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If nothing else, "The current system might kill people and ruin their lives, but the transition to a different system would also have bad side effects, so really we might as well not do anything.", is a perfectly appropriate post for the MHA thread.
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Dec 16, 2022 10:33
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Kyte posted:There's mangaka who can do the weekly schedule like it's nothing. That is extremely abnormal, especially without being able to hire assistants (and even with those people, I really doubt it's "like it's nothing"). While there might be rare exceptions (due to art style, type of manga, and/or having a good set of assistants), a full chapter a week is a huge amount of work.
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Dec 16, 2022 10:48
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Kanos posted:Even beyond the raw humanitarian concern of "maybe someone killing themselves to make an entertainment product for people to consume isn't good", a less frequent schedule has other effects, like being able to put more time into the art and story planning because you're not constantly fumbling to push content as fast as possible. As an example that you reference yourself, Miura's Berserk has some of the most beautiful art ever committed to the pages of a manga specifically because he had a lot of time to work with. I definitely think a lot about the insane difference in detail with Vinland Saga once it switched from weekly to monthly: 
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Dec 16, 2022 12:48
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Ytlaya posted:That is extremely abnormal, especially without being able to hire assistants (and even with those people, I really doubt it's "like it's nothing"). While there might be rare exceptions (due to art style, type of manga, and/or having a good set of assistants), a full chapter a week is a huge amount of work. Exactly this. The "that might gently caress that guy up, but i'm built different" attitude is absolutely gross as hell. I'm sure there's people who can handle 100 hour per week crunch scheduling at a video game studio or who can handle working 18 hour shifts and pissing in bottles at Amazon warehouses "like it's nothing"(hint: it's not like it's nothing), but by accepting those kinds of working conditions for some, a profit-driven industry will automatically begin to filter out people who can't handle that kind of workload in the name of making more money, which then forces people who can't handle those types of schedules as well to try to maintain them in order to get those kinds of jobs. Some dude who claims they can put out a quality manga chapter every single week because he's built different is more likely to be picked up and given a run than someone who asks for more time, because Jump management wants to make more money and a hit manga with a chapter every week is likely more money and issues sold than a hit manga than a chapter every two weeks or every month. This normalizes that type of expectation until it becomes the de facto standard in the industry culture. Kanos fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Dec 16, 2022 |
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Dec 16, 2022 13:22
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Kyte posted:Togashi is a terrible example. The industry didn't do this to him. It was his own dumbass young self ingraining terrible postural habits that would've hit no matter what so long as he kept drawing, whether for work or for hobby.
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Dec 16, 2022 14:08
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This does make you wonder which is the more unhealthy work culture; Japanese/Asia in general or American/Western in general. I think there are probably arguments to be made for both sides, or perhaps one could say they are equally hosed up but in different ways.
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Dec 16, 2022 14:19
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America “wins” that contest thanks to our healthcare industry alone but all creative industries tend to self-calibrate for maximum exploitation with minimal reward, manga is just one of the most egregious
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Dec 16, 2022 14:32
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You could argue that Manga work culture is what specifically kills people while in America it's mostly the lack of any kind of safety net.
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Dec 16, 2022 14:33
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https://twitter.com/PlayStation/status/1603721602557833216?t=lvmNkaXUT9qqPG42nbSksg&s=19
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Dec 16, 2022 15:55
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My Hero Academia is saved.
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Dec 16, 2022 16:16
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GimmickMan posted:If nothing else, "The current system might kill people and ruin their lives, but the transition to a different system would also have bad side effects, so really we might as well not do anything.", is a perfectly appropriate post for the MHA thread. Oh this is the MHA thread? I thought this was a defence of capitalism.
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Dec 16, 2022 16:38
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It is impossible to hold the two diametrically opposing viewpoints that the Shonen Jump workflow is a nightmare hellworld and that you also shouldn’t draw laying down on your stomach It can’t be done
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Dec 16, 2022 16:44
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Oda should stop smoking but more importantly Shonen Jump should stop being hell. Also their post was more "nevermind SJ being hell, look at this guys posture" which is bullshit.
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Dec 16, 2022 17:08
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TheKingofSprings posted:It is impossible to hold the two diametrically opposing viewpoints that the Shonen Jump workflow is a nightmare hellworld and that you also shouldn’t draw laying down on your stomach I mean you'd have a point if the person didn't say "Togashi did that to himself. You can't blame the industry for his condition" in direct response to "Here's some authors that have talked about how absolutely horrible the industry is to authors." Like yeah his routine also hurt him, but that doesn't erase the damage management and the industry and how it's built does to authors. That's what people are responding are saying, not that it's impossible for that poo poo to have affected him. I get you want to be the smug above the argument smart person here but you gotta actually follow the argument for that to work. Otherwise you just look like a dunce.
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Dec 16, 2022 17:08
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I said he was a bad example, not that Jump's schedules aren't grueling. But they do give breaks, and Horikoshi could take one if he wanted. The key phrase here is if he wanted.
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Dec 16, 2022 17:16
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the weekly schedule is passive encouragement for overwork. if you take breaks, you’re an aberration. it’s noticeable in a bad way it’s the same principle used for abusive “unlimited PTO” policies
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Dec 16, 2022 17:25
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The ultimate problem, as it always is, is Capitalism. Perhaps someone should write a manga about punching it.
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Dec 16, 2022 18:35
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Lt. Lizard posted:My Hero Academia is saved. 
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Dec 16, 2022 19:40
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Where's the straw hat
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Dec 16, 2022 20:02
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One for All baby
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Dec 16, 2022 22:06
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Kyte posted:I said he was a bad example, not that Jump's schedules aren't grueling. It's this: Oxxidation posted:the weekly schedule is passive encouragement for overwork. if you take breaks, you’re an aberration. it’s noticeable in a bad way If you allow abusive scheduling and worker policies to become the norm, even if you technically allow people ways to circumvent that abuse, it becomes expected that they will not. This is a problem in all sorts of lines of work - the company technically can't fire you for using your PTO, or not continuing to work for an hour after punching out, or for taking your sick days, but it gets noticed and can adversely affect how you are perceived by management and your colleagues and it can also affect things like promotions, raises, and business opportunities. This is a problem in many countries, but it's such an especially pernicious issue in Japan in particular that the Japanese government felt the need to invent and push a new monthly holiday to try to encourage employees to actually take more time off work, and even that has met with limited success.
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Dec 16, 2022 22:29
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So as if to emphasize how badly Hori's work conditions have gotten, the new chapter this week is only 9 pages long. Also the newest popularity polls are in.
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Dec 21, 2022 12:35
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At this rate it'll be another year or two before he finishes. I wish he was allowed to just like, take a month off and give himself a break until he's ready to work again.
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Dec 21, 2022 12:44
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Delphisage posted:So as if to emphasize how badly Hori's work conditions have gotten, the new chapter this week is only 9 pages long. Didn't really seem like anything happened this chapter, either. Toga's still mad that no one wants to be stabbed by her, AFO is talking poo poo and wants to help Shiggy, Dabi is inexplicably still alive and whining about how he has to kill more people to spit in his dad's face, etc. I wonder if Hori needs a month break at this point just to relax, because it seems like he's pretty burned out.
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Dec 21, 2022 13:31
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He did a big high detail full color spread for the likely final character poll, so that's part of it.
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Dec 21, 2022 14:44
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Also lol at Mineta getting 69 votes
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Dec 21, 2022 15:53
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Fabricated posted:He did a big high detail full color spread for the likely final character poll, so that's part of it. Does Shonen Jump make them draw the marketing assets too???  it's like they're designed to kill mangaka.
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Dec 21, 2022 16:45
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TheHan posted:Does Shonen Jump make them draw the marketing assets too??? Thinking about it, I think so actually.
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Dec 21, 2022 17:14
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I hope the character poll image of Bakugao is him lying there with his heart blown out like in that parody Mirko image.
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Dec 21, 2022 17:17
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TheHan posted:Does Shonen Jump make them draw the marketing assets too??? Sometimes they make them draw the marketing assets for other series, even!
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Dec 22, 2022 08:53
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https://onepiecechapters.com/chapters/5577/my-hero-academia-chapter-376 Yeah uh, nothing really happened this chapter. Guess I'm glad they remembered Jiro and Tokoyami are also there at least.
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Dec 23, 2022 12:19
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Rhonne posted:https://onepiecechapters.com/chapters/5577/my-hero-academia-chapter-376 yeah only having 9 pages will do that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_nPp64OrBc
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Dec 23, 2022 12:35
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How I felt while reading Vigs this time last year.
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Dec 23, 2022 12:40
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Vigilantes could still be running right now and I'd probably still be enjoying it
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Dec 23, 2022 12:41
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Hawks: Endeavor-san! We need you to beat the poo poo outta your kids like never before! Endeavor: I thought you'd never ask 
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Dec 23, 2022 16:57
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Arist posted:Vigilantes could still be running right now and I'd probably still be enjoying it Nah I'm glad that it ended. The last arc dragged a little, but it ended well. And I would rather something end before I get exhausted with it than what's happening with this.
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Dec 23, 2022 17:05
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I just need another epilogue chapter where Koichi goes home and kisses his girlfriend.
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Dec 23, 2022 17:06
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Don't you worry guys, Koichi is going to show up any moment now with backup from the international heroes and also Gentle and La Brava to help turn the tide. Any moment now!
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Dec 23, 2022 17:16
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AFO sheepishly looking down after Hawks pointed out endeavor beat his rear end was fun, at least
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Dec 23, 2022 18:01
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Arist posted:Vigilantes could still be running right now and I'd probably still be enjoying it Six and Koichi have each pulled out their 47th Quirk evolution and have achieved low orbit combat height (Koichi by flying, Six by growing bigger) Three more chapters and Six will probably try to smash Koichi with the moon And then Tiger Bunny shows up
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Dec 23, 2022 18:13
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