm trying to understand that their gap when it comes to chips is IP related or infrastructure related - if they just stole ASML's tech could they have their own stuff running in about a year?

ASML (other capitalist countries) wants to do business with China. US at first (in 2020?) told ASML they can't sell equipment with over 25% US IP to China. So ASML did their magic and removed enough IP from their equipment that they could sell to China. Same thing for TSMC that's why the chip in the P40 phones were still made by TSMC. So now US just said new rules you loving can't sell high end poo poo to China. That's why the ASML CEO did that pissed off interview with a Dutch magazine yesterday. I am still waiting for a detail translation of it.

Here is the thing, we are know and understand the argument that globalization save money and lower costs for everybody. We don't know if it's possible for a market to reverse from globalization once you get there. US want their "buddies" not do business with China, but that's not China's stand. China still want to do business with all countries. So if you are a third party country you are asked by US to take their side but China ask you not take any side why would you take a side? If you are an incompleted country with US army station on your soil like Japan, yeah you are going to have to take the US side, but not for other countries. That's why right now there is no evidence of Korea actually take the US side in semiconductor business. Holland probably won't comply to the fullest either.

# ? Dec 15, 2022 19:29

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Reminder that there are US nuclear weapons in the Netherlands.

# ? Dec 15, 2022 19:32

TheBuilder: Jul 11, 2001

stephenthinkpad posted:

ASML (other capitalist countries) wants to do business with China. US at first (in 2020?) told ASML they can't sell equipment with over 25% US IP to China. So ASML did their magic and removed enough IP from their equipment that they could sell to China. Same thing for TSMC that's why the chip in the P40 phones were still made by TSMC. So now US just said new rules you loving can't sell high end poo poo to China. That's why the ASML CEO did that pissed off interview with a Dutch magazine yesterday. I am still waiting for a detail translation of it.

Here is the thing, we are know and understand the argument that globalization save money and lower costs for everybody. We don't know if it's possible for a market to reverse from globalization once you get there. US want their "buddies" not do business with China, but that's not China's stand. China still want to do business with all countries. So if you are a third party country you are asked by US to take their side but China ask you not take any side why would you take a side? If you are an incompleted country with US army station on your soil like Japan, yeah you are going to have to take the US side, but not for other countries. That's why right now there is no evidence of Korea actually take the US side in semiconductor business. Holland probably won't comply to the fullest either.

Wrong

# ? Dec 15, 2022 19:32

uno.mannschaft: Dec 23, 2006

TheBuilder posted:

Wrong

Theres like 20 different statements in that post. Are they all wrong or is there any particular you disagree with?

# ? Dec 15, 2022 19:36

Atrocious Joe: Sep 2, 2011

The US already has a law on the books authorizing an invasion of the Netherlands

It's to protect war criminals, so but still

# ? Dec 15, 2022 19:37

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

I mean US can use pull a Meng wanzhou to the ASML CEO, just bait him to visit Canada.

# ? Dec 15, 2022 19:41

Tankbuster: Oct 1, 2021

Orange Devil posted:

Reminder that there are US nuclear weapons in the Netherlands.

well someone has to keep them away from the dutch.

# ? Dec 15, 2022 19:57

paul_soccer12: Jan 5, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

crepeface posted:

https://thediplomat.com/2022/02/how-the-rise-of-islamic-state-khorasan-in-afghanistan-feeds-uyghur-militancy/

looking forward to NED funding for ISIS-K

Well they were created by MI-6 so there's zero chance US intelligence doesn't have their finger in that pie already

# ? Dec 15, 2022 20:50

eSports Chaebol: Feb 22, 2005; Yeah, actually, gamers in the house forever,

mila kunis posted:

dumb question but if the world is gonna split up into separate blocs that don't trade with each then i assume the chinese economy will have Serious Troubles, but also - is there a point where they don't have to even pretend to care about western IP anymore. i'm trying to understand that their gap when it comes to chips is IP related or infrastructure related - if they just stole ASML's tech could they have their own stuff running in about a year?

its very hard and will take serious capital investment and years of time and also it isnt Market Efficient at this point so the government will have to direct it

so yes it is 1. 100% impossible from a Western perspective and 2. 100% China is going to do it

# ? Dec 15, 2022 21:35

mila kunis: Jun 10, 2011

and whats the effect of china being 2nm or whatever behind in chips? phones with shittier battery time? how much worse would the products be, i assume they're still good enough for average consumers to use, espescially price conscious ones in poorer countries?

# ? Dec 15, 2022 23:22

thechosenone: Mar 21, 2009

If they just make up for it with good design and not fricking with the whole development process/not adding bloatware/keeping program efficiency tight they may even come out on top. By all means they want to close the gap, but it's not as essential as it once was.

I'd really like the US to pull their head out of the sand on this, because it doesn't even benefit the rich at this point.

# ? Dec 15, 2022 23:25

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

Trust me, your phone will run just fine on 10nm chip. Going from a 10nm phone to a 4nm phone probably gives you 50% more power efficiency. You just need to throw 20 more grams of lithium battery in your phone.

Nothing in the military runs on cutting edge fabbing process. Every chip in every weapons can be make by fabbing equipments not covered by the US sanctions.

stephenthinkpad has issued a correction as of 23:54 on Dec 15, 2022

# ? Dec 15, 2022 23:38

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

China will shrink. h/t @wiczipedia https://twitter.com/letahong/status/1603204816527937539?s=46&t=xzyRmy-JiJ-sr3lsumu6Nw

# ? Dec 16, 2022 00:18

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

My one+ has a battery that lasts for literally days and charges in like ten minutes idk what smaller chips would even do for me at this point

# ? Dec 16, 2022 00:23

Spergin Morlock: Aug 8, 2009

mawarannahr posted:

China will shrink. h/t @wiczipedia https://twitter.com/letahong/status/1603204816527937539?s=46&t=xzyRmy-JiJ-sr3lsumu6Nw

born in HK and grew up in Canberra lol

# ? Dec 16, 2022 00:26

Danann: Aug 4, 2013

https://twitter.com/thinking_panda/status/1603326281822920704

quote:

threadreaderapp.com
Thread by @thinking_panda on Thread Reader App
6�7 minutes

In 1999, how do Western media say about China?👇🏼
... ...
1. "At best, China is a second-rank middle power that has mastered the art of diplomatic theater."
2. "China is better understood as a theoretical power."
foreignaffairs.com/articles/asia/� Image

3. "In 1997 China accounted for 3.5 percent of world GNP (in 1997 constant dollars, the United States was 25.6 percent). China ranked seventh in the world, ahead of Brazil and behind Italy."
4. "Few economists trust modern Chinese economic data."

5. "Taking all these qualifications into account, China's economy is effectively in recession."
6. "Despite some positive changes during the past 20 years of reform, China's economy has clearly run into huge structural impediments. "

7. "In terms of international trade and investment, the story is much the same: Beijing is a seriously overrated power."
8. "Even a more trusting view of official FDI figures suggests that China does not much matter."

9. "The Chinese economy is clearly contracting, and FDI into China is dropping with it."
10. "China remains a classic case of hope over experience, reminiscent of de Gaulle's famous comment about Brazil: It has great potential, and always will."

11. "It does not take a statistical genius to see the sharp reality: China is at best a minor (as opposed to inconsequential) part of the global economy. "
😅

12. "In fact, the debacle demonstrated just how little impact Asia, except for Japan, has on the global economy. China -- a small part of a much less important part of the global system than is widely believed..."
🤣🤣🤣

13. "China is less like the Soviet Union in the 1950s than like Iraq in the 1990s: a regional threat to Western interests, not a global ideological rival."

14. "Such regional threats can be constrained. China, like Iraq, does not matter so much that the United States needs to suspend its normal strategies for dealing with unfriendly powers."

15. "China is in no position to matter much as a source of international political power."
16. "China does not even matter in terms of global culture."

17. "Measuring global political power is difficult, but China's influence and authority are clearly puny -- not merely compared to the dominant West, but also compared to Japan..."

18. "Nevertheless, until China is cut down to size in Western imaginations and treated more like a Brazil or an India, the West stands little chance of sustaining a coherent and long-term policy toward it."

Well, I have been deeply moved by the author of this article.
Thank him for his efforts to refute the so-called "China threat theory". 👍🏼

... ...
You can read the full text here👇🏼
archive.ph/cRFrg#selectio�

retrospective western takes from 1999 on china

# ? Dec 16, 2022 00:28

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

Hubbert posted:

thanks for making the rules-based order, america

now you have to follow them

lol lmao

lol

https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1602788367808319490?t=BFyVJeYNRfIrO8N2tzv1wA&s=19

# ? Dec 16, 2022 02:04

mila kunis: Jun 10, 2011

i love rules based international orders. wish we had one!

# ? Dec 16, 2022 02:16

Hubbert: Mar 25, 2007; At a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

crepeface posted:

lol

https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1602788367808319490?t=BFyVJeYNRfIrO8N2tzv1wA&s=19

no!!!!! >8[

# ? Dec 16, 2022 02:20

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

Danann posted:

https://twitter.com/thinking_panda/status/1603326281822920704

retrospective western takes from 1999 on china

Just the right blind spot

# ? Dec 16, 2022 02:37

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

The US only wants China make tee shirt and sneakers for walmart. 1 billion tee shirts for one US passenger jet. As long as you control the highend manufacturing you can overprice it as high as you want. Until one day China outsold US in EV cars and 5G equiptments and started making their own large passenger airplanes. Now globalization is bad and US wants to take the WTO ball and go home and start mercantilism 2.0 again.

# ? Dec 16, 2022 03:01

Centrist Committee: Aug 6, 2019

chyna also took the lead in both academic output and �quality� journal output this year, hey-o

# ? Dec 16, 2022 03:07

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

Danann posted:

https://twitter.com/thinking_panda/status/1603326281822920704

retrospective western takes from 1999 on china

I wanted to find out which failson thinktank has this guy moved on to since IISS and Foreign Affair, and found out he died of cancer in the same year. Can you imagine struggling in between the chemotherapy sections to write your last article, "Does China Matter?" in TYOTL 1999. Must be a good bar story in hell bar.

# ? Dec 16, 2022 03:16

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# ? May 27, 2024 11:37

Mantis42: Jul 26, 2010

Danann posted:

https://twitter.com/thinking_panda/status/1603326281822920704

retrospective western takes from 1999 on china

Reminds me of Churchill calling China "300 million pigtails"

# ? Dec 16, 2022 03:17

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

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